clv0116 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Well I HAD to take it there; Donna used up veejayjay. At least yours make sense, vjj? Really? How many j's are in vagina anyway? No, not Jay Leno. Link to post Share on other sites
redtail Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Well I HAD to take it there; Donna used up veejayjay. A conversation about vagina names just might make this a useful thread! Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Congrats - you've made it to the hump: Thanks, "the hump" is good! I think I like being there!!!:bunny: Link to post Share on other sites
redtail Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 ... Why should men have to give more? I don't remember the exact situation of what my dad did for my mother at the time, but before he died I was sitting with him when my mother said to him; "You're always so good to me." And she walked away leaving us the two of us there. My dad looked over after she left the room and told me, "the best part of a good marriage, is a poor memory". Counting what you have is always more fulfilling than pointing out and lamenting over what you don't have. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 How so? Like I said men risk all the rejection, pay all the bells, provide, do the hard labor, give those expensive engagement gifts and protect/nurture women more than vice versa. Or am I wrong? How is you relationship equal?[/QUOTE] Go back a couple of pages - you'll see where I define "equality" as it applies to my marriage. Men do NOT risk ALL the rejection, my husband does NOT pay all the bills (we split them), I provide, do my share of the hard labor (hard core example for you, NTLS - I re-roofed our storage shed - the one in which HIS stuff is stored), and protect & nurture him & our marriage. I show him affection without his having to ask, I give freely of massages & footrubs (especially since I HATE having my feet rubbed), and otherwise "conform" to what you think women don't do enough of (sorry to end a sentence with a dangling preposition). Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I'm a man. i can do it. One way I have heard women can give men multiple orgasms is through tantra. http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=166883 Well, NTLS, that should prove that not ALL men are alike, just as not ALL women are alike as well. Link to post Share on other sites
redtail Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 ... How is you relationship equal? You can not relate in your current state of mind, not by the way you choose to measure equality. I have achieved equality with my wife and it sounds like HsMomma has equality for her marriage. Not everybody is good at everything, maybe this is something you just won't ever get. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 You can not relate in your current state of mind, not by the way you choose to measure equality. I have achieved equality with my wife and it sounds like HsMomma has equality for her marriage. Not everybody is good at everything, maybe this is something you just won't ever get. Thank you, redtail - it's been feeling rather like bashing my poor little "dumb & helpless dependent" head against a wall! Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 ha, after reading the first post I knew the next 8 pages would consist of little to no debate of the actual points raised, but instead of the womenfolk of the Parish attacking the OP as a misogynist, leaving emoticon-heavy 'that was hilarious' type comments, and much female bonding as possible as they lined up to quote each other's humorous attacks and irrelevant jokes. They might as well post '#LA LA LA WE CAN'T HEAR YOU!#' Like a couple of people have mentioned, men simply cannot be honest about any unfairness they feel exists within male-female dynamics without this kind of reaction, while women remain free and are actively encouraged to complain about anything men ever do. They won't give up their victims-who-can-act-as-selfishly-as-they-please privileges without a fight, the little flowers. Any time men speak honestly about how we feel and what we go through in relationships we are called misogynists. Women are always getting at us for being emotionally closed up but when we do open up they don't like what they hear. Link to post Share on other sites
redtail Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Are you suggesting your mom gave more? I'm suggesting that they didn't keep score. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 What about the expensive engagement gifts women get? Look I believe you. But if all this is true you are among one of the best women. And its always the good women who never realize that most women are not like them. Anyways good for you. your husband is a lucky man. Thank you, NTLS, but I don't believe I'm the exception - I believe I'm much more the norm. Just about every woman I know (with one notable exception) does the same as I listed. Link to post Share on other sites
girl68 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 -Men have the burden of asking women out. Women don't have to deal with rejection. Yeah we do, it's called not ever getting hit on... ever. That's the worst kind of rejection, you're not even given a chance. -Men are questioned by her male relatives. Doesn't apply to women. You're right, we're instantly and constantly judged on our capabilities to cook, clean and bear children for the rest of our lived. All you have to do is get interviewed- ONCE. Big WHOOP. -Men are instantly protective to female crying. Male crying invites women to make fun of men. Yes, because all females break out in hysterical laughing at the mear sight of a man crying. EGH, wrong. -Men are more affectionate. During cuddling men hold women and give them a safe protected feeling, a feeling which no man ever got from a woman except his mother. Bull-bejesus-shiet. If Men are "more" affectionate, why then do so many women complain about not getting affection. Odd isn't it? -Men have to put women's needs first HUH? Since when? Since you dated spoiled little brat number 1 2 and 3? -All the decision making responsbility falls on the man but he still needs to put her first. Uhh yeah right- this is a load of toad shiet you've pulled out you a-es-es. -Men's sacrfices are harder and men make more sacrfices. Right because the day I give you your offspring my vagina will stretch watermelon wide... and then somehow magically I must re-do my vagina to feel tight again. Oh wait, and shed off the 15lbs I gained growing your offspring. Oh yeah, then for the next 18years I shall raise said offspring. Nope, no sacrifices made by us, women! -Women are allowed to hit men. We are? Sweet! -Women treat men like subpar humans and demand chivalry. This one is the best! MEN TREAT WOMEN LIKE OBJECTS AND DEMAND UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS! (See now, my statement is false, yours is just hilariously untrue!) -During sex men do most of the work. You bed lazy women. -Foreplay is more about the woman. Yeah because if you know anything about women you realize our vaginas don't get big and hard, the get wet from natural methods- FOOL, that takes time- FOOL. Complain some more? Start bedding men. You'll be sure to be impressed by how fast he shall be aroused, and how very NOT lazy he will be giving you the pounding of your life. -The average woman does not bring her man to multiple orgasms. Given the last 3 comments, neither do you. -Men intiate sex more. False. Because given your last 4 comments, I'd assume sex with you isn't good enough to crave, never mind initiate! -Men sexually desire women more han vice versa. Hence being treated like an object. -Men give more foot rubs and massages than they take. Women give 5times more blowjobs then head recieved the other way. -Men give more security than they take. Since your head over heels in steryotyping here you go: women cook your food, clean your house, and do your laundry. So yeah, provide me with so damn security you better! -Women accidentally hurt men in the testicles and laugh. A man accidentally elbowing a woman's breasts wouln't laugh. Stupid point. -Men care for all women, women care for a few men if that. Stupid point. -Men have to drive on vacations and give up sleep. Stupid point. -Holidays are about her. Yeah when you're dating spoiled princess 1, 2 and 3. -Women are human beings, men are human doings.(warren farrell) Stupid point -She has no responsbility to him after the marriage has broken up. HELLO MISTER BITTER! -Women marry up. The man is ALWAYS ALWAYS the better half. :laugh: LOL OMG.... LOL.... FOOL. -Women are not funny or have no real desire to make men laugh or smile. Because when a women encounters a man such as yourself... No, there's no desire to make you laugh. I hope this post pisses you off. But for a good man, I live to make my dearest laugh. But you, not a hope for even a smirk. -The dirty housework as well as hard labor is his. HAHAHAHAHAHA No comment. -Men have to pay on dates and drive. Real women treat their real man very well and take him out. But you, I wouldn't even consider such an idea. -Men have to protect women. This is the MOST unfair one. WOMEN HAVE TO BEAR CHILDREN! THE MOST unfair! -Men are easier to deal with. Men are also dogs. -Women are more needy. Men are self sufficent. Men can do more things than women. Can you hem your own pants? Point proven. -Women withold sex. I too would withhold sex from a lazy, selfish lover such as yourself. -Women are more selective so end up marrying up. Men don't know how to "do better" -Men are more loyal and faithful. Men don't get hit on as much etc. Right, and men don't cheat, and leave for younger, more beautiful women. *ROLLS EYES* -Men have less sex partners. THE BEST ONE RIGHT HERE... :D:) LOL (if you're comparing to HOOKERS!) -Men are more nurtruing. Women share more problems, take more emotional support and are emotionally weaker. men comofort the woman during a mutual crisis. The man is the stable emotional rock not vice versa. Better not CRY 'cause I'm going to LAUGH IN YOUR FACE! -Men have to provide for women and miss out on time with their kids. Yeah while she's getting a free ride at home. -Men have to propose. Only women get engagement gifts. Most men, want this reponsibility. But you, I can see why you don't. -Women are passive and receptive and don't have to do much. Nope, we are the laziest creatures to ever grace the face of the earth. Don't forget birthing a watermelon- painless, abolutely painless. -Women take other women's sides first. As oppsed to siding with you, and a post like this? Yeah, you WOULD notice such a thing. -Love doesn't inspire women to do great things. For men, who love us as equals, yes these women do. -Men sleep on the unsafe side of the bed. Which side is that? -Women are never the ones to pursue men. Have you EVER heard of a relationship where the woman did more of the pursuing than he did? Yes, I have have 2 sucessful relationship where I was the one pursuing. And if you're wondering why it doesn't happen for you... perhaps you rub off like you do on this post. Not worth the time. -Men must make the first kiss and say "I love you" first. So many things are unreciprocated by women. Wrong again! -Women get a feeling of safety when out with a man. Said it already. -Most men would give up their life for a woman. There is an unwritten rule that says men must bear 100% (and not 50%) of the burden, stress and danger. Unwritten in your head. -Women don't comepete for men and get aggressive over men. They don't physically fight over them. "CHICK FIGHT" -Men earn more money , women spend more money I would try to spend all your money too! -Forget where I read this but apparently women are (yes MORE) consideration and care than men. Damn right. -Also I read women fall in love faster but men fall in love harder. So once again men love harder. Falling in love faster shows how fickle a woman's love is. The only common thing is you. You make women like this, you wrote all thse rules, you speak so negatively. Not women, the problem lies not in gender, the problem is you, and you alone. Enjoy, OP. Link to post Share on other sites
Thaddeus Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Thank you, NTLS, but I don't believe I'm the exception - I believe I'm much more the norm.Actually, HS, I sincerely believe that you are the exception. And props to you for it! Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Also when I said that forplay is not equal I was not referring to the fact that some men don't want to do it. Let's say foreplay is 20 minutes. Wouldn't 15 be spent on pleasuring the woman's body? It would never be 10 for each? Anyways do some women then give more oral sex than they recieve? It seems even in the movies women take more pleasure. I am asking not saying this is what it is. Ok, I'm going to turn this around on you for a moment by asking a question... As a man who can have multiple orgasms, approximately how long does it take your body to get ready for sex? (I know sometimes it seems as if all my H has to do is breathe & he's ready) How long does it take a woman's BODY to get ready for sex? Much longer, I assure you, regardless of age. Now, having asked that - do you WANT to make love to a woman whose body isn't ready when yours is? Link to post Share on other sites
Chubbi Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 and I told you there are no absolutes. There are gray areas. I said you have good points because I don't want to dismiss your entire argument. Masculinity and what it looks like can destroy boys (and girls) who have to live up to that incredibly high standard- have money, can pay for your women's every needs, got the big house, big cars, big muscles, charm, flashy white teeth, bare chest, long penises, have incredible strength... People focus less on what media tells boys what a man should look like but it does, it's there, and it's just as selective. But, still your anger is misguided- are women really your enemies here? Your post is extremely ego-centric, if you think your relationships with women is indicative of other people's relationships. How can we measure which gender suffers the most? Who will decide that- an intersex individual lol for less bias? Who will decide what is suffering? How can I tell you you are right when I don't know who you are talking about? I told you- it changes, but generally speaking, statistics show that women are discrimminated against and killed more often than men. I am sure you don't want to give out personal information, but what I meant was that where you come from can change your experiences and perspective on male female relationships. I'm sorry, my post was confusing as my writing always is messed up. But, let's say that men get the worst end of the bargain in your hometown. What then? What will you do about it? Will you make your next g/f cook, clean, go to war, protect you from gang-bangers, pay for your bills? It wouldn't matter to her- she probably already does all of that: In 2003, a report showed that middle-class and lower women in USA do the double-day: they go to work and come home, cook, clean and take care of their kids. Women are starting to make more money than their spouses. Women have a higher enrollment in college. Single motherhood is on the rise. So, men have to go to war? Anthropologists say that for procreation purposes men are expendable. It's difficult, i don't know if it's possible, to replicate incubating a baby for nine months that women are built to do for reproduction. But, a few men can easily build an entire city with their sperm. If you have one woman and thousands of men, you will generally only get one baby every nine months. The process of reproduction will be slow and extremely painful for that one woman- she will probably die after too many childbirths. You didn't make the rules for male-female relationships as men have done in the past, so why should you suffer? I don't know; that's a philosophical question. You can't control the past. Relationships are hard work. If men have been getting the shaft, this is a new occurence, lemme tell you. What is funny is that women have been getting the shaft, worldwide for almost all of history. Now, any new gains with the world's best scapegoat- feminism- and suddenly men use that as a reason to insult and degrade the best of women. In your angry post, some of your points are just rude and spiteful and untrue. Others of them I can see, like going to war, which I explained. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Actually, HS, I sincerely believe that you are the exception. And props to you for it! Thaddeus - you only think that 'cause you & I did so well raising our "boy"!! Link to post Share on other sites
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Sorry to hear that, Untouchable - I'm sure I've "been around" as long as you have, if not longer (I'm an "old" woman, now! ) and I find that it works out just beautifully. We've been at it 11 years & so far, we're doing just fine with treating each other as equals. I'm sorry those you've met in life don't live up to treating one another as they'd like to be treated - that's just plain sad. I doubt your relationship is 100% equal. I have found that it works best when the effort into the relationship is equal. All other areas equality is unimportant. I think that striving for equality in all parts of a relationship is Quixotic. Instead focus on what makes each of you strong. If your man is good at making hard decisions or handling money, let him do it. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I doubt your relationship is 100% equal. I have found that it works best when the effort into the relationship is equal. All other areas equality is unimportant. I think that striving for equality in all parts of a relationship is Quixotic. Instead focus on what makes each of you strong. If your man is good at making hard decisions or handling money, let him do it. Obviously, you are not responding to my later posts outlining what I believe "equality" to be. The EFFORT was exactly what I was talking about. And, just FYI, I don't let my husband do anything & by the same token, he doesn't let me. Link to post Share on other sites
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Also when I said that forplay is not equal I was not referring to the fact that some men don't want to do it. Let's say foreplay is 20 minutes. Wouldn't 15 be spent on pleasuring the woman's body? It would never be 10 for each? Anyways do some women then give more oral sex than they recieve? It seems even in the movies women take more pleasure. I am asking not saying this is what it is. Why are you so bitter? What experiences with women have caused you to be so angry with the entire gender? There are some gender issues in our society that I do not believe are fair, but I'm not going to blame women for that. Neither am I going to start dating men! So, where are your issues coming from? Link to post Share on other sites
The Collector Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Why are you so bitter? Would a woman complaining that her husband never gave her head but she gave him bjs' be bitter? Or justified in wanting fairness? Some of the original list is trivial, but I think different (gendered) people read different versions of the same post. Some evidently only see criticism and hate, and get quite emotional in response. But most men reading this would agree with much of it, some of the inequities are annoying, some are important, some are just amusingly familiar, and like the safe side of the bed, slightly absurd. Some of these issues are genetically hard-wired in, and we are going to find it impossible to change unless we evolve into a different species. But others are societal issues, that should be able to be addressed without writing off the complaints as baseless or the things only a bitter woman-hater might agree with. Also, I really don't know which gender gives or gets the most mouthwork, but I do think it's unfair that women get to have multiple orgasms, which come (ha) in at least a couple of varieties apparently. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Would a woman complaining that her husband never gave her head but she gave him bjs' be bitter? Or justified in wanting fairness? Some of the original list is trivial, but I think different (gendered) people read different versions of the same post. Some evidently only see criticism and hate, and get quite emotional in response. But most men reading this would agree with much of it, some of the inequities are annoying, some are important, some are just amusingly familiar, and like the safe side of the bed, slightly absurd. Some of these issues are genetically hard-wired in, and we are going to find it impossible to change unless we evolve into a different species. But others are societal issues, that should be able to be addressed without writing off the complaints as baseless or the things only a bitter woman-hater might agree with. Also, I really don't know which gender gives or gets the most mouthwork, but I do think it's unfair that women get to have multiple orgasms, which come (ha) in at least a couple of varieties apparently.[/QUOTE] Then I suggest you take this up with God, the universe, fate or whomever you believe unfairly gave us this advantage - women don't choose whether they can have multiple o's - it's either there or it ain't! Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Would a woman complaining that her husband never gave her head but she gave him bjs' be bitter? Or justified in wanting fairness? Some of the original list is trivial, but I think different (gendered) people read different versions of the same post. Some evidently only see criticism and hate, and get quite emotional in response. But most men reading this would agree with much of it, some of the inequities are annoying, some are important, some are just amusingly familiar, and like the safe side of the bed, slightly absurd. And yet attempts to have a rational discussion are drowned out by shrill, distinctly female, voices. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 And yet attempts to have a rational discussion are drowned out by shrill, distinctly female, voices. Sorry, clv...I'm SO trying to hear you over my shrill, distinctly female voice!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Sorry, clv...I'm SO trying to hear you over my shrill, distinctly female voice!!!! I know you feel clever, but I don't see you addressing any of the real issues the OP raised. Why are men the ones sent to die in war? Why are women so poorly represented in dangerous jobs? Why do men still typically support the brunt of their families financial needs? Like it or not, there are legitimate issues raised by the cited work. Mocking those issues won't make them less real. Link to post Share on other sites
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Obviously, you are not responding to my later posts outlining what I believe "equality" to be. The EFFORT was exactly what I was talking about. And, just FYI, I don't let my husband do anything & by the same token, he doesn't let me. Sorry, I didn't read that part. I've been in enough relationships to know that what I am only to do what is allowed. Would a woman complaining that her husband never gave her head but she gave him bjs' be bitter? Or justified in wanting fairness? Some of the original list is trivial, but I think different (gendered) people read different versions of the same post. Some evidently only see criticism and hate, and get quite emotional in response. But most men reading this would agree with much of it, some of the inequities are annoying, some are important, some are just amusingly familiar, and like the safe side of the bed, slightly absurd. Some of these issues are genetically hard-wired in, and we are going to find it impossible to change unless we evolve into a different species. But others are societal issues, that should be able to be addressed without writing off the complaints as baseless or the things only a bitter woman-hater might agree with. Also, I really don't know which gender gives or gets the most mouthwork, but I do think it's unfair that women get to have multiple orgasms, which come (ha) in at least a couple of varieties apparently. I'm kind of happy with the way my body works. If your not.... I think there is a surgery to fix that. Link to post Share on other sites
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