Island Girl Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 There really has never been a relationship where a woman gave just as much or even MORE. Or am i wrong here? You're wrong. Now. Isn't that better? :bunny: Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Well its not like men sit back during this time. Men do support women. I don't think caring for children counts as giving something. Does women changing diapers and men teaching their children to read count as something given to one parent from another? Whoa! The bolded part is exactly why you are cold and lonely. Doesn't count! If you don't have children, maybe. But once they are born, THE MAN had better step in and take part in all the care they require. You are in need of a reality check. Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Well its not like men sit back during this time. Men do support women. I don't think caring for children counts as giving something. Does women changing diapers and men teaching their children to read count as something given to one parent from another? Well, if you ever get married, let's hope it's your wife that teaches your kids how to write:rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky_One Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I don't intend to outline my relationship here in a misguided attempt to "prove" to you that I give and I take at a fairly equal ratio to my BF's giving and his taking. You will not believe it, no matter what I say. But I can tell you this. He is a highly intelligent, upper tier executive of a company of approximately 3000 employees in a competitive and scientific industry, and he thanks me every day for what I do for him. He's no dummy, and he's had a full share of healthy adult relationships, and the fact that he can see that I give and take as much as he gives and takes means a whole lot more to me than some woman-hating stranger's opinion, who doesn't have the life experience to realize what love and caring truly are. Link to post Share on other sites
Chubbi Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The above posters are correct- generalizing tends to lead to less than factual evidence. But, what is truth? Alas, the absolutes elude the best of us. However, in order to figure out whether you are right or wrong in your generalizations, we have to know the parameters of the relationships between men and women of which you speak. This depends on: 1.) What country are the men and women from? This can drastically change your evidence of who gets what out of a relationship. This question goes along with: what religion do they follow, what culture do they have. Orthodox Hasidic Jewish women cut off their hair before their wedding. 2.) You may not have considered this but, after you tell us the country, what is there socioeconomic level? Bluntly, stuff changes when you talk about people from upper-middle class to working class 3.)What is their educational achievement? 4.) Basic information about the couple: Are they heteronormative? Are they heterosexuals? What race do they comprise? You may not think this is important but race could change how a couple interacts if for example, the female is Asian and the male is black. The point is, we don't know who YOU are, main poster. Therefore, we don't know where YOU are coming from. While a middle-class, atheist Canadian man could say that women seem to get the better deal, a low-income Mexican, Catholic wife of a family will probably disagree. As the above posters pointed out, you cannot generalize, nor can you take your own (unfortunate, I think) experiences with women and think they are the norm. Here is it bluntly: the norm is that women do more work than men in relationships. They take the larger burden and are teased, taunted, and punished because of their roles as care-takers. Women are more likely than men to be abused/killed by their intimate partner. All of your points aren't wrong though. -Men are supposed to be protective. But, it was men who set up this image of themselves as macho. Cartoons and movies were first made by men. -Men do die when they go to war. In China, a long time ago, when a woman would try to go to war, it was seen as a disgrace- she would be killed. In USA too. -Women do get foot massages. But, it was a man who made up the words "foot fetish." Which gender do you think thought it nice for Chinese women to bind and break their feet back in the day for tiny, cute shoes? Sorry, I forgot your other points. The problem is that men orignally set up a system that kept them dominant. That system back-fired as soon as women realized themselves capable of equal work and equal pay. Your anger is misguided though. It's not women, you should be angry at, it's your forefathers. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 **** YOU (10 chars) Whoa. Such demonstration of intelligence, wit and class. *swoons* Link to post Share on other sites
Island Girl Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Exactly how? I seem to recall you saying he is even raising someone else's kid. Exactly what can a woman give in return? Amazing! You seem to have often stated within his thread that men sharing in the care giving of children is some kind of burden they aren't repaid for (women owing that payment of course). And here you mention raising a child again (this time with an attempt at a below the belt hit at someone with a healthy happy relationship - the dynamics of which you can't understand and refuse to acknowledge). To a lot of people (both men and women) it makes no difference at all who the biological parent is. They want the child and love him/her/them as their own. Just as those parents who seek children through adoption the reward of having a child to love, care for, and provide for IS the reward or "payment". The pride coming from having a family which includes children and eventually their children and so on is plenty reward for them. You talk as though children are a scourge put upon men by selfish women who only seek to burden a man, etc. You are wrong. Very wrong indeed. Link to post Share on other sites
jasminetea Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Was the 'Woggle' persona not allowing you to be vindictive enough? Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Was the 'Woggle' persona not allowing you to be vindictive enough? Him and I are not the same person if that is what you are implying. Link to post Share on other sites
jasminetea Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Good timing, woggle Link to post Share on other sites
Island Girl Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Was the 'Woggle' persona not allowing you to be vindictive enough? Woggle is not the same person JT. Link to post Share on other sites
jasminetea Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 How do you know, IG? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 How do you know, IG? Because after the few things that I have read Woggle write about his own mother, I don't think he would ever say that child rearing "doesn't count". Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 It was a few men who set up that system. Why should I suffer? So who gets more out of relationships? Make up your mind. I never set up that macho image, disgraced any woman or have a foot fetish. And all women expect those things don't they. If men have to do all those things how do women bear the bigger burden? I am trying really hard to understand your logic, but keep coming up empty. It wasn't just "a few" men that set that system up. It was centuries upon centuries, generation upon generations of men that set that system up. Women in most developed countries only got the chance to vote in the 1900s. So it was far more than a "few" men. In fact, most men wouldn't put up with your victim talk either. What exactly do YOU do in your relationships that makes you feel so put upon? What is the point of taking everyone's posts and then trying to turn them around to benefit yourself or attempt to prove your point (which was sorely lacking from the moment you first posted)? Link to post Share on other sites
theBrokenMuse Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I am trying really hard to understand your logic' date=' but keep coming up empty.[/quote'] yeah, many of these posts seem to be comprised of little more than bald assertions, deflection and blanket generalizations. It makes for one hell of an convoluted mess that I'm not even sure I want to touch. I honestly think it could give me a migraine. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 HOLY CATS!!!! I have to admit - I haven't been on here since this thread started & I haven't read EVERYTHING that was posted. My first thought, though, was that it might be Woggle too, just with a different name (sorry, Woggle). OP, I can't begin to tell you just how insulting your original post was to women...are you just a hard-core misogynist or what? I mean, even if you've been hurt to the nth degree by a woman, what you wrote is just a load of CR*P. Ever hear of equal partnerships? Ever hear of EQUAL treatment between spouses? If not, I'd suggest you take a good look around - there are plenty of them I know (my marriage being a case in point). I won't even begin to attempt to deconstruct your OP - suffice it say, you're a very bitter person who should probably be making a quick grab for the phone book & find a therapist who can help you with your warped view. :mad: Link to post Share on other sites
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ever hear of equal partnerships? Ever hear of EQUAL treatment between spouses? If not, I'd suggest you take a good look around - there are plenty of them I know (my marriage being a case in point). I've been around long enough to know that equal is very rare.... and often does not work out well. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I've been around long enough to know that equal is very rare.... and often does not work out well. Sorry to hear that, Untouchable - I'm sure I've "been around" as long as you have, if not longer (I'm an "old" woman, now! ) and I find that it works out just beautifully. We've been at it 11 years & so far, we're doing just fine with treating each other as equals. I'm sorry those you've met in life don't live up to treating one another as they'd like to be treated - that's just plain sad. Link to post Share on other sites
The Collector Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 ha, after reading the first post I knew the next 8 pages would consist of little to no debate of the actual points raised, but instead of the womenfolk of the Parish attacking the OP as a misogynist, leaving emoticon-heavy 'that was hilarious' type comments, and much female bonding as possible as they lined up to quote each other's humorous attacks and irrelevant jokes. They might as well post '#LA LA LA WE CAN'T HEAR YOU!#' Like a couple of people have mentioned, men simply cannot be honest about any unfairness they feel exists within male-female dynamics without this kind of reaction, while women remain free and are actively encouraged to complain about anything men ever do. They won't give up their victims-who-can-act-as-selfishly-as-they-please privileges without a fight, the little flowers. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 To e honest, in my PAST relationships I would say I got less out of the relationship than the guy did. That is why those relationships are over. I can't rememer in any of those situations thinking to myself "Jeeez! Why do us women always get less out of the relationship than men do?" I just figured it happened the way it happened due to a mismatch in compatiility. Sometimes you have to realize you chose your SO poorly and end the relationship. I didn't sit and seeth over the male gender as a whole - just the guy I had dated. For the OP's statement to hold truth, my relationships would have gone down differently. There are many threads on here in which a woman was the wronged party, not the one doing wrong. That means the OP's statement is false and motivated with his own hurt feelings. Why he chooses to waste his time trying to pin it on the entire female gender is lost on me; he didn't date every female in existence. This attitude only prevents him from healing and moving forward. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 The Collector. Are you also a victim? Link to post Share on other sites
2sure Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 It was not possible for me to read the entire tirade, but I would say from OP's list that he for some reason has attracted bottom of the barrel partners. A list with many similar attributes could be written by anyone m or f who has been disappointed with the quality of their partners. Many people bash the opposite sex. Many people bash their own roles in relationships and society . Bottom line is , where they are and who they are with is all based on them. Link to post Share on other sites
redtail Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Equality is not 50/50. To view a relationship based solely on "give and take" and the measure of one's contribution must be matched by your partner with an equality that you alone determine, will always bring disappointment and resentment. People in happy "equal" relationships find the good in their partner and appreciate them for the uniqueness that they alone can give. It's inappropriate to judge them because they don't satisfy your expectations but rather you should enjoy and relish what they do bring and keep your expectations to what it is that you expect of yourself. There is nothing that one can say to over turn how the OP feels towards relationships, one can always find fault with an imperfect world. The truly happy person sees the imperfection as a reflection, and is accepting. Link to post Share on other sites
The Collector Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Well, come on now! The first post was loaded with declarations of how life is for every person on the planet, and most of it is BS in MY world; not at ALL how MY life and relationships have been, currently are, or ever will be. The OP is simply a bitter, angry person with a very narrow view of the world and relationships. Why bother? Posting 'Generalizations!' is another tactic women (or men I guess) use to avoid debate. Many things in the first post are accurate descriptions of real life inequalities that face many men. Sure, life's unfair, but somethings are debatable. But not here apparently, or with women in real life unless you do it with real charm and humour, but you still run the risk of looking bitter. Trial, I'm not a victim, except perhaps of my own high hopes for women to listen to male issues like we've mostly been listening to theirs for the last few decades. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Posting 'Generalizations!' is another tactic women (or men I guess) use to avoid debate. Many things in the first post are accurate descriptions of real life inequalities that face many men. Sure, life's unfair, but somethings are debatable. But not here apparently, or with women in real life unless you do it with real charm and humour, but you still run the risk of looking bitter. Trial, I'm not a victim, except perhaps of my own high hopes for women to listen to male issues like we've mostly been listening to for the last few decades. It isn't a real male issue. It is an issue everyone experiences at some point when they date a jerk (gender neutral). If you want to argue MALE issues, they can't include issues that women deal with too. Link to post Share on other sites
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