It's over; need some hand-holding....

[MistyK]

Goodness gracious Ice, you are a tough nut.

 

"All I could think is that she still loves him and he will not give her the courtesy of the truth, the courtesy to let her go and move on with her life when he doesn't want to really be with her".

 

The above statement is a perfect example of Misty's delusion. The bastard surely did not pick Misty. Did he ?

 

maybe it is a delusion. maybe he does want to be with her, i don't know and I don't care anymore, but it was my impression (for good reason) that he just didn't want to be "divorced", more than any desire to be with her. I could see him returning to her, but not out of any real desire for her sexually or emotionally. It's more his self-image i think.

 

It should be obvious that he told me he doesn't want to be with her. In another thread I mentioned that his therapist seems sure that he will not go back to her and all of his family that i know is sure he won't go back to her and sure he wants to be with me despite his piss poor way of showing it.

 

Unfortunately, your jerky tone immediately puts me on the defensive and in the mode of trying to defend my feelings about xMM. When I'm trying to get over him, it's not helpful.

 

Now, with regard to my supposed hatred of BW. Not true. I did get caught up in his complaints about her and found myself inappropriately pissed at her. I am displeased with her actions towards his children, but ultimately, that is between those two. If you sense a bit of bitterness, i suspect that's part of the "competition" dynamic xMM set up for his own gains. But honestly, i wish nothing ill on the woman (but you may rest assured she wishes a whole lot of ill on me). Truthfully, most of her behaviors that I find inappropriate are the result of her H acting like a jerk. So, I get it.

[fooled once]

Misty, for your own sanity, put ice on ignore. You don't have to defend yourself to him. Those of us that have been with you on this journey, posting and advising, see the steps you have taken to begin to heal yourself.

 

Ignore his ramblings. Ignore his obvious issues. Ignore his insults. Ignore his venom.

 

Focus on healing yourself. Focus on keeping your resolve up to not be drawn back into a relationship that wasn't right for you. Focus on what is important in your life.

 

As for your birthday -- 30 is a great age. Rejoice and celebrate it. Don't let yourself have a pity part because EX MM won't be there to celebrate with you. Find happiness in MISTY.

 

((hug))

[offset_man]

Ok wow. This is not helpful and I resent the hell out of your tone. You haven't read the other threads and if you have such issues with people being the OW, consider not posting in this forum.

 

 

Hello Misty

 

It is unfortunate that there are people who want to get nasty on this forum; we are all here (or at least many of us) because we are in great pain. Some people are here to cause pain.

 

I will share my own experience with you as it is somewhat similar. I am a MM and I have been with a MW for 3.5 years (you can read the whole sordid truth on the "breaking up" forum under "this i(s) really screwed up but..."

 

She was the love of my life I think, and I hers. But it all came to an end about 3 weeks ago. She never stopped professing her undying, committed love to me, and was regularly asking my in person and through blackberry to pronounce the same.

 

But it all ended. Before it did I was having some trouble with the whole thing and wondered where it was going (don't get me wrong, I was still very much in love, however the love had become less "teenager" like, if that makes any sense. What do you expect after 3.5 years.

 

She was not ready to leave and neither was I, but as I understand no, I think that she wanted a plan, and that is what she started to ask before it came to an end.

 

Anyway, she ended it, and it ended badly. I also had that sense of relief, but wonder what would happen if she came back to me and said, "I can't live without you, need you etc etc as she often said. What would I do? I knew it was wrong. I also had to hide things I was doing with my wife -normal living stuff, but she was sooooo jealous of her.

 

Now I don't have to do that and I am trying to see it as a positive, but still -to be honest- struggling with it. This is a woman who, other than for the last two months when I was travelling and very busy, as was she, we'd talk by blackberry and phone many many times daily.

 

It is very hard. I don't know what to say other than, "I understand". If you love him however then perhaps it is worth a shot again. Try also to ignore those who will judge you and be mean in this forum.

[Dexter Morgan]

And all of this this is of course a complete aside from the fact that as a married man who has yet to break ties in a meaningful way with his wife, he really has no right to demand exclusivity from me.

 

true, but since you knowingly started sleeping with a MM, you have no basis for expecting him not to go home to the one he is married to.

[MistyK]

true, but since you knowingly started sleeping with a MM, you have no basis for expecting him not to go home to the one he is married to.

 

Well, I'd agree that I shouldn't be surprised that he spends so much time over there and has no boundaries at all with her, but I do think I was right to have the expectation when he moved out months ago and repeatedly swore up and down he was working on a life with me, he was committed to me, blah blah. Obviously my trusting his word was a dumb move. Love is not always blind, sometimes it is willfully stupid.

[jj33]

Dont beat yourself up. He moved out for crying out loud. You had every reason to expect it was real. Sure it doesnt always work out but people die each day too, you were looking at the glass as half full. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. You did the best you could with the information you had.

 

Gee I am full of cliches this afternoon but they are all true.

 

The important thing is you are moving ahead now.

 

(((hugs)))

[fooled once]

Misty, I have never really shared my story, but from your last post, I can totally relate.

 

The MM I was seeing moved out and into an apartment. He lived there for a year. I was over there many times (although we mostly spent time at my house as I had a 7 year old son). I slept over there, I bought stuff for the place (pillows, a coffee maker, etc). I KNOW he lived there. I also thought I knew his whereabouts most of the time. I mean, if he wasn't at work, he was at my house. Heck, he even went and saw the saw divorce attorney I had used.

 

I was not the "dirty little secret" so many OW were. We dined out, we went out of town together, he came to my son's baseball games with me. We were a couple. I was divorced (and NOT because of him - I had divorced due to my ex being an alcoholic and an abuser) and he was truly separated and I was under the impression headed towards divorce.

 

When his lease was up, we had briefly discussed him moving in with me, but before I could blink, he was moving back in with his wife. Seriously, one day he was in his apartment, the next he was moving. It was that quick.

 

He stated his estranged wife tried to commit suicide and so he felt he owed it to her to try again -- although according to him, it was all a farce and he would be moving back out, to me, within weeks. He stated he slept in the basement. And I fell for it all - hook, line and sinker. He professed his undying love to me, how we would be together, etc. Just give him a few weeks, which turned into a few months, which turned into a few more months.

 

After 10 months, I quit waiting and ended it.

 

He pursued me for 2 months - showing up at my house, showing up at my work - sending me flowers, tried to give me jewelry, etc.

 

As much as it hurt me, I knew I could NOT continue to think we would be together. I got a call from him in early July -- he was MOVING across the country WITH his wife, but according to him, just to get her settled. He called me FROM another state. I told him see ya. He called again a week later. I told him no.

 

A month later, I met my current husband

 

A month later, I got a call from the xMM and he stated he was flying back, he wanted to be with me - would I pick him up from the airport and at least talk to him.

 

I told him no. It was over.

 

This was 12 years ago. I won't lie - I wonder at times "what if" but I also know how hurt me too much with his lies and I knew I could never trust him again.

 

So -- while I know you are hurting, take to heart that life DOES go on and when you least expect it, you will meet the man who makes your heart flutter.

 

I have been married to my 2nd husband now for 11 years (we met in July and married the following April - we knew it was IT for both of us) and my husband to this day can make my heart flutter.

 

One day at a time my friend, one day at a time.

[SidLyon]

Misty,

 

I've been following your story but not felt I could contribute much. I think Ice is excessive in the way he phrases things but I can understand what he's getting at. I guess my concern is that you still have a mistaken belief that your MM doesn't really want to be with his wife, and he loves only you when it's apparent that he does want to be with his wife and probably loves her too. As I'm sure you already know it's irrelevant what he may have told you - like most MM in his situation he will tell the 2 women whatever will benefit him best.

 

If she's trying so hard to hang on then she probably loves him too. As a BW I'm trying hard to "hang on to" my H and it's because I love him and want to be with him. The reasons for that are complicated but I think very few women in my situation would want to hang on just for the sake of it.

 

I don't want to lecture you about seeing the light because I can see you are doing the right thing. I don't just mean from some objective moral viewpoint that it's better for Hs and Ws to stay together, but that it is not a good thing that a MM can string along 2 women at once when it causes so much pain and anguish to all involved.

 

I agree that he needs to set boundaries but whether that's with his W or with you remains to be seen. Basically you both have to insist on these boundaries and if you are both successful then he will be forced to make a choice.

 

It's clear to me that your MM has not established boundaries with his W or you until now (I hope).

 

Everything changes after d-day. If the MM can't do it himself at d-day then the women have to do it for him. It's hard whichever side of the fence you are.

 

S

[MistyK]

Misty,

 

I've been following your story but not felt I could contribute much. I think Ice is excessive in the way he phrases things but I can understand what he's getting at. I guess my concern is that you still have a mistaken belief that your MM doesn't really want to be with his wife, and he loves only you when it's apparent that he does want to be with his wife and probably loves her too. As I'm sure you already know it's irrelevant what he may have told you - like most MM in his situation he will tell the 2 women whatever will benefit him best.

 

S

 

I guess that I am not expressing myself very well. I have NO DOUBT whatsoever that he loves her. I do believe that he's not in love with her. (And admittedly, I have no real way of knowing one way or the other - except that I read the email he sent to her about loving her but not being in love with her and falling in love with me. I know he sent it too because I saw she responded). Frankly I would be concerned if there were NO love for the mother of his kids.

 

I know he doesn't want to hurt her (nor should he want to!). I believe that he likes the family unit being in tact, and she is an obvious package deal with the kids. But do I think he has a burning desire to do romantic things with her, no.

 

I believe he remains torn because he will not be happy with either one of us alone. He misses the connection with me when he's with her, and he misses having the family unit and the security he's had for 20 years of being married when he's with me. He's always missing something with one or the other, but it's not a reflection on BW or me, it's him with the issue. She's been a huge figure for most of his adult life; getting divorced after all that time is an identity changer - I felt that after being with my H for 12 years. What this boils down to unfortunately is that it's cake eating - he doesn't want one or the other, he insists on both. I don't think for a moment I'm better than her or even better for him than her. If he believed that, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. I told him I understand his desire to have it both ways, but that he's a total jerk for trying to do that.

 

I guess I feel I have moral authority on him on that one. I could have as easily continued the EA into a full blown PA with my H still with me. But I KNEW it was wrong and I refused to do that to my H. Even if he was wrong for me, he didn't deserve that and I acted accordingly when I started feeling that way. I'm not sure why that switch never flipped in him, or doesn't flip in most men for that matter.

[sugarmomma]

 

You think this guy is worth time of day ? He is not.

 

Until and unless this MM is out of your life you will never find peace and happiness.

 

Stop talking about it and get busy with your life , Misty.

 

Now this is REAL TALK!!!! He's not worth it.

 

Misty of course he is not gonna tell you that he wants to be with his W. Why would he do that knowing that you would end it? A MM is gonna say everything he can to get and stay in your head. Unfortunately you bought into the conversation for (correct me if I'm wrong), almost 3 years.

 

Speaking as a FOW for 3 months I got my azz out of that mess. I am a bit older than you and I am aware that talk is the cheapest thing going. My x was telling me all his grand plans and designs but his actions spoke louder than anything that ever came out of his mouth.

 

When you wrote about the time that he was rushing to get back with his W it sent chills all through me. That was the worst feeling in the world. When I am with a single guy I don't have to worry about him not spending the night, holidays or having to rush his time with me.

 

I will never allow another MM into my heart ever again. I think we women (BS included) have to learn to kick these cheating bastards to the curb after the first offence. When men know we are willing to be walked on they will do just that.

 

 

Be strong Misty. I don't know if Ice Pop is bitter but there is a lot of reality in the message that he is trying to convey. I just picture his advice coming from another OW. Its a sort of RAW honesty. Keep an open mind and don't take it personal. It really is said to jolt you out of the affair fog.

 

I know how easy it is to get defensive when you consider yourself just "following your heart" but the reality is that loving a MM rarely produces a happily ever after.

 

Whenever you think of going back think of all the times you had to spend holidays and other special moments alone while he was spending his life with his W (which he has every right to).

 

Youhave a chance to take control of your life. Go out and get superfine for your bDay and put on your eff him dress and enjoy your life!! You are young and have time to find a great man that's single.

[ForumFool]

Misty, I can't know but I believe MM DOES loves his wife...but that the love...romance/hot/new feeling is gone...so when he sez he is not in love but loves her...and he acts like it as he has..always being there for her when she calls or needs him...well....look you didn't miss out on anything...he never planned to really leave and can't really stay away from her. I have been divorced and can tell you.....when one REALLY doesn't love someone (the love that keeps people together ..romance fades) it is VERY easy to walk away...I have done it. Hubby wept and called and left flowers on my car...I just kept moving on without a thought to him...wishing him well but thats it..Your MM is NOT doing that...he loves his wife and will be with her NOT because she is manipulating him but because he CHOOSES to..............AND I am so glad you are now free from this crazy crap..I pray he doesnt look you up in 6 months....it will only bring you back to this unhappiness

[icepop]

Finally !!

 

SugarMama " gets " what I have been advocating.

 

 

 

Be strong Misty. I don't know if Ice Pop is bitter but there is a lot of reality in the message that he is trying to convey. I just picture his advice coming from another OW. Its a sort of RAW honesty. Keep an open mind and don't take it personal. It really is said to jolt you out of the affair fog.

 

The last sentence is exactly the effect I was trying to achieve. As SugarMomma points out, and, quite rightly, the effects of the fog are very strong , indeed. Thus, the intensity of my assault.

 

Again, just for the record, I am not a former OW or even female. I am in-love and deeply committed to my GF of 3 years. We are professionals have six children between us and they keep us quite busy and contented.

 

Finally, I am not bitter, just edgy. I just quit smoking 10 days ago...lol. But, don't worry, I'll get better, soon...lmao. And, I am staying quit.

I will add that this had had no bearing on my logic or approach as far as I can tell, but at this rate I think CY ( Ice's sugarbabe"s) is about to have me committed.lol.

 

 

Fooled Pnce said :

 

I am not intending to be mean, but I am so tired of seeing threads turned around and bashing of posters and insults.

 

You are very thoughtful FO. Thank you very much for being thoughtful for me, where I couldn't. ( I'm sorry. I needed a foil. And tag you were it. )

 

Misty :

 

A small bit of advice. The time is over for talk. The time is over for your life to slowly disintegrate into shyt. This c*cks*cker will not give you anything but a completely ruined life. Listen not to those who said that this is your decision and should not be swayed and that perhaps if you love Mr. X enough it will be ok.

 

WELL, MISTY. IT WILL NOT END OK. IT WILL NOT BE THE FAIRY TALE YOU DREAMED. YOUR CHILDREN"S LIVES DEPEND ON THE DECISION YOU MAKE.

 

YOU KNOW THE RIGHT CHOICE TO MAKE.

 

STOP TALKING IN THIS ROOM ABOUT IT.

STEEL YOURSELF.

ASK FOR NO MORE HELP.

GET PISSED AT THE MM FOR ALL OF HIS TRANSGRESSIONS AND SWEAR ALLEGIANCE TO MISTY THAT YOU WILL NO LONGER ALLOW HIM TO WALK ALL OVER YOU FOR HIS EGO OR SATISFACTION. HE USED YOU. FACE IT.

 

His wife meets most of his needs, and you meet the ones he doesn't get from her, But, you don't fulfill ENOUGH of his needs. That's why he hasn't left his wife. And, don't try to do it now. It won't work. He has needs that you can NEVER fulfill that she does.

 

Guess what ? You lose. I'm sorry.

 

Just do one thing Misty.

 

Don't lose twice. Promise you and your kids hat much.

 

IOW- EFF HIM.

[tami-chan]

....Thus, the intensity of my assault.

 

Perhaps you did not have to "assault" OP, afterall it looks like she is doing the right thing....

 

Nobody really has the right to verbally "assault" anyone....regardless of your perception of how she is handling her situation or regardless of your intention- an abusive parent can say their abuse was "intended" to discipline the child..doesn't make is right.

 

But to your credit, I think you actually have "softened" your rhetoric...thank you.

[jj33]

 

I believe he remains torn because he will not be happy with either one of us alone. He misses the connection with me when he's with her, and he misses having the family unit and the security he's had for 20 years of being married when he's with me. He's always missing something with one or the other, but it's not a reflection on BW or me, it's him with the issue. She's been a huge figure for most of his adult life; getting divorced after all that time is an identity changer - I felt that after being with my H for 12 years. What this boils down to unfortunately is that it's cake eating - he doesn't want one or the other, he insists on both. I don't think for a moment I'm better than her or even better for him than her. If he believed that, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

 

Misty I think that is so true in so so many situations. Well said. I came to the same conclusion with regard to the man I was involved with - his family is an integral part of his identity. Many people in his situation would have left years ago, but he stays because on some level its what works for him.

[Awesome84]

Icepop - it is going to fall on deaf ears because you seem to have real problem with TACT.

 

 

Agreed. I'm still trippin on the fact that he said 'You got what you deserved'... or something to that affect.... That's just cruel! Everyone is human and makes mistakes. And everyone has feelings. Even though you chose to have an affair with this man... it doesn't make you a bad person and it doesn't mean that you deserve to be treated as this scumbag treated you.

 

We all learn in different ways and unfortunately you learned the hard way. You have a new journey ahead of you.... Feel better!

[fooled once]

Perhaps you did not have to "assault" OP, afterall it looks like she is doing the right thing....

 

Nobody really has the right to verbally "assault" anyone....regardless of your perception of how she is handling her situation or regardless of your intention- an abusive parent can say their abuse was "intended" to discipline the child..doesn't make is right.

 

But to your credit, I think you actually have "softened" your rhetoric...thank you.

 

OMG I totally agree with Tami

 

I totally agree with your analogy Tam about the verbal assault. That won't get anyone to listen. It just makes people defensive. Great post Tami!

[icepop]

Respectfully, I disagree with the statements that I verbally assaulted this woman. I think I said numerous times that I empathized with her plight. But, there is no sugar coating these types of things. This seems especially true here, where I disagreed with her rationalization of her own activities.

 

However, I have noticed that there is a tendency for reality avoidance on web sites like these for those that feel they have been persecuted by whatever circumstance in life they managed to create for themselves. But, whatever.

 

Dream on.

 

The real issue with life problems like marital infidelity is that it rarely works out to anyone's benefit. It always sets everyone back years.

 

Anyway, board management informed me that I had become a sphincter. Their e-mail to me was regarding one particular post they thought was not particularly constructive. To my amazement it was the shortest post I made to Misty. All of five sentences. But, I will respect their decision. It is their board and I respect their wishes.

 

I was going to re-post it, but I was actually concerned that Tony would send me another " don't do that again, please " e-mail . I didn't want to waste his time once more.

 

Now, some of you would be delighted to know that I was thrown off the board. However, I am thrilled to report to you,that this is not the case.

 

Any notices of my demise are premature.

 

[MistyK]

Anyway, board management informed me that I had become a sphincter. Their e-mail to me was regarding one particular post they thought was not particularly constructive. To my amazement it was the shortest post I made to Misty. All of five sentences. But, I will respect their decision. It is their board and I respect their wishes.

 

I was going to re-post it, but I was actually concerned that Tony would send me another " don't do that again, please " e-mail . I didn't want to waste his time once more.

 

Now, some of you would be delighted to know that I was thrown off the board. However, I am thrilled to report to you,that this is not the case.

 

Any notices of my demise are premature.

 

 

Wow. Amazingly arrogant. And especially for someone who willfully disregards the forum rules. So now that YOU get called on the carpet, look who is making excuses now. "It was only 5 sentences!"

 

No one here is advocating ignoring reality, but there are ways to shed light on things and there are ways to be abusive. You chose as you chose and now you post simply to brag that your privileges weren't removed. Absolutely amazing.

[Lyssa]

Hi Misty,

 

How are you doing today? Have you done any retail therapy?

[icepop]

MistyK says :

 

Wow. Amazingly arrogant. And especially for someone who willfully disregards the forum rules. So now that YOU get called on the carpet, look who is making excuses now. "It was only 5 sentences!"

 

No one here is advocating ignoring reality, but there are ways to shed light on things and there are ways to be abusive.

 

Obviously MistyK is absolutely ignoring reality. Had she not been ignoring reality she would have ASKED me. Right, MistyK ?

 

MIsty did not in fact want to be enlightened or learn. She wants it ALL her way. Life is NOT like that MistyK.

 

The above sentence is a classic example of hjow Misty wants to shed light, but only HER kind of light apparantly.

 

 

You chose as you chose and now you post simply to brag that your privileges weren't removed. Absolutely amazing.

 

Again, a representaive example of how Misty's thinking is callous and shallow.

My point, despite, Misty's protestations is that I was not bragging, but that other posts I wrote to her actually rose to the threshold of what the site claims as their standards for reasonable discussion than the one I cited.

 

I chose to call you out, MistyK and now you don't like it. Here is an example of arrogance :

 

MistyK says

 

I guess I feel I have moral authority on him on that one. I could have as easily continued the EA into a full blown PA with my H still with me. But I KNEW it was wrong and I refused to do that to my H. Even if he was wrong for me, he didn't deserve that and I acted accordingly when I started feeling that way. I'm not sure why that switch never flipped in him, or doesn't flip in most men for that matter.

 

NOW THAT statement is arrogant.

 

 

So where do we stand with MM today, MistyK ?

 

Back in the picture ?

 

 

Are you still holding absolute moral authority, MistyK ?

 

Still covering your emotional impotence with that self-righteous brand of haughtiness and entitlement ?

 

MistyK ?

 

Being on this board is not that important to me. I ran into your thread by chance.

 

Get over yourself.

 

 

As they say MistyK, what goes around, comes around.

[MistyK]

Icepop,

Boy, your gf has a REAL GEM in you. If you're so over it, why the hell are you here? Nevermind, I totally don't care. You've officially been ignored now, so I'm not going to have the pleasure of seeing your future replies. Save your breath.

[MistyK]

Hi Misty,

 

How are you doing today? Have you done any retail therapy?

 

Hard to justify, I just got laid off a few days ago. Everything seems to happen at once. I cry an awful lot, I'm not sleeping or eating well, and generally I feel like crap. He continues to send me email, which I am ignoring, but it is hard. Sometimes i just want to sleep for a week or so.

 

Thank you again for everyone who has been so helpful.

[Lyssa]

Hard to justify, I just got laid off a few days ago. Everything seems to happen at once. I cry an awful lot, I'm not sleeping or eating well, and generally I feel like crap. He continues to send me email, which I am ignoring, but it is hard. Sometimes i just want to sleep for a week or so.

 

Thank you again for everyone who has been so helpful.

 

The ignore feature is the best when you have stalker. I've seen tough love but some people just have a different idea of tough love. It just makes them sound wee bit too bitter at times. I prefer hearing from Fooled Once! Not that I'm calling her bitter.

 

I'm sorry you got laid off! I don't what to say, Misty except hang in there. It sucks that everything happens all at once. You have to take care of yourself, Misty.

 

That's good of you - just ignore his emails. Better yet, BLOCK his e-add so that you don't have to continue receiving them.

 

Stay strong, Misty.

[icepop]

Misty :

 

MY GF certainly does know that I am a gem. But, you know what ? She knows that we are on equal ground. And, I am in-love with her very deeply. And, she knows it.

 

I am sorry to learn that you were recently laid-off. That combined with your current personal situation is difficult I am sure.

 

In any event, I do wish you well and I hope that you land on your feet, stronger than before and sooner rather than later.

 

Regards,

 

Ice

[sugarmomma]

Hard to justify, I just got laid off a few days ago. Everything seems to happen at once. I cry an awful lot, I'm not sleeping or eating well, and generally I feel like crap. He continues to send me email, which I am ignoring, but it is hard. Sometimes i just want to sleep for a week or so.

 

Thank you again for everyone who has been so helpful.

 

Why haven't you blocked his emails? Seems like that would make this process more difficult for you to let go of him. Sorry to hear about you job. Wow. When it rains........