What I think about hitting children.

[a4a]

Well, I might not win the poster child nomination....but I was BEAT beyond all recognition by my parents almost on a daily basis.....

 

Dysfunctionality is not a permanent condition......

 

You can be dysfunctional and not have been beaten or spanked. Do you think Paris Hilton got spanked - probably not..... she should have been!

[BareGoddess]

I think the disagreement some of us are having here has to do with the definition of what is violent and abusive.

 

To some people a swat is violent and abusive. I don't happen to agree with that.

[a4a]

I think the disagreement some of us are having here has to do with the definition of what is violent and abusive.

 

To some people a swat is violent and abusive. I don't happen to agree with that.

 

well it isn't.

 

I do think washing out a childs mouth with soap is abusive and potentially dangerous.

 

I think being an overbearing helicopter parent can cause children a great deal of harm.

[JamesM]

I think the disagreement some of us are having here has to do with the definition of what is violent and abusive.

 

To some people a swat is violent and abusive. I don't happen to agree with that.

 

To me the difference between abuse and punishment is the intent behind the "swat."

 

And certainly the difference between a "beating" and a spanking is that a beating is intended to hurt while a spanking is intended to discipline.

 

Spankings should shock more than they should hurt. Personally, I think my best spankings were when the boys had diapers on which cushioned the swat. While the spanking never hurt, the shock scared them more than the actual pain.

[BareGoddess]

Well said, James. I agree.

 

I also agree that different forms of discipline are more effective at different stages of development.

[BareGoddess]

well it isn't.

 

I do think washing out a childs mouth with soap is abusive and potentially dangerous.

 

I think being an overbearing helicopter parent can cause children a great deal of harm.

 

 

Absolutely. And a parent can be that way without ever laying a finger on their kids.

 

I wonder if parents really wash their kids mouths out with soap. That really is abusive in my book too.

[nittygritty]

Perhaps parents on a individual basis should have the right to allow the school to spank their children. I would so instruct a supervising adult of a child of mine to do so if called for as an appropriate punishment.

 

I think that if a kids completely disruptive in the classroom, they need to be sent home. Perhaps the parents will discipline their kids if there inconvenienced?

 

I can't think of any situation that I would have or let a school employee spank my kid. When do you think it would be an appropriate punishment for the school to spank a kid?

[a4a]

I think that if a kids completely disruptive in the classroom, they need to be sent home. Perhaps the parents will discipline their kids if there inconvenienced?

 

I can't think of any situation that I would have or let a school employee spank my kid. When do you think it would be an appropriate punishment for the school to spank a kid?

 

I think proper guidelines in place and a call made to the parent to confirm would be all that is needed.

 

John wrote on the school wall..... off to principal office.... call parent..... confirm and spankage!

 

End of story. Detention doesn't work. I had that once for throwing a book.... goofing around not being violent... detention did not phase me.

[a4a]

Yes, I was. Also got the soap-in-the-mouth. I assume the question about violence was a joke.

 

 

 

 

Your assumption was correct ..... but it did prove a point in a way.

 

dodge ball ?

[tanbark813]

dodge ball ?

 

Absolutely. But I feel it is only fair to warn you that I have been trained in the art of Slaughterball. That was a game we played in gym in junior high. It is similar to dodgeball but once a player is knocked out, they then go to behind the opposing team's half of the court and can throw balls at them from behind. It is also played with Nerf footballs rather than red rubber balls for increased accuracy and speed.

 

[Geishawhelk]

Detention doesn't work. I had that once for throwing a book.... goofing around not being violent... detention did not phase me.

 

I'll tell you what fazed me.

 

The school even telling my parents!

 

I was hit once, at school, by a teacher, with a ruler on both hands.

I hated him.

I was so humiliated.

Not because I'd been found out, and not because he hit me infront of others, but because I believed even then, that hitting a child was unacceptable.

I couldn't hit him, if he was stupid in class, could I?

[a4a]

GOSH this is just like the Wooden Spoon thread with Outcast in it.

 

hummmm..........

 

I looked for it but can't find it.

 

was some very similar opinions.

 

where did it go?

[a4a]

I'll tell you what fazed me.

 

The school even telling my parents!

 

I was hit once, at school, by a teacher, with a ruler on both hands.

I hated him.

I was so humiliated.

Not because I'd been found out, and not because he hit me infront of others, but because I believed even then, that hitting a child was unacceptable.

I couldn't hit him, if he was stupid in class, could I?

 

Well I guess the answer for you is - don't spank your kids. Fine by me.

But if I had one the spankings would likely happen.

 

You will not change my opinion and I will not change yours.

 

But I can say since spanking is now "bad" kids sure act a hell of a lot worse.

[Trimmer]

You will not change my opinion and I will not change yours.

 

But I can say since spanking is now "bad" kids sure act a hell of a lot worse.

Interesting assertion. So on one hand we could leave it that I will do what I believe is best for my kids, and others will do what they believe is best for theirs. I'm not even claiming to know for absolute sure whether spanking/hitting is detrimental - I freely admit that it's a belief.

 

But if you are saying "less spanking = worse kids" (and not just a little, but "a hell of a lot...") then are you essentially asserting that more spanking (humiliation, fear, whatever is in your domination toolbox) creates "better" kids? Do you believe that by choosing not to spank my kids, I'm doing them and society a disservice?

[a4a]

Interesting assertion. So on one hand we could leave it that I will do what I believe is best for my kids, and others will do what they believe is best for theirs. I'm not even claiming to know for absolute sure whether spanking/hitting is detrimental - I freely admit that it's a belief.

 

But if you are saying "less spanking = worse kids" (and not just a little, but "a hell of a lot...") then are you essentially asserting that more spanking (humiliation, fear, whatever is in your domination toolbox) creates "better" kids? Do you believe that by choosing not to spank my kids, I'm doing them and society a disservice?

 

Some individual children will benefit from spanking in the long run. Invididual is the key here.

 

I am not suggesting that every family make Thursday night spanking night if the kids need it or not.

 

And I do believe that children should have a healthy fear and respect for their parents. If some children benefit then yes.... spank them.

 

I do not know your children nor you so I cannot really have an opinion on what to do with your children in regards to spanking or rewarding them for that matter.

 

We could talk about the "hard wire" of the human animal as well. Virtually all species of higher evolved animals do use a form of "spanking" to send a clear message to their offspring.

 

** I am amazed that some think swatting a child on the ass is some form of abuse. Not like you are hold them down and pummel them with your fists.

[tanbark813]

I was fine until you got personal with me.

 

 

How was I at all personal?

 

...with your high horse.

 

Only one of us claimed to be able to "dissect" the other.

[nittygritty]

Interesting assertion. So on one hand we could leave it that I will do what I believe is best for my kids, and others will do what they believe is best for theirs. I'm not even claiming to know for absolute sure whether spanking/hitting is detrimental - I freely admit that it's a belief.

 

But if you are saying "less spanking = worse kids" (and not just a little, but "a hell of a lot...") then are you essentially asserting that more spanking (humiliation, fear, whatever is in your domination toolbox) creates "better" kids? Do you believe that by choosing not to spank my kids, I'm doing them and society a disservice?

 

I think a4a just meant they can't be president. Dodge ball.

[a4a]

I think a4a just meant they can't be president. Dodge ball.

 

dodge ball for sure!!

 

big ol' welt on the side of the head!

The big sting of a red rubber ball! YES!!

 

and you can chop down cherry trees and get spanked and become a president.

 

are you mocking this?

[nittygritty]

dodge ball for sure!!

 

big ol' welt on the side of the head!

The big sting of a red rubber ball! YES!!

 

and you can chop down cherry trees and get spanked and become a president.

 

are you mocking this?

 

Hopefully, you both know I was just kidding.

 

Different punishments work for different kids. Kudos to parents that can make their young kids behave without ever spanking. Spanking was effective in certain situations in teaching mine. Disciplining kids is a sensitive topic.

[Trialbyfire]

You have to wonder why physical punishment is okay if you love someone and they have no choice or physical ability to fight back and why it's not okay, when it's with another adult, who can do something about it.

 

It continues to floor me.

[Taramere]

I've encountered too many dreadful parents (in a previous profession) to buy into this "yay, smacking children is good. Bugger political correctness, a good clip round the ear is what they need" self-congratulating stuff.

 

The out of control children people are talking about...the ones who end up having to be taken into care....do people seriously believe that these children grow up in homes where their parents try to reason with them and use all the considered,non-violent methods that child care experts recommend?

 

Go to where they came from and meet their parents. You'll find people who are too stupid and lazy to employ any form of discipline other than screaming and physical violence. Then the children get to a stage where they'll hit back, the parents get scared and that's when the authorities everyone likes to bitch and whine about have to come in and try to clean up some of the mess.

 

Perhaps some of the pro-smackers here have it all worked out to a fine art whereby the smacking takes place in completely non-angry manner, the child realises the error of its ways, apologises, thanks the parent for some well meted out discipline... and all is harmonious and running like clockwork on Walton mountain again. I bet there are people reading this who have, on occasion, beaten the crap out of their kids to an extent that would quite clearly constitute child abuse. And what a relief it'll be to them to hear that other people whack their kids too.

 

I'm glad that there are people who do challenge this without worrying about being dismissed as namby pamby, overly politically correct milksops. There's is nothing weak about challenging violent parenting....especially as the people who bang on about the righteousness of doing it frequently have that aggressive just-waiting-for-an-excuse-to-explode thing about them that's intended to warn others off challenging them.

[Trialbyfire]

Yeah, I'm a god-damn bleeding heart when it comes to kids. I'll admit it openly. I've told my story about a couple of neighborhood boys several times on LS, where these boys were physically abused by their father. These boys were afraid and yet, when given some TLC, reacted like flowers to the sun. Both bright boys. And yes, I called social services on the father. And yes, they came to view my home as a refuge. Even the father came to me for advice sometimes because while he loved the boys, didn't know any other way. Damn it, at least he was trying and feared losing his boys enough to change. They finally moved away. I don't know what happened to them. My heart breaks everytime I think about them. I don't know if those boys stand a chance.

 

So call me a pansy. I don't give a damn.

[amaysngrace]

Taramere I agree with your post. Somewhat.

 

I do not beat my children. I have never used it as my first response in disciplining my children. I use it as my last resort.

 

I hate to hit them. I wish -God how I wish- it wouldn't get to that point. But it has occured.

 

I disagree with this thinking that it isn't "proper" to instill fear in children. Why do people abide by the law? Maybe because they are "afraid" of having the "authorities" intervene?

 

Maybe they are "afraid" to go to jail?

 

Sometimes children behave in a bad manner. They need to be taught that it is unacceptable to carry on and disregard authority and they should also be aware that such actions have consequences.

 

Haven't you ever met an adult who behaves so badly that you think perhaps they should have been hit as a child? People so obnoxious you'd like to smack them yourself?

 

Children are just little people. People who will one day become our society. If fearing authority keeps them in line then the spankings have paid off for everyone.

 

JMO

[Nemo]

Did anybody see that movie Good Will Hunting? That guy was a genius, and he never would have got there if it wasn't for his dad beating the crap out of him when he had the audacity to bring home an A-. It's vitally important to use every tool in the bag to motivate your children, lest they resign themselves to a life of bittersweet mediocrity.

[Taramere]

Haven't you ever met an adult who behaves so badly that you think perhaps they should have been hit as a child? People so obnoxious you'd like to smack them yourself?

 

Sure. My father used physical chastisement a lot when I was a child. Not as a form of discipline, but as a form of venting his rage. So in my teens I was pretty angry....and not only did I feel like smacking people; on occasion I went ahead and did it. I almost got expelled from school for it once, but the head teacher liked me and spent a lot of time talking to me about why I'd behaved in a way that she felt was so out of character for me. That was an important moment for me in learning to seriously start to challenge my father for his "violence is the answer" approach.

 

He told me about his experiences of childhood. Being beaten regularly by his out of control mother....which left him with a level of anger that, to this day, he sometimes has difficulty controlling. He knows he made mistakes when we were children, but he still has a belief that small children should be smacked. He smacked my nephew once, and there was a big family furore about it (especially from my brother, who still has a lot of anger towards my father about the physical punishment when we were kids)

 

So my parents sometimes have difficulty controlling my niece and nephew, because their parenting methods were based on criticism, anger and instilling fear. They get frustrated that those aren't methods that they're permitted to use with their grandchildren...and that frustration is picked up by the children and probably encourages them to act out further to see if tempers will be lost.

 

I used to work in children's homes with extremely difficult and often violent adolescents. I did long shifts, looking after up to 6 of them at any one time. Compared to that, I find "normal" kids, and particularly little ones, a breeze and a delight to deal with. Even when my niece and nephew are being a bit naughty I have never ever had the slightest urge to smack either of them. I'll raise my voice on occasion if I'm looking after them and they're starting to push too hard against the boundaries, but that's it.

 

I know that sometimes a parent will smack a bottom to give a young child an instant lesson. I don't think the occasional smack on the bottom is going to harm a child - although even mild physical chastisement can, I think, cause problems in the parent/child relationship if the child is a particularly sensitive one. What I do wonder is what happens when the smack on the bottom doesn't work. Is it followed up with a harder smack? A series of smacks? If mild physical pain doesn't teach the child a lesson, does that mean it's time to administer more severe pain?