What I think about hitting children.

[Trialbyfire]

they are quite irrational as well.

Not if they're calm and the parent or caregiver is calm. I've babysat my nephews since they were born. As long as there's no escalation, they're fine. If they're not in control, you put them into a time out, with the understanding that they can come out when they're calm. This puts the responsibility where it belongs, so they're able to process through the emotions and learn to get a handle on themselves. It works, if this is how they're consistently raised. They have their little fit in peace, then come out for the discussion.

 

If a child is in a full blown temper tantrum, you put them in a safe spot and ignore them, with the understanding that when they've calmed down, you will pay attention to them. I've even stepped over one of my nephews during this phase, completely ignoring him while he was having his hissy fit on the livingroom floor. He never did it to me again.

[carhill]

Even though children are too young to properly communicate, they're surprisingly rational.

 

The boy in my example is 11 months old and I would agree wholeheartedly. He has a firm grasp of what's going on in his little world, no doubt...

[amaysngrace]

I hit my kids when they act out of line or are showing me disrespect.

 

I'm a single mom. And I have to take on both roles as mom and dad. Sometimes they are impossible to handle. Impossible. We are talking about out of control breaking door jams or throwing a shoe at me, my son did that. Once.

 

So I hit them. It usually works. I can count on one hand how many times I've ever hit them each. I think I've only had to hit her twice. They are ten and eleven.

 

Is it effective? Well it sure seems to be. Is it wrong? My dad hit me before. Once that I can remember. For having a fit. But it taught me that if I was walking on thin ice and going down that road again all he needed to do was suggest he was going to hit me. And then I controlled myself.

 

Today I'm pretty much as laid back as a person can be. I'm not what you'd call high strung.

 

If it's because Dad hit me when I was a kid then all I can say to him is "thank you".

[Moose]

I do not like seeing children being smacked in Public either.

I'm offended when they AREN'T disciplined in public......that's just me though...

[carhill]

I think the public/private thing is child-specific. My mom always took me aside if any physical punishment was required in public. That way the focus was only on getting my attention without the additional burden of public humiliation. It was the same at school. The nuns only administered corporal punishment in the cloakroom. Everyone knew what was going on but it was out of public view, so less traumatic. Between knowing the cloakroom dimensions down to the inch and watching the mimeograph machine clanking away in the principals office, it's amazing that I was still able to get straight A's.

[tanbark813]

The nuns only administered corporal punishment in the cloakroom.

 

That sounds sexy.

[Moose]

My mom always took me aside if any physical punishment was required in public. That way the focus was only on getting my attention without the additional burden of public humiliation.

That takes away from the whole purpose in my opinion.

 

If my kids knew they were about to be embarrassed in a public setting, they straighten the act up PDQ.....

[amaysngrace]

If my kids knew they were about to be embarrassed in a public setting, they straighten the act up PDQ.....

 

Yeah...saying "don't make me hit you in public" usually works for me too.

[carhill]

That takes away from the whole purpose in my opinion.

 

If my kids knew they were about to be embarrassed in a public setting, they straighten the act up PDQ.....

That's why I said it was child-specific. IMO, they were smart to do things the way they did, in my case. This is a perfect example where each parent knows their child best. Should I have had children, my approach might have been the same or completely different, depending on the parent/child dynamic which developed and my assessment of the child's psychology. This is why I respect different parenting styles, even if not similar to what I experienced or believe in. Simply put, my parents didn't believe in public humiliation or embarrassment as an effective learning/discipline tool, so they didn't do it. I guess that's kind of like some of our members here not believing in spanking as an effective learning/discipline tool. YMMV

 

An interesting corollary is my wife did get yelled at and disciplined in public as a child in a large family and she has no problem humiliating me in public with things which IMO should be discussed privately. Such has been a major part of my marital issues with her, this disparity of boundaries of decorum. Perhaps they are indeed a reflection of our learning and discipline styles as children. Interesting thought

[carhill]

That sounds sexy.

Actually, there was this one sister (another name for a nun) in seventh grade who taught sex education that....

[Geishawhelk]

That sounds sexy.

 

Trust me. As an ex-convent girl it isn't. Carhills' description of them (spawn of he Devil) is pretty accurate.

Before their habits were shortened, I would have sworn they had cloven hooves!

Unfortunately, on a more sombre note, there are dreadful tales of Children during the war being taken overseas to Australia and Canada by the C.Church.... what became of them is too awful to describe here.

 

This thread is amazing.

I really thought I'd be opening up the floodgates of condemnation and hostility by opening this topic up for discussion. I am however, greatly touched by the number of people posting who are in agreement.

I cannot tell everyone how strongly I feel about corporal punishment for children.

To my mind, there is absolutely no justification for it whatsoever.

This said, much as I disagree with it - I am not 'other parents'.

Until I can truly say I have walked in everybody's shoes, and experienced first-hand what they have experienced, I cannot in all honesty really say what their minds and hearts decide, or why.

I don't like it. I don't agree with it. I may have intransigence in my stance, but being a parent is a thankless and ill-recognised task.

 

Parents can be pushed by their children to the absolute limits. I was taught that the main two reasons children wantonly misbehave is to seek attention (any is better than none) and to test where their limits are. Just at what point their parents will draw the line.

Some parents don';t know what a line is.....

 

I'm certain my mother very often reached the end of her tether with us.

She had a riding crop she would use on my brother.

he still resents it.

She shudders at the thought and cannot believe she ever resorted to such measures, and is both remorseful and contrite.

Not that it ever comes up.

Once, we spoke of it, and never since....

 

But she now says two things of great wisdom, with regard to Children.

 

"In matters of Taste, swim with the current.

In matters of Principle, stand like a rock."

 

and -

 

"When you've reached the end of your tether - tie a knot in it and hang on."

[Trialbyfire]

I'm just wondering about something. For people that feel it's okay to publically humiliate your children, is this the way you also want to be treated? For example, your employer chooses to publically humiliate you when you've made a small error by striking you, in front of all your coworkers and telling you, you're an idiot.

 

While some of you won't have this situation since you're self-employed, I'm certain you can still put yourself into someone else's shoes.

[tanbark813]

I'm just wondering about something. For people that feel it's okay to publically humiliate your children, is this the way you also want to be treated? For example, your employer chooses to publically humiliate you when you've made a small error by striking you, in front of all your coworkers and telling you, you're an idiot.

 

A parent-child relationship is nothing like an employer-employee relationship.

[Trialbyfire]

A parent-child relationship is nothing like an employer-employee relationship.

Oh? An employee relies on an employer to make a living. A child relies even more heavily on a parent to support them. Do you feel children don't deserve the same respect and rights to a non-physical environment? Why can't an employer swat you across your arse or across the back of your head, everytime you've screwed up?

[amaysngrace]

For people that feel it's okay to publically humiliate your children, is this the way you also want to be treated?

 

I'm no advocate of public humiliation. I believe there is a time and a place for everything.

 

That said I do think if a child is unruly in public they need to learn that it is unacceptable behavior.

 

I have pulled my children out of public places because of their behavior. And when I say pull I mean pull. Then I talk to them about their behavior the whole car ride home.

 

They hate that.

 

The worst part is I really wanted to be where we were at the time too.

[tanbark813]

Oh? An employee relies on an employer to make a living. A child relies even more heavily on a parent to support them.

 

A parent is legally obligated to support a child. An employer is under no obligation to support an employee.

 

An employee can look for a new boss at anytime. A child can't just quit a family and apply for a new one.

 

Parents love their children. Bosses rarely love their employees and very often loathe them.

 

Etc., etc., etc...

 

Do you feel children don't deserve the same respect and rights to a non-physical environment?

 

I do but you keep posting like you think it's one or the other. Reason with a child first. If they cooperate, great. If they don't, try some other form of punishment. If that works, awesome. If not, get more extreme. If that works, wonderful. If they're still jacka$$es after all that then beat their ass.

 

Why can't an employer swat you across your arse or across the back of your head, everytime you've screwed up?

 

Aside from it being illegal, he wouldn't need to. A verbal warning would suffice. Also, because I'm an adult. And finally, it would lead to me quitting and he can't afford to lose me.

[Geishawhelk]

aside from it being illegal.

Curious that.

[Nemo]

Here's a model child, who was just having a bit of fun at the zoo.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/03/australia.zoo.carnage.ap/index.html

[Trialbyfire]

So it's okay to strike someone who has no choice in their parents and because you love them. It's not okay to strike someone because they're an adult and they might walk away from a job.

 

There are also laws against enacting violence on adults but no laws to protect children from their loving parents. That's one sad statement.

 

Not only was I raised in an environment of non-domestic violence, so were my parents and my grandparents and all their siblings and families. We're all law-abiding citizens that turned out okay. Why is that the case, if it's an individual-based need? Could it be that domestic violence isn't necessary?

[Geishawhelk]

I have to say though. This turned up in my mailbox the other day, and i nearly wet myself.

 

"Most people think it improper to spank children, so I have tried other methods to control my kids when they have one of 'those moments.'

 

One that I found effective is for me to just take the child for a car ride and talk.

Some say it's the vibration from the car, others say it's the time away from any distractions such as TV, Video Games, Computer, IPod, etc.

For those who'd like a quick snapshot of me and my kid interacting during one of our little car-rides, click on the link below.

 

Try it. It's effective."

[tanbark813]

So it's okay to strike someone who has no choice in their parents and because you love them. It's not okay to strike someone because they're an adult and they might walk away from a job.

 

Pretty much.

 

There are also laws against enacting violence on adults but no laws to protect children from their loving parents.

 

That's not true. If an adult is physically abusive then CPS can take the child away. There's a difference between spanking a child and beating the shyt out of him/her. You're thinking too black and white.

 

Not only was I raised in an environment of non-domestic violence, so were my parents and my grandparents and all their siblings and families. We're all law-abiding citizens that turned out okay. Why is that the case, if it's an individual-based need? Could it be that domestic violence isn't necessary?

 

Not only was I raised by parents who spanked me, so were my parents (not sure about other relatives). We're all law-abiding citizens that turned out okay too. Why is that the case, if it's an individual-based need? Could it be that reasoning isn't necessary?

 

That last question is, of course, tongue-in-cheek.

 

The bottom line is there's no right or wrong here. All methods have their pros and cons. Other people are as entitled to their opinions as you are to yours.

[Geishawhelk]

Here's a model child, who was just having a bit of fun at the zoo.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/03/australia.zoo.carnage.ap/index.html

 

It's since been discovered that the child is suffering from a rare form of Autism. He has no concept whatsoever of Right and Wrong and was incapable of discriminating what should and shouldn't have been done.

feeding other live specimens to a zoo animal is dreadful. Except that in some zoos, livestock is fed live food. Snakes and lizards are often given live prey.

Smashing Lizards over the head with a rock is something I couldn't bring myself to watch, let alone emulate. But as has been said, the child had a mental condition.

[Trialbyfire]

Btw, I'm no pacifist so don't get the wrong idea. I just believe that the little ones deserve the same dignities, respect and legal rights that adults deserve. If two same size grown men or women want to duke it out, that's their choice and their responsibility.

[Trialbyfire]

Pretty much.

That's irrational. If you use that logic, then it's okay to isolate and slap around a SAHM because they have no where to turn.

 

That's not true. If an adult is physically abusive then CPS can take the child away. There's a difference between spanking a child and beating the shyt out of him/her. You're thinking too black and white.

Laws only protect if someone were to report it. CPS can take away a child when the parents spank them too, so you're right, there are laws that protect children. The only problem is that children won't report their parents because they're afraid, don't know any other way and also, sadly enough, love their parents. A two-year old cannot report their parents.

 

Not only was I raised by parents who spanked me, so were my parents (not sure about other relatives). We're all law-abiding citizens that turned out okay too. Why is that the case, if it's an individual-based need? Could it be that reasoning isn't necessary?

So without the spankings, you believe you would have turned out horribly?

 

The bottom line is there's no right or wrong here. All methods have their pros and cons. Other people are as entitled to their opinions as you are to yours.

Where did I say people weren't entitled to their opinions? Not once have I said it. It's also my right to debate or dispute those opinions, as it's your right to dispute mine.

[Nemo]

There are lots of children and young teens with "mental conditions" that might miraculously clear up with a little discipline.

 

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24544792-663,00.html

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/31/2406427.htm

 

Mind you, these are both from Australia, a country founded by criminals. Which leads me to believe that these things are in the genes, and the only method of control for such tearaways is a good spanking when they step out of line.