What I think about hitting children.

[tanbark813]

That's irrational. If you use that logic, then it's okay to isolate and slap around a SAHM because they have no where to turn.

 

Uh, no. There are plenty of things that are legal or illegal for adults that aren't for children. Plus, adults are expected to know right from wrong, children don't always do.

 

Again, you're confusing spanking with abuse.

 

So without the spankings, you believe you would have turned out horribly?

 

No. I'm saying that just because you spank a child doesn't mean they're going to turn into a serial killer.

 

Where did I say people weren't entitled to their opinions? Not once have I said it. It's also my right to debate or dispute those opinions, as it's your right to dispute mine.

 

You challenge everyone who disagrees with you as if you think your opinion is the only correct one.

[Nemo]

Okay, the Russians seem to be getting in on the act. Say no more!

[Geishawhelk]

Yes, please, let's not get personal, people.

 

Spasiba.

[Trialbyfire]

Uh, no. There are plenty of things that are legal or illegal for adults that aren't for children. Plus, adults are expected to know right from wrong, children don't always do.

So you're suggesting that if someone doesn't know right from wrong, it's okay to smack them around? Let's say someone immigrates to the U.S. and is ignorant of the law. Should they be spanked or get a whack upside the head, for their ignorance?

Again, you're confusing spanking with abuse.

It is abuse.

 

No. I'm saying that just because you spank a child doesn't mean they're going to turn into a serial killer.

I've never said that. What I've said is that it's not necessary to enact physical violence on a child, in order to raise or teach them right from wrong. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

You challenge everyone who disagrees with you as if you think your opinion is the only correct one.

That's your own insecurity. I could easily say the same for you. You always have to be right.

[tanbark813]

So you're suggesting that if someone doesn't know right from wrong, it's okay to smack them around? Let's say someone immigrates to the U.S. and is ignorant of the law. Should they be spanked or get a whack upside the head, for their ignorance?

 

No. Again there is a difference between a child and an adult. You're also not the parent of some random immigrant.

 

It is abuse.

 

In your opinion, it is. In mine, it is not.

 

That's your own insecurity. I could easily say the same for you. You always have to be right.

 

Yes, I'm so insecure about my parenting methods.

 

The difference between you and me is that I think that reasoning is okay and spanking is okay. There is a time and place for everything. In some instances one method is probably going to work better than another.

 

If you can raise a child without ever laying a finger on it, great. More power to you. I'm not saying that's wrong. What I am saying is that it's not necessarily wrong to employ spanking either.

[Geishawhelk]

Why is it necessarily right?

[carhill]

A little late back into this, but, anyway

 

There are also laws against enacting violence on adults but no laws to protect children from their loving parents. That's one sad statement.

 

Depending on jurisdiction, I believe there are substantial sanctions in place regarding violence against children. IMO, content and intent are definitive.

 

Some examples to ponder:

 

When I'm teasing my wife and she slaps me on my ass and tells me to shut up, is that domestic violence? My ass still hurts from the last time

 

When I'm doing it doggie style and slap her on the ass and call her a bad girl, is that domestic violence?

 

When I see a child in potential danger and grab their arm so forcibly that I bruise them in removing them from that danger, is that domestic violence? What if, instead of the child, it were my wife; my sister; my friend. What if I spanked the child to get his/her attention after removal from such danger if it appeared to me that he/she wasn't listening when I was attempting to educate about the danger while it was fresh in both our minds?Is that domestic violence?

 

Again, intent and content.

 

If the purpose is to antagonize or inflict intentional pain (even with words), that conjures up images of abuse/violence. I could very well have been abusing my wife by teasing her, if my intent was abusive and meant intentionally to cause her pain. These examples all illustrate the complexities of human interaction, including parent/child interaction. This is why I never judge a parent by a single action and/or dynamic I observe. I actually tend not to judge parents at all, rather focus on my role as a community parent. I did this a lot as a docent, since I got to see a broad cross-section of parenting styles while working at the zoo. A psychologist's dream job Remarkably, I tended to have more trouble with the adults than with the children when it came to following zoo rules

 

If the intent is to educate and focus attention, then that is a completely different dynamic. Content and intent. Any number of actions and words can be used to convey such meaning and still fall within the parameter of healthy and non-violent.

 

 

 

In the larger sense (moving away from children now), societally, we see numerous examples of actual violence and the learned threat thereof being a deterrence to inappropriate behavior and/or violent acts. I tend to err on the side of non-violence myself (I find the emotions precipitating the acts of violence too overwhelming), but recognize that some people just don't respond to reasoned, reasonable and peaceful communication. If they did, we wouldn't have wars

[Trialbyfire]

No. Again there is a difference between a child and an adult. You're also not the parent of some random immigrant.

How many children have you babysat, been involved with, including handicapped children, and/or raised? Children are much more capable and rational than most adults give them credit for. I've babysat my nephews and friends kids a lot. I've also worked with handicapped children. No doubt I've never raised any children but have had more than enough exposure to them to realize they're neither stupid or incompetent. They're little unformed/ignorant/loving/adorable human beings that deserve to be treated as human beings, with respect and dignity and age appropriate rationale. They learn incredibly quickly and excel, if given a positive environment.

In your opinion, it is. In mine, it is not.

Most definitely, we agree to disagree.

 

The difference between you and me is that I think that reasoning is okay and spanking is okay. There is a time and place for everything. In some instances one method is probably going to work better than another.

That's your opinion, my opinion is that violence isn't necessary at all.

 

If you can raise a child without ever laying a finger on it, great. More power to you. I'm not saying that's wrong. What I am saying is that it's not necessarily wrong to employ spanking either.

Once again, we'll have to agree to disagree. If it's not necessary to strike someone else, why do it as standard practice, to dominate another individual?

[tanbark813]

Why is it necessarily right?

 

I never said it was.

 

Whether is it right or wrong depends on the circumstances.

[Geishawhelk]

Now there, I would have to disagree.

I think it depends on self-control.

[tanbark813]

How many children have you babysat, been involved with, including handicapped children, and/or raised?

 

None. But I can remember what it was like to be a child.

 

If it's not necessary to strike someone else, why do it as standard practice, to dominate another individual?

 

I never said you should strike someone unnecessarily. Who's putting words in whose mouth?

 

If it's not necessary to spank a child, then awesome. I'm saying that while reasoning may sometimes solve the problem, I'm not idealistic enough to believe that every child in every home in the world can be successfully disciplined with no physical force whatsoever. I believe that there will be instances when it is necessary.

[Trialbyfire]

If it's not necessary to spank a child, then awesome. I'm saying that while reasoning may solve the problem, I'm not idealistic enough to believe that every child in every home in the world can be successfully disciplined with no physical force whatsoever. I believe that there will be instances when it is necessary.

I can only go by my personal experience and have never met a child that can't be reasoned with or disciplined, without needing to resort to spanking. This includes handicapped children.

 

It's more the parents need, rather than the child's need, to strike a child. Sure, it takes more energy to rationalize with a child, rather than strike them. Sure, you aren't able to blow off as much of your personal anger as a parent, without striking them. I just don't feel that in this situation, those are enough excuses to strike someone who can't fight back.

[tanbark813]

I can only go by my personal experience and have never met a child that can't be reasoned with or disciplined, without needing to resort to spanking. This includes handicapped children.

 

Then you have been very lucky.

[Nemo]

Let's face it - the only language those child thugs are going to understand is a little dose of their own medicine.

[carhill]

Yeah, TBH, and believe me I tried, there were some kids who only understood the language of violence. Fortunately, no deaths were involved, at my hand anyway. I can only imagine what kind of adults they turned out to be. I felt sorry for them, even as a child. Sad

[Trimmer]

I'm a parent of two kids, roughly halfway to adulthood. I don't claim this makes me an expert, but I'm no neophyte either - I've got some field experience.

 

I think that, through the behaviors we parents model, we give kids a set of tools that they will consider "available" in as they interact with others as they grow up and live independent lives - in school, jobs, and as adults in general.

 

If physical dominance by someone more powerful (spanking, hitting, choke holds, etc.) is a tool that parents use in extreme cases - to get what we want when all else fails - then that becomes a strongly formative lesson for a developing child.

 

Likewise, whatever forms of emotional dominance we deploy - rage, public humiliation, etc - are observed, absorbed, and stocked away in that same toolbox for the future.

 

Some people believe that our "parenting" can be isolated from the way we "turn out," as if there's some kind of reset that occurs as we transition from adolescence to adulthood. We've heard it in this thread: "I was spanked and I turned out OK," but can you not hear the implicit "in spite of it..." tacked on at the end?

 

I believe that the very things we do in parenting our children day-to-day form the foundations of their coping and interpersonal toolsets, influencing the way they interact with others from toddlerhood through adulthood.

 

So, it comes as no big surprise: most of us think we're basically OK, and that our kids will be OK if they "turn out like us," so we do what we know - we use the models we experienced, the first of which were our parents (exactly my point from above.)

 

But I do believe our decisions as to the techniques we use in our exercise of parental authority affect the way our kids will interact with the world, now and throughout their lives. These are not the only influences (not every obnoxious boss was publicly humiliated by his or her parents - some learned it from peers later on, etc...) but I think they are the fundamental influences - the groundwork.

 

I'm not a perfect parent; I've modeled some behaviors that I'm not proud of, and I'm always reviewing myself and my parenting to try to do better today than yesterday. But my own philosophy is that I don't want my kids to turn to physical dominance in their interactions with others, except if they are threatened with physical harm, and I also don't want them to consider emotional dominance - humiliation, anger, etc. - among their primary tools for interacting with others. So I will do my best not to model these behaviors in my own parenting.

 

It's not easy - hell, you've got to figure that any day of the week, slapping them around and imposing my physical and/or emotional dominance would certainly get them to "behave" a lot more easily than the whole "modeling appropriate behavior" thing - but those aren't the human beings I'm intending to guide toward adulthood here.

 

It's not easy, but the really good things usually aren't.

[Nemo]

A good, balanced post, Trimmer. Verging on brilliance. You deserve a spanking.

[Trialbyfire]

Trimmer, beyond the normal kid hijinx, do your children respect you? If you don't mind me asking, how old are your children or ballpark (0-3, 4 - 8, 9 - 12, 13 - 17)?

 

Overall, how are your children turning out?

[Meaplus3]

I have 3 small children myself and I agree with you GW.. that hitting is not the right thing to do. I believe it sends a very negative message instead of correcting the behavior. I am a firm believer in the "Time out approach" and that's what I use to discipline my children. By sending a child into "Time out" it forces them to think about their actions and how their actions will not be tolerated. I personaly have had a lot of luck with this form of discipline.

 

AP:)

[Moose]

I'm just wondering about something. For people that feel it's okay to publically humiliate your children, is this the way you also want to be treated? For example, your employer chooses to publically humiliate you when you've made a small error by striking you, in front of all your coworkers and telling you, you're an idiot.

 

While some of you won't have this situation since you're self-employed, I'm certain you can still put yourself into someone else's shoes.

My boss and I have physically fought in front of our employees on several occassions.

 

Normally it ends with a phone call from him to my mother, and I get a german filled lecture for an hour or so.....

 

The dynamics that exists here it not the norm though.

 

Like Tan said, adults striking other adults is illegal. That's all that needs to be said there.....

 

Is striking children illegal. Not enitrely, but give it some time.

 

I'll be the first in line to confess my crime(s).....

[amaysngrace]

For people that feel it's okay to publically humiliate your children, is this the way you also want to be treated?

 

If my children start going at it in public or causing a scene then I am the one being humiliated in public.

 

Which is why I try to get them out of there as quickly and as quietly as possible and deal with it as I see fit. Have I ever hit them for this? Absolutely not. Has it escalated to a point where it came down to that as a result of them not backing down? Perhaps.

 

It's not alway a picnic on a red checkered blanket under a big oak tree when you are a parent.

 

When parents say others have no idea how hard it can be...well I believe that they don't.

[Moose]

If my children start going at it in public or causing a scene then I am the one being humiliated in public.

And why are you humiliated? Could it be because your parenting practices are being judged? That's the only reason I can come up with.....

 

So I say REDEEM yourself immediately in front of EVERYONE and shut the kid up RIGHT THEN AND THERE!

 

But....again.....that's just me.....

[a4a]

Perhaps fear is the best way to control a child.

 

I am pro spanking.

 

As a matter a fact next person I see get control over their child in a public place I am going to outright thank them.

 

 

And if school spankings were still allowed like back in the old days when I was growing up maybe there wouldn't be so many kids toting guns and shooting other kids.

 

Seems like the anti spanking movement isn't having such a good effect.

[marlena]

I, too, think that an occassional good ol' smack in the behind goes a long way in forming character in kids.

[amaysngrace]

And why are you humiliated? Could it be because your parenting practices are being judged? That's the only reason I can come up with.....

 

So I say REDEEM yourself immediately in front of EVERYONE and shut the kid up RIGHT THEN AND THERE!

 

Yeah but I don't much care what others think of me.

 

It is that though. I feel ashamed because it's a reflection on me. My kids go at it a lot. Mostly always at home. When they misbehave in public it irritates me so badly I'd love to just take their head and smash it into a building.

 

But I constrain myself.

 

Slapping my kids around is not my style. The hugs and kisses I've given them by far have outnumbered the hits they've gotten. Way far outnumbered the hits.

 

The bottom line is we all do the best that we can according to our own situations.