Question for Guys 40 - 50

[vonerik012]

I think it is insulting to actual 30 yr old females, when obviously older looking women keep saying they look the younger womans age.. In a way it is saying the 30 yr old can pass for a 45 yr old woman, which is not so nice to hear either.

[Rooster_DAR]

I think it is insulting to actual 30 yr old females, when obviously older looking women keep saying they look the younger womans age.. In a way it is saying the 30 yr old can pass for a 45 yr old woman, which is not so nice to hear either.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought when I was reading through this thread.

[Capricciosa]

 

But if you don't think your parents ever wonder what a child would look like or how they would be if they made it themselves, you are mistaken!

 

That's hugely unkind. Anonymity is no excuse for blatant insensivity.

[Jersey Shortie]

Jersey,

Did you even read the last 2 paragraphs of the article YOU posted???

 

Yeap. I read it. It amuses me that this is the only part of the article you want to address and don't want to discuss all the other key points made through-out the entire article. Which basically, are straight up, that the quality of a 35+ year old men's sprem decreases so much that they are also contributing members of defects in children, just as women can be. You do recongnize that it takes two to make children? Why would you even think that women were more responsible for something that requires the DNA of two people? Last time I checked, men both phyiscally and mentally were effected by the effect of aging just as women. Why people think this should be any different when it comes to the sexual organs amazes me.

 

I suspect that much more research has been done to see how much a mother contributes to her offsprings out come then fathers. And I also suspect that we will discover in the future that men are much more a part of the outcome that previously thought. And as we can see by the article I posted, that is already being researched and discovered.

 

"Despite the new research, there's still a big difference between the female and the male biological clock," says Muller. "When the female's alarm goes off at the end, that's it. For men, the battery slowly winds down.

 

I never argued there weren't differences or that men loose the ability to have children like women do. I still don't think men over a certain age need to be realistic about the risks they bring to the table when having children over a certain age, just as women over a certain age need to be.

 

Yes, chance of problems increase as the years pass, but some men have significant DNA damage at 35, while others go on forever—their sperm is fine in their 70s."

Men can't rewind their biological clocks, but they can slow them down, Fisch agrees. Just remember, once you're in your 40s, you're past your maintenance-free years—you have to take care of yourself. "If you want children from then on," he advises, "get into the best shape of your life."

 

Did you hear that men in your 70s? You can have children too! Yay!

 

 

No man in his 70s has any right to be having children. Give me a break.

 

The truth is Vonerick, you want to ignore any information that makes men just as much a partner in any negative effects they can have in baring children, just as women. And if that's the way you want to play it bring it on. If women have more responsibility for the defects, then women also must have more of the responsibility for all the wonderful qualities that come out of a child they made more then men do as well.

 

 

LOL...

 

Well in about 10 years i will be 40.. My grandfather was born in 1870... Men have much more time...Sorry, that's life.

 

Okay Vonerick..you win. You win. Is that what you are looking for? Some kind of power struggle that proves men are better then women? You obviously think you're a better human being as a man than women. Why don't I just give you what you are looking for in validation as a man:

 

Men win. Men win for being older or younger. Men are wonderful. They are just better human beings then women and are more deserving of life and of a life with children. Men can do everything and are never lesser men for getting older! Women on the other hand are usless wastes of space for having the nerve to age. Women are just useless incubators that only contributing factors in a child's birth defects. Never men. They are too perfect. Women matter until they become a "depreciating value". Then we are just less deserving of male affection.

 

When your wife hits that age that makes a man see a woman as less and less deserving of a life with a family that loves her and a man that loves her, you can kick her out of the door too. Then maybe you can marry one of your daughters friends and have another new family! Because your "shelf life is longer" You're the winner at the game of life and women are the losers. Is that how you want it to be? Sure seems like you do.

 

Thank you for your enligtening attitude about the way men truly feel about women. We are crap and you are the perfect essence of masculinity that will never depreciate in value for aging. That's something that only women deserve to have because of their lowly position in the world.

[vonerik012]

t's really getting ridiculous...

 

My position is that men who want a family need to find a woman that would be of a good age to accommodate that.

 

I am not talking about having unhealthy children.. That can happen to someone at any age, unfortunately.

 

But the stats in the article are not even significant..It does not give the large picture.. I am assuming this is for a reason..

 

 

As an example, it might say a 40 yr old male is 6 times more likely to have an autistic(something that nobody knows what causes, and something that is hard to even define) son than a male under 30...(What about a guy in his 30's?"

 

So, lets say it was 1 out of a 1000,, Now it is 6 out of a thousand..Yes, 6 times greater.. Still minimal.

[Jake Barnes]

Do you guys think its more natural for an older woman to be with a younger man?

 

Im reserving judgement and just asking. I do see more older women leaving their husbands for younger men then the opposite, but that maybe because I read Loveshack too much

[almost famous]

Why is that anymore unnatural than a 52 year old man dating a 32 year old woman, which Vonnerik will claim is the norm?

[Jake Barnes]

Why is that anymore unnatural than a 52 year old man dating a 32 year old woman, which Vonnerik will claim is the norm?

Neither one seems particularly natural.

 

That kind of gap seems somewhat ugly , but I do detect a hypocrisy where more and more women are claiming that they need someone younger to keep up with them as they age, but act disgusted at older men with younger women as if theyre creepy pedophiles buying affection with money

[almost famous]

Oh, OK, I don't see things that way.

A coworker aged 28 recently married a 45 year old man and I can say that I wouldn't be attracted to him when I was her age (not now, either, not my type.) But when you see them together, there is a lot of love there, they just seem to belong together.

 

Neither one seems particularly natural.

 

That kind of gap seems somewhat ugly , but I do detect a hypocrisy where more and more women are claiming that they need someone younger to keep up with them as they age, but act disgusted at older men with younger women as if theyre creepy pedophiles buying affection with money

[vonerik012]

LOL

 

Jesus... When did I say 52 and 32 ?? I said a 52 yr old man wants his age or younger.. Could be just a few years younger..he would rather have 10 years younger. But definitely not 10 years older...

 

And he can get 10 years younger, and easily does...To have a marriage and real relationship.. Not just sex.

[almost famous]

A few years younger to a 52 year old man really isn't that much difference.

[soserious1]

Neither one seems particularly natural.

 

That kind of gap seems somewhat ugly , but I do detect a hypocrisy where more and more women are claiming that they need someone younger to keep up with them as they age, but act disgusted at older men with younger women as if theyre creepy pedophiles buying affection with money

 

I've never said anything of the sort.

 

 

If we want to look at long term partnerships and we're considering nature, we must also look at the fact that men on average die younger than women do. From that perspective an older woman who's in good health choosing to marry a man 5-7 yrs her junior will be reducing the chances that she's going to be widow and/or reducing the number of years she spends alone before she dies after her husband has passed away.

 

I don't know many women who have married men more than 10 yrs their junior. I do know several guys who've married much younger partners and there's a little nugget to also be factored in here.

 

Many of those much younger women change as they mature, that lovestuck 25 yr old who thought the 41 yr old man was a god when she married him, may very easily dump him once she hits 35..often after a kid or two, then he's 51 or so,paying support for those kids and often still paying college bills for children of a first marriage.There's one of those guys at my job now..57 yrs old, 2nd marriage.. wife in her early 40's, he alternates sleeping on his sister's sofa and in his car in our work's parking garage.. the reason? he works a million hours a week and still can't afford a place to live and the combined support obligations for 5 children.

 

I think that when you go more than a decade younger then you are increasing your chances that it isn't going to work out for the rest of your lifetime.. and that goes for both men and women.

 

There is something very important, very central to a life bond that involves being with someone who comes from relatively the same place and same time as you do. Once you reach a 15 yr difference in ages..you've basically got a

generation between you.That might be exciting,invigorating at first but over the long haul?

 

At any rate, I date people who interest me, I suspect other people do the same. You don't want me because I'm older? that's your choice but don't expect me to beg forgiveness for growing older and don't expect me to buy into the notion that I've got to settle for any man who looks at me simply because I'm not 25 anymore.

[vonerik012]

I've never said anything of the sort.

 

 

If we want to look at long term partnerships and we're considering nature, we must also look at the fact that men on average die younger than women do. From that perspective an older woman who's in good health choosing to marry a man 5-7 yrs her junior will be reducing the chances that she's going to be widow and/or reducing the number of years she spends alone before she dies after her husband has passed away.

 

I don't know many women who have married men more than 10 yrs their junior. I do know several guys who've married much younger partners and there's a little nugget to also be factored in here.

 

Many of those much younger women change as they mature, that lovestuck 25 yr old who thought the 41 yr old man was a god when she married him, may very easily dump him once she hits 35..often after a kid or two, then he's 51 or so,paying support for those kids and often still paying college bills for children of a first marriage.There's one of those guys at my job now..57 yrs old, 2nd marriage.. wife in her early 40's, he alternates sleeping on his sister's sofa and in his car in our work's parking garage.. the reason? he works a million hours a week and still can't afford a place to live and the combined support obligations for 5 children.

 

I think that when you go more than a decade younger then you are increasing your chances that it isn't going to work out for the rest of your lifetime.. and that goes for both men and women.

 

There is something very important, very central to a life bond that involves being with someone who comes from relatively the same place and same time as you do. Once you reach a 15 yr difference in ages..you've basically got a

generation between you.That might be exciting,invigorating at first but over the long haul?

 

At any rate, I date people who interest me, I suspect other people do the same. You don't want me because I'm older? that's your choice but don't expect me to beg forgiveness for growing older and don't expect me to buy into the notion that I've got to settle for any man who looks at me simply because I'm not 25 anymore.

 

The reason I disagree with this, is then because the woman will be a single mother. She will work a couple jobs? Have to find a man who will accept that she has 2 kids? All much more difficult.

 

It is always much easier for men to walk away and start a new life, with a new woman, because 9 times out of 10 the woman keeps the kids..

 

I never understood why some girls like men much older, but they do. If 50% of all marriages end in divorce, I never saw a stat that illustrated over 50% of these older man/ younger woman marriages ended in divorce. I actually believe less than 50% do.. It is when the man is under 25 and married that divorce is extremely common.

[Jersey Shortie]

t's really getting ridiculous...

 

No. it's not ridiculous in the slightest. You want to make women the losers everytime!

 

You're basic message is "men are better". You clearly think men are better then women. So you win Vonerick. Men are better human beings and more deserving of a life with love and a family then women. Maybe that makes you feel good or more like a "man", I really don't know. I just know that you clearly think men are better. You don't even need to answer that for me to know the truth in your responses.

 

I am not talking about having unhealthy children.. That can happen to someone at any age, unfortunately.

 

It certainly can, but when it comes to age the truth still remains that there are increased risk for both genders. If you think the increased risk comes more from the female gender then you need to be consistant and any wonderful qualities the child has also comes from the female gender and not men.

 

You have ignored my questions and I would like you to answer them instead of dancing around them. Why do you make the faulty mistake of assuming that men don't have wear and tear with age just like women? Do men not get wrinkles? Do men not get other age related dieases? Do men not slow down with age and do men not have the same human issue of their bodies breaking down with age? Why would you assume that a man's sexual body parts remain the same quality they were in his 20s? That makes no logical sense. And I think you know it.

 

Now I agree men are judged much less harshly for aging them women are. But if you want to continue treating women such as you are, go ahead. That's your business. But as a woman, it really hurts the way men seem to want to make women feel like they are less for the fact that they age just like men do. We are condemned and suppose to want to feel less feminine while we are suppose to build men up and tell them how much better then are in their advanced years but smile sweetly and told how much men are dissapointed in us or find us unvaluable anymore because we get older. I doubt you care overly much but you know what? Women like and enjoy having male affection and respect. And it looks like men just want to make us feel like less. So that should make you feel both better and superior.

 

But the stats in the article are not even significant..It does not give the large picture.. I am assuming this is for a reason...

 

As an example, it might say a 40 yr old male is 6 times more likely to have an autistic(something that nobody knows what causes, and something that is hard to even define) son than a male under 30...(What about a guy in his 30's?"

 

So, lets say it was 1 out of a 1000,, Now it is 6 out of a thousand..Yes, 6 times greater.. Still minimal.

 

No offense but I will believe doctors and researchers far more then I believe your faulty hypothetical statistics that prove 100% of nothing. There is nothing in that article that says a man's effect is insignificant. again, if you think a man's effect in making babies is minimal, then any good effects on the child has nothing to do with the male as well. If it takes two people to make a child, why do you assume that only the woman is responsible for the negative? A fair question.

 

You want to keep on believing the fantasy you want to keep on believing because it threatens your own masculinity. Yet you go on feeling good slamming women for their feminity. What kind of man does that? You are completely destroying my faith in the male gender.

 

The reason I disagree with this, is then because the woman will be a single mother. She will work a couple jobs? Have to find a man who will accept that she has 2 kids? All much more difficult.

 

Wow, now you want to berate single mothers? Women are just the ultimate losers to you apparently unless they are in Girls Gone Wild.

 

I never saw a stat that illustrated over 50% of these older man/ younger woman marriages ended in divorce. I actually believe less than 50% do..

 

That's because all the stats you see are made up out of your head.

[soserious1]

As far as divorce and children, I think dating can be more difficult for BOTH sexes or it should be if they're putting their focus where it belongs, on the needs of the children. In general I think it's easier if you have only 1-2 children and if the divorce was civil enough that there aren't ongoing fights and drama's from the EX.

 

My 57 yr old workmate? his youngest child is 3, this man is going to paying child support into his 70's, his pension was gutted once by his 1st divorce and will be totally ravaged by the upcoming second divorce,not to mention the portion of CC debt that he will be deemed responsible for.What little free time he has is spent ferrying children about.

 

Von's logic dictates that younger men are of course rejecting me rightly because they want children and I'm too old to have them but he objects when I dare to reject a man older than myself because he is not in the same place in life as I am.By Von's way of thinking I should be chomping at the bit to date this guy, eager to spend my money supporting him, grateful for the chance to spend my leisure time providing free childcare for his children..putting aside all of my own needs,wants and desires in favor of his because after all I'm an older woman

and should be grateful that this guy even looks at me.

 

Sorry but I disagree.

[grogster]

I've never said anything of the sort.

 

 

If we want to look at long term partnerships and we're considering nature, we must also look at the fact that men on average die younger than women do. From that perspective an older woman who's in good health choosing to marry a man 5-7 yrs her junior will be reducing the chances that she's going to be widow and/or reducing the number of years she spends alone before she dies after her husband has passed away.

 

I don't know many women who have married men more than 10 yrs their junior. I do know several guys who've married much younger partners and there's a little nugget to also be factored in here.

 

Many of those much younger women change as they mature, that lovestuck 25 yr old who thought the 41 yr old man was a god when she married him, may very easily dump him once she hits 35..often after a kid or two, then he's 51 or so,paying support for those kids and often still paying college bills for children of a first marriage.There's one of those guys at my job now..57 yrs old, 2nd marriage.. wife in her early 40's, he alternates sleeping on his sister's sofa and in his car in our work's parking garage.. the reason? he works a million hours a week and still can't afford a place to live and the combined support obligations for 5 children.

 

I think that when you go more than a decade younger then you are increasing your chances that it isn't going to work out for the rest of your lifetime.. and that goes for both men and women.

 

There is something very important, very central to a life bond that involves being with someone who comes from relatively the same place and same time as you do. Once you reach a 15 yr difference in ages..you've basically got a

generation between you.That might be exciting,invigorating at first but over the long haul?

 

At any rate, I date people who interest me, I suspect other people do the same. You don't want me because I'm older? that's your choice but don't expect me to beg forgiveness for growing older and don't expect me to buy into the notion that I've got to settle for any man who looks at me simply because I'm not 25 anymore.

 

 

Excellent points, soserious. As a divorced middle-aged guy I've avoided dating substantially younger women for the reasons you give. I don't want to be changing diapers at 57. Been there, done that.

 

I too know of 50-something guys who are on their second or third families. These silly shlubs are raising their trophy wives' kids. No sex or arm candy is that good.

 

I prefer women in my age cohort who no longer yearn for the pitter-patter of little feet.

[soserious1]

Excellent points, soserious. As a divorced middle-aged guy I've avoided dating substantially younger women for the reasons you give. I don't want to be changing diapers at 57. Been there, done that.

 

I too know of 50-something guys who are on their second or third families. These silly shlubs are raising their trophy wives' kids. No sex or arm candy is that good.

 

I prefer women in my age cohort who no longer yearn for the pitter-patter of little feet.

 

 

 

I think a lot of what Von has been saying makes sense but from a different vantage point.

 

Once you hit ages 45-50 or so the dating pool narrows,people start succumbing to heart attacks or cancer, many potentially good partners are already married/living with someone. You're left to choose from the much smaller pool of candidates than you had to pick from when you were 20.

 

From what I can see the biggest decision, the greatest divide for those dating at mid-life is the issue of children.

 

Do you want your own bio children or would you be willing/able to have one to please a younger partner? if so your pool of eligible's widens again

 

If you cannot have bio children or do not wish to start over with a new baby are you willing to take on the obligations associated with marrying somebody who has children from a previous relationship? if the answer is yes, then for you the pool also widens.

 

Then there's the last group.. middle aged folks who cannot have/don't want to have bio kids and who aren't keen on signing up to be step-parents. Our pool remains smaller.

 

I say that just because my pool of potential partners is smaller doesn't mean that they are not men out there who would make great matches for me. I know there are guys out there, who like me, love their kids but are glad their days of actively parenting are over, guys who want to enjoy some child free living and have retirements focused on doing new things or getting back into hobbies/interests that had to be put on the back burner earlier.

 

I know those guys are out there and they're worth looking for ! "Settling" on someone who's life goals and objectives are totally different than mine does a huge disservice to us both and is utterly demeaning imho.

I also know that though my pool of candiates is smaller and competition is keener, that I enhance my chances

by watching my weight, by exercising and keeping myself well groomed and that I also carry a distinctive edge in that though my marriage failed, I actually enjoy the company of men, I get bonus points for liking to laugh and not taking small things too seriously,I also boost my odds by being willing to sriously consider men ranging in age from 7- yrs my juinor to 7 yrs my senior. add in even more bonus points for my being employed in a stable career, for not having CC debt and I think my chances are pretty good !

[Shygirl15]

Why are you trying to overemphasize your point? People think she looks younger, it makes her feel better, leave her alone. Lot's of people look young for their age, get over it.

 

You are absolutely right; lots of people THINK they look young for their age.

 

I think it is insulting to actual 30 yr old females, when obviously older looking women keep saying they look the younger womans age.. In a way it is saying the 30 yr old can pass for a 45 yr old woman, which is not so nice to hear either.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought when I was reading through this thread.

 

Rooster, sweetheart, I don't think you fully captured his point but..oh, well..

[Balthazar]

Is it just me, or has this thread gone wildly off-topic?

[DMoon]

All I keep getting from this thread that as a woman in my thirties is that I am already past it for dating and relationships. That I am used up depreciating asset that is not worth any further consideration. There was a brouhaha about this very term and how women no matter what assets they may garner or nor more worth their fertility and ability to be physically attractive to men. That’s it http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/the-economics-of-gold-digging/

 

Life expectancy for women in America are upwards towards 80, thus if I never get married, then I should join a nunnery or endure the scorn and mind-numbing contempt from men and younger women like Victorian times for getting old, more wrinkly, ugly and a perpetual spinster and crazy cat lady. Men’s options only increase as they get older but women are just shriveled up husks that should be shot by the time they are 30 if they are not married or don’t look like Catherine Zeta-Jones or Monica Bellucci.

 

Ok I get it. I saw a nice cat in the pet store while I was shopping for my dog. So the only thing left to do since I am used goods is to hurry up and get artificially inseminated if I am lucky since I have old eggs and birth defects increase exponentially for a woman after the age of 35. And if that doesn’t work there is always adoption for single woman therefore effectively pricing myself out of the market because no man wants a woman with children unless she’s decent sex partner and is physically palatable to look at and is useful until something better younger, and hotter comes along. And if that doesn’t work there is always lesbianism.

[stillafool]

Hmmmm, I don't understand why a young, fertile woman would want an old man with old sperm to father her young. Oh yeah, the money, I forgot!

[Shygirl15]

Hmmmm, I don't understand why a young, fertile woman would want an old man with old sperm to father her young. Oh yeah, the money, I forgot!

 

Maturity, wisdom, security.

[stillafool]

You are absolutely right; lots of people THINK they look young for their age.

 

 

 

 

 

Rooster, sweetheart, I don't think you fully captured his point but..oh, well..

 

 

Nothing against the OP, but Shygirl you are right it is amazing how many people think they look 20 years younger than they do and they do not!!! Even people who have had facelifts, butt lifts and all the rest - I can still tell they are their age. This whole concept that 40 is the new 20 is bullsh&&!

[Shygirl15]

Phewww.

 

Finally, someone who sees it the way I do.

[Jake Barnes]

People are in much better shape than they used to be, but their bones and internal organs still change at the same rate they always did which is why you can still kind of tell how old someone is by looking at them