Prenup! At what point do you reveal prenuptial interest?

[trust]

In my point of view, 'good faith' does not even allow for the possibility of a divorce occuring. When I am thinking about marriage I don't allow the thought of divorce to enter that same picture. It is not even an option for me. I don't want to think about the 'what ifs'. If I hear a 'what if we split' then I may just ask the man to see what its like that very moment and leave. Actually no, that would be harsh and impulsive, but I would be dissappointed that he could even picture a life without me.

 

If I ever were to compromise my ideals and sign one, I almost think that it would make it all too easy for us to call it quits because the consequences for dissolving our vows would be much less severe. (Hollywood knows this). A prenup protects an individual. It does not protect the marriage. I wouldn't proclaim that it harms a marriage, but it certainly does not protect it.

 

Love is a universal concept and marriage may be as well. But prenups only exist where lawyers do.

 

I don't begrudge anyone for their difference of opinion. I hope that everyone finds a partner who sees eye to eye with them on such an important matter and go off and live happily ever after without the subject ever having to come up. That's what true love is -- its finding that very special someone who is right for you and living happily ever after with him/her.

 

As I read this post... I had to remind myself that my goal here is *not* to argue with you, warn you, or persuade you to a more safe approach, but simply just to find out why you do what you do concerning prenups. So...as much as it hurts me to bite my tongue.....I'm going to refrain.

 

All very interesting. Please see my last post though. I have more questions for you in that post. Also, do you mind giving me an approximate age? And are you born/raised in the USA? Thanks.

[trust]

 

I don't begrudge anyone for their difference of opinion. I hope that everyone finds a partner who sees eye to eye with them on such an important matter and go off and live happily ever after without the subject ever having to come up. That's what true love is -- its finding that very special someone who is right for you and living happily ever after with him/her.

 

bite tongue...bite tongue...Speckles, if I were to respond to much of what you said, I would hope that you wouldn't see it as a "begrudge" or an attack, or me trying to be the boss of you, or me trying to tell you what to believe, or me trying to say that you are dumb, hating on you, popping your bubble, or me designating myself as an authority figure, or high horsing, or anything like that... I simply only CARE about you.. that's hard to get across here on a forum. My tone is hard to get but I swear, I just care. Sometimes too much. Thanks again for the info.

[Woggle]

The women who preach about love and commitment and use them as the reason why they won't sign a prenup are the same ones that will walk out at the drop of a dime. A man should never fall for this game because if a woman truly is trustworthy she will have no issue giving you that piece of mind in writing. Beware any woman that does not believe in prenups. A woman's word means nothing so get it in writing.

[Calisto]

I have met several guys who are not cynical like you and state outright that they do not believe in prenuptial agreements.

[Calisto]

In your case it was a matter of you earning the money after you were married, you didn't have that as an asset before. Since during the marriage, you are both considered a "team" the assets you earn while married are considered both of yours.

Divorces are no-fault....because it can't be proven that you didn't cheat also, and if she had a lower paying job or stayed at home, she still contributed to the "marriage."

It sounds like you are back on your feet, I am curious to see what you consider going from "rich" to "poor" cause I doubt you were truly poor just because of the divorce. In any case you were a "team" and cheater or not, she was one half of your married "team" so she should get half of your assets you earned while married. She was earning her graduate degree so it's not her fault she wasn't amassing a fortune at the same time. if you had stayed married, the graduate degree would have helped her get a higher paying job.

Anyway it's just money, you just have to move on and get over it.

[Woggle]

I have met several guys who are not cynical like you and state outright that they do not believe in prenuptial agreements.

 

They will when their wife turns on them and they have no protection.

[Calisto]

I don't know, I don't see marriage as a business arrangment. Most people getting married don't have that much to begin with anyway and if you don't know your partner well enough to know that he/she could be a golddigger, then you shouldn't be getting married. There aren't so many people like that as you would like to believe.

Although online dating, I have gotten a lot of responses from lowlife losers who hardly make anything because my salary is pretty decent so I think they are looking at my profile and saying "Sugar mama!" lol

[Woggle]

No matter how well a man knows a woman she can turn on him in a heartbeat and a woman with resentment in her heart for whatever reason can't be reasoned with. This is why men need that legal protection against a woman with a vendetta. A preunup is one of those things that you would rather have and not need than need and not have. If my wife never turns on me I will be lucky but if she does I know that I have a legal leg up to get me out of the marriage in one piece.

[Got it]

Oh. Ok. Wow. So you anticipate that it *might* happen. I'm glad you can at least *fathom* the possibility. It's just naive to think nothing will ever happen to you. Good for you. But you say you think that way because of an unhealthy childhood? Interesting.....

 

As I said in a previous post, it's usually the experience that changes one's mind on divorce. I see that is the case here as well.

Yes. Ok. About the boat....for the non-assets (like the boat) things get a bit tricky. First of all, it's depreciating. You may file joint on your taxes. If you do you are both taking a depreciation. Not only on that liability but others. When the finances are intermingled, things get very complicated when you own a lot of stuff. At the end of the day, you will be pissed when all of those unforeseen details start adding up.

 

As for the breadwinner not getting free rein....hmmmmm.....that's a really tough one there... I don't have any answers...I suppose you would have to setup a system that sounds fair. I'd be open to hear any systems folks have set up in their marriage. But since I am dead set on the prenup, it only allows for ABSOLUTE separate accounts. EVERYTHING that has monetary value is separate.

 

For those who are interested, I had a system that worked well for me and my ex-wife(non prenup marriage). We had what was called a 2-vote rule. If the to-be purchased item was above $50 dollars, we had to consult the other for a second vote in order to continue with the purchase. Don't laugh! It worked for the most part. If she wanted to blow $80 on a pair of shoes, she had to call me and get my vote. And vice versa. This had it's pros and cons. It promoted good behavior because she new that if I was pissed at her, she would not likely get my vote. The con though is that the person who doesn't really tend to be a "spender" ends up being resented. At the time, I wasn't high maintainence. I was focused on building a mansion in an upscale neighborhood so that I could raise my future kids with the best life had to offer. I didn't want my future kids to have any excuses to not succeed. I came from a poor family so it was tough for me growing up. I want better for my future children and so I don't see anything wrong with that. Nothing is a guarantee, this I know, I was only trying to up the odds. Since I was so focused on not spending money on myself, I spent it on "us." Unfortunately, that came back and bit me when she filed for divorce and what should have been "me" money turned in to "we" money and I lost big time on that deal. Nearly a half million dollars. And I had to sell the mansion that I had just built in order to give her such a large pay out. That was pretty good for a girl who was 26 years old. And especially good considering we live in the South; a place where you get a lot of square footage for your dollar. But I digress.

 

Exactly. Sometimes I wonder, as I debate whether to tell these girls I date, that I have money (show them that I am a secure person to attach to) or if I should keep quiet (risk being seen as someone who is not a provider). It's a bit of a catch 22.

 

You say you never want to be dependent on someone else....ahhhhh....I've heard that before. I even supported my wife on that one. I completely supported her on getting her doctorate degree. Even paid for it. I wanted to make sure she wasn't with me because she "had" to be. I don't know what the hell I was thinking with that deal. As she gained her confidence, she saw she could easily get by without me with her career plus her divorce cash out. Not sure even in hind sight if that was a good idea.

 

Ooooohh......hmmmmmm... equality... I wouldn't touch that topic with a ten foot pole.

 

Great information. I am type A and so was my ex. I will admit that I was a bit more of a control freak than she. I'm not sure I follow you on "respect" equates to no surprises. Maybe you can explain that one. That sounds more like "spin" to me. I do that too. Wanna hear how I introduce the topic of prenup? Since it has such a stigma attached to it, I renamed it. I call it the "together forever agreement." Sounds better, dontcha think?

 

My comment about my childhood was a bit tongue in cheek. My childhood was fine but what I learned was not staying in a marriage for 25 years when you are just not compadible. It doesn't do the children any good and it just makes the parents bitter. I refuse to martyr myself for the same reasons but I do take marriage seriously. B/c I take it seriously I take all aspects of it that way which includes the possible demise of it. Thusly the prenup.

 

The boat was just an example, I guess for me in real life, I own multiple horses and other accoutrements. They are mine in entirety and I do not plan on walking out with anything less from the marriage. If I come into it with said assets then I don't see why I can't leave (if they are still remaining as different horses have gone up for sale at different times). The truck, trailer, etc are in my name and will stay in my name alone.

 

I also plan on keeping most financial aspects separate. There is no reason for shared accounts, etc. Yes there could be the possibility of shared assets like a house or such and that would need to be split then.

 

My father is in a similar situation as you. He is 59 and dating. He has substantial wealth now and is having to look at who is dating him and why. Though at this point he is okay with the money hungry 20ish year old who is working her tail off to convince him she is really just head over heels. But he has no delusions of granduer on what these womens' motives are and is just dating for fun. I am happy for him and his stories are becoming quite comedic.

 

Ah, but when I say not dependent I mean that there is no way I would allow "you" to pay for my schooling etc. I am serious, if I want it I either get my company to cover it or pay for it myself. I do not want to be indebted to someone. Period. Nor do I need to. I don't have children and not sure how that would factor in but can not see me being a stay at home. I would much rather have my significant other do that or have a nanny.

 

One comment, if your wife could see that she could "do better" with her doctorate and her divorce money then I would speculate that your relationship wasn't as connected as would have been "good". Correct? Could you have spent so much time trying to achieve things that the focus wasn't on the relationship and the nuturing of it and rather external forces/issues.

 

Anyway live and learn. I'm sure you have learned some good lessons from your marriage, saw some things that you can improve upon, saw the good and the bad of your wife, the marriage, and togetherness, and will take these lessons to heart. The right person, though may disagree with you on this, will be willing to hear out the argument and argue the logic, or lack there of, of it.

[trust]

The women who preach about love and commitment and use them as the reason why they won't sign a prenup are the same ones that will walk out at the drop of a dime. A man should never fall for this game because if a woman truly is trustworthy she will have no issue giving you that piece of mind in writing. Beware any woman that does not believe in prenups. A woman's word means nothing so get it in writing.

 

LOL Amen brother. Amen. I was there dude. And I said EVERYTHING that speckles said. I slammed people on prenups every chance I got. My how a little thing like experience will change an opinion.

 

I'm curious, would the same folks who are against prenups get marriage insurance? Just trying to find something that is borderline prenup...to find out where their "line of crossover" is.

[trust]

I have met several guys who are not cynical like you and state outright that they do not believe in prenuptial agreements.

 

Analagy: A famous and very sexy girl gets raped in her own home. She later decides to get a really nice home alarm system, the best money can buy. Does it make sense to tell her she's being cynical?

 

To answer your statement directly: I have met several guys who are not "cynical like me" and state outright that they *do* believe in prenuptial agreements. So where does that leave us, Calisto?

 

P.S. I was one of those guys. Instead of slapping someone with the cynicism card, I would appreciate it more if you could explain yourself a little more.

[Woggle]

Many men don't believe in prenups but many men will wish they did at some point in their life. I think of the divorce bomb as a missile and the marriage as a plane. A prenup is like an ejector seat that can safely eject a man from a marriage when she fires that missile.

[melodymatters]

Ok, speaking of pre-nups, whats your opinion on this situation ?

 

My good male friend has been engaged for about a year. She has more money and assets. They talked about a pre nup when they first got engaged, and he agreed.

 

Now, the wedding is in 2 weeks, and she just brought it up again. he is really busy with his business and is a little pissed and hurt, thinking she's trying to "slip" it in. He's saying " I'm way too busy and way too broke to get my own lawyer and do this now, so lets pospone the wedding".

 

Opinions ?

[Woggle]

He should sign the prenup but in reality she is much less at risk than a man would be.

[trust]

In your case it was a matter of you earning the money after you were married, you didn't have that as an asset before. Since during the marriage, you are both considered a "team" the assets you earn while married are considered both of yours.

Divorces are no-fault....because it can't be proven that you didn't cheat

False. It could be proven, but that's not the point of the no-fault. No-fault was pushed, in part, by the feminist movement. The courts in some states later adopted it because they believed it would take some strain off of an already strained court system, because divorce rates have been on the rise (won't go into why..there are many variables). I can't say that I blame them (trying the no fault stuff) but "no-faulting" aka "supposed path of least resistance" was probably not the lessor of two evils. The courts that chose to add the no-fault laws didn't only do it because of the growing rise of voters and supporters of the feminist movement, no, there was something extra in it for them as well. The courts don't want to sit there and tie up a jury with all of your details about who did what, and who should get what. They just delegated handling all of those details down to the plaintiffs and defendants in a divorce. Guess where all of those details should now go? IN A PRENUP. But there's hope. I can change it back. The burden is now on me - to get a prenup.

 

also, and if she had a lower paying job or stayed at home, she still contributed to the "marriage."

And what's your point? I never said she didn't contribute. That's where a lot of this controversy is, in the details. She most certainly didn't contribute to the MONEY that she got 70% of. I had a six figure income at the start of my marriage when I started my business, and I have an even bigger six figure income now. What did she have to do with it? She didn't have 70% to do with it. Not even 10%.

 

It sounds like you are back on your feet, I am curious to see what you consider going from "rich" to "poor" cause I doubt you were truly poor just because of the divorce.

 

What's your point on doubting that I was truly "poor?" Who cares? You want me to drop down into what it means to be "poor" to me, what it means to be "poor" to you... and then duke out those differences? The detail there is not important. The bigger picture is. I just wanted to show that my networth went from a "huge" amount to an extremely "low" amount. I wasn't trying to build sympathy or anything like that. Sounds like you are taking this kinda personal in her defense. Maybe you didn't like something that I said? Who knows. I'm not sure if I'm getting through to you but I'll try.

 

In any case you were a "team" and cheater or not, she was one half of your married "team" so she should get half of your assets you earned while married. She was earning her graduate degree so it's not her fault she wasn't amassing a fortune at the same time. if you had stayed married, the graduate degree would have helped her get a higher paying job.

Wow. You've just showed me where you are on the emotional development scale. It's not that I don't want to do the work to show you how flawed those ideas are in the above paragraph, it's just that I believe I may very well be wasting my time with you. But I hear you.

 

I wasn't faulting her for getting her degree. *IF* we had stayed married is right where the problem is. WE DIDN'T. And *she* wanted out. *IF* she had gotten a higher paying job, and if we had stayed married, and if she had amassed at least some wealth, THEN it would have made sense for her to get "half." You're way off base here.

Anyway it's just money, you just have to move on and get over it.

Hahahaha *you* need to get over it. Sounds like you harbor a lot of resentment yet coming out of nowhere and for what reason? Don't even answer that.

 

I have moved on. I'm "not over" the courts being in favor of women in a divorce though, obviously because I am posting about prenups. Just money? LOL Easy for you to say. Hey, lets you and I start a partnership. I'll somehow find a way to legally take 75% and walk out the door. Turn around and tell me it's just money then. You'd be the first one at the attorney's office crying foul. And what would happen if you started a partnership with someone else? Repeat your same mistake? If you were wise you would "change the arrangement" of the agreement to prevent that from happening again, wouldn't you? Starting to sound like a prenup now?

 

Maybe it's best you show up as a "view" and not an actual post. I don't see where you have anything wise to add here. The only wisdom that is gotten is my schooling you, and personally, it's getting tiresome.

[trust]

I don't know, I don't see marriage as a business arrangment.

Yout don't see marriage as a business arrangment because you lack experience. And you are clearly somewhere around 23 years of age. It's more of a business arrangement when there's an actual business involved and lots of money.

Most people getting married don't have that much to begin with anyway and if you don't know your partner well enough to know that he/she could be a golddigger, then you shouldn't be getting married.

HAHAHAHA ohhhh...man....This is too easy...PEOPLE CHANGE. Sometimes they change for the worse. Again, you lack experience.

 

There aren't so many people like that as you would like to believe.

Oh thanks for the incredibly obvious statement. No one made that argument. If someone put a bullet in an empty six shooter revolver, spun the cylinder, then put it to his own head and pulled the trigger, yes he would have more non-bullets than bullets.

Although online dating, I have gotten a lot of responses from lowlife losers who hardly make anything because my salary is pretty decent so I think they are looking at my profile and saying "Sugar mama!" lol

 

sooooo....let's look at your own Causality example: I get a *lot* of responses from *lowlife* losers who hardly *make anything* because my salary is pretty decent, so I think they are looking at my profile and saying "Sugar mama!" DO YOU NOT REALIZE YOU'VE JUST SUPPORTED OUR POINT??

[Jersey Shortie]

I have mixed feelings about pre-nups. On one hand, I do understand why someone would want one "incase". Especially guys and how they do suffer more at the injustice of courts and divorces.

 

But on the other hand, if a man wanted me to sign a pre-nup, I would queston his opinion about me. It insinuates somewhat that you think the person that you love and loves you, could very possibly screw you over. And if we are starting off our marriage on such a defensive position, one where what his is his and what is mine is mine, I don't know if I would feel that we were really having an "union" where we were coming to together sharing ourselves and sharing what we have. Maybe it's just my idea of marriage but I think when you get married, you are suppose to share your assets and your feelings..your lives, on a whole new level then before. And with a pre-nup, it might always be a point of contention where each parties have to worry about what's theirs and what is the other person's. So while I understand wanting the insurance, I also see it having a breach in a relationship.

 

Originally Posted by Untouchable_Fire

It seems to me that if a woman really loved me... she would sign a prenup and put the money and assets out of the picture. If she doesn't... it shows that she has no trust in me, and that her interest in me is more about what I can provide than who I am.

A woman could very easily say that..."it seems to me that if a man really loved me...he wouldn't need me to sign a prenup and know that I am not marrying him for money and assets. If he doesn't, it shows that he has no trust in me, and that his interests lie in protecting his "stuff" over protecting "us" and the relationship. It shows that he has no trust in the person I am and already things the worst of me and that he cares about his things more then me"... you so see how that argument can work both ways don't you?

 

A man should never fall for this game because if a woman truly is trustworthy she will have no issue giving you that piece of mind in writing. Beware any woman that does not believe in prenups. A woman's word means nothing so get it in writing.

 

So when man tells us he loves us, is committed to us, isn't screwing around on us, We should get legal documentation for piece of mind because a man is only good as the legal documentation he has to back himself up. A man's word means nothing so get it in writing...After all if that's true for women, it's true for men... and it would seem that there is little trust on either side.

 

I do have to wonder what a man is doing marrying a woman that he thinks so negatively about that he thinks she will screw him over.

[blind_otter]

I do have to wonder what a man is doing marrying a woman that he thinks so negatively about that he thinks she will screw him over.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you probably haven't been married and gone through a divorce.

 

I think the split here is mostly - those who have been divorced support pre-nups. Those who haven't think negatively about pre-nups and think it's about being defensive and thinking the worst of their partner.

 

Truth is, when you go through a divorce you realize things you can never understand UNTIL you go through a divorce - divorce brings out the worst in people, most of the time. I can count on one hand the number of amicable divorces I've witnessed.

 

If you think that people stay the same over the course of 10, 20, 50 years - then you are naieve and inexperienced. People can and do change.

 

So, knowing that people change, and that divorce brings out the worst in people....well it only makes sense to protect your assets. And in an age when more than half of marriages end in divorce, you'd have to be stupid not to.

[carhill]

OP, my opinion would be to discuss it at the point where you are considering getting engaged (assuming a typical engagement period). The better represented the parties are and the more arms-length the agreement is, the better it will stand up in court.

 

That said, you will have to weigh the potential legal and emotional costs of enforcing the prenuptial agreement, which will place additional burdens on the divorce process. They can and are contested and can be overruled by the court. I looked at this and decided to use other legal means to protect certain assets essential to my livelihood, as I don't have a large income or amassed wealth to protect or children to distribute it to unfettered.

 

All I will say in regards to the interpersonal relationship dynamic is that people can and do change and history is often re-written to match current reality and psychology. This is true for both men and women. None of us is without responsibility.

 

Hope things work out for you. Early and honest are my last words

[Jersey Shortie]

No one is saying that people don't change. And while I do understand why someone would want a pre-nup, it would still sit with me that we woudln't be staring our marriage as a partnership but more of him being concerned about his *things* and me being concerned with *mine*.

 

But I completely disagree with the conditional... "if you loved me you would sign/not ask me to sign a pre nup.." that's ridiculous manipulation either way.

[carhill]

I was responding strictly to the OP without consideration for the interceding postings, which I have not read. I should've quoted the OP. Sorry about that.

[trust]

JS: Welcome. From what I've heard from you, more often than not, you have something pretty good to add, whether I liked what you had to say or not. I moved from that battle in "that other thread" to spend some time on myself here. Didn't mean to leave you hanging.

 

I have mixed feelings about pre-nups. On one hand, I do understand why someone would want one "incase". Especially guys and how they do suffer more at the injustice of courts and divorces.

Exactly. Same here. I can agree with most of what's on most of each side of the equation. But the scale will have to be tipped somewhere.

 

But on the other hand, if a man wanted me to sign a pre-nup, I would queston his opinion about me.

Great. This is one reason why I stared this thread. I want to look at objections. Since this was a common one that I have heard from many girls, I can add a little something here. Since this prenup was a result of a divorce (I guess this would be considered baggage) and was conceived and born prior to even meeting the girl, then it's less to do with you, right? Although I can understand how you would feel as a result, it still wasn't because of *you*. Yet, it still applies to you. I'll explain more below.

 

It insinuates somewhat that you think the person that you love and loves you, could very possibly screw you over.

Yeah, that's exactly what I am insinuating, but I'm not FOCUSED on that. This is a very important detail here. It has less to do with her personally, more to do with a *possibility*. There is at least one thing that is a constant in a marriage - CHANGE. Are you telling me that you have never seen someone change from being "good" to "really bad?" So bad that that person breaks their vows again and again and again? And if you were the one who changed to "bad", why should I reward you for your bad behavior? Am I making sense?

 

And if we are starting off our marriage on such a defensive position, one where what his is his and what is mine is mine, I don't know if I would feel that we were really having an "union" where we were coming to together sharing ourselves and sharing what we have. Maybe it's just my idea of marriage but I think when you get married, you are suppose to share your assets and your feelings..your lives, on a whole new level then before. And with a pre-nup, it might always be a point of contention where each parties have to worry about what's theirs and what is the other person's. So while I understand wanting the insurance, I also see it having a breach in a relationship.

And that makes perfect sense to me. You are now talking about how *you feel* as a result. Just because you feel, at least right now, negatively about it, doesn't mean it's not an over all good thing. Heck, I don't feel like going to the gym today, but I'm going to do it anyway. So then will you now switch the focus on who benefits from it? That's what I would do if I were you. And I have that objection addressed too.

 

I want you to think about something, no matter how you slice up your belongings during marriage, when you are in your *union*, it's still *ours.* Only in the event of a divorce, will the division be "realized" (that's a tax term I'm using there...meaning there's no action/split until some future event). So really, keeping the things split during marriage is just logistics. You should only feel that way if the event happens (divorce) that you say won't happen at all. So why feel that way now? Feel that way later. Are you following me? Also, I never went into the details of the prenup. So when/if your points go there...I have something else to tell you.

 

A woman could very easily say that..."it seems to me that if a man really loved me...he wouldn't need me to sign a prenup and know that I am not marrying him for money and assets. If he doesn't, it shows that he has no trust in me, and that his interests lie in protecting his "stuff" over protecting "us" and the relationship. It shows that he has no trust in the person I am and already things the worst of me and that he cares about his things more then me"... you so see how that argument can work both ways don't you?

HAHAHAHA I new that was coming! That's why I never made that counter argument to begin with. That was a rookie mistake by the person who made that comment.

 

 

So when man tells us he loves us, is committed to us, isn't screwing around on us, We should get legal documentation for piece of mind because a man is only good as the legal documentation he has to back himself up. A man's word means nothing so get it in writing...After all if that's true for women, it's true for men... and it would seem that there is little trust on either side.

Deal! I'll sign it. Now would you sign my prenup? Is that what this comes down to? Some sort of compromise? You feel it's unfair, now you suggest a contract? Careful, you are starting to look like a prenup supporter.

 

When you are dealing with money, especially in a marriage where there's lots of it, it must be dealt with. The *union* laws already deal with it. The prenup is an attempt to sort of undo the crappy no-fault law. Please see my previous post about why I feel the prenup was DELEGATED down to me by the courts.

 

I do have to wonder what a man is doing marrying a woman that he thinks so negatively about that he thinks she will screw him over.

I'm kind of surprised to hear that from you JS. And in hopes that repetition may get through to you I'm going to do a cut and paste: There is at least one thing that is a constant in a marriage - CHANGE. Are you telling me that you have never seen someone change from being "good" to "really bad?" So bad that that person breaks their vows again and again and again? And if you were the one who changed to "bad", why should I reward you for your bad behavior? Am I making sense?

 

Great discussion. Seriously. Thanks JS. I do value what you have to say.

[trust]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you probably haven't been married and gone through a divorce.

and for those it's probably best you do more listening than talking.. this is a big boy discussion.

I think the split here is mostly - those who have been divorced support pre-nups. Those who haven't think negatively about pre-nups and think it's about being defensive and thinking the worst of their partner.

Yes. It's a relief someone is getting it.

Truth is, when you go through a divorce you realize things you can never understand UNTIL you go through a divorce - divorce brings out the worst in people, most of the time. I can count on one hand the number of amicable divorces I've witnessed.

EXACTLY. And I can count on one finger how many divorces I saw end up amicably. And you know what? I couldn't figure it out. For many years, I always used that divorce as an example of "sometimes divorce doesn't end so bad" because I don't want to come off sounding cynical, right? This girl didn't take any part of my friend's business in the uncontested divorce. I mean, what? He is the sole owner of a multi-million dollar paint and body shop. She didn't force him to sell it?? (for you inexperienced folks out there... when you divorce, and split things up, you gather up all of your assets and come up with a number. Hopefully it's a positive number, otherwise you are both leaving with debt. If you have a positive number, you've got to split that. Even if it means selling everything you have.) So, I don't want to get all bogged down in the numbers, but she walked with only the car. The car?! Really? Wow. That was nice of her. I always thought of her as some sort of saint. What I recently found out was during their marriage SHE DEVELOPED AN ILLEGAL DRUG ADDICTION. He didn't. (and it was no coincidence that I found out more than 5 years later...just so happens that's the statute of limitations for that crime) Guess what he did in that divorce? He used her drug addiction as leverage to keep his business. The last thing in the world she wanted was that to come out in a public divorce battle and loose COMPLETE custody of her kids. So, the moral of the story is, things aren't always as they seem. People change... people do stupid things every day...some stupid things have life changing consequences... if my wife makes some stupid decision, I don't want her taking me down with it. Is this making sense now?

 

If you think that people stay the same over the course of 10, 20, 50 years - then you are naieve and inexperienced. People can and do change.

 

So, knowing that people change, and that divorce brings out the worst in people....well it only makes sense to protect your assets. And in an age when more than half of marriages end in divorce, you'd have to be stupid not to.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Calisto]

 

One comment, if your wife could see that she could "do better" with her doctorate and her divorce money then I would speculate that your relationship wasn't as connected as would have been "good". Correct? Could you have spent so much time trying to achieve things that the focus wasn't on the relationship and the nuturing of it and rather external forces/issues.

 

Hey I am not excusing this woman for cheating and her behavior but to dis her for wanting a higher degree is not level. Wanting to better yourself is never a bad thing.

[Calisto]

You are just bitter, OP, and in the end, yes, it is just money, it is not like your kid died or anything.

It is true that when you are together, you are married, and what's his is hers and vice versa. There's no way to prove that you completely amassed the "fortune" by yourself, either, because you were a team (married.) So the courts see it as you were a team, you earned it together and I kind of agree with that.

 

How am I the one resentful for saying "it's just money." You are the one who is resenting material things and you have already stated that you will have no trouble earning it back.

 

 

That said, we can end this by saying that prenups are personal choices. A prenup really wouldn't have helped you anyway.