surfcitysiren Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 book sounds good...thanks for the recommendation. wow. NO, dear...the book is AWESOME. Run right out and buy yourself a copy NOW!!! Talk about empowering! It's NOT about being a 'bitch' in the normal sense we think of bitches (negative). It's about being soft and sweet on the inside and tough as nails on the inside.....like a sweet peach...or a 'Steel Magnolia'. It's NOT about mistreating men. It's about understanding them and responding accordingly in ways that don't wind us up posting...here. I need to read it again!!!! I swear, it'll fix your head! Why Men Love Bitches- By Sherry Argov GET IT!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
LuCidiTy Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 hmmmm i think that sorta kinda describes me already, but as i said before, self-awarenesss is hard, so i'm sure it will give some good insight. i'm stopping at B&N on the way home!!! thanks again! Link to post Share on other sites
surfcitysiren Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Yes, from your posts it *does* sound like you. However....you may be doing subtle things that send messages that run contrary to how you believe you present yourself. (I'm a strong woman too, and believe me, I know what you are saying but I discovered little ways that have revealed chinks in my armor that surprised even me). And the truth is no matter what we do there is always going to be a percentage of men that are crap and not worthy. Nothing to be done about them but to recognize them for what they are and steer clear to begin with. The book just helps winnow them out quicker. Then if one finds themselves drawn to these less than worthy types of men, the question has got to be why? I personally have never been the type to be drawn to jerks or players so this was a new one for me--but I deserved exactly what I got for engaging in an EA to start with...and a LD one on top of that---and YES I knew it was STUPID/wrong/impossible/doomed from the beginning, so one would naturally question my sanity---I've questioned it myself to be honest. So I've gotten EXACTLY what I deserve and don't expect empathy from anyone. But I was just looking for a friend when it started...not a lover. That it turned into that is regrettable now that my heart is shredded but I've brought it on myself. But ANYWAY, because I have not been treated like this and was not used to it, I was like....shocked. And then I was like, "Oh no, he didn't!" When it sunk in that he had, indeed, I sort of let him have it (told him to at least be a man about it and tell me, 'thanks, it's been fun, but it's run it's course now....see ya...." or "f of and leave me alone' even. SOMETHING. But that the cowardice was unacceptable). The first time he responded humbly and with genuine regret and HE TOLD ME WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON. And I believed him. Then it happened again and I AGAIN confronted him and told him I'm too old to play these little high school games with him....and he said, "I'm sorry...I have issues....I told you the truth about them earlier (and he had but I guess I didn't assign the proper 'weight' to them and made it about ME and MY feelings)...and that I didn't trust him and it was apparent to him that I thought he was a jerk and that he did not want to continue our relationship. Period. Then he blocked me on IM. I texted him, asked him to forgive me...told him I was falling for him and that I was just scared and that was why I flipped out when he pullled away from me right after we'd gotten so close...He texted back to say he was really sorry it had to end this way, that he was sorry he hurt me but that the distance was to hard on him. Then we were NC for almost two weeks and he texted me to say if I didn't hate him, he needed to talk to me and to please call him. I waited a bit (stunned) but DID call him back. No answer. Left message that sounded perky/upbeat and casual, like, "Oh well, called you back. Guess I'll talk to you later". NO ANSWER. No email. No nothing. I was and IDIOT (and upset for other reasons) and called him back 3 days later in case my message had misled him to think I was going to call him again. I know DUUUUUUUUUUUUUH! hello, dummy, HE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU or he would have contacted YOU! I know.....And I told him I am not going to chase him (he's probably laughing, thinking, "Yeah, right, lady!") and that if he is not careful he is going to lose me forever. And bye...... I hate games and I don't play them and I'm simply not used to game players. I guess I've been very lucky. But this dude has seriously thrown me for a loop. The problem is, I let him know it. It's for the best that it's over. I never wanted to care for him this way to start with, but I do. That I feel for him the way I do is my own misfortune. As I said, I've brought it on myself. Link to post Share on other sites
Walking away Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) book sounds good...thanks for the recommendation. wow. Get both of them: Why Men Love Bitches and Why Men Marry Bitches. Bought them both last year and I agree, they are, hands down, the best books out there for relationships. According to the books, I am a "bitch." The book just reinforced what I have always done. If my man had been NORMAL, I would have him eating out of the palm of my hand... Edited March 20, 2008 by Walking away Link to post Share on other sites
Walking away Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) No, dear, that's called being a MAN. Read "Why Men Love Bitches". Seriously the best book I've read in a long while. They will try to get away with as much as they can. Like a kid. It's like their job or something. LOL. When a man does not know for sure he has a hold on you, he won't leave for fear when he comes back you won't be there. Of course, that's a 'normal' man. But I believe it applies to all of them. Confounding creatures, the lot! But in a book about commitmentphobia (He's Scared, She's Scared), they explain that in these types of phobic relationships, that is when the man leaves the woman. For NORMAL relationships without commitment issues, I agree. Men act this way. They are like rubberbands. But normal men come back after distancing. And normal men want the relationship to progress, not digress. They don't disappear without a trace never to be seen again. Edited March 20, 2008 by Walking away Link to post Share on other sites
surfcitysiren Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Get both of them: Why Men Love Bitches and Why Men Marry Bitches. I am "that" woman. The book just reinforced what I have always done. If my man had been NORMAL, I would have him eating out of the palm of my hand... Right....me too (as far as my conduct up till now). My sich was over before it started so it's probably a bit differnent anyway, but.....whatever. It is what it is. And I think it's over. So *perhaps* then the question becomes about why you are drawn to men like this? (assuming this is not a one-time thing). If it were a pattern then it would bear investigation. If a one time thing, like my sich, then I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky, cut our losses and move on....you already know how to take care of yourself..... Good luck, sweets. I know it sucks in the meantime...I'm there too, even if I brought it on myself. It helps to be amoung 'friends' who understand. Link to post Share on other sites
Walking away Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Right....me too (as far as my conduct up till now). My sich was over before it started so it's probably a bit differnent anyway, but.....whatever. It is what it is. And I think it's over. So *perhaps* then the question becomes about why you are drawn to men like this? (assuming this is not a one-time thing). If it were a pattern then it would bear investigation. If a one time thing, like my sich, then I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky, cut our losses and move on....you already know how to take care of yourself..... Good luck, sweets. I know it sucks in the meantime...I'm there too, even if I brought it on myself. It helps to be amoung 'friends' who understand. I brought this on myself, too. I let my guy back in for a second shot after four months of not speaking. (Our contact just gradually slowed down until it stopped completely) I KNEW he had issues, but believed that if I maintained my independence and strength he would stick around. And he has. But he vascillates far too much for my comfort. You are going to be fine, too. You have the tools to move on as do all of us women.. We are "bitches." Link to post Share on other sites
surfcitysiren Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 But in a book about commitmentphobia (He's Scared, She's Scared), they explain that in these types of phobic relationships, that is when the man leaves the woman. For NORMAL relationships without commitment issues, I agree. Men act this way. They are like rubberbands. But normal men come back after distancing. And normal men want the relationship to progress, not digress. They don't disappear without a trace never to be seen again. ALL men will test to see how far they can push a woman and what she will put up with. ALL men want to keep their precious freedom, etc. The ones that just disappear and never return are one thing. The ones who love the cat and mouse BS (extended and to ridiculous proportions) have ISSUES. Personally, I would say they are immature little boys, NOT men. It's up to you whether you want to play the game, but I would say I would not expect to see an end to it in the near future with these types. That said, ALL men DO play the cat and mouse thing.....for a short time. They test your mettle and see if you can hold your own and can be trusted. But a mature, stable man who is emotionally available and ready for a real relationship will only do this for so long--and IME it usually is not hurtful---more like playful sparring, but nobody gets hurt. ALL men do this. But at some point either the relationships goes forward or it doesn't. Have you ever seen a cat play with a mouse? You know the cat fully intends to eat that mouse. So why the bloody hell doesn't he just get on with it and eat the mouse? Because then he'd have nothing to play with...... The moral of the story: Stay away from cats. Link to post Share on other sites
Walking away Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 ALL men will test to see how far they can push a woman and what she will put up with. ALL men want to keep their precious freedom, etc. The ones that just disappear and never return are one thing. The ones who love the cat and mouse BS (extended and to ridiculous proportions) have ISSUES. Personally, I would say they are immature little boys, NOT men. It's up to you whether you want to play the game, but I would say I would not expect to see an end to it in the near future with these types. That said, ALL men DO play the cat and mouse thing.....for a short time. They test your mettle and see if you can hold your own and can be trusted. But a mature, stable man who is emotionally available and ready for a real relationship will only do this for so long--and IME it usually is not hurtful---more like playful sparring, but nobody gets hurt. ALL men do this. But at some point either the relationships goes forward or it doesn't. Have you ever seen a cat play with a mouse? You know the cat fully intends to eat that mouse. So why the bloody hell doesn't he just get on with it and eat the mouse? Because then he'd have nothing to play with...... The moral of the story: Stay away from cats. And THAT, my friends, is exactly the way it falls out! I couldn't have said that better myself. Bitch or not....with men with ISSUES it doesn't matter. They are INCAPABLE of eating the mouse. Great analogy! Link to post Share on other sites
surfcitysiren Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Wouldn't it be a HOOT if we were all talking about the SAME GUY?! LOL!!!! (oh if only this world had fewer of these type!) LOL!!!! We'll survive them. Bastards! ; ) Link to post Share on other sites
surfcitysiren Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 And THAT, my friends, is exactly the way it falls out! I couldn't have said that better myself. Bitch or not....with men with ISSUES it doesn't matter. They are INCAPABLE of eating the mouse. Great analogy! EXACTLY! PRECISELY! UNDOUBTEDLY WITHOUT A DOUBT! LOL!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Walking away Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Tell me about it! You know what I say? I survived all these years before I met him. I am quite certain I will be able to survive AFTER him. I'm with you. We are ALREADY surviving! Link to post Share on other sites
Far Behind Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 "walking mentioned the part about you being there for his every crisis and them not being there for yours. if you want to call to see how his mom is doing, do it. wouldn't you do that for any friend? if he acts like a dork about it, well that's just one thing you can add to the Cons column in the list in your head." We have been in contact throughout today, and have plans to see each other tonight. The walking on eggshells thing is mine this time because I'm just so scared that he will disappear again, and I don't think I could take it (well I could, but who wants to go through that torment?)...When I talk to him I sound "normal" but I think it's going to be a while before I can fully trust him again, if ever. I know, too, that if I keep feeling like this I'm going to have to stop the whole thing because it won't be good for either of us. I know he hates drama and games, so hopefully we ARE moving in the right direction and at a more comfortable pace this time. Link to post Share on other sites
Walking away Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Keep your independence. Don't answer the phone everytime he calls. Don't be available every time. Keep things at YOUR pace. Let him come to you. I do this and even though he is distancing he always comes back. Guard your heart. Link to post Share on other sites
Far Behind Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Yes, from your posts it *does* sound like you. However....you may be doing subtle things that send messages that run contrary to how you believe you present yourself. (I'm a strong woman too, and believe me, I know what you are saying but I discovered little ways that have revealed chinks in my armor that surprised even me). And the truth is no matter what we do there is always going to be a percentage of men that are crap and not worthy. Nothing to be done about them but to recognize them for what they are and steer clear to begin with. The book just helps winnow them out quicker. Then if one finds themselves drawn to these less than worthy types of men, the question has got to be why? I personally have never been the type to be drawn to jerks or players so this was a new one for me--but I deserved exactly what I got for engaging in an EA to start with...and a LD one on top of that---and YES I knew it was STUPID/wrong/impossible/doomed from the beginning, so one would naturally question my sanity---I've questioned it myself to be honest. So I've gotten EXACTLY what I deserve and don't expect empathy from anyone. But I was just looking for a friend when it started...not a lover. That it turned into that is regrettable now that my heart is shredded but I've brought it on myself. But ANYWAY, because I have not been treated like this and was not used to it, I was like....shocked. And then I was like, "Oh no, he didn't!" When it sunk in that he had, indeed, I sort of let him have it (told him to at least be a man about it and tell me, 'thanks, it's been fun, but it's run it's course now....see ya...." or "f of and leave me alone' even. SOMETHING. But that the cowardice was unacceptable). The first time he responded humbly and with genuine regret and HE TOLD ME WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON. And I believed him. Then it happened again and I AGAIN confronted him and told him I'm too old to play these little high school games with him....and he said, "I'm sorry...I have issues....I told you the truth about them earlier (and he had but I guess I didn't assign the proper 'weight' to them and made it about ME and MY feelings)...and that I didn't trust him and it was apparent to him that I thought he was a jerk and that he did not want to continue our relationship. Period. Then he blocked me on IM. I texted him, asked him to forgive me...told him I was falling for him and that I was just scared and that was why I flipped out when he pullled away from me right after we'd gotten so close...He texted back to say he was really sorry it had to end this way, that he was sorry he hurt me but that the distance was to hard on him. Then we were NC for almost two weeks and he texted me to say if I didn't hate him, he needed to talk to me and to please call him. I waited a bit (stunned) but DID call him back. No answer. Left message that sounded perky/upbeat and casual, like, "Oh well, called you back. Guess I'll talk to you later". NO ANSWER. No email. No nothing. I was and IDIOT (and upset for other reasons) and called him back 3 days later in case my message had misled him to think I was going to call him again. I know DUUUUUUUUUUUUUH! hello, dummy, HE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU or he would have contacted YOU! I know.....And I told him I am not going to chase him (he's probably laughing, thinking, "Yeah, right, lady!") and that if he is not careful he is going to lose me forever. And bye...... I hate games and I don't play them and I'm simply not used to game players. I guess I've been very lucky. But this dude has seriously thrown me for a loop. The problem is, I let him know it. It's for the best that it's over. I never wanted to care for him this way to start with, but I do. That I feel for him the way I do is my own misfortune. As I said, I've brought it on myself. That totally describes my situation up until now. He disappeared in January then there was the limited email contact and one night in February. He did it again and I was STUNNED. Then I emailed him again trying to get answers, and he replied that everyday he was facing the void this had left in his life, and I thought, and wrote back, you created this void. But I also realized that he had feelings for me, too, and I believe still that they are real. I never thought he intentionally set out to hurt me or play me. Now, here we are, starting again...new, not over. I don't even feel like I can say anything to but a few close friends, won't even say anything to my family yet because the fear is too great, and the humiliation would be greater. Does that make sense? Link to post Share on other sites
Walking away Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Complete sense. Just maintain your boundaries. I have tried doing that. For me, I am tired of the back and forthing. It isn't worth it to me. But for you....I hope for the best. Have fun tonight! Link to post Share on other sites
LuCidiTy Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 ALL men will test to see how far they can push a woman and what she will put up with. ALL men want to keep their precious freedom, etc. The ones that just disappear and never return are one thing. The ones who love the cat and mouse BS (extended and to ridiculous proportions) have ISSUES. Personally, I would say they are immature little boys, NOT men. It's up to you whether you want to play the game, but I would say I would not expect to see an end to it in the near future with these types. That said, ALL men DO play the cat and mouse thing.....for a short time. They test your mettle and see if you can hold your own and can be trusted. But a mature, stable man who is emotionally available and ready for a real relationship will only do this for so long--and IME it usually is not hurtful---more like playful sparring, but nobody gets hurt. ALL men do this. But at some point either the relationships goes forward or it doesn't. Have you ever seen a cat play with a mouse? You know the cat fully intends to eat that mouse. So why the bloody hell doesn't he just get on with it and eat the mouse? Because then he'd have nothing to play with...... The moral of the story: Stay away from cats. yes! excellent! the other longer post i am saving to digest with wine tonight when i get home from work. wow. Link to post Share on other sites
LuCidiTy Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Wouldn't it be a HOOT if we were all talking about the SAME GUY?! LOL!!!! (oh if only this world had fewer of these type!) LOL!!!! We'll survive them. Bastards! ; ) O M G had that thought myself...and if that were true, i'd say hell with him, let's all go to the bar and have a drink! :laugh: Link to post Share on other sites
Far Behind Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Complete sense. Just maintain your boundaries. I have tried doing that. For me, I am tired of the back and forthing. It isn't worth it to me. But for you....I hope for the best. Have fun tonight! I won't be able to do any more of it...and I think that's where the egg shell thing comes from. All the words about going slow and heading in the right direction are his. I hope he means them, time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites
Walking away Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 I am keeping my fingers crossed for you! Link to post Share on other sites
surfcitysiren Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 O M G had that thought myself...and if that were true, i'd say hell with him, let's all go to the bar and have a drink! :laugh: well, did someone on here say her guy was British? Or was that on another thread someplace? Mine's Australian. Anyone? Anyone? LOL! Link to post Share on other sites
Walking away Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Nope! Mine is a good old fashioned Irishman! Ugggghhhh! Link to post Share on other sites
Far Behind Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Mine's from North Carolina! Link to post Share on other sites
lifestyle1 Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 he just is not that into you. and a creep to boot. I would be pissed that he was not answering a voicemail? text? email? He is trying to tell you he is not interested. He is not trying to say, wait for me while I suffer through my angst. Link to post Share on other sites
surfcitysiren Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Nope! Mine is a good old fashioned Irishman! Ugggghhhh! Och, thare, nah, missy! Doona be disrahspactin the Irish! It's right proud I am bein' Irish, meself! LOL!!!! I'm kidding. I'm very Irish, but that's beside the point! Link to post Share on other sites
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