Are extramarital affairs really that bad?

[Tomcat33]

Is it worth risking the family just for sex?

 

 

Shouldn't that question be asked to the cheater who is putting their family at risk, not the accomplice?

[Herzen]

Is it worth risking the family just for sex?

 

That's the $64,000 question. And a valid question it is, too. The only problem is that the two starry eyed, hormonally driven affair partners either don't ask that question or believe the benefits are worth the risk.

 

Affairs occur in a bubble where judgment, perception, and the rational part of the mind are all eclipsed by the pleasure centers.

 

Do only amoral people have affairs? No.

 

Can an affair make one amoral? Yes.

[Tomcat33]

 

Do only amoral people have affairs? No.

 

Can an affair make one amoral? Yes.

 

That is so true!!

[OldEurope]

Can you demonstrate that a god exists?

 

C'mon, this is a counseling forum for adults...Not a high school debating class. That "imaginary friend" as you say, by the way, is the cornerstone of far, far greater things in civilization than your own meager existence so let's curb the arrogance a bit. Besides, as I see it, it is not the religion that is flawed so much as it is the humans practicing it. So....A little humility please.

 

My affections for the women in my life are not contingent on exclusivity.

 

That itself speaks volumes....

I grew up in an era and an area where feminism blossomed into a viable movement.

 

Then you will admit that that movement also caused a lot of confusion and identity crises among women, of which my own generation (I am 37) has not yet recovered, nor the generation before it.

 

With one woman I had an eight year affair...When we began she was spending $200-300 a month on alcohol. It didn’t take long and she wasn’t drinking at all. She broke it off when her husband finally took a job where he would be home every night....She’s told me that she would have left him if I hadn’t been there when she was left alone.

 

A woman--or anyone--who has a drinking problem like this doesn't have a marriage problem she has a (huge) problem as an individual. Emotional neediness and low self esteem translate neither into good marriages nor good friendships nor a good life on one's own. So do not blame "marriage" in this case. And if the husband were gone months at a time as you say...she should have had the guts to leave such silliness with or without you. Affairs are still not the answer here...

 

Also, to an earlier point I believe you and Lizzie made about the fleetingness of love...For what it is worth, I can only add:Love has been eternal throughout the course of human history. My God, look what it has inspired in literature, poetry... I myself know people or know of people in their 80s, mid 80s who are as much in love as ever with the same person or who are widowed and still grieve the loss of their love. I also know of several couples where there has been total fidelity...And oddly enough, that being here in Europe, where everyone assumes marriage to be much more affair-tolerant. Perhaps that is the case, but the strongest, longest marriages--and the examples I know of monogamy-- I know of have been here. Just a thought.

[a4a]

Shouldn't that question be asked to the cheater who is putting their family at risk, not the accomplice?

 

If I drive the get away car during the bank robbery..... get the benefits of getting some of the stolen cash.......then get caught... am I innocent?

 

Did I not choose to harm others by participating in the robbery knowing it was wrong and harmed others?

 

(just a peep at the flip side)

 

Of course if you are not told you are driving the get away car..... yeah you are innocent..... not your problem as you did not know nor choose to do so.

[Woggle]

To me OW/OM are like people that pick a dead person's pockets. Sure they didn't kill the person but they profit off of misery which is just as bad.

[bish]

To me OW/OM are like people that pick a dead person's pockets. Sure they didn't kill the person but they profit off of misery which is just as bad.

 

LOL...that is the best way I have heard it put yet. And it is the dead on truth.

[EnigmaXOXO]

By some posters opinions the right thing to do would be to tell her husband. I think that you are all twisted.

 

I’m more disappointed that living an honest life seems an unobtainable and therefore twisted concept to some. Of course, that’s only because I couldn’t imagine how worrisome it must be to constantly look over your shoulder wondering when it’s all finally going to catch up to you.

 

Of course, if honesty is permitted (just this once) ... I must admit I find it quite presumptuous to assume that extramarital affairs are no big deal if you’re not the one who’s actually married. Or you’re not the other half of the marital equation who hasn’t been given the opportunity to share their perspective because certain truths about your life have been deliberately hidden from you.

 

I’d be more inclined to place more weight on the betrayed spouse’s opinion as to whether or not the extramarital affair is no big deal. I suspect it might be a bigger deal to them than the affair partners care to admit, which is precisely why they go through so much effort to avoid letting them in on the little secret.

 

Of course, the deception of another human being can all sound rather noble when you twist it around with the ol’: “What they don’t know won’t hurt them” excuse.

[Tomcat33]

If I drive the get away car during the bank robbery..... get the benefits of getting some of the stolen cash.......then get caught... am I innocent?

 

Did I not choose to harm others by participating in the robbery knowing it was wrong and harmed others?

 

(just a peep at the flip side)

 

Of course if you are not told you are driving the get away car..... yeah you are innocent..... not your problem as you did not know nor choose to do so.

 

 

That's not a comperable example. You are talking about being a complice in a robbery stealing money VS a cheater who lies to his OP and his spouse. The OP is not stealing the cheater, the cheater does what they do willingly and THEY have the duty to their family and W/H NOT the complice.

 

You can also look at it like this. A person can push you to steal money and you end up doing it, then if you get caught does the person who pushed you go down with you? Who is breaking the law you or you and your friend? The law of marriage is broken by the spouse NOT the OP the other person has no legal bounding. hence morality is born to fill in for where the law doesn't cover an act.

 

So if you want to debate if a person who has an A with a married person has morals or not we can also debate that and you would win hands down if you thought the person does not have morals. Ok fine I'll give you that, in many cases it is temporary immorality. But to say that they both share 50/50% of the responisbility NOT A CHANCE! One is married the other isn't

 

You don't pay for a crime based solely on immorality you pay for it based on the act of breaking the law.

[a4a]

That's not a comperable examply. You are talking about being a complice in a robbery stealing money VS a cheater who lies to his OP and his spouse. The OP is not stealing the cheater, the cheater does what they do willingly and THEY have the duty to their family and W/H NOT the complice.

 

You can also look at it like this. A person can push you to steal money and you end up doing it, then if you get caught does the person who pushed you go down with you? Who is breaking the law you or you and your friend? The law of marriage is broken by the spouse NOT the OP the other person has no legal bounding. hence morality is born to fill in for where the law doesn't cover an act.

 

So if you want to debate if a person who has an A with a married person has morals or not we can also debate that and you would win hands down if you thought the person does not have morals. Ok fine I'll give you that, in many cases it is temporary immorality. But to say that they both share 50/50% of the responisbility NOT A CHANCE! One is married the other isn't

 

You don't pay for a crime based solely on immorality you pay for it based on the act of breaking the law.

 

 

I was not saying that the getaway driver was stealing the gun weilding robber(MM/MW)... I am saying that both parties are participating in an act that harms others....... Without the getaway driver.... well the robber couldn't pull it off... so it is 50/50.

 

I am not comparing stealing money to stealing a spouse.

 

If you are pushed into an affair by a MM - to participate willingly - knowing it is wrong you are just as guilty of the "crime".

 

You are not innocent.

 

Unless of course he tells you he is not married and based the A on total lies. -

[amerikajin]

I find it interesting how often in the OW/OM portion of the forum that regardless of the topic it ends up with posters telling the OW how wrong they are and the OW’s defending themselves. I absolutely do not believe in monogamy so it seems kind of trivial to me.

 

More than once I’ve had a fling with a married woman. In every case I knew that they were married and never had any illusions of taking them away from their husbands. From my perspective, most women marry and stay married for financial reasons, a stable home, and to avoid being alone. The emotional attachments tend to not be about love but about one’s own security and stability.

 

With each MW they came to me for emotional support, to have someone to talk to. From my point of view, their affair with me was greatly beneficial to their mental well being. I don’t at all think that being tied strictly to one person is a good thing. A little someone different every now and then is probably a good thing.

 

There was one MW; her friend was well aware of what was happening. She told us once that she wished she had someone like me so that she could have an escape from her husband every now and then.

 

I’m sure MM are different but I just don’t see any intrinsic wrongness with having an extramarital affair.

 

A thought-provoking question indeed.

 

When I lived in Japan, I had several opportunities to sleep with married women and I could have easily gotten away with it. I'd be lying to you if I told you I hadn't considered actually going through with it, but I ultimately turned them down.

 

Not everyone would consider my attitudes to be "moral", but I do believe in reckoning with the consequences. Forget all of the moral absolutist arguments you have already been bombarded with: there's just too much potential for drama when you get into an affair, and you never know how something like that is going to unfold. How would you feel if the affair were exposed and the woman ended up getting pummeled (or worse) by a jealous husband? How would you feel if there were kids and they ended up getting a divorce? I mean, are you not to blame in this situation? Would it be worth it?

[Tomcat33]

I was not saying that the getaway driver was stealing the gun weilding robber(MM/MW)... I am saying that both parties are participating in an act that harms others....... Without the getaway driver.... well the robber couldn't pull it off... so it is 50/50.

 

I am not comparing stealing money to stealing a spouse.

 

If you are pushed into an affair by a MM - to participate willingly - knowing it is wrong you are just as guilty of the "crime".

 

You are not innocent.

 

Unless of course he tells you he is not married and based the A on total lies. -

 

 

 

What's the crime exactly? Let's define the crime.

[a4a]

Not everyone would consider my attitudes to be "moral", but I do believe in reckoning with the consequences. Forget all of the moral absolutist arguments you have already been bombarded with: there's just too much potential for drama when you get into an affair, and you never know how something like that is going to unfold. How would you feel if the affair were exposed and the woman ended up getting pummeled (or worse) by a jealous husband? How would you feel if there were kids and they ended up getting a divorce? I mean, are you not to blame in this situation? Would it be worth it?

 

Exactly....... I don't think it is worth knowingly taking that risk simply for sex.

Nor do I want to be responsible for the harm of others.

 

If all participating are open swingers.... have marital agreements..... well go for it! (take photos and email them to me)

[Cliche]

Not everyone would consider my attitudes to be "moral", but I do believe in reckoning with the consequences. Forget all of the moral absolutist arguments you have already been bombarded with: there's just too much potential for drama when you get into an affair, and you never know how something like that is going to unfold. How would you feel if the affair were exposed and the woman ended up getting pummeled (or worse) by a jealous husband? How would you feel if there were kids and they ended up getting a divorce? I mean, are you not to blame in this situation? Would it be worth it?

 

These are exactly the repercussions we face when we're in an A, and I think this is an excellent insight.

 

I am not a religious person by any means. Nor do I think marriage is sacred just because it is marriage. I think it is the relationship that is special, not the designation.

 

However, As are extremely harmful, not because of some threat of a looming hell, but because we put ourselves in a situation that causes all involved intense pain here and now. It's the karma of it, so to speak. I think the natural consequences of our bad choices are our hell. That is the reason to avoid these relationships...our pain, the MPs pain and the BS' pain (and children, if involved). Neither the marriage argument nor the God argument do much for me. I've never been able to view life in such black and white terms, it is so much more complicated than that.

[a4a]

What's the crime exactly? Let's define the crime.

 

crime (krm) KEY

 

NOUN:

 

An act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it and for which punishment is imposed upon conviction.

Unlawful activity: statistics relating to violent crime.

A serious offense, especially one in violation of morality.

An unjust, senseless, or disgraceful act or condition: It's a crime to squander our country's natural resources

[Tomcat33]

crime (krm) KEY

 

NOUN:

 

An act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it and for which punishment is imposed upon conviction.

Unlawful activity: statistics relating to violent crime.

A serious offense, especially one in violation of morality.

An unjust, senseless, or disgraceful act or condition: It's a crime to squander our country's natural resources

 

yeah thanks for the definition of the "word" crime but it was totally unnecessary!

 

Seeing as grammar does not appear to be one of your strengths, let me reask the question and bold the parts that you clearly missed.

 

What's THE crime exactly?

Let's define THE crime.

[whichwayisup]

A serious offense, especially one in violation of morality.

 

Even though affairs are not illegal, this above, says it all.

[Cliche]

Oh good lord, in some states, spitting on the sidewalk is a crime. I'm not moved by the argument that OPs = criminals. Surely you can all come up with something better and more moving that that.

 

I just doubt that argument is going to change anyone's mind.

[outofdarkness]

LOL...that is the best way I have heard it put yet. And it is the dead on truth.

Love it!!! Love it!!!! Thanks for a great..DEAD ON post!!

[outofdarkness]

Even though affairs are not illegal, this above, says it all.

Well...we WISH adultery was a crime punishable by well..let's not get into THAT! BUT, as far as I know...It's not a crime...legally speaking that is...It IS IMO morally unacceptable and extremely selfish....

[a4a]

yeah thanks for the definition of the "word" crime but it was totally unnecessary!

 

Seeing as grammar does not appear to be one of your strengths, let me reask the question and bold the parts that you clearly missed.

 

What's THE crime exactly?

Let's define THE crime.

 

Yes I admit that I ain't botherin' wit grammar much here on LS.

 

Then again I have other things to do besides post here to validate myself.... I am actually working at the moment. So let me apologize for my quick posts and not using proper grammar.... I is sorry.

 

Crime in this case is causing potential or real harm to others and being aware that you are doing so.

 

BTW..... I have to wonder if the OW/OM is hurting as much as the BS in many cases. Or has the potential to be as hurt if real feelings are involved.

I don't think I would be willing to risk that either.

[amerikajin]

Well...we WISH adultery was a crime punishable by well..let's not get into THAT! BUT, as far as I know...It's not a crime...legally speaking that is...It IS IMO morally unacceptable and extremely selfish....

 

I think it is a misdemeanor crime in some states but it is almost never prosecuted - why I don't know.

 

I do know that in a lot of countries, though, it is a crime. In South Korea, for example, people regularly get jailed for adultery. In Japan, a person can not only sue their spouse for adultery, they can also sue the other man/woman. There were foreigners there who got sued for messing around with married women, and they had to pay anywhere from $20,000-$50,000. Would've been cheaper to get a hooker.

[a4a]

Well...we WISH adultery was a crime punishable by well..let's not get into THAT! BUT, as far as I know...It's not a crime...legally speaking that is...It IS IMO morally unacceptable and extremely selfish....

 

In many states it is in a way. If a spouse is found cheating the BS will often gain favor in the divorce courts.

 

 

I currently am watching a friend (MM) go through this. I understand why he did have an A..... I don't agree with it, but I understand it. He should have just come clean years ago and left. Now instead of a amicable divorce he now is the "bad guy".

 

Too bad.... he is going to get taken to the cleaners. His W is a big C!

[Tomcat33]

Yes I admit that I ain't botherin' wit grammar much here on LS.

 

Then again I have other things to do besides post here to validate myself.... I am actually working at the moment. So let me apologize for my quick posts and not using proper grammar.... I is sorry.

 

Crime in this case is causing potential or real harm to others and being aware that you are doing so.

 

BTW..... I have to wonder if the OW/OM is hurting as much as the BS in many cases. Or has the potential to be as hurt if real feelings are involved.

I don't think I would be willing to risk that either.

 

 

yeah we are all at work and if you don't have time to debate then maybe you should not be putting thoughts out here...just a thought

Anyway no prob, thought you were being a smarty pants and returned your post in kind

 

Ok so you say a crime is that of which a person is causing potential or real harm to others and being aware that you are doing so.

 

I think that's where we part company, and why I asked you to define the crime. What you described is not a crime, it is a moral judgement call. In other words it could be deemed wrong but it is not a crime.

 

So going back to your bank robbery example there are two people committing a crime VS two people enganging in a morally wrong situation. that's why I don't think the punishment is considered that same.

But the only one breaking a law is the cheating spouse, the law of marriage.

[Tomcat33]

By the way I live in Canada and adultery is not a crime. Furthermore a married person living on their own for more than two months is considered legally seperated. I started a rel with a man who was legally seperated. Even though we met before he had moved out and had an EA before he decided to move out. Technically and in the eyes of what constitutes and extra marital A I was never having one. In practice it sure felt like it...not because we snuck around, we didn't at all, but his W never knew about is and he WAS still married.

 

Do I feel responisble for any crime? NOT AT ALL! sorry. Grown adults with full capability of choice.