How do you know your beliefs are right?

[lonelybird]

I am of the position that what Holy Spirit confirmed to me. Holy Spirit confirmed Bible and Jesus, Bible confirm Holy Spirit and Jesus, it is unbroken chain.

[disgracian]

It is circular logic, yes.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Love Hurts]

Curious as to why some of you think your beliefs are right & others r wrong?

 

There's so many.

 

Satan is the deceiver from the beginning.

The truth is in what Jesus Christ did on the Cross.

Jesus gave all that who so ever believeth in him will no perish but have everlasting life.

 

Thats about it.

[Moose]

For me.....most all religions are, "do, do , do".....mine is, "done, done, done".

[disgracian]

That's a shame. Nothing left to strive for.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

That's a shame. Nothing left to strive for.

 

Cheers,

D.

Wrong again. It's my wish that everyone I come in contact with knows and gains the same peace. I have a lot to strive for.

[disgracian]

"Do, do, do" religions keep their followers honest, "done, done, done" religions create complacency and self-righteousness.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

"Do, do, do" religions keep their followers honest, "done, done, done" religions create complacency and self-righteousness.

I can see where you'd believe that. I think you may be the type that learns from experience(s) and you've probably had some bad ones. So you draw your conclusions and generalize the masses with those conclusions.

 

BUT, I hope you understand that those who do act self-righteous are in question as to whether or not they are, "believers" or "followers".

 

Followers would know that we are ALL still sinners and not one of us are worthy to be saved. There is no difference between you and I in that respect.

[disgracian]

"Experience is a dear teacher, but a fool learns at no other." I don't know who said that, but it's true. So I try to learn from the experiences of others as well as my own.

 

A person who believes in something is still a believer, no matter how they behave. I think it's dishonest to exclude them just because they give the rest of your group a bad name. It's more responsible to accept the reality that they are just as much of a believer as the next person, and deal with the situation.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Lean On Me]

Curious as to why some of you think your beliefs are right & others r wrong?

 

There's so many.

Easy, when you believe so strongly about something, you think your belief is right and the only right one.

Like I believe there is only one true Bible...Holy Bible. The Mormons believe that the Holy Bible can't do w/o the Book Of Mormon. I believe it can.

In the Holy Bible, God says ..do not add to or take away from my word.

Isn't that what the guy that wrote the Book Of Mormon did?

You see, it is all in what you believe to be true. People will always take up for what they believe in or believe to be true.

[disgracian]

In the Holy Bible, God says ..do not add to or take away from my word.

Isn't that what the guy that wrote the Book Of Mormon did?

Do you think the Bible dropped from the sky? The only reason we have a Bible is because people got together and decided to do exactly that: add and subtract from "the word", whatever that is. They chose the writings that conformed to their ideas about religion and discarded everything else, making compromises along the way to appease the representatives of the major churches at that time.

 

In my opinion, most forms of Bible study neglect to cover how it was compiled in the first place, and where those texts came from before there was a Bible as we know it today. People have no perspective.

 

Cheers,

D.

[riobikini]

re:

 

Disgracian: "Do you think the Bible dropped from the sky? The only reason we have a Bible is because people got together and decided to do exactly that: add and subtract from "the word", whatever that is. They chose the writings that conformed to their ideas about religion and discarded everything else, making compromises along the way to appease the representatives of the major churches at that time.

 

In my opinion, most forms of Bible study neglect to cover how it was compiled in the first place, and where those texts came from before there was a Bible as we know it today. People have no perspective."

 

Some of my thoughts, as well.

 

Here in the Bible Belt right smack in the middle of Redneck America, most folks have never sat in a classroom long enough to have heard about the Emperor Constantine or the Nicene Creed.

 

Our whole concept of God, God things, and -especially- God "law" is all based on the "born in sin" concept.

 

Currently (Smile) I am the one "most likely" (according to my relatives) to go to this awful burning inferno called "hell" because I just can't accept the entirely compiled spoken Word of God known as the Bible as -well- gospel, and swallow it whole.

 

All that "original sin" business -I assert to them in conversations I'd rather not be having, in the first place- is malarkey as far as I'm concerned.

 

My views literally cause their veins to extend and appear on the verge of exploding, so I try to avoid these kinds of discussions -along with politics, of course, another source known to Southerners to make the blood boil and families to disassociate for generations.

 

(Smile)

 

Still, whenever I am cornered by my worried-about-my-soul Christian folks and find myself standing in someone's kitchen at a family gathering with a piece of punkin pie (pumpkin....Smile) half hanging from my mouth and the subject is restarted up -I always start with them all from the top and ask them if they've done their "mandatory" reading about Constantine.

 

Some of them, to date, even hate Constantine -of course, long dead by now- and yet, they know little about him.

 

They only hate him because I always bring him up as my "starting point" -otherwise they kind of like the guy for bringing up, and kind of making famous, the "original sin" thing and credit him with the advancement of, at least, their little Southern idea of what true Christianity is -especially, the hell and punishment part.

 

The being born in sin idea first actually came on the scene about the time of the edict of Milan (better known as the Nicene Creed.)

 

It was after the death of Jesus Christ in 325 A.D.

 

The reigning Bishop of Rome and Constantine (of the Holy Roman Empire)conspired together to unite the Roman Empire under one religion, giving it their own little twist or "signature" in exactly the way it was to read.

 

They chose this obscure -but budding- little religious sect -Hebrews- known as "Christians" to use as the means to birth or carry through with their plan -which was, at its very core, all about gaining control over the people.

 

As many people -along with their wealth and their allegiance and their obedience- as they could.

 

Emperor Constantine and the Bishop called for a meeting at Nicea (nowadays, it's Istanbul) -and there they conferred with 317 other bishops.

 

There, with Constantine leading the whole conspirative lot, they all contrived and reworked and spent much time and effort into choosing exactly what -or how much of- the budding religion they could use to build the monstrosity now known the world over as Christianity, complete with a Pope, a ridiculously wealthy church, and a Bible containing the "do's" and "don't's" of how to live a life being good and eventually, get to Heaven.

 

When the council was finished with the revision of the Christian religion, it was a totally new, reinvented version of whatever it was they were using for their written guide -or source- from which the tiny religion had sprouted, in the first place.

 

(Argument may now begin.....Smile.)

 

 

In essence, ol' Constantine and his buddies stole a little bitty religion that was having lots of trouble and was easy to steal, and turned it into a vehicle that served their means, both politically, financially, and through which many of their own personal ideas and perspectives were added, for self-serving measure.

 

Thus, the Bible -a piece of Constantine's very on work and creativity, using as much of the original script as he thought would cause his plan to work as he'd imagined.

 

If only he could see it, now!

 

Backed by such power, and now having the basis of Constantine's new "rules" intertwined, the Word of God took on a clearly threatening tone: do this, this, and that -or else!

 

"And don't forget to pay me lots of attention, burn candles, and -by the way- give me your money, too. -God"

 

"And -P.S.- if you don't do as I say, live as I want you to live, and be a "good" little citizen and adhere to My laws and the good, right, and true laws of your government (which are for your own good) -you will certainly burn in hell, and will suffer lots of hen-pecking -and even death- by anyone who feels he is more righteous than you (because he followed all the rules and you didn't), and you will deserve every bit of it!"

 

I don't know about you but with my concept of "God speak", The Almighty would never talk to me that way.

 

Like some people in government nowadays "work" the system, so did Constantine in his day.

 

But -WOW! -what amazingly lasting results! -you have to hand it to him -he was a jewel!

 

So now -along with all the other crap we have to deal with in life- we also have this religion we're not even sure of, as to whether or not we're reading Constantine's passage in the scriptures -or whether it's the true Word of God.

 

Or whether it's a mixture of the right and wrong.

 

And distantly -who really didwrite those original scripts, anyway -and did they have motives similar to Constantine, too?

 

Maybe they didn't react as quickly as Constantine, or have his power to kick it.

 

Look -trying to figure it out does involve using your available resources like knowledge from a classroom,and lots of searching around, sorting through -and then- you know what?

 

It comes right back to you, and what *you* think.

 

And how you feel, and how much you desire to know The God, your God, and stay on His trail like a hound after a rabbit.

 

If you have to rest in between, then rest.

 

If you feel ready to pant after Him -then give it all you've got in you.

 

I think -if you do that- you won't really have to look too far, God will find you!

 

He hasn't lost, misplaced, or overlooked anyone, yet!

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[Moose]

Whoa.....what an interesting POV rio.......strange......but interesting non the less.

 

If this strategic plan of this Bishop and Constantine's was so great....then where is the Roman Empire now?

 

How did Christianity survive, and the Roman Empire fail?

I think it's dishonest to exclude them just because they give the rest of your group a bad name

Only God knows their hearts. It's not for me to say whether or not they're actually believers. But if they don't walk the walk.....it is our right to question.

[Topper]

Moose, it really isn't so stange. There wasn't a book known as the " Bible" untill the Nicene council and the forming of the Nicene creed.

 

The Roman Empire morphed into The Roman Catholic Chruch.

Of course this is a simplistic version of what happened. Just as what Rio wrote is a simplistic version of Constantine and the Nicene Council. Massive volumes could and have been written on this vary subject.

Many take the hijacking of of this new Jewish sect we now call Christians back to Paul. You may notice that Paul never says one word about the 4 Gospels in all his letters. why is that? In many of paul's letters he is addressing issues about the others? Who profess a different doctrine then the doctrine according to Paul. Who are the others?

[disgracian]

Topper - Paul's letters are actually the earliest writings in the New Testament canon; the gospels weren't written until afterwards. That's the most likely reason that he does not reference them.

 

Cheers,

D.

[riobikini]

re:

 

Moose: " Only God knows their hearts. It's not for me to say whether or not they're actually believers. But if they don't walk the walk.....it is our right to question."

 

I agree -it is our right to question -that's part of both our natural Spiritual and physical growing and learning process, which can't help but increase your understanding -especially, where Spirit matters are concerned.

 

I believe it's natural for both your physical and your Spritual sides to be inherent "seekers" of knowledge, truth, and understanding.

 

Now, Moose (Smile) I respect your beliefs -and would never seek to dissuade you from them (most of my folks believe exactly as you do)- and I believe folks should just naturally have the right to choose for themselves.

 

I figure, that wherever a person is in his beliefs (the level of understanding that is directly connected to the specific time in his life) whatever Source he's being fed from is -without a doubt- leading him forward to something more God-related as time passes and -at the very least- more self-aware and more "universe conscious".

 

I think that's something impossible to sidestep.

 

I was raised to believe in God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, heaven, hell, -and the Bible, as you do.

 

Then one day, while sitting in a classroom listening to a bit of history, the things I'd been taught just didn't add up.

 

I had to question.

 

Although, I'd been going to church and listening to stuff about God ever since I was a monkey clinging to my mama's hip -I ran into one of those "epiphany moments" concerning God, where it was inevitable -I had to start thinking for myself.

 

As I described in a previous post, I am perceived as the "Devil Child" of nearly, my entire family and have been voted "Most Likely" to bust hell wide open (Smile) -but I think, if anything, I will only harelip it a little bit if they're right -and it's where I wind up.

 

(Smile)

 

But at that time I was sure going to get to the truth of something -and it was going to make sense for me -if only for a span of time, until I could discover more information I could add, or revise, or make some use of.

 

After a few more years of hard thinking, following my eye-opening escape occurring in that classroom, from a questionable, and vague, and confusing idea of who I thought Jesus Christ was, I was beginning to get a better picture of him, having had more and more life experiences that kept confirming what I felt I already knew in my core about him.

 

But I had been unwilling to relinquish the teachings of my church, and especially, to conclude that even my own mother had been lying to me about the guy.

 

Still, she only taught me what she'd been taught, and -if I make nothing more clear in the end- let me give more effort in clarifying that even wrong knowledge can lead to the truth for any individual willing to keep growing in their knowledge and understanding, and that no one is responsible for accomplishing that except you, the individual.

 

As for my idea of who Jesus was -well- here's what I'm holding to until I learn better.

 

I figure the little Jewish guy called "Jesus" way-y-y-y back then, was exactly the same kind of flesh-and-blood human as the next guy in the everyday, mundane, here and now.

 

I don't think he wasn't any different than you or I, in the sense that he appeared on the scene just at that particular place and time in history as a part of the evolutionary creation of a being in human form on this very tiny planet.

 

I really don't think he had any "special powers" to speak of -at least, not right away, and certainly not without having first, to learn how to "commune" with, and plug into, The Higher Power of The Universe (God)- and wound up here one day just like the rest of us looking for the real purpose to his life.

 

Jesus would have made a wonderful Flower Child back in the '60's (Smile.)

 

I think -if he had lived during that time in history- he would have even probably, sought God through hallucinogenic means and -unlike Brotha' Bill-probably would have had no problem, at all, with admitting he inhaled, at least, the smoke and vapors of something to facilitate the connection to the Great Higher Being he sought after, even if it was only incense.

 

And -no- I don't really think Jesus was necessarily a hippie Jew running around Jerusalem performing random acts of kindness, doing magic shows, or seeking to overthrow the government.

 

And yes -I'm fully aware that all this sounds like blasphemy- yet, I'm choosing to mention it, anyway, the same as with my folks on holiday when I make it a point to be in rare form (eight hours of sleep, refresher course the week previous on -ah- let's say something like Mormonism to kick things off) at our wonderful Annual Southern Family SoulFest -complete with Bible thumping and verse quoting- held normally, on Thanksgiving Day at my sister's house (the one who lives right next door to the church.)

 

(Smile)

 

I think Jesus was just a regular guy to whom it became very clear that, in order to really get to know God, all you have to do is start wondering why you were ever born.

 

Once your mind starts asking that question -I think- your whole being just automatically sets itself in "God-seeking Mode"- and things begin to happen.

 

You might be able to shut some of the noise out that's consuming your brain -but look- once you've begun thinking about God, He has this unique way of just getting bigger and bigger and you never can quite shut the whole idea of God out of your mind ever again -and in a very good way.

 

I think Jesus was just a guy who couldn't stop thinking about God in the time of history in which he lived.

 

And I think -because of that- he learned to use his mind to the greatest pinnacle he could acheive, open it up, and commune with God, and receive special insights, and learn ways and means to use them for good and became a real -well- "Son of God" in that sense.

 

But hold on -some call this kind of stuff witchcraft, cult lifestyle, and just as in our modern-day, Jesus received a lotta flack over it.

 

Yet, Jesus was special for a bunch of very important reasons -all which could land him in big trouble in his ancient and young society (being put to death, for instance)- and would have, likely, earned himself a one way ticket to the Funny Farm, or wouldn't have gotten him the time of day, in ours.

 

I appreciate his earnest, and drive.

 

I recognize that he was a guy trying to do the "right thing" -and most of all that he was just trying to wake people up to learn how to commune with The Higher Power he'd found for himself, and teach others to do the same.

 

I believe that whatever he had to say was written down by some people and caused such a stir -and made such sense- that it threatened the control of government over the people and -though many of the people were willing to start practicing Jesus' methods of "talking" to God- that it simply undermined the motives of the political leaders of that day and time.

 

It gave hope, it lessened anxiety and stress, it cleared your mind so you could make better decisions for your life, it gave a sense of peace and calm -and it caused the people to look to themselves to seek answers concerning -especially- what is good, right, acceptable, and generally, how to go about living life with their focus on their total well being- all of which government only favors if only goes so far and doesn't leave them without the greater control or authority.

 

So -with the focus on government (or anyone else seeking power and control)- why wouldn't they have latched onto and made good use of this whole idea of God-stuff to turn the weight of the balance in the the favor of themselves?

 

Misconstruing Jesus' sayings, and adding to or subtracting from his teachings that were being written down by several different people all at once (and all with different interpretations of exactly what he was saying, by the way) was a very good place to start, if a guy really wanted to confuse others as to what the Jew was all about.

 

And I think that did happen.

 

I think it continues today.

 

I still maintain that -if you really want to connect with God, any Higher Power, The Universe, or whatever you happen to be calling it right now- you have to learn how to sift through the garbage pile of media, preaching, teaching, beliefs, and instruction manuals until you find what you're looking for.

 

Your beliefs were meant to be as individual as you are.

 

But where we all wind up, I believe, is right smack in the face of The Source from which we began -but somehow greater, and much happier.

 

(Smile)

 

Rio

[Topper]

Topper - Paul's letters are actually the earliest writings in the New Testament canon; the gospels weren't written until afterwards. That's the most likely reason that he does not reference them.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Move to the Head of the class. Paul was out on his own making up a new religion as he went along.

Paul never met the living Jesus. he only had a vision. he returns to Jerusalem 3 years or so after his Vision. He the followers of Jesus he had this great Vision. And is now a follower of Jesus. he then goes back out on the road. Preaching. He is gone and for the most part out of touch with James and Peter in Jerusalem. James and Peter in Jerusalem get word of what Paul is teaching and send out some letters basically asking Paul what the H are you teaching? It is the letters from Peter and James rebuking Paul that are lost to history. Perhaps someday like the Gnostic gospels they will be found. By allowing people to be a part of this new Jewish sect without being Jewish Not obeying Kosher laws and not requiring circumcision allow the Greek Part of the New faith to grow faster Then the Jewish Part.

Paul's Greek and roman Chruch incorporated many parts of the Mystic Mithra into the new religion. Much of the religion starts losing it's Jewish roots.

 

Rio You have a wonderful non confrontational way of stating your Faith. My hat is off to you.

[riobikini]

re:

 

Topper: "Rio You have a wonderful non confrontational way of stating your Faith. My hat is off to you."

 

A gracious "thank you" for that comment, T.

 

And as for the rough spelling, poor grammar and simply rotten punctuation skills -which you were kind enough not to mention-I'll let it all stand except for where I say "wasn't" in the following:

 

"I don't think he wasn't any different than you or I, in the sense that he appeared on the scene just at that particular place and time in history as a part of the evolutionary creation of a being in human form on this very tiny planet."

 

I apologize -to my second grade english teacher for that faux pas -I should've said "was" and let that be enough.

 

(Smile)

 

Meanwhile the reminder, to err is human; to forgive (even oneself) is Divine.

 

('nother Smile)

 

-Rio

[lonelybird]

Easy, when you believe so strongly about something, you think your belief is right and the only right one.

Like I believe there is only one true Bible...Holy Bible. The Mormons believe that the Holy Bible can't do w/o the Book Of Mormon. I believe it can.

In the Holy Bible, God says ..do not add to or take away from my word.

Isn't that what the guy that wrote the Book Of Mormon did?

You see, it is all in what you believe to be true. People will always take up for what they believe in or believe to be true.

No, you miss out Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit teatify Jesus is the Lord, he is the only way. The Bible is words of God

 

Let me ask you a question (I borrow from a pastor:p), when you go to a city, do you have to abide by this city's rules? dos and don't dos? you have to, right? Same as kingdom of heaven, there are something you shouldn't do if you want to go to kingdom of heaven

 

1+1=?

everyone knows it should be 2.

when you jump high, will you fall back on ground, or fly hight? everybody knows you fall back on ground

 

These are absolute truth. that everyone knows.

Same as kingdom of heaven. It is absolute truth, it is a narrow gate.

 

Many people know the story of Jesus, know God's commandments, but they reject them, why? their flesh is working rather than spirit. There are some rules in Bible they don't want to follow:o

Jesus came to fulfill the law, not abandon them

 

They are like a man traveling on the road, another man told him that there is a deep pit along the road, and should change another road, and this traveling man in order to avoid the pit, and don't want to change to another road, he covers his eyes, and refused to see the pit. As a result, he falled into it

[riobikini]

re:

 

LonelyBird: "Many people know the story of Jesus, know God's commandments, but they reject them, why? their flesh is working rather than spirit. There are some rules in Bible they don't want to follow."

 

 

And to that I answer with a little bit of the wisdom of Mark Twain, who said, "A person who has a cat by the tail knows a whole lot more about cats than someone who has just read about them"

 

Why do I get the feeling Twain might have been speaking from his own experiences, instead of just trying to be brilliant?

 

(Grin)

 

Probably -and unfortunately- because I'm just like him, in that respect -and I think alot of folks are, too.

 

To connect what I've just said with the part of your post I quoted, LB, what I'm getting at is -for a generous lot of folks- they have to feel the "burn" before they learn.

 

I certainly, did (and still do) with a lot of things.

 

For me -an entire book of rules has about as much appeal, or potential as a pencil cup on a Librarian's desk, or someone with a stiffly sprayed hairdo and nary a hair out of place.

 

About the only thing you want to do with them -is upset them.

 

The trouble with "The Rule Book" is that it's only attractive to some for the very worst of reasons -often in ways that cause this sudden built-up of contempt to ignite like hidden methane from seemingly, nowhere, and you wind up breaking some of the rules and suffering the resulting consequences.

 

I don't think -if you've zeroed in on a bona fide "life rule", "God Truth", or Universal Fact- and not just broke it, but busted the heck out of it, that you can get around the consequences, and prance off scot-free.

 

Just make sure it's the real thing you broke -and not someone's vague or naughtily-conceived inflection of the so-called rule -or you could wind up repenting to a candle, a pile of dry bones, or writing a check to the TV Preacher every month, trying to get forgiveness for a rule you never broke, or that never existed, in the first place.

 

On the other hand -the results of the consequences to the *real* rules, are designed to work without the help of TV Preachers -or anyone else, for that matter- telling you that you cracked, broke, or outright busted a bona fide Law Of The God Of The Universe We Think We Know -And All Of The One We've No Idea, Yet, That Exists.

 

(Smile)

 

(Yeah -take a moment if you need to, I'll wait.)

 

In other words, your innate, inherent -and intelligent - God-seeking and God-recognizing Spirit-self- is automatically dealing with whatever consequences your dumb-ass physical self brought down on your head, by breaking a God-truth, the minute you choose to break it.

 

So, -what's so hard about understanding that?

 

And does everyone think (like I used to) that most of the "punishable" rules were about lying, stealing, and fornicating?

 

(Smile)

 

Fact is -the way I understand it, (and it might just surprise you) the most basic "rules" actually involve how healthy we keep our bodies, and how serene and sharp we keep our minds.

 

Both our bodies and our minds have to have the correct diet mentally and Spritually-speaking, in order for us not to be breaking the very first rules in the so-called "rule book" -and which are often never even mentioned.

 

The consequences appear in time -such as: we eat too much and don't exercise, so we grow fat and lazy and wind up with heart disease and diabetes; we focus our minds 24/7 on CNN, and newspapers and get migraines and can't keep a half-way serene thought about anything and watch while our personal and social lives self-destruct; we don't drink enough water, so we do as much damage to our kidneys as we can by drinking coffee and sodas; nor do we get enough sleep and wind up catching the flu because we allowed our immune system to be just vulnerable enough to be a sponge for it.

 

And just as I said earlier- the consequences -all of them- are designed to cause some, at least, mild suffering, and without most of us giving it so much as a blink, or even recognizing it as breaking God-related rules or anything Spirit-based.

 

Why is that?

 

I think it's because -in much of our thinking about God-stuff and all the "do's and don't's" we're familiar with -the "barely noticeable" rule breaking takes a back seat to the bigger stuff, and especially, since we're so caught up in the "original sin" concept.

 

Original Sin just seems to blow everything else away as we look at ourselves as potential murders, thieves, and great liars, among other vile things.

 

And moreover, the Original Sin idea comes across as this ridiculously concocted view, to me: the meaner the sin, the bigger the punishment -and therefore, the bigger the God to save you.

 

Forget that!

 

I'm just gonna keep on looking at me -my reflection- in the "eyes" of a particular Someone I keep learning about, who has never called me bad names, never wished me erased from existance, and certainly, never has prepared a place to roast me.

 

I'm so glad that -for myself- I mostly, only have to concentrate on the basic things.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[lonelybird]

All that "original sin" business -I assert to them in conversations I'd rather not be having, in the first place- is malarkey as far as I'm concerned.

This is what I am talking about "cover your eyes, blind yourself". You want to deny, but it is still there. Or you don't understand what standards God wants us to be. Everybody has different moral levels, you cannot make your own as the truth, can you? such a pride if you do

 

When you blind yourself and think "original sin" is malarkey, you are assuming human being are no sin? you are no sin? or you committed sinns, just you don't want to see? want to know that you are perfect without sin?

 

about "original sin", are you totally selfishless? or can you die on a cross to save us even you know you will get beaten and tortured? selfish itself is a sin. did you ever hurt others? yes, I think you did.

 

It comes right back to you, and what *you* think.

 

And how you feel, and how much you desire to know The God, your God, and stay on His trail like a hound after a rabbit.

Truth is not what YOU think, and I think, truth is truth, come from God. YOU think and I think are irrelevant. Wisdom comes from God as well. no necessary puff self up. salvation is for those who hunger, humble, brokenhearted, not only for some folks who think they are wiser than others

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom

 

re:

I don't think he wasn't any different than you or I,

 

I really don't think he had any "special powers" to speak of -at least, not right away, and certainly not without having first, to learn how to "commune" with, and plug into, The Higher Power of The Universe (God)- and wound up here one day just like the rest of us looking for the real purpose to his life.

 

Jesus would have made a wonderful Flower Child back in the '60's (Smile.)

 

I think -if he had lived during that time in history- he would have even probably, sought God through hallucinogenic means and -unlike Brotha' Bill-probably would have had no problem, at all, with admitting he inhaled, at least, the smoke and vapors of something to facilitate the connection to the Great Higher Being he sought after, even if it was only incense.

 

And -no- I don't really think Jesus was necessarily a hippie Jew running around Jerusalem performing random acts of kindness, doing magic shows, or seeking to overthrow the government.

 

I think Jesus was just a regular guy to whom it became very clear that, in order to really get to know God, all you have to do is start wondering why you were ever born.

Rio, you really do think lots of stuff about Jesus, I wonder where these ideas come from? Your brain? Even Bible talk about story of Jesus, Holy Spirit testify Jesus and God, yet your thinking is opposite all of these.

 

For me -an entire book of rules has about as much appeal, or potential as a pencil cup on a Librarian's desk, or someone with a stiffly sprayed hairdo and nary a hair out of place.

 

About the only thing you want to do with them -is upset them.

 

You don't get this. Truth will set people free. Like the pit I decribed, if I know and I don't tell the man on the road, I don't love him or even care about him. But I know and I tell, even that means offend him, but in order to save his life, I have to tell. That is true friend about, tell the truth even that means offend the friend.

 

YES, if you disobey God's commandments, you bring curses and bad consequences into your life. The rules in Bible want to keep you FROM curses, and that's my purpose as well, if you decide to disobey, it's your decision anyway.

[riobikini]

LonelyBird: " true friend... tell the truth even that means offend the friend."

 

LB -I read all your comments and the above is the one I most choose to talk about -at least- right now.

 

I agree with you that you should be honest with a friend.

 

But only as honest as you know he/she can bear at that particular time.

 

To do otherwise could destroy them.

 

Destruction of someone -anyone- I love or care about is not my goal.

 

With a friend, I am kind beyond measure -and recognizing his/her limits.

 

And I am always *available* and right there -looking for the right approach- when I know he/she is strong enough to bear more truth.

 

And that is, perhaps, one of the most important things you come to realize in learning self-awareness and growth -both Spritual and physical.

 

"When the student is ready, the teacher comes."

 

Eating the whole enchilada all at once can cause your stomach to ache, or cause you to be sick, or throw up.

 

(Smile)

 

You should chew slowly, and savor, or absorb only as much as*you need* at the time (not all you can hold.)

 

And there's a word for this.....

 

Patience is kind, long-suffering, etc....

 

Remember that verse, LB?

 

(Smile)

 

It may actually be one of the scriptures that I could agree on which originally came from The Divine Source.

 

All the above given to you with that kind of virtue and understanding.

 

-Rio

[Moai]

This is what I am talking about "cover your eyes, blind yourself". You want to deny, but it is still there. Or you don't understand what standards God wants us to be. Everybody has different moral levels, you cannot make your own as the truth, can you? such a pride if you do

 

Everyone makes their own. You are, too. You decided to follow the moral instructions in the Bible. You have decided that these morals are absolutely true.

 

Beyond that, the morality of the Bible changes over time. It once once thought to be completely moral to own slaves, for example. The Bible still says nothing about slavery being immoral, by the way. You claim to know what god's standards are, yet you cannot possibly know that. You claim thatthe Holy Spirit tells you what is true and what is not, yet the Holy Spirit gives others entirely different answers. Every believer has ignored this fact sofar, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

 

It seems to me that claiming to know the mind of god--if there is one--is probably the most prideful thing possible.

 

When you blind yourself and think "original sin" is malarkey, you are assuming human being are no sin? you are no sin? or you committed sinns, just you don't want to see? want to know that you are perfect without sin?

 

First, you have to agree with the concept of sin. Is it the same as crime? Are all sins/crimes equal? I know according to your reading of the Bible they are, but other sects disagree. Again, you make the decisions about this yourself.

 

Original sin is malarkey, and it is also immoral. If your brother steals something and you have to pay the money back is that not immoral? Also, having no sliding scale for justice is immoral as well. Someone who steals a few loaves of bread to feed his family is not in the same moral category as Jeffery Dahmer, say (who is going to Heaven, according to your moral position).

 

about "original sin", are you totally selfishless? or can you die on a cross to save us even you know you will get beaten and tortured? selfish itself is a sin. did you ever hurt others? yes, I think you did.

 

This is just weird, frankly. Why should I die on the cross (or in any other way) for anyone else? Why should Jesus have had to? God could erase sin any time he wants, without any sacrifice at all. Do you think intercessory sacrifice is moral?

 

Truth is not what YOU think, and I think, truth is truth, come from God. YOU think and I think are irrelevant. Wisdom comes from God as well. no necessary puff self up. salvation is for those who hunger, humble, brokenhearted, not only for some folks who think they are wiser than others

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom

 

Which is what you think. YOU think that is true, because you made the decision that what the Bible says is true. Reality shows that by and large wisdom comes from experience--yours or the experience of others.

 

Some people are wiser than others. Some people are smarter than others. Some are more moral than others.

 

Rio, you really do think lots of stuff about Jesus, I wonder where these ideas come from? Your brain? Even Bible talk about story of Jesus, Holy Spirit testify Jesus and God, yet your thinking is opposite all of these.

 

You don't get this. Truth will set people free. Like the pit I decribed, if I know and I don't tell the man on the road, I don't love him or even care about him. But I know and I tell, even that means offend him, but in order to save his life, I have to tell. That is true friend about, tell the truth even that means offend the friend.

 

YES, if you disobey God's commandments, you bring curses and bad consequences into your life. The rules in Bible want to keep you FROM curses, and that's my purpose as well, if you decide to disobey, it's your decision anyway.

 

Do you really think that anyone posting on this site in English ahsn't heard about Jesus, and doesn't know what Christianity is, basically? Who are you trying to help, actually? Are you not aware that every other corner in the Western world has a church on it? Anyone who is "hungering" can walk in any time they want.

 

And what if you are wrong? Given how many billions of people disagree with your interpretation of what god wants, etc., that is a distinct possibility, is it not? Forgetting the fact that billions of other people don't even agree with your concept of what god is.

 

If you lead someone to your version of Christianity but it turns out that Islam is actually correct, will god be more or less happy with you? What if neither are correct, but the Mayans had the right idea?

 

It amazes me that you don't see the self-righteous and prideful nature in your behavior and beliefs. And, as I say all the time, you don't have any evidence to back your ideas up.

 

To answer the OP's question, though, I know my ideas are correct because of evidence, experimentation, and relfection. I don't "know" this the same way a religious person would, as I am completely aware that I could be wrong, but I doubt it. There is too much evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

Rationalism works. It is working right now, everywhere. That is good enough for me.

[lonelybird]

LB -I read all your comments and the above is the one I most choose to talk about -at least- right now.

 

I agree with you that you should be honest with a friend.

 

But only as honest as you know he/she can bear at that particular time.

 

To do otherwise could destroy them.

 

Destruction of someone -anyone- I love or care about is not my goal.

 

With a friend, I am kind beyond measure -and recognizing his/her limits.

 

And I am always *available* and right there -looking for the right approach- when I know he/she is strong enough to bear more truth.

 

And that is, perhaps, one of the most important things you come to realize in learning self-awareness and growth -both Spritual and physical.

 

"When the student is ready, the teacher comes."

 

Eating the whole enchilada all at once can cause your stomach to ache, or cause you to be sick, or throw up.

 

(Smile)

 

You should chew slowly, and savor, or absorb only as much as*you need* at the time (not all you can hold.)

 

And there's a word for this.....

 

Patience is kind, long-suffering, etc....

 

Remember that verse, LB?

 

(Smile)

 

It may actually be one of the scriptures that I could agree on which originally came from The Divine Source.

 

All the above given to you with that kind of virtue and understanding.

 

-Rio

Rio, you think I talk on my own thinking, BUT NO, Holy Spirit is guiding me when I post. Sometimes He is silent, which means I didn't cause some damage in people's mind, it is a so-so post; sometimes He approves, which means that post will sow a seed in people's heart; sometimes He disapprove the post, then I definitely will cancel that post.

 

You see, I don't know if my posts are right or not, but Holy Spirit knows, and I rely on HIm, not myself

 

About *destroy*, if people live their life in sin and without knowing, THAT cause damage, to themselves and others. If people know they are sining against God, know they are doing wrong things, heartly repentance will turn them to God, repentance bring change.

[riobikini]

re:

 

LonelyBird: "...you think I talk on my own thinking, BUT NO, Holy Spirit is guiding me when I post."

 

But (Smile) no one is ever going to believe, LB, that you are the voicebox of God for the edification of everyone you meet.

 

If that were so, I'd just call you Jesus, instead.

 

(Smile)

 

But -you know, I really do believe that Spirit is guiding you in some way, as you state in your quote, above- in the sense that in everyone, there is this kind of "sixth sense" that just naturally causes you to seek knowledge about God-stuff and to -always- ask questions, seek answers concerning it.

 

And land you right smack in the middle of conversations just like this one that may cause something someday- to just click, or simplify a particular web of misunderstanding for you, or help you "take out the garbage" that may be piling up in your mind, or increase and define what you already accept as truth.

 

There certainly is a Powerful Force of some Being connected with our existence -and that Being is cunning and intelligent enough to let us walk ourselves right up to the plate where we either have to play ball or stay stuck on one particular base, until we do.

 

And I think there are more "innings" (opportunities to learn more) for most of us than the usual nine.

 

Since our whole lives are set up for us to move onto the next "base" (level) of knowledge, (even if it means dying to get there for the slower learners) you might keep finding yourself being offered the opportunity to "graduate" to a higher level of God-knowledge and understanding, over and over again.

 

So -LB- you may very well be right in thinking you are being "led" (and in some cases, pushed) towards the next (and even more enlightening) goal until you "get it."

 

Because -in fact- you are.

 

-Rio