How do you know your beliefs are right?

[RecordProducer]

And God answers prayers:) everything happens for a reason

What's the reason when 32 innocent young people get shot at school? Whatever reason you may give me, tell it to the parents of those dead kids!

 

It seems like god doesn't make any filtering when answering prayers.

[amerikajin]

What's the reason when 32 innocent young people get shot at school? Whatever reason you may give me, tell it to the parents of those dead kids!

 

It seems like god doesn't make any filtering when answering prayers.

 

I'm not a Christian, but if I were, I would say that God answers *some* prayers, but not all. I would also say that the 'reason' behind the death of those students and faculty might not be immediately clear, but that it will become more apparent in time. Perhaps it could be to make us appreciate the preciousness of individual life more. Perhaps it might inspire us to look closer at the lives of people like Cho, to intervene sooner; to never forget that we can't just ignore individuals and allow them to slip through the cracks no matter how unappealing they might be. Although I am not Christian, I sort of feel that this might be one of the lessons we learn from this.

 

A person can respond to this with anger -- I know I would. Anger has a natural place in our world. Without it, we would never have the courage to confront what we perceive are assaults against our well-being. We would never defend ourselves or our families. Anger is one of the emotions that allowed homo sapiens to survive and advance to where we are today. But just like one cannot stay sad forever; just like one cannot remain in fright and lock the doors forever; one must control anger and understand that anger is not productive in the long run as a response to this type of tragedy. One must have the courage to drop anger, and attempt to gain knowledge through perspective and compassion.

 

I know enough to know that there is too much about the world around me that I don't know; too much that I don't know to assume that I know with certainty. I know that my bank account's low and my coffee's burning, but I don't really know a whole hell of a lot beyond that. We're just making educated guesses. God could indeed be the God as represented in the Bible -- maybe God's got a special place reserved for me in hell for dissing Him so much on loveshack.org...then again, maybe Satan is God - now isn't that a repulsive thought? I'm inclined, however, to believe that neither is true. I think that God is a force; a creative force, a destructive force. A force that senses but doesn't necessarily decide or judge anything. I think God senses us the way that the forest senses the Blue Jay landing on the branch of a tree. It somehow knows we're there but doesn't really pay a lot of attention to us. What we do with our 'gifts' from God is really up to us.

 

Humans are individuals but the notion of individualism is, I think, exaggerated. We are individuals, true, but I also think we are part of a superorganism. We are like the cells that die in our own body; here today, gone tomorrow and replaced by something newer, fresher, ready to carry on until the next generation is ready to take over. We can either be good cells and work to keep the organism alive, or be bad cells and act like a wild cancer that devours all of its organs, and eventually, ending its existence outright. But even if it does go that far, not to fear, the world outside of our existence will find a way to continue, with or without us.

[RecordProducer]

That was a very nice anthropo-philosophical post. Your view of god is typical atheistic! It's funny how religious people just piss us off, but they are deeply offended when we bash god. I think I have quite a few educated guesses about god and religion, but that would offend some people here who are very dear to me.

 

Speaking of bullying and the "message" we got from the tragedy... what I got from my in-laws is bullying in various forms. I can finally verbalize my felings about it next time when somebody tells me "Why do you care what they say to you or about you to your husband or other people?" I will simply say "They bully me all the time."

 

Still I will never accept that those kids had to die for someone else to learn a lesson. I bet my in-laws would never say one bad word about me if I buy a gun!

 

There is nothing more powerful in civilization than words!

[lonelybird]

What's the reason when 32 innocent young people get shot at school? Whatever reason you may give me, tell it to the parents of those dead kids!

 

It seems like god doesn't make any filtering when answering prayers.

I try to anwser

 

Human man nature is evil. If human is led by their flesh, they fall into pits all the time. In this case, God knew this tradgety will happen. But God let it happen. He will not just stop a tradgety that human being sinful flesh make. If He do stop all tradgeties caused by human sinful flesh, what would human do? they will get worse and worse, they will do anything that just please themselves without taking any responsibilities, they would kill just for fun without blink eyes, although God can stop the killing too, but what left in their soul, totally corrupted. and all souls would go to hell.

 

Although God didn't stop these tradgeties, but HE uses these tradgeties to change people's heart.

 

If you know FOR SURE there are hell, after people die, some of them would go to hell and burning in there forever. If you know this, do you rather rebuke them in the earth for their sinful deeds; or do you rather just let them go to hell without any warning.

 

Let me ask you a question. If there is hell, what will you do for saving souls?

 

32 innocent young people died. but many will get wake up call from this tradgety, and begin to turn to God, so many souls get saved without experience the burning fire in hell. This is tough decision for God I believe. As little human being could not be possibly even THINk about these responsibilities. It is a choice between bad and relatively bad.

 

So let's look at the bright side, save as many souls as possible. What can you do about the human being deep rooted sinful nature?

 

Then another question: why do people ignore God and God commandments as possibly as they can, but when bad thing happen, they ask where is God???

 

Our anger direct to wrong direction. God did not want us to sin, God did not want people to kill people. On the contrary, God sent many messager to tell people about God and commandments, what did you see people's reaction? People don't listen, and laugh and ridicule

 

32 young people died, it is very sad. May God restore their souls in heaven. Heaven is beautiful.

[amerikajin]

That was a very nice anthropo-philosophical post. Your view of god is typical atheistic! It's funny how religious people just piss us off, but they are deeply offended when we bash god. I think I have quite a few educated guesses about god and religion, but that would offend some people here who are very dear to me.

 

I don't see it as 'atheistic' at all. I believe in a God, but not necessarily in the conventional sense. I think that bothers a lot of people, though -- the idea that God might not be human in its form. I think it scares some people that there might not be a heaven to look forward to after death.

[amerikajin]

I try to anwser

 

Human man nature is evil. If human is led by their flesh, they fall into pits all the time. In this case, God knew this tradgety will happen. But God let it happen. He will not just stop a tradgety that human being sinful flesh make. If He do stop all tradgeties caused by human sinful flesh, what would human do? they will get worse and worse, they will do anything that just please themselves without taking any responsibilities, they would kill just for fun without blink eyes, although God can stop the killing too, but what left in their soul, totally corrupted. and all souls would go to hell.

 

Although God didn't stop these tradgeties, but HE uses these tradgeties to change people's heart.

 

If you know FOR SURE there are hell, after people die, some of them would go to hell and burning in there forever. If you know this, do you rather rebuke them in the earth for their sinful deeds; or do you rather just let them go to hell without any warning.

 

Let me ask you a question. If there is hell, what will you do for saving souls?

 

32 innocent young people died. but many will get wake up call from this tradgety, and begin to turn to God, so many souls get saved without experience the burning fire in hell. This is tough decision for God I believe. As little human being could not be possibly even THINk about these responsibilities. It is a choice between bad and relatively bad.

 

So let's look at the bright side, save as many souls as possible. What can you do about the human being deep rooted sinful nature?

 

Then another question: why do people ignore God and God commandments as possibly as they can, but when bad thing happen, they ask where is God???

 

Our anger direct to wrong direction. God did not want us to sin, God did not want people to kill people. On the contrary, God sent many messager to tell people about God and commandments, what did you see people's reaction? People don't listen, and laugh and ridicule

 

32 young people died, it is very sad. May God restore their souls in heaven. Heaven is beautiful.

 

I just find it amazing that you can assume this to be all true. Lonelybird, everything you've based your religious beliefs on are written in a book, not by God but by men who claim to be believers in God. Do you understand the difference? I could claim to know God, I could claim to have seen God in a dream and go out and write my own Bible -- would you believe me? Would you worship based on everything I've written? If not, why not? Why would you believe what is written in the Bible over anything that I've written -- and for chrissake, don't say it's because God wrote it -- God didn't write the Bible.

[lonelybird]

If I were to post that only greek people are the chosen, the ones to lead the world to utopia, the only ones that really have any meaning, and you need to claim to be a greek if you want to be in the Great People Club category..... well it is a tad arrogant to do so IMHO. And it is kinda mean. It is the "holier than thou attitude.

 

I am sorry I cannot agree that our flesh is evil or sinful..... my flesh and bone works to help others.... I have the scars to prove it on that flesh and bone.

 

I only help those that ask for it, I don't enter without invitation. To me that is rude........... that is one of my beliefs.

Did you see I waved my belief because a large group of people say so? Did you see I changed my belief if someone come out and say his religion is holier? That called immature in faith. I believe you've seen many belittle and attack to us, but did you see we change? No, we didn't. WHY? because we know the truth, Holy Spirit told us about God. Do you think we will betray our belief for people's opinion? NO

 

Yes, our flesh is sinful. I believe there is a right time you can see it. I didn't see them until God revealed them to me.

 

There is a person who loves others unconditionally, when he got offended, he quickly forgive. when another slap him, he loves the another back, forgive another, and continuely help another.

 

There is a person who hate others, he help others in order to get some from other. if others attack him, he attack others back.

 

What do you think how the former one look the latter one? yeah, the first one loves the latter one, but the deeds of the latter one is sinful in the first one's eyes.

 

And I didn't go into your house and put a gun on your head, did I?

 

We believers are saved by God's mercy and grace, not that we are better than other people, and partly because we so need God in our lifes. After we got saved, Holy Spirit is working in us, and it is Holy Spirit make us change, Holy Spirit dwell in humble souls because Holy Spirit is humble.

[amerikajin]

Did you see I waved my belief because a large group of people say so? Did you see I changed my belief if someone come out and say his religion is holier? That called immature in faith. I believe you've seen many belittle and attack to us, but did you see we change? No, we didn't. WHY? because we know the truth, Holy Spirit told us about God. Do you think we will betray our belief for people's opinion? NO

 

This kind of attitude is lethal. I wonder how many of the world's dictators have said the above.

 

You don't know the "truth", Lonelybird. Anyone who tells me that they do is asked not so kindly to get the f*** out of my sight.

[lonelybird]

I just find it amazing that you can assume this to be all true. Lonelybird, everything you've based your religious beliefs on are written in a book, not by God but by men who claim to be believers in God. Do you understand the difference? I could claim to know God, I could claim to have seen God in a dream and go out and write my own Bible -- would you believe me? Would you worship based on everything I've written? If not, why not? Why would you believe what is written in the Bible over anything that I've written -- and for chrissake, don't say it's because God wrote it -- God didn't write the Bible.

Holy Spirit told me it is true. There is a invisible being living inside of me, like many other believers. This invisible being taught about God, witness about Jesus, speaks wisdoms, and warn me dangers beforehand. There is a period I test about this Spirit, to see where He comes from. I didn't believe Him with all heart in the beginning. But after a while, I realize This Spirit is gentle, loving, leading me out of darkness. But still there are many other things and secrets Holy Spirit wants to teach me, or wait for right time. So if anyone say they are believer, but they still wave from side to side and want to please people rather than God, then I begin to think they don't get Holy Spirit yet.

 

Then why did God send Holy Spirit to me, not because I was better, was holier, because I was so desperate for love, was humble for sure because nobody pay attention to me, pressure, pressure and pressure, ONLY GOD has mercy for me. It is amazing how much did God change me. That's what I want people to see, if they know God and have relationship with God, the earth become prettier, kingdom of heaven contantly is in our heart on this earth.

 

I don't get why people think I have bad intention by telling them to have relationship with God and attack me obviously and unobviously.

[lonelybird]

This kind of attitude is lethal. I wonder how many of the world's dictators have said the above.

 

You don't know the "truth", Lonelybird. Anyone who tells me that they do is asked not so kindly to get the f*** out of my sight.

I didn't want people follow certain PEOPLE. I want them to see GOD, and have personal relationship with God on individual basis, so they won't get cheat so easily. That is the BIG difference with the dictators.

[amerikajin]

I don't get why people think I have bad intention by telling them to have relationship with God and attack me obviously and unobviously.

 

Because you are living in your own reality. I don't think people who live in their own reality are bad people, they're just a little disconnected from the reality of people around them.

 

Everyone lives in their own reality -- to a point. I can tell you that your reality is wrong, but if your reality is completely separate from mine, it will be impossible for you to receive my message. However, there are consequences for living in your own reality. You may find it difficult for people to relate to you, or for you to relate to them. You need to find a way to make your reality connect with the reality that others experience. Otherwise...you will always be a lonely bird.

[lonelybird]

Because you are living in your own reality. I don't think people who live in their own reality are bad people, they're just a little disconnected from the reality of people around them.

 

Everyone lives in their own reality -- to a point. I can tell you that your reality is wrong, but if your reality is completely separate from mine, it will be impossible for you to receive my message. However, there are consequences for living in your own reality. You may find it difficult for people to relate to you, or for you to relate to them. You need to find a way to make your reality connect with the reality that others experience. Otherwise...you will always be a lonely bird.

I picked lonelybird during the time I ignore God, this explain much:)

[amerikajin]

I didn't want people follow certain PEOPLE. I want them to see GOD, and have personal relationship with God on individual basis, so they won't get cheat so easily. That is the BIG difference with the dictators.

 

Bird, I'm not really upset with you, I'm upset with your thinking - that's all. Please don't take what I said too personally. Sorry if I came across a bit harsh. But seriously, think about it: you say you want people to follow God, but you're not giving them a reason to do so.

[lonelybird]

Bird, I'm not really upset with you, I'm upset with your thinking - that's all. Please don't take what I said too personally. Sorry if I came across a bit harsh. But seriously, think about it: you say you want people to follow God, but you're not giving them a reason to do so.

I believe most of time I did right here, cause Holy Spirit didn't rebuke me for that. If Holy Spirit rebuke me, I would give up that post at the spot.

 

Don't worry, you are nicer than others:p we are ok:)

[DutchGuy]

My beliefs are atheist.

I can't know that there is no god, as believers can't know if there is.

That would make me agnostic, but I refuse to believe in a "god".

I believe in science, the smarter part of the world's population.

Science proved that the Earth was spheric, before it could be seen from space. Science in that matter proved to lead to the truth, even the truth was still 'invisible'.

 

This is a simple example, but I study biochemistry and see numerous of examples each day.

For instance evolution.

There is a great example of evolution called "endosymbiont theory".

I'll try to simplify it.

In our body cells we have mitochondria, these are our 'engines'.

Mitochondria use oxygen to produce energy.

Now the funny thing is that they resemble oxygen-dependent bacteria.

Even funnier is that they have their own DNA (which is circular, as in bacteria).

And ofcourse, this DNA matches a great deal of the DNA of the bacteria.

Science believes that in the beginning, an anaerobic cell incorporated a oxygen-dependent bacterium and by doing so gained the abillity to use oxygen.

 

Now to the issue of a 'supernatural being'.

Ofcourse, I too was a naive kid once and wanted to believe in god and heaven (wouldn't we all).

And I can honestly say that I prayed and spoke to god.

He never talked back, never appeared and didn't do anything I begged for.

 

So the whole excuse that you have to be open to god to meet him is bogus, because I was.

 

I live my life without the help of god and I'm loving it.

I am in good health, my parents are, school's great, girlfriend too and I'm doing it all 'on my own'.

 

Gods are for the ignorant.

[Geishawhelk]

Gods are for the ignorant.

 

Do you mean "ignorant" as in, "those who have taken a decision without exploring every parameter and are therefore self-blinded to other possibilities"

 

or -

 

"ignorant" as in, "pig-thick who wouldn't see common sense if it waggled it's ass under their nose" - ?

 

Or possibly, the two together.....

[quankanne]

faith is ignorance? of the belief that science gives the only explanation? Sorry, guy, but my mind allows greater possibilities than just what the eye can see ... even Einstein didn't close his mind to the possibility of a Force Greater Than Himself!

 

back to the original question: How do I know my beliefs are right? They're right for me, they provide answers to my questions as well as a framework for a lifestyle. Ideally, many others would embrace my religious belief, specifically Christianity in the form of Roman Catholicism, but I'm bright enough to realize that the spiritual journey is highly individualized, and what works for me doesn't necessarily work for someone else. The most I can do is be a model of faith in action so that when others see my faith, they get a glimpse of a God who loves without reservation ...

 

to the posters who asked about the Vatican's "changing it's mind" about limbo and unborn children: don't ever, EVER put full stock into religion stories circulated by the secular media. At best, they have a minute understanding of theology because most writers/reporters are expected to be "instant" experts on whatever story they've been assigned. And it's easy to make quotes "fit" into the spin of the story you're piecing together. Been there, done that ... there's no such thing as unbiased reporting.

 

so when someone credits USA Today with "breaking" news on change in church teaching, it's laughable at best. There are much, much better news sources available on the Church, with stories written by people who are better versed in this theology because they're more than just pew potatoes ... <end rant>

 

USA Today gives a very misleading quote about limbo by Father Thomas Reese from the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University as saying he thinks "it shows that Benedict is trying to balance his view of Jesus as being central as the savior of the world ... but at the same time not saying what the Evangelicals say, that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus is going to hell."

 

however, according to Catholic News Service, the April 20 document "critiqued the traditional understanding of limbo, arguing instead that there was good reason to hope unbaptized babies who die go to heaven," pretty much a reassessment of "an issue in theological evolution."

 

it recognizes that teachings on limbo were never addressed in Scripture or that limbo was ever defined as dogma, according to the CNS story.

 

"The new document repeats traditional Catholic teaching that all salvation is through Christ and has a relationship with the church. But it emphasizes more than once that God's saving ways are ultimately mysterious and that the holiness that resides in the church can reach people outside 'the visible bounds of the church.'" – CNS

 

that falls more in line with the hope preached by the Church than what some idiot from a secular paper *thinks* he knows about Church belief ...

 

Gazoo – I'm truly sorry for your experience with that parish after losing your baby. My guess is that the priest chose to uphold a long-standing tradition "because it's always been done that way" than to give you as grieving parents hope of your child's eternal happiness with God. Remember the verse about how not even the sparrow escapes His eye? God loves all his creatures and yearns to hold us close to him, regardless of some of the dumb "rules" we make up because of imperfect understanding ...

[DutchGuy]

Do you mean "ignorant" as in, "those who have taken a decision without exploring every parameter and are therefore self-blinded to other possibilities"

 

or -

 

"ignorant" as in, "pig-thick who wouldn't see common sense if it waggled it's ass under their nose" - ?

 

Or possibly, the two together.....

 

'Ignorant' as in 'not knowing'.

They don't know about science, yet they claim that it is wrong, simply because they themselves feel that they must be right.

 

Believers always argue that atheists should read the bible, well I did.

I lived a fair portion of my life thinking there might be a god.

I experienced religion.

How many of them read a decent book on evolution?

How many of them experienced science?

 

Hell, kids should grow up with the bible, teach them the 10 commandments and let them think that nanna or spot went to heaven.

It's pretty useful material.

But please, as you start to grow older and think on your own, try to educate yourself with something that is REAL.

[quankanne]

don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, DG ... there are many out there who find science and spirituality compatible. Not all scientists are brainy non-believers nor all believers hesitant to embrace things scientific.

 

my guess is that you've encountered the extreme and now argue them as the bulk of believers ...

[a4a]

One will always believe that their beliefs are the correct ones as long as the belief serves them in some way.

 

Cut off the benefit of the belief and you stop believing.

[DutchGuy]

don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, DG ... there are many out there who find science and spirituality compatible. Not all scientists are brainy non-believers nor all believers hesitant to embrace things scientific.

 

my guess is that you've encountered the extreme and now argue them as the bulk of believers ...

 

Hey I'm a spiritual guy myself, but I don't believe in the super natural.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the world religions all clearly teach creation?

Subsequently, believing in god means you don't believe evolution.

 

You can't just believe some stuff that's in the Bible, it's all or nothing.

The bible is 'perfect' and 'truth', there are no compromises possible between the bible and science.

 

By science I don't mean English or history ofcourse, but the 'rocket scientist'-kind of science.

[quankanne]

not sure how believing in a Creator who gave talents and gifts to each of us would stop a believer from understanding that some of those talents result in the invention of rockets that take us to the moon or vaccines that protect our health. It's not that we don't believe in those things or say they're "bad," we just go one step further in crediting the Genius behind the genius!

 

The bible is 'perfect' and 'truth', there are no compromises possible between the bible and science.

 

and to repeat, ad nauseum, "The Bible is a written document of man's spiritual journey." It's only when people decide to make it into a purely historical or scientific document that these misunderstandings arise, and that there *can be no* compatibility in science and faith.

 

Subsequently, believing in God means you don't believe evolution.

 

says who? Proof of evolution is all around us – physically, mentally, emotionally and yes, even spiritually. To deny evolution is to deny your very own existence, IMO ...

[DutchGuy]

[...]

 

Subsequently, believing in God means you don't believe evolution.

 

says who? Proof of evolution is all around us – physically, mentally, emotionally and yes, even spiritually. To deny evolution is to deny your very own existence, IMO ...

 

Do you believe in intelligent design?

[amerikajin]

About as close to fundamentalist as I'll ever become is in the belief that whenever someone declares that they know "the truth" about God, about spirituality, about things that are beyond the description of our own realm of knowledge...whenever someone declares to *know* "the truth" about this, I am pretty confident they're not worth listening to. I know enough to know...there is so much we don't know. We can only speculate. This is, to me, the greatest flaw of fundamentalism, and it's the greatest, yet easiest, trap organized religion falls into. It is one thing to have a group study or philosophical discussion about what God might be; it is entirely different to pay blind allegiance to Church doctrine, and yet another matter to assume that your own interpretations about a Biblical passage or the world around you is complete.

[quankanne]

yep. And I believe that it works hand in hand with evolution. There's a starting point, and there's a period of refining ... voíla! and we get to where we are now, in every sense of the word. But hey, I tend to see things differently