How do you know your beliefs are right?

[DutchGuy]

yep. And I believe that it works hand in hand with evolution. There's a starting point, and there's a period of refining ... voíla! and we get to where we are now, in every sense of the word. But hey, I tend to see things differently

 

Evolution is the opposite of intelligent design.

Intelligent design would mean that the first lifeforms were destined to become humans eventually.

As where evolution is about co-incidence. We are what we are, but could have been something else just as easily.

[lonelybird]

So what do you think those prophets say, Isaiah, David....? Did they say "well, maybe God didn't tell me that! maybe God will not anger if people do bad things, PEACE, everyone, peace"

 

What do you think Jesus's disciples would say? Did they say "well, maybe you are right, maybe he is right too, maybe there are many ways to God, nobody go to hell, there isn't Holy Spirit, maybe we didn't hear from Holy Spirit"?

 

quankanne, did Lord tell you that "all religions will lead to Heavenly FAther"?

[quankanne]

lol, that's like telling a pregnant woman she might be carrying a babboon, a baby or a rutebega!

 

evolution, to me, is more of a process of refinement, where the essence of said "thing" grows to ultimately become it's finest self. Take man, for instance: As a baby, he is incapable of caring for himself, yet there's no mistake that he's a person. As he matures, his personality grows and becomes refined; his body grows and adapts to maturity; his spirit grows from simple understanding to a more complex belief (be it gnostic or agnostic); his emotions go from whining, screaming infant to a more controlled state (in most people).

 

the same things occur on a simpler cellular level, though it's not as evident (unless you're studying these kinds of things) ... think of how germs mutate and adapt, as do viruses ...

 

a virus strain is not interchangeable with a DNA strand, a dog's genetics are not interchangeable with a fish's, etc. We are intrinsically what we begin as, but life experiences and maturity help refine us.

[norajane]

Curious as to why some of you think your beliefs are right & others r wrong?

 

There's so many.

 

If your beliefs are based on the teachings of organized religions, it makes sense that you think others are wrong: organized religions and their doctrines are all about control and controlling people's behavior - and separating out those who don't believe and those who do.

 

Those who develop their own beliefs about spirituality and god tend to be more open to the idea that spirituality is more significant than following a proscribed methodology and set of beliefs to worship god.

[Geishawhelk]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the world religions all clearly teach creation?.

 

Nope...Buddhism doesn't. It's classified as an imponderable. because there are no absolute, concrete, definitive, irrefutable answers. So we suggest leaving well alone, because it messes your mind up, fuddles your thinking, and causes arguments. Like the fruitless ones on this thread at the moment.

 

Everyone wants to be heard.

Everyone wants to believe they're right, or that at least their point is valid.

Everyone is insisting on discussion, and counter discussion.

 

And will anything be completely solved by the time this thread peters out....?

Nope.

 

So to what end, then, if there is no answer to be had, that will satisy all...?

 

Subsequently, believing in god means you don't believe evolution..

Not strictly true....David Attenborough is a committed christian....

 

You can't just believe some stuff that's in the Bible, it's all or nothing.

The bible is 'perfect' and 'truth', there are no compromises possible between the bible and science.

 

So you believe someone can turn into a pillar of salt, or that a bush can burn without being consumed, or that a young girl of maybe thirteen or fourteen can bear a child without having had sex?

 

By science I don't mean English or history of course, but the 'rocket scientist'-kind of science.

 

Run that last bit by me again....?!

How can anyone define English or History as a science? I'm not quite getting you on that one....

 

With metta and karuna to all,

 

G.

[lonelybird]

If your beliefs are based on the teachings of organized religions, it makes sense that you think others are wrong: organized religions and their doctrines are all about control and controlling people's behavior - and separating out those who don't believe and those who do.

 

Those who develop their own beliefs about spirituality and god tend to be more open to the idea that spirituality is more significant than following a proscribed methodology and set of beliefs to worship god.

If say "control", only Lord can control you if you have close relationship with Him. He will send God spirit to you, then you can discern which is real sermon or speach from God, and which isn't; which is true faith, which isn't. Even Holy Spirit is with you, He give you free will to choose; but usually we obey His voice, because what HE advised is the best one.

 

If you have close relationship with Lord, you can discern who is false teacher, who is trying to control people's heart. If you have Holy Spirit with you, you even can discern who is a genuin man:D all for protection for YOU.

 

Lord don't want to control you, but save you and console you. HE knows people's heart

[norajane]

If say "control", only Lord can control you if you have close relationship with Him. He will send God spirit to you, then you can discern which is real sermon or speach from God, and which isn't; which is true faith, which isn't. Even Holy Spirit is with you, He give you free will to choose; but usually we obey His voice, because what HE advised is the best one.

 

If you have close relationship with Lord, you can discern who is false teacher, who is trying to control people's heart. If you have Holy Spirit with you, you even can discern who is a genuin man:D all for protection for YOU.

 

Lord don't want to control you, but save you and console you. HE knows people's heart

 

I didn't say god (or the Lord) is controlling. Organized religion, however, as it has been developed by men, is about controlling the population. It was developed specifically to control people and their behavior.

[RecordProducer]

Although God didn't stop these tradgeties, but HE uses these tradgeties to change people's heart.

I understand what you're saying: that if god (nature, the mega-parent above us or XYZ) wanted to educate us, he wouldn't do the job for us, but let us learn on our own mistakes. Just like parents don't do their kids' homework, but let them take responsibility.

 

Cute thought! The premise is that there is high intelligence above us that makes sense. Something like natural selection that creates ability to learn. After all, how would we know anything about human nature and how to treat its psychological cancers, if nobody showed us how evil looks like?

 

Nobody can support or deny your theory with certainty that it's (in)correct. I give you a credit for being so spiritual and seeking answers.

 

My personal view is that nature is more instinctual and biological than spiritual and intelligent. The species that have survived for billions of years are very primitive: crocodiles, lizards, etc. Why would God love crocodiles more than birds or dinosaurs? Many things can be explained more precisely from the Darwinist point of view than from that of Jesus. We know how genes mutate, evolve, alter, and disappear.

 

LonelyBird, you're doing a good job wandering through the corridors of spirituality, but you might benefit from exploring biology, psychology, and anthropology as well. Science has rational answers to some questions that people still answer irrationally because they read the bible and not the scientific literature. The bible was written 2,000 years ago. Many things have changed since.

[Moose]

Evolution is the opposite of intelligent design.

Intelligent design would mean that the first lifeforms were destined to become humans eventually.

As where evolution is about co-incidence. We are what we are, but could have been something else just as easily.

Say you're walking down the beach and you see a very nice watch wash up on the shore.

 

Do you think that it's possible that since the ocean has millions of metal, and crystal particles that they came together naturally forming springs, rods gears and put themselves together to form a functional watch?

 

Or do you think someone lost it?

 

I believe that once we know what God knows, we'll see how our so called, "evolution", and His Creation fit hand in hand.

[quankanne]

quankanne, did Lord tell you that "all religions will lead to Heavenly Father"?

 

Christianity tells us that. And I don't deny it. However, I also will admit that God is much, much greater than my understanding of him, and that I shouldn't try to peghole Him … he moves in mysterious ways to win the hearts of others, independently of how or what I believe, simply because he is God.

[amerikajin]

Evolution is the opposite of intelligent design.

Intelligent design would mean that the first lifeforms were destined to become humans eventually.

As where evolution is about co-incidence. We are what we are, but could have been something else just as easily.

 

I disagree with Intelligent Design being taught as a course in school because it doesn't really use the scientific method, and it's a subtle endorsement of theism, which isn't really what our schools should be using public taxpayer dollars for.

 

However, I don't think you can rule out intelligent design as possible explanation for our existence. Who says that God couldn't have programmed us to follow a specific sequence of development? Sounds far-fetched, I know, but it seems to me at least within the realm of possibility, however remote that possibility might be.

 

I have wondered whether or not the Universe is not itself God. But what created the Universe? How do you get something...from nothing?

[DutchGuy]

Say you're walking down the beach and you see a very nice watch wash up on the shore.

 

Do you think that it's possible that since the ocean has millions of metal, and crystal particles that they came together naturally forming springs, rods gears and put themselves together to form a functional watch?

 

Or do you think someone lost it?

 

I believe that once we know what God knows, we'll see how our so called, "evolution", and His Creation fit hand in hand.

 

Because I'm formiliar with watches and due to their complexity, plus the fact that it is a tool of man, I know that that watch didn't spawn from the sea. I'm sorry, have a strong suspicion.

 

Your problem is that you think you are the perfect life form.

From a egocentric point of view you decided that you are perfection.

 

It's like looking in the mirror and saying: "How lucky am I, to be exactly the way I'd like to be!"

You like the way you are, because you are.

It's like 2 atoms in the whole universe that at one moment collide, and you say:"What are the odds that those two atoms collided at exactly this moment?"

 

It seems unbelievable because you regard it as the perfect thing to happen, "it had to".

 

I've got news for you, we're not even perfect if you do think this was a set up, think about your appendix and other rudimentary organs, or even the fact that our backs aren't built for a lifetime of walking up straight.

[Moose]

Your problem is that you think you are the perfect life form.

Where in the world did you gather this from????!!!

From a egocentric point of view you decided that you are perfection.

Again.......WHAT??

I've got news for you,

I don't know how you've came to these conclusion, and frankly, it doesn't matter......but you need to back WAY off pal......you haven't any news that I haven't already chewed up and spat out......

 

I'd be the first person to admit to the world that I'm FAR from the perfect life form.....

[DutchGuy]

Weren't you created by god, to his own image?

And isn't god himself and what he makes perfect?

 

You are religious right?

[zeldazelda]

no one knows what's right, that's why it's called faith...you're putting trust in something you can't see or prove.

[quankanne]

created in his own *spiritual* image … you're very literalist, eh?

 

How do you get something ... from nothing?

 

bah! Now that Billy Preston song is running through my head. Bad AJ! Bad, bad!

[RecordProducer]

I have wondered whether or not the Universe is not itself God. But what created the Universe? How do you get something...from nothing?

You... and billions of other people wonder the same. My children have asked me the same question and I don't know what to answer.

 

I said: maybe our whole universe is just a molecule in somebody's tissue or part of a much bigger structure, that we can't even imagine. Maybe somewhere out there, some different natural or artificial form exists. Maybe everything is about time and traveling atoms. But what we can't understand is where is the beginning and end (if any). And if there's an end, what's on the other side. What the hell IS this all? Some kind of a joke? Is it all in our minds? When and why did everything start?

 

Whether there's god or shmod who initiated the universe, I don't give a f*ck. I want scientific answers!

[DutchGuy]

created in his own *spiritual* image … you're very literalist, eh?

 

How do you get something ... from nothing?

 

bah! Now that Billy Preston song is running through my head. Bad AJ! Bad, bad!

 

As in "how do you get god from nothing"

or "how can there be good and evil before anything?"

 

wait, I know the answer: there is no 'before god', right?

 

I don't know how you get something..from, presumably, nothing.

And I don't claim to know it.

[blind_otter]

I have wondered whether or not the Universe is not itself God. But what created the Universe? How do you get something...from nothing?

 

That's what I believe. God is the universe, the universe is God. Everything is interconnected.

 

Anyways, I have to side with the Buddhists on this one, AJ. Pondering this kind of stuff just leads to insanity. Who gives two sh*ts how you get something from nothing. I mean, it's pretty egotistical to think that we humans with our very linear, finite minds can grasp something as infinite as the universe.

[Moose]

Weren't you created by god, to his own image?

And isn't god himself and what he makes perfect?

 

You are religious right?

Not, "to", but "in", there's a big difference.

 

God, "creates", he doesn't, "make" anything.

 

He wants us to love Him by our own choice, thus He, (I would almost say reluctantly), gave us free will.

 

And as everyone knows......our free will is full of flaws, far from perfect.

 

The thing is, He knew that from the start and understood what that outcome would be, and had the solution already figured out.

[Moose]

I mean, it's pretty egotistical to think that we humans with our very linear, finite minds can grasp something as infinite as the universe.

AMEN SISTA!

[quankanne]

I don't know how you get something..from, presumably, nothing.

And I don't claim to know it.

 

I'm not quibbling that ... just saying that this is where faith steps in, when there is no suitable logical answer.

 

back to BP's mindworm ...

[lonelybird]

Weren't you created by god, to his own image?

And isn't god himself and what he makes perfect?

 

You are religious right?

Ego is defined by outside elements:

money, power, coolness:cool: , or popularity, or education level, own intelligence....

 

If a person define himself by ego, then he will have big problems in life. The bigger ego, the bigger trouble.

 

Have you heard people became stalker after the break-up? people have difficulty to let it go? people is pride? These are ego's work.

 

But as a child of God, God give us his Spirit, His Spirit is humble, don't exalt self above other human beings, this is opposite to egocentric. If a person has some talents, we see it as a gift from God, not from himself.

 

Spirit don't define Himself by outside elements. "make us in God's image" means God give us His Spirit, we are valuable life, not just a part of a big machine.

 

Through God's spirit we can feel Love of God. everywhere is love of God, the beautiful sceneries, the loving couple, the rain, the rainbow....how God send people to help people, how God build up helping systems for poor....

[lonelybird]

That's what I believe. God is the universe, the universe is God. Everything is interconnected.

 

Anyways, I have to side with the Buddhists on this one, AJ. Pondering this kind of stuff just leads to insanity. Who gives two sh*ts how you get something from nothing. I mean, it's pretty egotistical to think that we humans with our very linear, finite minds can grasp something as infinite as the universe.

Of course we cannot comprehend ALL, but Holy Spirit reveal about God and God's secrets, not ALL, but parts of.

How can a pot comprehend pot maker?

[pureinheart]

Curious as to why some of you think your beliefs are right & others r wrong?

 

There's so many.

 

Hey Virtual....my beliefs work for me, and I know in my heart there is only one way to God and that is through His Son Jesus Christ and I have no problem communicating my fact, although it is my fact....if others choose to hear me, cool, if not that is cool too.

 

Twenty years ago I was meet with a crucial decision....my life could not continue the way it had, something was missing. I had been brought to the cross of Jesus Christ as a small child through Catholicism, although when I got older the rituals didn't make sense.

 

Having studied many denominations concerning Christianity and having knowledge about other belief systems, the conclusion I have come to works for me. I took none of my searchings and studies lightly, always seeking the truth.

 

I am horrible concerning evangelism, although God has used me for the salvation of many as I will speak what I know, and if one does not like what I say then let's talk about something else, as I will not argue and am horrible with debates.