How do you know your beliefs are right?

[HokeyReligions]

Isn't that a little too easy?

I understand that every individual has his / her own believes which can be a mixture of bible-facts and personal believes, but...

Religions in general (in the traditional way) aren't compatible with science, because they are founded on holy writings, which are pertinent contradictionary to science.

 

So does that mean that most people don't see the bible, quran, torah as fundament for their believe?

But more the "There must be something out there"-feeling?

 

I used to have a lot of discussions with believers that were sceptic towards evolution, nowadays I get a lot of "evolution is very compatible with creation". This bugs me, believers tend bend their believes in order to integrate them into the presence.

 

The new pope stated that stillborns go straight to heaven because the whole idea of the Limbo was outdated.

I mean, something IS or ISN'T, you can't just change your mind about your believes because you feel different today than yesterday.

 

100 years ago, homosexuality was absolute sin in the world religions, today some of them accept it (WHAT THE F***?)

 

According to the bible, Earth is flat.

Yet the christian leaders decided to admit that Earth is spheric.

 

I know that you people are going to tell me that you don't follow the pope or the bible, but admit that your current believes are direct derivatives with the only exception being indecisiveness regarding all matters scientific.

 

And please, if you reply, don't quote a lot of bible verses or spiritual phrases. Try to understand what I'm asking and answer me clearly.

 

 

Like I said, its subjective. Religion and faith are flexible to the current society and scientific/technological advances humans have made. I don't think believers deny human progress because their forebears didn't understand it. They tend to understand that people 2000 years ago interpreted God's words as their society and their own understanding told them. The basic principle of the faith has not waivered - think 10 Commandments here - but the interpretation of the more subtle histories have evolved to fit current social behaviors. Don't work on Sunday and lose your job. Work on Sunday - but also take time from other activities to worship. I doubt if sheep herders back then stopped tending their flock on Sunday - sheep gotta eat too! "I'm sorry, I can't be a midwife today - hope your wife & baby survive, but it's it's Sunday" probably didn't fly.

 

Today a person has to work to pay the bills and care for their family and if that means they work on Sunday then that's what they do. They don't believe God will condemn them for it - they probably go to church in the morniing and thank God they have a job to go to in the afternoon. But lines get blurred with each interpretation, and also because we are, after all, imperfect humans and God provides that too.

 

Yes, I see that there is room for both. Including evolution. Something that people 2000 years ago didn't know about because the science of the time was not known.

 

A believer can say they firmly believe in the science of the Big Bang Theory. They can accept the science behind it. But they will attribute that Big Bang to being God's work. And who is to say it wasn't? We will never know. It is interpretation. Even if God came to earth and explained it in the scientific terms we know today there probably were not any people back then that would be able to understand it.

[HokeyReligions]

It was 100% truth for hundreds of years, count your losses and come to the conclusion.

Actually, "truth" and "fact" are two different things -- and neither was 100% for any length of time, except by those individual humans who choose to believe -in whatever they believe. This discussion is not new.

 

 

 

Well, you don't follow the pope or the bible do you?

But you are influenced enough by others to wonder if there might be a god.

The only influence is in the wondering. I'm human and just like the first person who ever wondered how it all began - I wonder too. Was life created by another? Was it an accidental coupling of energies? Where did those energies come from?

[Moai]

The only influence is in the wondering. I'm human and just like the first person who ever wondered how it all began - I wonder too. Was life created by another? Was it an accidental coupling of energies? Where did those energies come from?

 

Aspects of those questions are being examined as we speak.

 

It is possible that we were "created" by some being, but that is doubtful and doesn't really explain anything. Who, then created the Creator? And on and on? I have read believers say that God has always been here, but if God doesn't need a First Cause then why does the Universe?

 

The question as to why there is matter as opposed to not is a big one, and at this point it would seem that is unanswerable. In point of fact, does there have to be a "why"? Such a question is an entirely human construct, and given our limited abilities to perceive the Universe around us maybe that isn't the question at all.

 

The Universe behaves EXACTLY as we would expect if there were no designer or purpose. That being so, why assert one where it is unnecessary?

[Moose]

The Universe behaves EXACTLY as we would expect if there were no designer or purpose. That being so, why assert one where it is unnecessary?

Moai,

 

I don't mean any disrespect. However, I would like to know how you can state this as fact knowing that there is NO possible way that you, I, or any scientist on the planet to know EVERYTHING there is to know about the universe?

 

Your statement is false.

[fatal2myself]

i dont think that any belief is right in the whole sense of the word. for a belief to be as right as it can be, you have to feel comfortable with it. for me i found that comfort in wicca. organized religion just isn't for me, but it works for some people.

 

to find the right religion for you, do some research. get to know a bunch of them. that way, you'll be informed, and have a greater understanding and respect for other cultures.

[Moai]

Moai,

 

I don't mean any disrespect. However, I would like to know how you can state this as fact knowing that there is NO possible way that you, I, or any scientist on the planet to know EVERYTHING there is to know about the universe?

 

Your statement is false.

 

No, it isn't.

 

The Universe has no discernable plan. The conditions we see in the Universe are hostile to life as we know it. It is so vast, and we are on a small speck in a small solar system in a smallish galaxy--and an outer arm of that galaxy at that. 99% of everything that has ever lived on Earth is extinct. Our own Sun will burn out in 4 billion years, making this planet unable to support life. It is the height of arrogance to suggest that all of this was "created" just for us.

 

In about 5 billion years our galazy will collide with Andromeda, tearing apart solar systems and smashing stars.

 

Here on Earth, life feeds on life, feeds on life, feeds on life. Most creatures die horrible, painful deaths at the hands of yet another creature, or the parasites that infest their bodies eventually consume them alive.

 

The Universe existed for billions of years before humans evolved, and will do so long after we are gone, unchanged and uneffected.

 

If you perceive a plan and assert that there is one, you must provide evidence to that end.

[riobikini]

re:

 

Moai: "The Universe existed for billions of years before humans evolved, and will do so long after we are gone, unchanged and uneffected."

 

Unchanged??? Unaffected???

 

Is this what you're reading in TED.com or whatever it is you've been directing everyone to?

 

And as for this:

 

Moai: "In about 5 billion years our galazy will collide with Andromeda, tearing apart solar systems and smashing stars. "

 

In about five billion years. Calculated.

 

In that case, so much for this lengthy thread discussion.

 

Does it even matter -and why are we even wasting our breath?

 

So, whoever is left here (if anyone, by the time of the predicted collision) will become less than star dust -subatomic matter- and nothing will exist, no trace of human life or the planet our many cultures survive on.

 

How trivial it seems,then, with our impending doom as a species, to believe in anything -or anyone- or anything more that could spring from our lives while we do exist.

 

The vision of the extinction of human life and that explosive collision so far away in the future and the certainty with which you inform of it (over and over in so many of your posts) only serves to do two or three (very important -and some surprisingly wonderful) things.

 

On the negative end, the information has potential to smash, plunder and rob the most naive of their hope and inspiration for a more promising tomorrow but on the positive end, it has even greater potential to actually give reason to search for deeper meaning to this life, and to embrace the issues of our cultures, our humanity, and our planet -and exert stronger effort and more creative ways to improve our lives while we are still present here.

 

And perhaps, a third result from all these doomsday predictions -however true, false, or uncertain -is the crucial aspect of that very fine line of not knowing (but, yet, hoping) that there, indeed, is a God -just maybe- and that there is a "hereafter" waiting to be experienced Spiritually, and which should be looked after in the now .

 

And to which the "not knowing" issue remains a "wait and see" issue, and creates conditions under which any Spritual belief only grows stronger, bolder, and even more believing in the face of such precise and well calculated predictions as you point out.

 

With the expanse of time -about five billion years worth- lying ahead of us, I see only more opportunity to increase our understanding of this subject and to delve intelligently through our beliefs and the information we have learned from our studies of our planet, our universe, and us, the seemingly mere and fragile human being.

 

But because we know so much -I think it would be wiser to think in terms that we know so little- therefore, I see no reason to stop believing in anything.

 

At least, not yet.

 

And I think many readers will see my point -and agree- as well.

 

-Rio

[InsanityImpaired]

Does it require belief or faith for the sun to rise?

 

Does it require belief or faith for us to know that we will eventually die?

 

Does it require faith or belief to know that people need oxygen to live?

 

The first can be calculated, and has been calculated for at least thousands of years. It does not require faith for the sun to rise. It is a process, that is defined by the Laws of Physics. That does not mean we have a 100% accurate understanding of these laws - but the better our understanding of these laws, the less likely we are to make grave errors. And how good our understanding is, we cannot define - it is a logical impossibility.

 

The second is something we as humans, and possibly a few other species are aware of. But denial, or unbelief does not result in physical immortality. To think otherwise would be insane. And I have yet to see any belief or religion that states, that denying this fact / unbelief of this results in just that.

 

The third is something you cannot establish for yourself, by testing it yourself. After all, to prove it, you would simply need to kill yourself. The belief that we need oxygen does not alter the human physical make-up, nor does it inspire the oxygen to keep us alive.

 

Faith or belief do not alter the laws of Physics, Chemistry etc. It influences how we perceive these things, but that is about it. Despite all the faith the alchemists had in their methods they were never succesful in transforming lead into gold, simply because their science was flawed, and not because of a lack of faith.

 

We can have beliefs, but that may not be right - after all they are at best well-informed guesses, at worst ignorance raised to the level of mass indoctrination. I see no reason to add to the latter, and rather err on the side of the former.

[Moai]

re:

 

Unchanged??? Unaffected???

 

Is this what you're reading in TED.com or whatever it is you've been directing everyone to?

 

No, that is a paraphrase from Steven Weinberg, 1979 Nobel Prize WInner in Physics, who is currently a physics and astronomy professor at the University of Texas-Austin.

 

TED is a forum, for lack of a better term, for the world's greatest thinkers and doers to share their ideas and the advances they have made in their respective fields. I learn a great deal there, and I thought that others might enjoy the site, too.

 

And as for this:

 

In about five billion years. Calculated.

 

I don't know why you italicized "calculated", but it isn't that difficult. You see, galaxies are moving, and we can see them move and chart their course. Just like airplanes in the sky, ships on the ocean, or cars on the freeway.

 

In that case, so much for this lengthy thread discussion.

 

Does it even matter -and why are we even wasting our breath?

 

Wasting our breath? How does the fact that the Sun will inevitably burn out have anything to do with what we are doing now? People are suffering now, for example, so shouldn't we focus on that?

 

So, whoever is left here (if anyone, by the time of the predicted collision) will become less than star dust -subatomic matter- and nothing will exist, no trace of human life or the planet our many cultures survive on.

 

Star dust is not subatomic matter. And matter will still exist, but life as we know it won't. The Sun will burn out before the Milky Way hits Andromeda. Learned about this from watching NOVA on PBS.

 

How trivial it seems,then, with our impending doom as a species, to believe in anything -or anyone- or anything more that could spring from our lives while we do exist.

 

Yes, in the Grand Scheme of Things it is trivial, but we are alive now, and need to make the best of what is here and now.

 

The vision of the extinction of human life and that explosive collision so far away in the future and the certainty with which you inform of it (over and over in so many of your posts) only serves to do two or three (very important -and some surprisingly wonderful) things.

 

Maybe. But you do know that we could destroy ourselves in the next five mintues, right? I'd like humans to be around right up until our Sun goes nova, but we won't be unless we embrace a rational view of reality.

 

In the past, religious wars were localized, and their effects were felt mainly by the participants. Now, they effect everyone on the whole planet.

 

Such happening is certain. The math that proves this is the same that you use to determine who much money is in your pocket, or how long it will take you to get to work.

 

On the negative end, the information has potential to smash, plunder and rob the most naive of their hope and inspiration for a more promising tomorrow but on the positive end, it has even greater potential to actually give reason to search for deeper meaning to this life, and to embrace the issues of our cultures, our humanity, and our planet -and exert stronger effort and more creative ways to improve our lives while we are still present here.

 

As far as robbing people of hope, the Universe doesn't owe us hope. And I agree whole-heartedly with the second part of your paragraph.

 

And perhaps, a third result from all these doomsday predictions -however true, false, or uncertain -is the crucial aspect of that very fine line of not knowing (but, yet, hoping) that there, indeed, is a God -just maybe- and that there is a "hereafter" waiting to be experienced Spiritually, and which should be looked after in the now.

 

It is true that we cannot know what happens when we die. That said, how is that so many can be so certain?

 

I have no idea what happens when we die, but given what I know about reality and how the brain works I can reasonably conclude that "nothing" is probably right. Also, I can use my brain to analyze the assertions made by others to determine if their predicitions have any validity. So far, none can stand up to even cursory examination.

 

We can invent dieties of every conceivable sort (and have, it seems), yet what does that really explain? For example, does the idea of god really address the question of why? If it could be determined that Allah is actually the One True God, why Allah and not Vishnu? Or Thor?

 

And to which the "not knowing" issue remains a "wait and see" issue, and creates conditions under which any Spritual belief only grows stronger, bolder, and even more believing in the face of such precise and well calculated predictions as you point out.

 

As I haev written previously, spirituality need have nothing to do with believing in magic.

 

With the expanse of time -about five billion years worth- lying ahead of us, I see only more opportunity to increase our understanding of this subject and to delve intelligently through our beliefs and the information we have learned from our studies of our planet, our universe, and us, the seemingly mere and fragile human being.

 

Yep. But shouldn't we base this search for understanding on what we can know and what is common to all people?

 

All spiritual explanations arenot equal. For some, women are evil and tempt men into sin, and therefore must be covered at all times and kept in the home as much as possible. For others, it is genital mutilation, others reshaping the head....it goes on and on.

 

What arguments can one use against genital mutilation, say, if such a practice is based on religious belief (which it is)?

 

A Christian looks at a Muslim and determines him to be deluded. A Muslim looks at a Mormon and determines the same. A New Ager looks at more traditional believers and determines them all to be missing the point. Given that all of these systems use the same evidence in support of their own and denial of the others should give any thinking person pause.

 

What does it mean to be human? How does culture effect our pereption of things? How do humans determine meaning? What is actually going on in the brain during transcendental experiences? There are many more questions than that, of course, but the point is that we can learn more and get more satisfying meaning if we remove magic and wishful thinking from the equation.

 

I have made the assertion that dogmatic religious thinking is causing in the world right now. It goes beyond just violence and torture.

 

Consider: One of the largest Creationist groups in the world is from Turkey. They are an Islamic group, and have a book that has been translated into 59 languages and are distributed in 80 countries. Creationism is taught in schools in Turkey by law.

 

Turkey scores DEAD LAST amongst developed countries in science, math and economics. Such non-scientific anti-intellectualism effects absolutely everything. If you want to see a culture grow backward, keep your eye on Turkey.

 

Or the United States. The United States scores JUST ABOVE Turkey in the subjects listed above. And guess what---the US is DEAD LAST in acceptance of evolution. EVEN TURKEY is ahead of us.

 

But because we know so much -I think it would be wiser to think in terms that we know so little- therefore, I see no reason to stop believing in anything.

 

What about seer-stones? What about elves? What about unicorns, griffins, demons, zombies, et al? I am not being facetious, not only were those things really believed in for centuries, some of them are accepted by people RIGHT NOW. Should we start believing in those things again, or what?

 

At least, not yet.

 

And I think many readers will see my point -and agree- as well.

 

-Rio

 

I enjoyed your post.

 

At what point would you suggest we do stop believing such things? I amnot asking to be argumentative, I am actually curious if there is a point when yet will be reached?

[riobikini]

re:

 

Riobikini: "But because we know so much -I think it would be wiser to think in terms that we know so little- therefore, I see no reason to stop believing in anything.

 

At least, not yet."

 

 

Moai: " At what point would you suggest we do stop believing such things? I amnot asking to be argumentative, I am actually curious if there is a point when yet will be reached?"

 

 

When benefit of the doubt is attributed equally to the question of the existence of such a thing as an afterlife to be experienced Spritually.

 

I think it is a matter of "wait and see" -an individual discovery on the most personal and private level possible.

 

Therefore -not yet.

 

-Rio

[EnigmaXOXO]

Actually, RIO ...

 

According to the Mayan Calendar which ends in the year 2012 (which has been more accurate to date than our own) --- N.A.S.A which “predicts that the Sun will reverse its magnetic poles as it enters into the Milkyway galaxy in the year 2012” (for the first time in 25,000 years) --- The I Ching of ancient China (said to be the oldest book of prophecy in the world) ... We’ve only got FIVE years left to save and/or throttle each other’s souls!!

 

Of course, they had us all terrified of the Four Horseman during the big Y2K scare, and no one saw hide nor scare of them in spite of all the battery operated lanterns we received for Christmas that year. So I absolutely refuse to drink the poisoned Kool-Aid ... yet.

 

Okay, now I’ll try on something more serious:

 

When benefit of the doubt is attributed equally to the question of the existence of such a thing as an afterlife to be experienced Spritually.

 

It’s the “afterlife” part that abstains my total disbelief. Although my personal experiences would quickly be dismissed by any skeptic or non-believer (and rightly so) ... I can say for myself, without a shadow of a doubt, that something of us exists after our physical death. But what that is exactly ... and for how long ... I don’t know. Both science and religion fall short when trying to explain it.

[Moose]

Both science and religion fall short when trying to explain it.

I beg to differ. Christianity, (my choice religion), dictates that everyone has an eternal destiny. Scripture does indicate that our souls will either spend eternity in Heaven or in Hell. Both places, or destinations are explained as well.

 

To say that religion has fallen short explaining the, "after life", isn't a true statement.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I beg to differ. Christianity, (my choice religion), dictates that everyone has an eternal destiny. Scripture does indicate that our souls will either spend eternity in Heaven or in Hell. Both places, or destinations are explained as well.

 

That’s where it falls short for me. It only explains “both places,” and mentions very little about the possibility of anything that might exist in between.

 

To say that religion has fallen short explaining the, "after life", isn't a true statement.

 

It’s very much “true” ... for me. While whimsical and fantastical in a fairy-tale sort of way, I don’t by the notion of gold-laden palaces floating in the sky ... or empty planets bestowed upon the faithful and their wives to rule and populate. Just to name a few. Although I won’t begrudge others who put a lot of faith and hope in such things, it is my hope (and belief) that the ascertaining of power and material wealth are vices of the ‘flesh’ and not the eternal pursuit of our greedy, immortal souls. Not much good to be learned or gained “spiritually” in that. As a matter of fact, it’s one of the best lessons I intend to take away from my short time spent right here. And I don’t even GO to church!

[Moose]

That’s where it falls short for me. It only explains “both places,” and mentions very little about the possibility of anything that might exist in between.

Without going into quoting scripture, our belief is when we die, we are present with the Lord however, we are, "asleep" until the second coming. At that time, those who've placed their belief in Christ will rise and meet Him in the air. Those who haven't placed their faith in Christ will be judged and condemed. This may be the, "in between" you're looking for.

 

Before I get slammed about a loving God sending souls to hell let me explain something.....

 

It's not God's will that He has to do this. And it's not God who makes that choice. We are all born into our sinful nature. It's our decision whether or not to remain in our sin, or accept the fact that Christ paid our sin "debt".

 

Does that explain how Chritianity views the, "afterlife"?

[EnigmaXOXO]

At that time, those who've placed their belief in Christ will rise and meet Him in the air.

 

Sounds like a UFO abduction! Then again, that’s another religion all together.

 

Just having a little fun, Moose.

 

Does that explain how Chritianity views the, "afterlife"?

 

My parents are staunch Christians (Roman Catholics) ... my father a retired alter boy. If you knew him, you’d be grinning at the irony, too. Then again, I was raised in a traditional Italian family (second generation immigrants) whose ties to home were deeply rooted in the Vatican.

 

So, although I may have stepped away from the “group think” and rigidly of certain Christian beliefs, I understand your explanation more than you know. But I’m HAPPY to see it written in your own words rather than the usual cut-n-paste scripture we often see. Sorta makes the ideas on the screen seem more human than pre-scripted rhetoric. You know?

[Moose]

Sorta makes the ideas on the screen seem more human than pre-scripted rhetoric. You know?

Yes. I do. I think the, "cut-paste scripture method" sometimes does more harm than good.....

[riobikini]

re:

 

Enigma: "I don’t buy the notion of gold-laden palaces floating in the sky.."

 

" Although my personal experiences would quickly be dismissed by any skeptic or non-believer (and rightly so) ... I can say for myself, without a shadow of a doubt, that something of us exists after our physical death. But what that is exactly ... and for how long ... I don’t know. Both science and religion fall short when trying to explain it."

 

"Although I won’t begrudge others who put a lot of faith and hope in such things, it is my hope (and belief) that the ascertaining of power and material wealth are vices of the ‘flesh’ and not the eternal pursuit of our greedy, immortal souls. Not much good to be learned or gained “spiritually” in that. As a matter of fact, it’s one of the best lessons I intend to take away from my short time spent right here. "

 

E, (Smile) -it's good to see the "pleasantness" return to this thread, again.

 

In just those few words you wrote about the Mayan calendar and other doomsday predictors in a just-previous post, you may have made it a little less intimidating for others wanting to post their views with that one light-hearted comment, although, I get your serious point in making it.

 

Thanks -you made me smile and got things back on track, here, by making an open discussion a friendly open discussion where everyone can offer their ideas and views on this subject without the feeling of being under attack.

 

My -what a few nice words and a little humor can do!

 

As for the notion of "golden-laden palaces", I am not so certain, either, about them.

 

In his book, "Saved By The Light", Dannion Brinkley details his near-death life experiences and describes what he calls a Crystal City of Light.

 

He was surprised to "see" no "gold-laden palaces" -or streets made out of gold.

 

Raised in South Carolina and steeped in traditional Southern christian teachings -after his first NDE (he had more than one)- Brinkley found himself having to readjust his thinking concerning his whole concept of God, an afterlife, and even the terms and circumstances that he'd long held regarding the origin, and makeup, of both humankind and religion.

 

His is only one account of an NDE, but I think it's one of the most detailed and interesting.

 

As for science and religion falling short of explaining the possibility or reality of an afterlife -I still hold fiercely to the belief that it is such a personal matter that neither science nor religion, itself, has #1 the authority or #2 the capability to dictate, prove or disprove to anyone its existence or non-existence.

 

It's that personal.

 

I think it's supposed to be that way, since it concerns all possible aspects or parts that make up an individual.

 

As for the "eternal souls' " possible goal in achieving more honorable characteristics which may endure into a hereafter -yes, I agree.

 

If a hereafter does exist it would only make sense that whatever character you have developed while in your human physical form will follow you and will have shaped you to whatever degree you have cultivated up to that point.

 

Beyond that, (as in "beyond the physical life") I think your character (personality, moral standards, and desire to do "good" included) will be expanded, enhanced, and clarified with a much greater understanding of all the "why's" you ever asked, all the other questions that ever confused you, and all the mystery that ever escaped your grasp.

 

I think our "gray matter" is much more than a brain -that our mind is the essence of our soul and that our heart is the essence of our spirit.

 

And I think those things last beyond the veil of human flesh and it's impending rot.

 

As for the judgement of those things that we are, have been -and suspecting that we take take those results with us to an afterlife- I believe that being allowed to view those results through the eyes of a greater understanding will be the ultimate judgement received.

 

I think it may work like this: with the ability to review our lives through the eyes of greater understanding (obtained directly at the moment of our physical death from The Source of The Universe, a.k.a., God) that allows us to see how our actions, words, and influences affected all others we came into contact with, we will -in a most surprising, real sense- be judging ourselves.

 

The effect that judging ourselves with a ruler of that infinite measure can only accomplish a sense of initial overwhelming humbleness, and the most clarifying view of where we acted poorly or deliberatly or non-deliberatly failed in acting with compassion and kindness, etc., as well as where we gave our very best and acted with as much compassion, understanding, and favorable and acceptable behavior as we knew at the time.

 

I think our failures will not stand against us if we feel overwhelmingly compelled at that review to accept the sense and desire to be forgiven of our failures and shortcomings -release them- with emphahsis on the ones that were deliberate.

 

For those whose characters in that review choose to remain bitter, or resistant to the gift of this ability to see every angle of their actions, and refuse immersion into that sense of incredible forgiveness under those unique conditions, and who are unwilling to embrace this compelling invitation -I think they will remain in in a spiritual dimension where they will not "pass" through, and where those who do pass through will be privy to even greater experiences that await them.

 

While we can only guess, I do agree with you that something -some part- of us does exist after our physical death.

 

Whatever that is, can only hoped for and believed in while we live in a physical body.

 

I think it's important enough to keep thinking about, searching for, and certainly, discussing among ourselves.

 

Again, thank you, Enigma, for getting this thread back on topic and giving us all opportunity to keep expressing our views and ideas about this very personal and incredibly interesting subject.

 

-Rio

[EnigmaXOXO]

As I look back over my own life and take honest inventory, and wonder about what may or may not lay ahead, my entire belief system (or lack thereof) can be summed up in three words:

 

I’m not afraid.

 

Even if this were it, and there were no second chances or anything else to look forward to, I go out a happy camper. No accumulated regrets, no begging for more time to go back and make it right, no wishing that I had done things any different. It’s been one helluva ride, all the good and even not-so-good moments. Each one a cherished blessing. Each one a valuable lesson. And even though my short existence is nothing more than an insignificant speck in time, I’m appreciative for every single moment, having spent it right where I am, as who I am, with all the other folks who crossed my path and shared it with me.

 

Wouldn’t dare hope for anything more than I’ve already been given. I don’t know why ... but for me there’s a lot of “peace”, right here, right now, to be found in that without pinning ALL my hopes that it exists for me somewhere else.

 

As long as I don’t get stuck haunting some dark, musty attack with the mothballs and spiders ... It’s ALL good!

[riobikini]

re:

 

Enigma: "As I look back over my own life and take honest inventory, and wonder about what may or may not lay ahead, my entire belief system (or lack thereof) can be summed up in three words:

 

I’m not afraid.

 

Even if this were it, and there were no second chances or anything else to look forward to, I go out a happy camper. No accumulated regrets, no begging for more time to go back and make it right, no wishing that I had done things any different."

 

A great chunk of "proof" that you're doing something right!

 

(Smile)

 

With all the conventional traditional avenues to God well-advertised, and God-stuff taking on some pretty "out there" theory and projection more than ever, I think the whole idea of religion too often overlooks the value of the gift of the time we spend on our planet, earth.

 

Many older religions seem to have had more of an awareness of -and a respect for- the "here and now" (for example, "don't damage the environment you depend on for survival") as well as practicing their beliefs about what may lie ahead in a hoped-for spiritual realm.

 

Native American beliefs still teach that kind of awareness and respect for nature -as well as respect among their people and a sense of community where everyone is responsible in looking out for the best interest of another.

 

Giving all well-due credit to those who are turned-off and disgusted by God-stuff and religion because of its difficulty or inability to explain why The Great God Of The Universe never seems to intervene in a natural crisis, or allows very tragic things to happen in our lives -there does, at first, when you look at our conditions and plights and all the damage left for us to deal with- seem to be more than enough reason to avoid being "brainwashed" into becoming believers, or that there does exist any Powerful Being anywhere in the universe -at least, one who cares about this tiny planet and the humans who inhabit it.

 

If He is so supernatural, so powerful, and so loving -then why doesn't He react to these things? and why doesn't He prevent them from happening?

 

I, myself, am waiting for that answer.

 

But still there is something in me pulling me forward -not pushing- drawing me towards Something Greater which I cannot explain.

 

And so, because of that "clue", I am patient in my wait.

 

In 1997 neuroscientists from the University of California discovered what they called a "God module" in the gray matter -the brain- of humans.

 

They believe it could be the area where we entertain and pursue "good" or "Godly" thought, things of a Spiritual nature, and benevolent, compassionate actions of superior standards -and they believe it may be something that all human beings are naturally born with.

 

If so -it might explain some of our self-awareness of "good and bad", "right and wrong", and our fervor to pursue The Unexplained Unseen Almighty -but how would it fit in with our human tribal wars, destruction of our planet's natural resources, and our acts of hatred, violence, cruelty, and discompassion?

 

We seem to also have a built-in destructive nature.

 

It is curious, though, to think we have the ability to act or not act on our thoughts while being genetically innoculated with this God-awareness and still choose to make such darkly conceived decisions to destruct, violate, and disrespect other fellow humans.

 

It must be that "free-will" thing so many talk about.

 

And I think it is.

 

We would be prisoners and slaves with a Master without the ability to think and act freely, and reap whatever consequences or rewards we cultivate.

 

I think that -because of the Something within us that draws us forward, there may be much more ahead than we perceive in regards to our life in our physical bodies.

 

And -because of the importance of what may lie ahead- it makes sense that it would be crucial for decisions pertaining to it be made here on this planet, using all the faculties of this body, this life, heart, and mind, -to cultivate such character as will be measured later.

 

And that requires freedom of a will to do so.

 

Although, I am not, by any means, an authority on religious concepts (and the mere thought is ridiculous) -nor make any attempts to say that I know (proof being key) that all the things I have talked about are exactly as it truly is -I can still, as intelligently as I am able, make these choices and decisions for myself.

 

You can, too -everyone has that right.

 

And we're right back to where we started: God-stuff -whether you believe, what you believe, and when you decide to start believing it -is all an individual choice.

 

In the meantime, if our lives are happy, we're well and our wife/husband, family and children are all fat and happy, and we have a peace inside of us that's sweet, steady and serene, then some Divine Someone, somewhere could be smiling on us.

 

And who's to say He isn't.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[RealityCheck]

Love Hurts, did you hear the latest? The RC church has revoked it's stance on unbaptized babies going to limbo. If that's the case, due to original sin, are the millions and millions of babies who've lived in limbo for milleniums now being shuttled to hell?

 

OMG! Now this is sick!

 

Free Will is a chosen belief! This report is nasty as the whole definition of Hell!

 

Any consciousness that could even dream of such a report requires "Self Assessment".

 

To condemn little innocent babies!!!!!

 

Sin is a man-made taught thing and not spirit driven!

 

With all the blood that runs through my viens......I am boiled to an all time fiery with this report! With all the fire in me this is nothing short of Hell!

 

Now I ask!!!! Who now is playing "GOD"!!!!

 

Shame! Shame!

[riobikini]

RC -like you- I've never bought the idea, either, of the innocent and those not yet equipped with the ability or the time enough to gather info to make a reasonable decision winding up being punished for anything -especially that which they do not yet understand.

 

I think the whole "Original Sin" concept may have been derived from folks looking around -at themselves and their fellow humans- and seeing the results of some taking advantage of their free will -ignoring the option to do good- and acting on what appeared to be an inherent, in-born influence or desire to act with violence, deceit, and all manner of the worst behavior that human kind can think up or accomplish.

 

I think, after looking around and figuring that human nature simply had to be "born" with this negative characteristic, they blended it loosely with the reasonable idea of free will that occurs at an individually determined point of maturity, and concocted the seed of a religious belief that wound up condemning even infants who did not fall precisely into the category of their devised concepts and religious "laws", to a place they call "hell".

 

Others who would fall into the same category -outside "salvation" would include the mentally deficient.

 

To me -this is not only the intentionally devised cruelty of humans seeking to control others through fear (perhaps, more politically devised than all that "God-focused")- but it is also a demonstration of how small a concept of God human beings can have -and perpetuate.

 

Such preposterous ideas of these religions do exactly the opposite of what they promote themselves to be -enticing others to a greater understanding of a benevolent and loving, and just God, which -somewhere along the mainstream- turns out to be a picture of a very cruel, stern God who appears to have a tendency for a violent temper and a twisted sense of justice and seems more concerned with punishment than anything else.

 

No wonder people are afraid when they fail to "please" God! -not to mention that begging for forgiveness (for some) could be a full time job (Smile.)

 

As for those "failures" and discrepancies and falling outside of the "laws" of any religion based on any view of a Great I AM -I think those failures, (all, collectively) are sometimes, and to some degree- *exactly* what is needed to draw a person forward, hone him, shape him, and mold him in some way that has potential to improve his character and begin to show him a more clarifying picture of God -and in just the measure of God that he needs at that time in his life.

 

I think no experience of a human being -good or bad- is intended for waste.

 

And that goes for even the fiery emotion felt when one hears of such an idea that innocent babies and children and others not capable of understanding their impending punishment may -according to religious "law"- wind up in such a place as the well-described "hell".

 

I think feeling those emotions and testing them against reason only reinforces one's resolve to seek the true God of the Universe for themselves -and if you do- you will learn that He is so much more than any religion gives Him credit for.

 

-Rio

[RealityCheck]

I think no experience of a human being -good or bad- is intended for waste.

 

And that goes for even the fiery emotion felt when one hears of such an idea that innocent babies and children and others not capable of understanding their impending punishment may -according to religious "law"- wind up in such a place as the well-described "hell".

 

I think feeling those emotions and testing them against reason only reinforces one's resolve to seek the true God of the Universe for themselves -and if you do- you will learn that He is so much more than any religion gives Him credit for.

 

-Rio

 

Well said!

 

I could not agree with you more!

 

Thanks for sharing.