Packing, what now?

[Gunny376]

I want to share my thoughts with you because I was just like your H & hopefully it will share some light on how he is thinking to help you kind of understand the other side.

I don't want to make you feel worse & don't feel sorry because you didn't understand his side either. In my case it had a lot to do with lack of communication and lack of education.

 

Me & my W got married very young, we both moved from living with our parents to living together as a married couple & as Gunny has said many of times; we didn't know squat about being married we were "JUST IN LOVE"!. She was very shy & even though I was also shy I was a little more outgoing. I grew up in a family that when something was broke you fixed it, she grew up in a family if something was broke you had to call someone to fix it & I really think this is what started our problems that we are having now. When something would break I fixed it, when something didn't go right I tried to fix it so slowly I started taking control of what was going on in our relationship. Since the W was the quite one she didn't speak up, she just went along with what I said to make me happy. When she grew up at school she didn't have many friends so she was just glad to do what I wanted to make me happy, which now we see wasn't a good thing. Like your H was doing to you, I was also doing to my W. I was treating her more like a child then my spouse.

Now she wants her independance, whats to make her own choices but I didn't let her because "I" felt she wouldn't make the correct one because I have been doing most of them for her all her life.

What I didn't realize is "I" didn't give her the chance to make her own decision to learn from her mistakes. I felt I was taking care of her like a husband should be, I didn't see it as controlling at all.

 

I really believe your H thought he is/was doing the best thing for you because I felt I was doing the best I could do for my wife. I was looking out for her, I was making the choices for her so she wouldn't make the wrong ones. Funny thing about that is I never thought that maybe I would make the wrong decision myself because I felt what I told her was the right thing to do. Kind of like my way is always the right one. In my post I used an example of driving home from the store. She asked me which way she should go?

Now that I look back at it there is no right way or wrong way. There are all kinds of ways to get home but the important thing is you get home. I always thought the way I went home was the correct way when it was just my way.....

After she moved out I was so lucky to find LS & the first few posts were pretty tuff on me. I was hit right between the eyes with a 2X4 & it woke me up or should I say it shocked me that people would talk to me like that but that is what I needed, I read it, then I read it again and again and finally it started to sink in that my controlling wasn't right, that what "I" thought I was doing was not right at all. I'm pretty hard headed so it took many posts from people to finally get threw to me but it started to.

I started to read books & learn and then I started to realize that how I was treating my W was wrong and then I started to cry & I cried a lot but not because she moved out but because of how bad I treated her all these years. I started to get angry with myself on how bad of a person I was but the more books I read and the more support I got from people her on LS the better I felt.

Then Gunny said something to me that has stuck with me & will stick with me to the day I die. He said; when I get up in the morning to tell myself that I don't ever want to be that old person, that I won't ever be that old person and from that day I have worked to be a better person. I am the only person I can change or have control over & that has been something I will have to work on very hard every day.

 

I can't say I blame myself for how I acted because to me I thought I was doing good, my job as a husband and I have a feeling your H feels the same way, teaching & taking care of the W so I excepted that I can't blame myself for that, but what I have learned is if I do it again or go back to that old person then I am to blame because "I" do know better now. You can't blame someone for something they don't know but you can be blamed for it if you didn't learn your listen.

 

Both you & your H are learning right now. You are both learning that you see things differently then you really thought they were. You see it as controlling, he sees it as watching out for his DW. I feel a lot of this is lack of communication & lack of learning. Gunny has said it many times how we have to go to school for this or that, but how many classes do they teach about marriage or relationships??

 

If your H is honest with himself & he looks at the help as a possitive thing I really do believe he will come out a better person. He will see things so much different or at least I do. Even my outlook on life has changed, how I see other people. I really do believe that if he looks at it as I have done in a positive way you will see a different man come out at the end of that tunnel.

 

I think ilmw can agree with some of what I am saying because he has grown & learned so much about himself as well as many others here on the board. The biggest thing I feel is you have to want to do it for yourself and that's the bottom line. If your H opens his eyes to seeing things differently then what we have done in the past that will be a great benifit for the both of you.

 

 

WOW!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

DAMN PERRY!!!!!!!!

:bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: :bunny:

 

I guess you can forget getting a job with GEICO doing tv commercials!! You've really have evolved over the last several months!

[MoonGirl]

Hi RF,

 

How are you doing?

[redfathom]

Hello Moongirl,

 

I am good. We had out first MC this moring and our therapist is nice. My husband told me later that she did not focus on the things I need to change so I told him next time we will discuss that.

 

What she did talk about was that my H needs to be more flexible to my cleaning and pick his battles and think is it worth fighting about or should I just pick it up. She said, "Progress not Perfection." My H said he would try. I told her that I trusted his judgment more then my own and I put him in the role of decision maker and parent and that now I want my power over that back. I said, I do not want to say that my H is controlling, she said that there is a power struggle over some changes and that is being controlling. She said he may have my best interest in mind, but he is still being controlling. I told her it is not like I do not trust my H to make decisions I just want to make them myself. I guess my H felt a little ganged up on because she seemed to side with me on the cleaning part.

 

My H had brought up that I am very independent and have hobbies and intrests. My H told her I am a great artist and she was very impressed and asked (I love this) wow, well, how many of your pictures do you have hanging in the house? I said, one. She asked why and I said, well, my H does not think they go with the decor. So she said, a home to me, should be a place where you surround yourself with the things you love. I was happy about that because that has been a sore spot for years.

 

 

I told my H later I am not in therapy for validation, I am there because I have a need and a want to change and I will not let your issues be the only ones discussed so during the next meeting I will make sure we talk about my issues with porn.

 

My H then went to see the therapist on his own. They may put him on depressents. The therapist said his OCD and Stuttering are all associated with Anxiety. My H is actually pretty excited about working on himself and us. He said there are a lot of issues from his past that have unfortuantly cause some issues in the relationship and that by working on those we can work on the marriage.

 

Our therapist seemed to think that dating would be good. My H and I both agreed last night that we would not be spending the night together, just dating. Tonight we are going to the book store to get "The 7 Principles of Marriage". My H has a little ADD so we will read it together then stop every few pages to discuss what we think it means to each of us.

 

So I think my H is on his way to making progress.

 

How are you doing today?

[redfathom]

Also, she also told my H he should thinks like this:

 

"Bless this mess." She said, that when I leave the toothpaste out and he has to put it away to be glad that I am in his life.

 

When he brought up about me leaving my hair in the shower she said, well she does have a lot of beautiful hair.

 

Then he brought up the cat box, which is an issue I need to work on, and she asked him if he ever cleans it (because he gets on me to do it all the time) he said, no because she wanted the cat. Then she said, well if the cat makes her happy sometimes you can clean it because you know she loves having the cat. Which I do not agree with 100% and I will continue to clean it.

[PWSX3]

Then he brought up the cat box, which is an issue I need to work on, and she asked him if he ever cleans it (because he gets on me to do it all the time) he said, no because she wanted the cat. Then she said, well if the cat makes her happy sometimes you can clean it because you know she loves having the cat. Which I do not agree with 100% and I will continue to clean it.

Red I have to tell you our stories are so much alike just different issues we fought about. My W wanted a dog, she said she would clean up after him but I really think that she wouldn't do it because that was a way of her being control over me & what I wanted her to do.

Now that she has her own place & she has one of the dogs she has to clean up after it and it sounds like she does a pretty good job of it now, so maybe like in our situation there is/was that who is in control on things you didn't even think that it might be an issue. I don't know for sure & like I said that is just kind of my thoughts, but after talking to our counselor it kind of makes since to me that maybe our spouses don't do things like we think they should because it is a way of controlling the situation not because they don't want to do them.

 

Another "big" issue we had was the W liked lighting candles & I didn't like the smell so I would just blow them out. What we should have done is put our heads together and figure out a scent that wouldn't bother me so then I wouldn't have minded the smell & she could have had her candles but instead she blamed it all on me. I'm not 100% sure but it doesn't sound like she lights them now that she has the choice at her place & I have found a smell that I like so I light them once in a while. She even committed the other day when she came over that I had a candle going.

 

Anyway it just might be something you ask your counselor & see what she has to say.

[Gunny376]

"Whooooo, hold up there, Trigger!" (Sorry, I'm dating myself ~ FYI, Trigger was Roy Roger's horse ~ )

 

This tread has gotten so long I had to go back and review the issues

 

So, we got:

 

Porn Addiction

Masturbation

His wanting to explore his sexuality with OW, OM, and Trannies

Cats

Litterbox

Housekeeping issues

Husband's Controlling Behavior Issues

Communication Issues

 

If I missed anything RF, then let us know so we can all get back on track here.

 

I'm guessing that you and the DH haven't even begun to get into it with the couselor about the sex issues ~ and you may want to seek out another qualified counselor (i.e. a sex counselor) to confront those issues.

 

Conuselors are people just like you and I, abiet they generally have at least a Master's Degree and are liscensed by the state, but they still have their own personal moral and religious convictions. You may have to shop around for the right one.

 

Personally, I don't believe that he's so much wanting to explore his sexuality so much as he wants to define it ~ that is to say ~ he for whatever reason has a need to have sex with other men, women, and trannies ~ and as has already been stated ~ infidelity is a deal breaker weather it be with another~ whatever?! Its the rare bird that has enough self-control, self-discipiline, to deny themseleves sex.

 

I can walk away from any woman ~ but I've been conditioned and trained by the Marine Corps in self-discipline and self-control, and to not to react on impulse over the course of twenty-years! That, and having gone throug a divorce, paying child support at the azz, gone through a bankruptcy, problems with the IRS because of the XW, etc ad nausemn ~ you damn right I can turn my back on sex! There's that and being older ~ and knowing and understanding that sex without love ~ ain't worth a damn ~ its just another form of masturbation with a vagina.

 

I'm currently reading Dr. Phil's book, "Relationship Rescue" and in the back of the book it shows a "chart" of sex between a man and a woman. A man can generally go from sexual satisfaction in less than 5 minutes, while a woman needs at least 15 just to get into it, and a good 30 minutes to experience "good sex"

 

You're only 24, and I'm here to tell you, that you really just don't know how young you are. In a way, its good that you're going through this ~ because you're definately are going to learn and grow from it! I just don't see your DH doing so.

 

I think at the very least he's Bi, Gay, or at least transgendered. Either way, I see a world of hurt raining down on you if you stay with this guy. As Lady Jane, you were only 14 when you got with this guy, when he was 20. That in my book speaks volumes!

 

As far as cleaning house goes, taking care of cats, litter boxes ~ quit beating yourself up over it. You know what? Its a "learned skill" to learn how to juggle it all. Your not the first wife to struggled with it and you want be the last! Here's a site that will help you out with it:

 

http://www.flylady.net/

[redfathom]

Good Morning Gents,

 

First PWSX3, yes we actually did talk with the MC about control and power. She said it is the same way with everyone, "no one likes to be told what to do!" She said that to my H as a you can make a suggestion but don't follow me around the house telling me what to do and how to do it.

 

As for the candle thing, maybe this is my young age speaking, but that is kind of rude (what your wife did). I mean if the smell bothered you, which I understand my H is the same, then she should have given them up.

 

Our MC made mention of this, there is a difference between trying to tweak someone and trying to get them to change there personality. I mean if the smell bothered you I am sure you are just sensitve to those things like people with allergies. I am not sure how you can be blamed for genetics.

 

As for the cat box, I am just a bad pet owner. I make it a point now, when I go over to see my H to immediatly clean the cat box (so it becomes a habit). Besides it not being fair to my H to take care of something I promised to be responsible for, it is not fair to the cat.

 

Gunny,

 

The MC asked what kindof porn my H watches and he was very upfront and told her exactly what kind. He was molested as a kid and his mom was not there for him AT ALL so when he ran away from home he was involved in a homosexual relationship. He told the MC that being molested has distorted his views on sex and what he does and does not like (which is understandable). He said regarding the homosexual relationship, he was lost and needed affection and that was the person who was willing to give it to him (which he says now was inappropriate). Things like this mess with a person. Above all I think he really values affection and love. Because of this and because I believe he is sincere, I do not think he will cheat on me. I think he has certain sexual desires that he is confused about but above all I believe 100% that he does not want to and will not hurt me. If we were apart I know 100% that he would experiment.

 

I can say that this is a learning experience, either way I will come out on the other side stronger. I do not know if the other side means being single or married, but there is an other side and I will be strong enough to handle anything. I have always knowen that no matter what I WILL BE OKAY.

 

I said, very first thing yesterday to the MC, my age is a HUGE factor in the relationship and she agreed she said I went from a young lady to a young women and of course I will be different. No one is supposed to stay stagnet at any age. Life is about growing and learning.

 

I am glad my H is very willing to tackle these issue from his past head on when for so long he tried to tell himself he already had. No one can deal with those issues by them selves.

 

I do have a lot to juggle but I can handle it or at least I will be able to soon.

 

I am still not sure if I want to stay with my H but I am putting 100% into fixing things so then I will know.

[PWSX3]

I am still not sure if I want to stay with my H but I am putting 100% into fixing things so then I will know.

With everything going on I would say there will be a lot of changes before you have to decide that question & that is awesome that you are going to get all the issues figured out and then see where you are at.

 

All those things you have talked about can change how a person is & how they act.

 

I was just over at the neighbors and she was seeing a guy that took the wrong path for a while in his life & they split up, but I had noticed his truck around a lot. She said he has gone for help, counseling and has changed a bunch she said, so people "CAN" change if "THEY" want to.

 

I applaud you for not just giving up. At least at the end you will be able to say; I did what I could & this is what was best, but at least you won't have those "what if's?".

 

I also applaud your H for working on his past. I know it will help him & I'm pretty sure it will help your relationship as well.

 

As for the candle issue I feel there was no one at fault, just lack of communication, we just didn't handle it the correct way & that is what we are trying to learn right now.

[MoonGirl]

Hi RF,

 

I've been away for a day, and came back tonight to see how you're doing. I'm glad your husband is getting some help, and I really hope that he will be able to work through his issues. Some of them are HUGE issues. I agree with Gunny about finding a therapist who specializes in sexual issues.

 

I feel so bad for you right now, but I think you will become a stronger person during this experience. And, even though your husband is seeking help, I do think that you deserve better in life. But, as you already know, you have to choose your own path and be satisfied with your own decisions.

 

One BIG thing I want to point out is that any problems you have in your relationship now will be magnified after you have children (if you choose to have them). And you will develop new problems too, ones you could never even imagine right now. If you can't live peacefully and happily before children, I can pretty much guarantee you won't be happy after children. I can see now that the stress of adding children to my marriage was just too much for my husband to handle. He is a child himself (playing many of the same games your husband plays) and couldn't behave like a mature husband and father. So think hard and long about your marriage, what you want in the future, and whether or not you think you husband can provide you with the life you want.

 

I'm doing fine, by the way. I've just been keeping myself and the kids busy, and ignoring my husband's requests to come home. He knows it won't happen, especially if he won't go to therapy.