Packing, what now?

[redfathom]

ilmw,

 

I am not holding back affection for a tit for tat, I just want to be friends right now. I do not want to play the role of wife, expecially when i am constantly told I am inconsoderate and there for I do a bad job of it.

 

I understand the whole little word of encourgment and admiration, trust me I do that. But I also can't pretend like everything is okay when he is always coming down on me for something.

 

I am reading, I have read two books been to marriagebuilders.com, I am seeing an IC and we have an appt. to see the MC. I am just very frustarted and the reason I do not want to be a wife is because I do not want to be responsible for anyone, I do not want to live life where I walk on egg shells I am not cleaning enough, am I not being affectionate enough, did I take WHAT HE WANTED out of context and I am going to have to hear about that one also. I do not want to live like that, this is why I left. And it does not make me want to try when that is what I have to look forward to.

[ilmw]

ilmw,

 

I am not holding back affection for a tit for tat, I just want to be friends right now. I do not want to play the role of wife, expecially when i am constantly told I am inconsoderate and there for I do a bad job of it.

 

I understand the whole little word of encourgment and admiration, trust me I do that. But I also can't pretend like everything is okay when he is always coming down on me for something.

 

I am reading, I have read two books been to marriagebuilders.com, I am seeing an IC and we have an appt. to see the MC. I am just very frustarted and the reason I do not want to be a wife is because I do not want to be responsible for anyone, I do not want to live life where I walk on egg shells I am not cleaning enough, am I not being affectionate enough, did I take WHAT HE WANTED out of context and I am going to have to hear about that one also. I do not want to live like that, this is why I left. And it does not make me want to try when that is what I have to look forward to.

 

Red..thanks.. for clearing that up for me......

 

Like I said... it only takes one to work on a relationship.... But if you are feeling this way.. about the relationship... I can understand why you are feeling the way you are about it.. (I think that made sense )

 

I have to say I admire the fact that you are still trying... considering the way you feel... the frustration.. you project in your posts...

 

If your heart is not in this... you will not try hard for long... (I'm just saying) It may still be there... but it does sound like if there is desire.. it is waning.

 

I think your H is lucky that you are trying to reconnect... he is just to blind... and wrapped up in himself... and how he feels to see you are trying...

 

I hope he wakes the *ell up.. and smells the roses... before.. you say... scr*w this..for good...

 

ilmw

[Ladyjane14]

You still don't have this guy's attention.

If you did, he'd be too busy ENJOYING an evening in your company to spend it pouting and bitching.

 

Everything you posted in reference to your dinner date was really about control. Who's gonna cook?.. Who's gonna clean?.. And how are they gonna go about it? Who will be determining what the appropriate level of affectionate will be? What will be the consequences if it's not affectionate enough?

 

Seriously.... I think you need to review the situation and really LOOK at it. If you do, you'll see that he was jockeying for control all evening and his pouting is a manipulative way in which to assert it.

 

You know, I think sometimes women are a little too quick to play the "he-has-control-issues' card. But there are times when it is WARRENTED. I think in your situation, this guy has been controlling you since you were 14 years old. And he's not going to give that up without a struggle.

[PWSX3]

LadyJane, that's some good stuff right there & I have to agree with you.

 

ilmw, I can't believe how much you & I might have been a few months back & yes I can see myself pouting because I didn't get my way, must be a "man" thing or something.

 

Red, I can't add much to what ilmw & LadyJane said except give you an example of what happened to me this last week.

 

My W came over Tuesday evening & we made chili together & I tell you what I didn't care how missy the kitchen got, I didn't care who was doing what, what I cared about is we were spending time together period!!!!

 

When we were together she would do most of the cooking & I would clean up, but sometimes I would get mad because she didn't put the dishes in the sink when she was done or she would leave the counter top dirty, which when I cook I clean as I go, but its been 6 months for us & like I said if it wasn't done the way I do it I didn't care because I just wanted to spend time with the wife, so if you ask me I have to agree with LadyJane, I think it is more of who is in charge.

 

When he said you didn't need to do all the dishes you could have said; that's o.k. I don't mind doing them and just give him a big smile.

 

There is also that posibility that your H & you are seeing being together differently, you see it as trying to work things out, he is seeing it as getting a little ??? in while you are there. I don't know that for sure but just a thought & that can always put a frown on a mans face.

[AHIWON]

Red,

 

Some thoughts...from a guy who kinda sounds like your husband... a while back.

 

I used to pout if my DW did not pat me on the head.. every time I did something around the house. I used to think stupid thoughts... If she doesn't show me affection... I won't show her the same... It is a cancer in a relationship... when each person... reciprocates and the damage increases... as each of you continue the tit for tat behaviour.

 

It only takes one to work on a relationship....but it does take two to be in one... you can lead by example.... do things without expectations... show you can be happy with out him being happy... do things for yourself... that can also have a positive... outcome for both of you.

 

DO NOT let his mood effect yours... and remember... good moods and smiles or infectious...

 

You show a positive attitude.... it can only... have a positive effect.

 

and... lastly.... DO NOT let him drag you into an argument. If he wants to nit pick.. or whine.... be friendly... understanding...

 

We men can be pretty thick headed.. and can at times... act like little boys... It is not an excuse.... and I for one... am not particularly proud... of some of the immature antics I have done... in the past...

 

But then again.... I really had no idea... I truly did not know I was damaging my relationship with my wife...

 

If you have not read any decent books on relationships... Id highly recommend you pick yourself up some..... there is a post on LS with a bunch listed... We men and woman communicate differently; as I'm sure you know... so learning how and why.. and the differences, is a big help.

 

I for one... kinda get it... and that is a first.

 

I'm still learning... and reading... 9 books now... and also ones on personal growth... I have seen... that.. you can change for the better... and over the past 10 months... I do not recognise myself.. from the man I used to be...

 

So... there is hope... but it sounds like you will be the one to take charge. As your H.... is in the boat I was once in....

 

Hope for the best, expect the worst... can motivate you to work your damdist ...

 

best of luck... and stay strong

 

ilmw

 

The way you think is so similar to my thoughts it's almost scary. I can't put it together so eloquent as you but the message is the same. And I'm months and months behind you. I have a lot of interesting learning coming up.

 

My SO would get mad at me for being in a good mood while she sulked in her misery. Blame me for pretending everything is better when it isn't. All I was doing was trying to portray a good atmosphere and I explained that to her. Plus I was in a good mood, didn't make sense why she was so grumpy and irritable. Can't solve anything by being in a bad mood.

[redfathom]

Hi all. I wanted to give you a new update. So my H and I spent the rest of the morning fighting of course. Finally I think I got through (just a little) when we were talking about cleaning the kitchen I told him that not everything needs to be done his way. PWSX3, my H is like you and cleans as he goes, I tend to clean when I am done. The thing is he thinks if I do not do it HIS was it will not get done. I tried to explain that just because I did not put the can in the trash at the very moment I was done with it does not mean I am going to leave it on the counter for eternity. I told him that after I ate and relaxed was when I like to clean the kitchen. I told him there are more important things in life then having a clean home to come home to, that spending time with people is more important. I told him that I am gone 11 hours a day so when I come home and cook for an hour then eat I would like to relax, that I spend 11 hours a day doing things I have to and sometimes I want to do things I want to. I asked if sometime we can do things his way and sometimes my way becuase either way the goal of having a clean kicthen gets accomplished whether at that very moment or an hour later.

 

So finally a small break through, then later we were talking and:

 

He likes to tell me about what he sees for our future together, buying a motor home, having kids, ect. He does this everytime we fight. After he was done I said, I do not think I want those things and he said which things and I said all of those things and he said what do you want and I said I was not sure, I would like to find my way back to those things but right now I am not sure so again he asked what I wanted and I said, I want to find that out. And he seemed to understand that.

 

The rest of the day we were very affectionate, I think it was comforting to each of us, but I am not sure he really understand my last paragraph. I am not sure I want to spend the rest of my life with him. I wish I did but I am having doubts.

 

PWSX3, I do think that when we spend time together we see it differently, I see it as trying to find out selves and he sees it as he gets me back, no questions asked. He did say "how can we fall in love again if you are so distant." I was surprised because I think I have fallen out of love and to me that statment means he has too. Which is okay. Maybe we can find each other. Then he said later, this is so hard because we still love each other and if we didn't thi would be easier.

 

Everything you posted in reference to your dinner date was really about control. Who's gonna cook?.. Who's gonna clean?.. And how are they gonna go about it? Who will be determining what the appropriate level of affectionate will be? What will be the consequences if it's not affectionate enough?

 

Lady Jane, I agree. Everything has always been about his way. I have always had to change the way I do things to be the way he does them. The way the trash liner goes in the trash can, the way I stir the spagetti sauce, everything. I told him yesterday that he needs to accept me as me. I mean I have accpeted a lot of things about him, he needs to accept me.

 

Thanks all for your posts.

[PWSX3]

Lady Jane, I agree. Everything has always been about his way. I have always had to change the way I do things to be the way he does them. The way the trash liner goes in the trash can, the way I stir the spagetti sauce, everything. I told him yesterday that he needs to accept me as me. I mean I have accpeted a lot of things about him, he needs to accept me.

 

Thanks all for your posts.

As Dgiirl put it to me; if he likes the spaghetti sauce stirred the way he wants it done then he is more then welcome to do it himself!!!!

 

BUT if he would like you to do it then he will have to except it the way you do it. Just like you said; doesn't matter how it's done as long as he is at the table with a good meal of spaghetti.... Just ask him if he likes the spaghetti when you are done? More then likely he will say yes and so you can say; thank you for trusting me on how I made it. If he say's no then you say; looks like we have a new cook in the house & hand him the spoon.

[redfathom]

And the saga continues:

 

So again, we fight like crazy last night. I decided to stay the night last night and told my H this yesterday afternoon. Everything seemed okay, but then evening he was distant. So I asked why and he gave me two reasons:

 

1. I hurt his feelings because when he was being "intimate" which is 2nd base to him and I asked if we could just cuddle, I hurt his feelings.

 

2. He said he was glad to have me home yesterday and I said (which I guess is mean but I did not mean it to be, i was just clearing up his expectations) I said this does not mean I am ready to move back yet. As he said, he knows this why do I have to keep throwing it in his face. I guess I was wrong to do so, altough that was not my intentions.

 

So we talk somemore, I tell him he is controlling sometimes when he always had to tell people how things should be done, he says he is only offering recommendations. Then he freaks out and starts says what an ********* he is and he is not sure why I am with him anyways. I said, well sometimes people are jerks and you have such an issue with it and can't stand being wrong or a jerk or whatever and if that is how you feel how will you change it. Me wanting you to change will no do it, you have to want to. He then said, well fine I will go down and get the paperwork so you won't have to be married to a jerk, i guess I am not the man of your dreams. So I said, well you could be, if you wanted to. I said people are supposed to grow and they can't do that if they think there is noting wrong with them.

 

Somewhere in all this is punched the night stand about 5 times and beat up his hand pretty bad.

 

So he just kept saying, fine i will get the paperwork. So I asked if he did not want to try anymore and he said he was not sure that he could do anything about the way he is. So i said, fine you told me to remember who walked out but you have to remember who was too afraid to try.

 

Then things calmed down and we were being affectionate, a little. Then he tells me this:

 

When you left me, I lost my mind. I actually thought about sending you a text asking if it was okay if I explored my sexuality while you were gone. Instead I came home masterbated and used our toys.

 

I was not sure what to say about that. This was the night I packed my things so we could have a break. So know I am wondering is he trying to push me away so he can explore his sexuality then pull me back in when he wants me back. I mean why are we fighting over these small things, like hair in the shower and not saying thank you for cleaning the house. We have so many bigger issues to deal with. Why are we spending what little time we get together fighting. At this point I do not want to go home on the weekends like we planned. I feel like I am being watched, like he is waiting for me to make a mistake so he can point it out and validate that he thinks I am an inconsiderate slob.

 

Now there is this to deal with too. I am very lost and thinking now that staying just seems hopless.

[MoonGirl]

RF,

 

I'm sorry you had a difficult weekend. It doesn't sound like your H has been doing much to meet your emotional needs. Here is an interesting emotional needs questionnaire you and your husband can fill out to help each other understand what the other spouse is missing in the relationship: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/enq.pdf

 

Is he going to therapy with you? How about therapy for his sexual issues? Even if he decides he wants to explore his fantasies in real life, the idea of it could be causing him some serious stress.

 

"I am wondering is he trying to push me away so he can explore his sexuality then pull me back in when he wants me back."

 

This is possible...but, to me, your husband just sounds really confused with regards to sexuality. You're right - this issue is BIG in a marriage, and the issues you and your husband tend to fight about are smaller. However, most of your fighting seems to be centered around control rather than the actual issue you're fighting over... Anyway, if I were you, I'd really visit the sexuality issue deeper. Can you live with his desires? What if, after you decide to have children, your husband runs off with a man? It DOES happen.

[Gunny376]

Me thinks your DH is transgendered (I took a Human Sexuality ~ Psych course in college) and he's conflicted, depressed between the way that he was raised, and brought up (as a man, masculinity etc

~ thus the controlling behavior, his perception of taking charge, being in charge, leading the way etc.) and his need to express and experience femininity, which in our culture and society there's no mainstream acceptance of such.

 

Gender idenity and sexual idenity ~ gender orientation and sexual orientation aren't the same thing. A lot of the problems that you're having is his finding a balance between the two. No worries about his leaving you for another man ~ as I recall from the class only about 20% of such men even consider themselves bisexual. Most are heterosexual ~ but just need to get "girly" now and again for whatever reason housed in their brain housing group.

 

Fantasy is fantasy ~ but the thing about it is that it seldom if ever matches up to reality. Its one thing to fantaize about something and quite another to actually do it. You may fantazie about have sex with a bunch of clowns and a dancing bear ~ but its quite another story when said bear is bitting you in the ass!

 

I'd make his fantasies come true! I'd OD him on it! I'd make his dreams come true ~ to the point to where they turned into nightmares. Much like the American Cancer Society suggests you smoke 12 packs of cigarettes the day before the date you quit smoking. He's got fantasies of being with men and transvestites? Shove a broom handle up his ass once a day ~ and it won't take long to cure that! Go a step further, and let him go through the day to day pain in the ass aspects of being a woman everyday, and he'll re-discover how good he's got it as a man.

[Ladyjane14]

So know I am wondering is he trying to push me away so he can explore his sexuality then pull me back in when he wants me back.

 

You know, the thought occurred to me a while back when he was being so nice bringing your things to you at your Dad's... that he didn't seem too broken up about the opportunity to have the house to himself for awhile. My thoughts were that he'd be able to feed his porn addiction unhindered by your presence.

 

As far as "exploring his sexuality" with REAL people... what was it you mentioned in another post? ... "men, trannies, and OWs"? Well as far as that all goes, let him know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that just one infidelity, no matter who it's with, and there will be no more discussion.

 

Your separation is ostensibly to work on the marriage, right? Under those conditions, sexual contact with individuals outside the marriage is CHEATING. If you're smart you will make that crystal clear for him.

 

I mean why are we fighting over these small things, like hair in the shower and not saying thank you for cleaning the house. We have so many bigger issues to deal with. Why are we spending what little time we get together fighting.

 

It takes TWO people to fight, babe. When he's no longer capable of constructive discussion... get up and leave. Tell him you'll talk to him later when he's cooled off. Set some ground rules for what communications are acceptable to you and stick with them.

 

The key words are 'Constructive' and 'Destructive'. You aren't obligated to stand there and take whatever he dishes out. At the point in which he's beating up the nightstand .... you can be pretty sure the discussion has lost it's focus and become destructive to the relationship.

 

He's still trying to CONTROL the situation, throwing tantrums and pouting like a little boy. Don't deal with "the boy". You reward him when you do. Only deal with the MAN.

[redfathom]

Hi Gunny and Lady Jane,

 

Gunny, I think what you said is very interesting but he has already been with a man. The relationship he was in before meeting me was with a man so I know for fact that he is bisexual. According to him he has come to terms with this and is okay with his thought and fantasies. As for the shove a broom handle up his ass coment, all I have to say is HAHAHAHA. Also, thanks for understand how hard we women have it !

 

You are right, I am rewarding his bad behaviour by giving in. I am glad that I have a place to go to when the fighting gets bad. I have to say that I am very against going to bed angry so usually I try to stick it out. I have definitly let him know that cheating is cheating, I do not care what gender the other person is. Cheating is a deal breaker, the hard part is know that he has these urges to cheat and supresses it with porn.

 

Here is the thing, I do not think I want to spend the rest of my life with him but for now I am enjoying it (well until we started fighting). I want to end things peacefully, once that can be done I will walk away. I know that sounds, well, stupid but I do not want to end things with him on bad terms. I hope we can always be friends and just know that we grew apart, nothing more nothing less.

 

Yesterday we were talking and he got so worked up he started stuttering, he has never done that in the 10 years we have been together. We talked for another 10 min after it started and he said he needed to go relax and then would call me later. When he did the stuttering went away, I was so worried. So last night I went to see him and we had a good time together, no fighting. We picked up a board game and went home and had buffalo wings. It was nice. Tonight I will see him for an hour then I am hanging out with a girlfriend and staying at my dads again for the next few days.

 

Thanks ago for the posts. You are both great as always.

[MoonGirl]

 

Gunny, I think what you said is very interesting but he has already been with a man.

 

Here is the thing, I do not think I want to spend the rest of my life with him but for now I am enjoying it (well until we started fighting). I want to end things peacefully, once that can be done I will walk away.

 

RF,

 

If your husband has already been with a man, he may be more than bisexual. He may be homosexual. How often do you have sex?

 

Also, if you do not want to spend the rest of your life with him, let him go, hun. Divorce is rarely peaceful. But time will heal you both.

[redfathom]

He does enjoy sex with women and me . We have sex about one time a week while he does masterbate more then that. He is always grabbing and gropping me and telling me how sexy I am. I do believe he is bisexual, but I can see how it could be perceived as homosexual since he was in a RELATIONSHIP. When he talks about it now, he says he wants to be in a relationship with me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me just that he is curious.

 

I know divorce is rarely peaceful and while I do not want to spend the rest of my life with him I am not ready to let him go and he is not ready to let me go.

 

I guess when the time is right it will be right.

[MoonGirl]

He does enjoy sex with women and me . We have sex about one time a week while he does masterbate more then that. He is always grabbing and gropping me and telling me how sexy I am. I do believe he is bisexual, but I can see how it could be perceived as homosexual since he was in a RELATIONSHIP. When he talks about it now, he says he wants to be in a relationship with me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me just that he is curious.

 

I know divorce is rarely peaceful and while I do not want to spend the rest of my life with him I am not ready to let him go and he is not ready to let me go.

 

I guess when the time is right it will be right.

 

 

That's true. When you're ready to let him go, you'll know. But are you afraid you're wasting your time or his time?

[redfathom]

That is always a concern. For both of us. I think right now we are both okay with just spending time and with all of the fighting we are doing we are both learning a lot about each other and ourselves (as painful as it is sometimes). We are both unsure about what we want or when we want it. Right now I think we are okay hanging out.

[redfathom]

I have been spending almost everyday with my H.

 

We fought all weekend, Monday was fun, we played Trivial Pursuit. Tuesday he made dinner and I cleaned. Yesterday we could not spend much time because I figure skate on Wed. but that afternoon I bought some storage bins and organized most of the closet. So tonight was okay okay, until....

 

We were cuddling on the couch and hugging and he said, "I hope you come home soon." Well he has been asking me this questions for the last three days and he hates every answer I give him, so I said, "When the time is right I will." Everything seemed okay then he started to pout. So I asked him what was wrong, was he upset over my response and he said he was that he tries to say something nice and I am to distant. So I said again he wants me to come back and I said "I will" then he said I could have said that like I meant it. Then he had to start getting ready for work so I thought about what I would say, so when he was done I said:

 

That there was only one answer that he wanted to hear (he said there wasn't just for me to hug him when he said it) so then I kept saying, when I am ready to come back you will not have to ask me because I will tell you. Then he said, fine when I am ready for you to come back I will ask you. So I said he should not be like that and that I felt pressured by him asking and he said why can't he just tell me that he misses me with out me pushing him away. I said that we keep fighting and that is why I have not come back yet, we fought for four out of six days this week, (me crying and him hitting things). So he said, well we can work on that while you are living here.

 

So then he finished getting ready and walked out the house, did not look at me or say anything. Then I left and came to my dads.

 

So I am very mixed right now, I am anrgy, sad, feel guilty all at the same time.

 

I am pissed off because I am tired of dealing with a child.

I am sad because I hurt his feeling, not intentionally but I did.

I feel guilty for hurting his feelings.

 

I am feeling like how can I face another day of fighting with him. We are already doing so much damage, I feel cornered. I miss him yet I am not looking forward to seeing him or talking to him because we will just end up fighting. I also feel like I have to see him because if not he will freak out.

 

We have our first MC appt. on Monday, which BTW he forgot and made a Dr's. appt that day (just an hour and a half later for something else).

 

I am also angry because I do not go over there to fight and I do not start them. I mean I do not go over there and say....hmmm, lets see if you have been looking at porn this week, but he likes to point out if I forget to get my hair out of the shower.

 

When he told me he was going to send me a text when I left asking if he could explore his sexuality and then masterbated and used sex toys. I did not get angry or anything, I was nice and said, "I understand why you did it because you were upset and porn is a safe place for you."

 

Why can't he just stop starting arguments, so I said something mean (not intentionally, because I felt pressured) why can't he just brush it off and say, well at least you are here now so I will just enjoy this.

 

Sorry for the long rant, I am just very pissed off.

[Gunny376]

WTF? What is your major malufuntion in your brain housing group that makes you think this is the guy to end all guys?! What is it that makes you think he's the only guy on the planet? What makes you think its him or nothing ~ and even if it was! You'd be better off!

 

I'd be telling him ~ "Adious Muther ~ Trucker! and in the next breath saying:

 

 

NEXT!

[redfathom]

I agree at this point I really pathetic. I know he is playing games and i know I am enabling him to do that. Then I come on here and complain about it yet do nothing about it. I feel weak and frustrated. I guess my major malfunction is, fear, low self-esteem, guilt, sadness.

 

He is making me feel like I am not doing my best to work things out and I guess I am being stubborn and telling myself that I have to try. He makes me feel like everything is my fualt and that I am overreacting, so it is hard to say goodbye to him when I feel at fault for all the problems we are having so then I want to fix them, fix me.

 

He sent me a text this morning that said:

 

"When are you going to do something with your cat?"

I said, "we will talk later."

He said, "I did not ask to talk I asked when will you do something with your cat."

I said, "I will try to do something soon"

He says, "Wow, you actually commited to soon that was more then you could do for me in this relationship"

 

I sent a few texts back saying that I would come home if I was not being attacked all the time and that when you attack me I do not feel like you want me to come back. he said, I told you I hope you come back soon and you think I do not want you to come back. You are being attacked I am the one who keeps having his heart trampled.

 

Anyways! Now I am sad and feel guilty again. I guess I will never learn.

[Ladyjane14]

If I were you, I'd pick my cat up, give him the almighty "You're Number One" sign ... and shut my phone off for two weeks.

 

If somebody's just GOT to play head-games with you... hell, give as good as you get, or don't play at all.

[Ladyjane14]

His MOTHER should be the one feeling "guilty" right now. She raised an ASSCLOWN.

 

Stop buying in to the guilt trips.

[Gunny376]

From where I sit the only malfunction that you've got is that you're still with this guy.

 

This guy wants to explore his "sexuality" with trannies, other men and women ~ and you're not suppose to have a problem with that ~ and then the icing on the cake is he's got attitude and giving you grief all the time.

 

I'd be on the next thing smokin' out and away from this guy ~ he's got problems and issues to say the least.

 

I wouldn't turn off my phone ~ I wouldn't block him ~ I'd would be getting myself a new number~! Even if its just the numner "1" ~ as in me, myself and I.

 

Forget this guy! He's a freaking idiot! Leave him to his OM, OW, and Trannies and toys ~ he doesn't need you! He's got them! Leave him to his fantasy world ~ his own little world ~ there's not room in there for both of you ~ because its in his mind ~ and its such a small and cramped place! :laugh:

[redfathom]

This is long, from a website, but good info.

 

The Loser"

Warning Signs You're Dating a Loser

 

Joseph M. Carver, Ph.D., Psychologist

 

 

Comment (September 27, 2003)

This article was published to the Internet several years ago and was originally written to help identify "Losers" in relationships. The e-mail feedback I have received on the article has been tremendous. It's clear the article is a way of identifying not only "losers" but controlling, abusive, and manipulating individuals. It's also obvious these warning signs are not only found in dating relationships - but in our spouse, our parents, our friends, and our relatives. There are more victims in the environment of the Loser than his or her partner.

I've been contacted for help by the friends and loved ones of people involved in relationships with Losers (controlling and/or abusive partners). The loved ones want to understand the situation and ask for recommendations and guidance. For this group I have recently published "Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser". A link to this article is found at the end of this page.

Obviously, this article has created the need for sequels. I hope to publish a guide to assist Losers who want to change their life and behavior. An article addressing sons and daughters who were parented by Losers is also being planned. If our parent or parents have the characteristics listed in this article, our ability to function as a healthy adult may be hindered due to the dysfunctional family/parent model. My goal is to follow this issue and provide help and guidance to all those involved with controlling and abusive individuals - from partners to extended victims.

 

Introduction

Very few relationships start on terms other than sweetness and politeness. In the beginning, "the honeymoon" of the relationship, it's difficult to determine what type of individual you are dating. Both you and the date are guarded, trying to obtain information about the other as much as possible without seeming like a police detective.

 

Romantic relationships can be wonderful with the right person. A relationship with the wrong individual however can lead to years of heartache, emotional/social damage, and even physical damage. A damaging adult partner can damage us, damage our loved ones, and even damage the way we feel about love and romance in the future. They can turn what is supposed to be a loving, supporting, and understanding relationship into the "fatal attraction" often described in movies. There are a variety of "bad choices" that may be encountered each week - most of which are easily to identify and avoid. We all know to avoid people that appear insane or abusive and not select them as a dating partner. However, some individuals are better at hiding their personality and behavior abnormalities. In an effort to provide some warning about these very damaging individuals, this paper will outline a type of individual commonly found in the dating scene, a male or female labeled "The Loser".

 

"The Loser" is a type of partner that creates much social, emotional and psychological damage in a relationship. "The Loser" has permanent personality characteristics that create this damage. These are characteristics that they accept simply as the way they are and not a problem or psychological difficulty. In one sense, they have always lived with this personality and behavior, often something they probably learned from their relatives/family. Psychologists usually treat the victims of "The Loser", women or men who arrive at the office severely depressed with their self-confidence and self-esteem totally destroyed.

 

The following list is an attempt to outline the characteristics of "The Loser" and provide a manner in which women and men can identify potentially damaging relationships before they are themselves severely damaged emotionally or even physically. If your partner possesses even one of these features, there is risk in the relationship. More than three of these indicators and you are involved with "The Loser" in a very high risk relationship that will eventually create damage to you. When a high number of these features are present - it's not a probably or possibility. You will be hurt and damaged by "The Loser" if you stay in the relationship.

 

 

1. Rough Treatment "The Loser" will hurt you on purpose. If he or she hits you, twists your arm, pulls your hair, kicks you, shoves you, or breaks your personal property EVEN ONCE, drop them. Male losers often begin with behaviors that move you physically or hit the wall. Female losers often slap, kick and even punch their male partners when upset.

 

2. Quick Attachment and Expression "The Loser" has very shallow emotions and connections with others. One of the things that might attract you to "The Loser" is how quickly he or she says "I Love You" or wants to marry or commit to you. Typically, in less than a few weeks of dating you'll hear that you're the love of their life, they want to be with you forever, and they want to marry you. You'll receive gifts, a variety of promises, and be showered with their attention and nice gestures. This is the "honeymoon phase" - where they catch you and convince you that they are the best thing that ever happened to you. Remember the business saying "If it's too good to be true it probably is (too good to be true)!" You may be so overwhelmed by this display of instant attraction, instant commitment, and instant planning for the future that you'll miss the major point - it doesn't make sense!! Normal, healthy individuals require a long process to develop a relationship because there is so much at stake. Healthy individuals will wait for a lot of information before offering a commitment - not three weeks. It's true that we can become infatuated with others quickly - but not make such unrealistic promises and have the future planned after three dates. The rapid warm-up is always a sign of shallow emotions which later cause "The Loser" to detach from you as quickly as they committed. "The Loser" typically wants to move in with you or marry you in less than four weeks or very early in the relationship.

 

3. Frightening Temper "The Loser" has a scary temper. If your boyfriend or girlfriend blows up and does dangerous things, like driving too fast because they're mad, breaking/throwing things, getting into fights, or threatening others - that temper will soon be turned in your direction. In the beginning of the relationship, you will be exposed to "witnessed violence" - fights with others, threats toward others, angry outbursts at others, etc. You will also hear of violence in their life. You will see and witness this temper - throwing things, yelling, cursing, driving fast, hitting the walls, and kicking things. That quickly serves to intimidate you and fear their potential for violence, although "The Loser" quickly assures you that they are angry at others or situations, not at you. At first, you will be assured that they will never direct the hostility and violence at you - but they are clearly letting you know that they have that ability and capability - and that it might come your way. Later, you fear challenging or confronting them - fearing that same temper and violence will be turned in your direction.

 

4. Killing Your Self-Confidence "The Loser" repeatedly puts you down. They constantly correct your slight mistakes, making you feel "on guard", unintelligent, and leaving you with the feeling that you are always doing something wrong. They tell you that you're too fat, too unattractive, or don't talk correctly or look well. This gradual chipping away at your confidence and self-esteem allows them to later treat you badly - as though you deserved it. In public, you will be "walking on eggshells" - always fearing you are doing or saying something that will later create a temper outburst or verbal argument.

 

5. Cutting Off Your Support In order to control someone completely, you must cut off their supportive friends - sometimes even their family. "The Loser" feels your friends and family might influence you or offer negative opinions about their behavior. "The Loser" begins by telling you these friends treat you badly, take advantage of you, and don't understand the special nature of the love you share with them. In some cases, if they can't get rid of your best same-sex friend, "The Loser" will claim he or she made a pass at them. If you talk to your friends or family, "The Loser" will punish you by asking multiple questions or making nasty accusations. Eventually, rather than face the verbal punishment, interrogation, and abuse, you'll develop the feeling that it's better not to talk to family and friends. You will withdraw from friends and family, prompting them to become upset with you. "The Loser" then tells you they are treating you badly again and you'd be better to keep your distance from them. Once you are isolated and alone, without support, their control over you can increase.

 

6. The Mean and Sweet Cycle "The Loser" cycles from mean to sweet and back again. The cycle starts when they are intentionally hurtful and mean. You may be verbally abused, cursed, and threatened over something minor. Suddenly, the next day they become sweet, doing all those little things they did when you started dating. You hang on, hoping each mean-then-sweet cycle is the last one. The other purpose of the mean cycle is to allow "The Loser" to say very nasty things about you or those you care about, again chipping away at your self-esteem and self-confidence. "The Loser" often apologizes but the damage to your self-esteem is already done - exactly as planned.

 

7. It's Always Your Fault "The Loser" blames you for their anger as well as any other behavior that is incorrect. When they cheat on you, yell at you, treat you badly, damage your property, or embarrass you publicly - it's somehow your fault. If you are ten minutes late for a date, it's your fault that the male loser drives 80 miles per hour, runs people off the road, and pouts the rest of the evening. "The Loser" tells you their anger and misbehavior would not have happened if you had not made some simple mistake, had loved them more, or had not questioned their behavior. "The Loser" never, repeat "never", takes personal responsibility for their behavior - it's always the fault of someone else. If they drive like a maniac and try to pull an innocent driver off the highway to assault them - it's actually the fault of the other driver (not his) as they didn't use a turn signal when they changed lanes. They give you the impression that you had it (anger, yelling, assault) coming and deserved the anger, violence, pouting, or physical display of aggression.

 

8. Breakup Panic "The Loser" panics at the idea of breaking up - unless it's totally their idea - then you're dropped like a hot rock. Abusive boyfriends often break down and cry, they plead, they promise to change, and they offer marriage/trips/gifts when you threaten ending the relationship. Both male and female losers may threaten suicide, threaten to return to old sweethearts (who feel lucky they're gone!), or threaten to quit their job and leave the area - as though you will be responsible for those decisions. "The Loser" offers a multitude of "deals" and halfway measures, like "Let's just date one more month!"

They shower you with phone calls, often every five minutes, hoping that you will make an agreement or see them just to stop the telephone harassment. Some call your relatives, your friends, their friends, and anyone else they can think of - telling those people to call you and tell you how much they love you. Creative losers often create so much social pressure that the victim agrees to go back to the bad relationship rather than continue under the social pressure. Imagine trying to end a relationship and receiving tearful calls from all his or her relatives (they secretly hope you'll keep them so they don't have to), seeing a plea for your return in the newspaper or even on a local billboard, receiving flowers at work each day, or having them arrive at your place of work and offer you a wedding ring (male loser technique) or inform you that they might be pregnant (female loser technique) in front of your coworkers! Their reaction is emotionally intense, a behavior they use to keep you an emotional prisoner. If you go back to them, you actually fear a worse reaction if you threaten to leave again (making you a prisoner) and they later frequently recall the incident to you as further evidence of what a bad person you are. Remember, if your prize dog jumps the fence and escapes, if you get him back you build a higher fence. Once back in the grasp of "The Loser" - escape will be three times as difficult the next time.

 

9. No Outside Interests "The Loser" will encourage you to drop your hobbies, interests, and involvement with others. If you have an individual activity, they demand that they accompany you, making you feel miserable during the entire activity. The idea behind this is to prevent you from having fun or interests other than those which they totally control.

 

10. Paranoid Control "The Loser" will check up on you and keep track of where you are and who you are with. If you speak to a member of the opposite sex, you receive twenty questions about how you know them. If you don't answer their phone call, you are ask where you were, what were you doing, who you were talking to, etc. They will notice the type of mud on your car, question why you shop certain places, and question why you called a friend, why the friend called you, and so forth. Some losers follow you to the grocery, then later ask if you've been there in an attempt to catch you in a lie. In severe cases, they go through your mail, look through your purse/wallet, hit your redial on the phone when they arrive, or search through your garbage for evidence. High-tech losers may encourage you to make "private" calls to friends from their residence, calls that are being secretly taped for later reference. They may begin to tell you what to wear, what to listen to in music, and how to behave in public. Eventually, they tell you that you can not talk to certain friends or acquaintances, go certain places, or talk about certain issues in public. If no date is present on Friday night - "The Loser" will inform you that they will call you that night - sometime. That effectively keeps you home, awaiting the call, fearing the verbal abuse and questions you might receive if you weren't home for the call. This technique allows "The Loser" to do what they want socially, at the same time controlling your behavior from a distance or a local bar.

 

11. Public Embarrassment In an effort to keep you under control while in public, "The Loser" will lash out at you, call you names, or say cruel or embarrassing things about you in private or in front of people. When in public, you quickly learn that any opinion you express may cause them to verbally attack you, either at the time or later. If you stay with "The Loser" too long, you'll soon find yourself politely smiling, saying nothing, and holding on to their arm when in public. You'll also find yourself walking with your head down, fearful of seeing a friend who might speak to you and create an angry reaction in "The Loser".

 

12. It's Never Enough "The Loser" convinces you that you are never quite good enough. You don't say "I love you" enough, you don't stand close enough, you don't do enough for them after all their sacrifices, and your behavior always falls short of what is expected. This is another method of destroying your self-esteem and confidence. After months of this technique, they begin telling you how lucky you are to have them - somebody who tolerates someone so inadequate and worthless as you.

 

13. Entitlement "The Loser" has a tremendous sense of entitlement, the attitude that they have a perfectly logical right to do whatever they desire. If cut off in traffic, "The Loser" feels they have the right to run the other driver off the road, assault them, and endanger the lives of other drivers with their temper tantrum. Keep in mind, this same sense of entitlement will be used against you. If you disobey their desires or demands, or violate one of their rules, they feel they are entitled to punish you in any manner they see fit.

 

14. Your Friends and Family Dislike Him As the relationship continues, your friends and family will see what "The Loser" is doing to you. They will notice a change in your personality or your withdrawal. They will protest. "The Loser" will tell you they are jealous of the "special love" you have and then use their protest and opinion as further evidence that they are against you - not him. The mention of your family members or friends will spark an angry response from them - eventually placing you in the situation where you stop talking about those you care about, even your own family members. "The Loser" will be jealous and threatened by anyone you are close to - even your children. In some cases, your parents or brothers/sisters will not be allowed to visit your home.

 

15. Bad Stories People often let you know about their personality by the stories they tell about themselves. It's the old story about giving a person enough rope and they'll hang themselves. The stories a person tells informs us of how they see themselves, what they think is interesting, and what they think will impress you. A humorous individual will tell funny stories on himself. "The Loser" tells stories of violence, aggression, being insensitive to others, rejecting others, etc. They may tell you about past relationships and in every case, they assure you that they were treated horribly despite how wonderful they were to that person. They brag about their temper and outbursts because they don't see anything wrong with violence and actually take pride in the "I don't take nothing from nobody" attitude. People define themselves with their stories, much like a culture is described by it's folklore and legends. Listen to these stories - they tell you how you will eventually be treated and what's coming your way.

 

16. The Waitress Test It's been said that when dating, the way an individual treats a waitress or other neutral person of the opposite sex is the way they will treat you in six months. During the "honeymoon phase" of a relationship, you will be treated like a king or queen. However, during that time "The Loser" has not forgotten how he or she basically feels about the opposite sex. Waitresses, clerks, or other neutral individuals will be treated badly. If they are cheap - you'll never receive anything once the honeymoon is over. If they whine, complain, criticize, and torment - that's how they'll treat you in six months. A mentally healthy person is consistent, they treat almost all people the same way all the time. If you find yourself dating a man who treats you like a queen and other females like dirt - hit the road.

 

17. The Reputation As mentioned, mentally healthy individuals are consistent in their personality and their behavior. "The Loser" may have two distinct reputations - a group of individuals who will give you glowing reports and a group that will warn you that they are serious trouble. If you ask ten people about a new restaurant - five say it's wonderful and five say it's a hog pit - you clearly understand that there's some risk involved in eating there. "The Loser" may actually brag about their reputation as a "butt kicker", "womanizer", "hot temper" or "being crazy". They may tell you stories where other's have called them crazy or suggested that they receive professional help. Pay attention to the reputation. Reputation is the public perception of an individual's behavior. If the reputation has two sides, good and bad, your risk is high. You will be dealing with the bad side once the honeymoon is over in the relationship. With severe behavior problems, "The Loser" will be found to have almost no friends, just acquaintances. Emotionally healthy and moral individuals will not tolerate friendships with losers that treat others so badly. If you find yourself disliking the friends of "The Loser", it's because they operate the same way he or she does and you can see it in them.

 

18. Walking on Eggshells As a relationship with "The Loser" continues, you will gradually be exposed to verbal intimidation, temper tantrums, lengthy interrogations about trivial matters, violence/threats directed at others but witnessed by you, paranoid preoccupation with your activities, and a variety of put-downs on your character. You will quickly find yourself "walking on eggshells" in their presence - fearful to bring up topics, fearful to mention that you spoke to or saw a friend, and fearful to question or criticize the behavior of "The Loser". Instead of experiencing the warmth and comfort of love, you will be constantly on edge, tense when talking to others (they might say something that you'll have to explain later), and fearful that you'll see someone you'll have to greet in public. Dates and times together will be more comfortable and less threatening when totally alone - exactly what "The Loser" wants - no interference with their control or dominance.

 

19. Discounted Feelings/Opinions "The Loser" is so self-involved and self-worshiping that the feelings and opinions of others are considered worthless. As the relationship continues and you begin to question what you are feeling or seeing in their behavior, you will be told that your feelings and opinions don't make sense, they're silly, and that you are emotionally disturbed to even think of such things. "The Loser" has no interest in your opinion or your feelings - but they will be disturbed and upset that you dare question their behavior. "The Loser" is extremely hostile toward criticism and often reacts with anger or rage when their behavior is questioned.

 

20. They Make You "Crazy" "The Loser" operates in such a damaging way that you find yourself doing "crazy" things in self-defense. If "The Loser" is scheduled to arrive at 8:00 pm - you call Time & Temperature to cover the redial, check your garbage for anything that might get you in trouble, and call your family and friends to tell them not to call you that night. You warn family/friends not to bring up certain topics, avoid locations in the community where you might see co-workers or friends, and not speak to others for fear of the 20 questions. You become paranoid as well - being careful what you wear and say. Nonviolent males find themselves in physical fights with female losers. Nonviolent females find themselves yelling and screaming when they can no longer take the verbal abuse or intimidation. In emotional and physical self-defense, we behave differently and oddly. While we think we are "going crazy" - it's important to remember that there is no such thing as "normal behavior" in a combat situation. Rest assured that your behavior will return to normal if you detach from "The Loser" before permanent psychological damage is done.

 

 

Dangerous Versions of "The Loser"

 

There are more severe if not dangerous versions of "The Loser" that have been identified over the years. If you are involved in a relationship with one of these versions, you may require professional and legal assistance to save yourself.

 

Physical Abuser Physical abusers begin the relationship with physical moving - shoving, pushing, forcing, etc. That quickly moves into verbal threats with physical gestures - the finger in the face, clinched fist in the face, and voiced physical threats such as "You make me want to break your face!" Eventually, these combine to form actual physical abuse - hitting, slapping, and kicking. "The Loser" is always sorry the next day and begins the mean-then-sweet cycle all over again. Getting away from physical abusers often requires the assistance of family, law enforcement agencies, or local abuse agencies. Female losers often physically attack their partner, break car windows, or behave with such violence that the male partner is forced to physically protect himself from the assault. If the female loser is bruised in the process of self-protection, as when physically restraining her from hitting, those bruises are then "displayed" to others as evidence of what a bad person the partner is and how abusive they have been in the relationship.

 

Psychotic Losers There are losers that are severely ill in a psychiatric sense - the movie description of the "Fatal Attraction". Some may tell you wild stories and try to convince you that they are connected to The Mob or a government agency (CIA, FBI, etc.). They may fake terminal illness, pregnancy, or disease. They intimidate and frighten you with comments such as "I can have anyone killed..." or "No one leaves a relationship with me...". If you try to end the relationship, they react violently and give you the impression that you, your friends, or your family are in serious danger. People often then remain in the abusive and controlling relationship due to fear of harm to their family or their reputation. While such fears are unrealistic as "The Loser" is only interested in controlling you, those fears feel very real when combined with the other characteristics of "The Loser".

 

Psychotic or psychiatrically ill losers may also stalk, follow, or harass you. They may threaten physical violence, show weapons, or threaten to kill you or themselves if you leave them. If you try to date others, they may follow you or threaten your new date. Your new date may be subjected to phone harassment, vandalism, threats, and even physical assaults. If you are recently divorced, separated, or recently ended another relationship, "The Loser" may be intimidating toward your ex-partner, fearing you might return if the other partner is not "scared off". Just remember - everything "The Loser" has ever done to anyone will be coming your way. "The Loser" may send you pictures of you, your children, or your family - pictures they have taken secretly - hinting that they can "reach out and touch" those you love. You may need help and legal action to separate from these individuals.

 

Guidelines for Detachment

 

Separating from "The Loser" often involves three stages: The Detachment, Ending the Relationship, and the Follow-up Protection.

 

The Detachment

During this part of separating from "The Loser", you recognize what you must do and create an Exit Plan. Many individuals fail in attempts to detach from "The Loser" because they leave suddenly and impulsively, without proper planning, and without resources. In many cases, "The Loser" has isolated their partner from others, has control of finances, or has control of major exit needs such as an automobile. During the detachment phase you should...

 

- Observe the way you are treated. Watch for the methods listed above and see how "The Loser" works.

- Gradually become more boring, talk less, share less feelings and opinions. The goal is almost to bore "The Loser" to lessen the emotional attachment, at the same time not creating a situation which would make you a target.

- Quietly contact your family and supportive others. Determine what help they might be - a place to stay, protection, financial help, etc.

- If you fear violence or abuse, check local legal or law enforcement options such as a restraining order.

- If "The Loser" is destructive, slowly move your valuables from the home if together, or try to recover valuables if in their possession. In many cases, you may lose some personal items during your detachment - a small price to pay to get rid of "The Loser".

- Stop arguing, debating or discussing issues. Stop defending and explaining yourself - responding with comments such as "I've been so confused lately" or "I'm under so much stress I don't know why I do anything anymore".

- Begin dropping hints that you are depressed, burned out, or confused about life in general. Remember - "The Loser" never takes responsibility for what happens in any relationship. "The Loser" will feel better about leaving the relationship if they can blame it on you. Many individuals are forced to "play confused" and dull, allowing "The Loser" to tell others "My girlfriend (or boyfriend) about half nuts!" They may tell others you're crazy or confused but you'll be safer. Allow them to think anything they want about you as long as you're in the process of detaching.

- Don't start another relationship. That will only complicate your situation and increase the anger. Your best bet is to "lay low" for several months. Remember, "The Loser" will quickly locate another victim and become instantly attached as long as the focus on you is allowed to die down.

- As "The Loser" starts to question changes in your behavior, admit confusion, depression, emotionally numbness, and a host of other boring reactions. This sets the foundation for the ending of the relationship.

 

Ending the Relationship

 

Remembering that "The Loser" doesn't accept responsibility, responds with anger to criticism, and is prone to panic detachment reactions - ending the relationship continues the same theme as the detachment.

 

- Explain that you are emotionally numb, confused, and burned out. You can't feel anything for anybody and you want to end the relationship almost for his or her benefit. Remind them that they've probably noticed something is wrong and that you need time to sort out your feelings and fix whatever is wrong with you. As disgusting as it may seem, you may have to use a theme of "I'm not right for anyone at this point in my life." If "The Loser" can blame the end on you, as they would if they ended the relationship anyway, they will depart faster.

- If "The Loser" panics, you'll receive a shower of phone calls, letters, notes on your car, etc. React to each in the same manner - a boring thanks. If you overreact or give in, you've lost control again.

- Focus on your need for time away from the situation. Don't agree to the many negotiations that will be offered - dating less frequently, dating only once a week, taking a break for only a week, going to counseling together, etc. As long as "The Loser" has contact with you they feel there is a chance to manipulate you.

- "The Loser" will focus on making you feel guilty. In each phone contact you'll hear how much you are loved, how much was done for you, and how much they have sacrificed for you. At the same time, you'll hear about what a bum you are for leading them on, not giving them an opportunity to fix things, and embarrassing them by ending the relationship.

- Don't try to make them understand how you feel - it won't happen. "The Loser" only is concerned with how they feel - your feelings are irrelevant. You will be wasting your time trying to make them understand and they will see the discussions as an opportunity to make you feel more guilty and manipulate you.

- Don't fall for sudden changes in behavior or promises of marriage, trips, gifts, etc. By this time you have already seen how "The Loser" is normally and naturally. While anyone can change for a short period of time, they always return to their normal behavior once the crisis is over.

- Seek professional counseling for yourself or the support of others during this time. You will need encouragement and guidance. Keep in mind, if "The Loser" finds out you are seeking help they will criticize the counseling, the therapist, or the effort.

- Don't use terms like "someday", "maybe", or "in the future". When "The Loser" hears such possibilities, they think you are weakening and will increase their pressure.

- Imagine a dead slot machine. If we are in Las Vegas at a slot machine and pull the handle ten times and nothing happens - we move on to another machine. However, if on the tenth time the slot machine pays us even a little, we keep pulling the handle - thinking the jackpot is on the way. If we are very stern and stable about the decision to end the relationship over many days, then suddenly offer a possibility or hope for reconciliation - we've given a little pay and the pressure will continue. Never change your position - always say the same thing. "The Loser" will stop playing a machine that doesn't pay off and quickly move to another.

 

 

Follow-up Protection

 

"The Loser" never sees their responsibility or involvement in the difficulties in the relationship. From a psychological standpoint, "The Loser" has lived and behaved in this manner most of their life, clearly all of their adult life. As they really don't see themselves at fault or as an individual with a problem, "The Loser" tends to think that the girlfriend or boyfriend is simply going through a phase - their partner (victim) might be temporarily mixed up or confused, they might be listening to the wrong people, or they might be angry about something and will get over it soon. "The Loser" rarely detaches completely and will often try to continue contact with the partner even after the relationship is terminated. During the Follow-up Protection period, some guidelines are:

- Never change your original position. It's over permanently! Don't talk about possible changes in your position in the future. You might think that will calm "The Loser" but it only tells them that the possibilities still exist and only a little more pressure is needed to return to the relationship.

- Don't agree to meetings or reunions to discuss old times. For "The Loser", discussing old times is actually a way to upset you, put you off guard, and use the guilt to hook you again.

- Don't offer details about your new life or relationships. Assure him that both his life and your life are now private and that you hope they are happy.

- If you start feeling guilty during a phone call, get off the phone fast. More people return to bad marriages and relationships due to guilt than anything else. If you listen to those phone calls, as though taping them, you'll find "The Loser" spends most of the call trying to make you feel guilty.

- In any contact with the ex "Loser", provide only a status report, much like you'd provide to your Aunt Gladys. For example: "I'm still working hard and not getting any better at tennis. That's about it."

- When "The Loser" tells you how difficult the breakup has been, share with him some general thoughts about breaking-up and how finding the right person is difficult. While "The Loser" wants to focus on your relationship, talk in terms of Ann Landers - "Well, breaking up is hard on anyone. Dating is tough in these times. I'm sure we'll eventually find someone that's right for both of us." Remember - nothing personal!

- Keep all contact short and sweet - the shorter the better. As far as "The Loser" is concerned, you're always on your way somewhere, there's something in the microwave, or your mother is walking up the steps to your home. Wish "The Loser" well but always with the same tone of voice that you might offer to someone you have just talked to at the grocery store. For phone conversations, electronic companies make a handy gadget that produces about twenty sounds - a doorbell, an oven or microwave alarm, a knock on the door, etc. That little device is handy to use on the phone - the microwave dinner just came out or someone is at the door. Do whatever you have to do to keep the conversation short - and not personal.

 

 

Summary

 

In all of our relationships throughout life, we will meet a variety of individuals with many different personalities. Some are a joy to have in our life and some provide us with life-long love and security. Others we meet pose some risk to us and our future due to their personality and attitudes. Both in medicine and mental health - the key to health is the early identification and treatment of problems - before they reach the point that they are beyond treatment. In years of psychotherapy and counseling practice, treating the victims of "The Loser", patterns of attitude and behavior emerge in "The Loser" that can now be listed and identified in the hopes of providing early identification and warning. When those signs and indicators surface and the pattern is identified, we must move quickly to get away from the situation. Continuing a relationship with "The Loser" will result in a relationship that involves intimidation, fear, angry outbursts, paranoid control, and a total loss of your self-esteem and self-confidence.

 

If you have been involved in a long-term relationship with "The Loser", after you successfully escape you may notice that you have sustained some psychological damage that will require professional repair. In many cases, the stress has been so severe that you may have a stress-produced depression. You may have severe damage to your self-confidence/self-esteem or to your feelings about the opposite sex or relationships. Psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and counselors are available in your community to assist and guide you as you recover from your damaging relationship with "The Loser".

 

[COLOR=#0000ff]Joseph M Carver, Ph.D., Psychologist[/COLOR]

[MoonGirl]

RF,

 

Your husband and mine sound like they could be brothers. So, your husband hasn't hit you (yet), but he IS violent. And he hasn't directly insulted you, but he DOES insult nearly everything you do. I never thought my husband would hit me... like yours, he was violent when we argued (red flag!) and after I was completely trapped by marriage AND children, he also became violent toward me. BUT as you already know, the craziness that verbal and emotional abuse cause are terrible, and physical violence need not even be part of the equation for you to be deeply emotionally abused. Your husband has you convinced that YOU are wrong, that YOU are guilty, that YOU are to blame for everything that goes wrong in your relationship. I know that you understand that this is not true to some degree, but it is obvious that you question reality.

 

Here is the reality: Your husband is emotionally abusive. He plays games with you. He disrespects you and your feelings. He manipulates you. He has only his best interests in mind. He is violent. He insults you.

 

Of course he is nice sometimes! The majority of "Loosers" have very redeeming qualities, my husband included. That's what makes it so hard to leave them (along with all the guilt and fear of the unknown).

 

I know that you're not perfect, but, sweetie, no one (even if they're not perfect) deserves to be emotionally abused.

 

Because I have been where you are, I know how hard it is to leave. And I know you won't leave until you're ready to go. The saddest thing is that most women do not leave their husbands because of abuse, but many leave because of neglect. I truly hope that you are one of the brave ones. Pick up your dignity, throw it over your shoulder, and GO. Your vision is blurry right now because of all of the mind games your husband plays with you. You need some serious time away from him and you'll begin to see with new spectacles.

[MoonGirl]

RF,

 

By the way, the Looser article is great.... I have only a couple reservations with it, especially with the advice offered about to trying to detach from and leave a "Looser". I think that a lot more emotional damage can be caused to the victim of abuse by using the method he suggests for leaving. I think cutting off all contact is the best way to go...no calls, emails, or texts at all. I say this because, even though it is really hard to do (emotionally), it is the only way you can avoid being abused more. If the "Looser" has easy access to communication with you, he will continue to insult you, guilt trip you, play games, etc...and the chances of you returning to him are higher.

Becoming a bore may help the "Looser" move on in some instances, but with a very long, commited relationship, I'm just not sure if it would work that well.