Packing, what now?

[ilmw]

ilmw,

 

Yes, her husband is a cop.

 

Ok..good to know...

 

If he is threatening suicide.... his supervisor should be notifed. If he is saying things like this.... he should NOT be carrying a sidearm. The opportunity to take ones own life... when there is a "tool" straped to your hip is a nightmare in the making.

 

Another thing.... he should know better. In this day and age.... the profession of policing is held at such a higher standard than it ever has before. Some of the things you have said cause me to be concerned.

 

Not necessarily that he would actually do something to harm himself.... I don't know him...I don't work with him.... but I'll tell you this... I would not want to work along someone who is talking like this.

 

He needs some kind of intervention. (WORK)

 

As for how he acts and treats you.... controlling... thinks he is always right...etc. These are common traits found in police officers.. A type personalities. I have had some similar traits myself.... I won't go into detail here... as I posted a bunch of this stuff in my own thread. Plus I dealt with my crap a different way.

 

Let me set things straight. I don't condone anything he has done...said or how he has acted. OK. He needs to get his Sh*t together... cause not only could he lose you.... he could end up screwing up his career.

 

I could probably post a bunch of stats... and other stuff... but I'm not gonna.

 

I hope this made some sense.... I'm pooched ...brain dead....and still have to work out..

 

Take care...

ilmw

 

 

j

[dgiirl]

Did you or did you not write the following?

 

We both mention the D word when we fight (most likly to manipulate the other) and both agree we are not sure if this will last.

 

Are you retracting this statement? Why does the divorce word only come up during arguments? You admit that it's a weapon that you use to manipulate and control the other person. Based on this information and a few other key things you've mentioned, it's very clear that manipulation tactics is common for both of you.

 

 

While you may think I am being immature for trying to talk to my H about our problems, I do not agree.

 

I never once said trying to resolve your marital problems was immature. I said both of your communication methods while angry are immature. I'm trying to get you to look at the context of your situation. Why did your husband tell you about DV? What was the context in him telling you to give him space?

 

I get the impression that you wanted to discuss things, and after 30 minutes of you talking your husband started to get frustrated and tried to avoid conflict with you. He wanted space and wanted to leave, in which you would not allow him too because you were not finished talking. It doesnt sound like you have an equal relationship. It sounds like you both are in a power struggle for control. I grant that you have very legitimate complaints. But based on his reactions, it doesnt sound like you are approaching him in a way where he doesnt feel under attack.

 

I'm simply trying to get you to look within yourself and realize that it's VERY easy to paint your husband as a villian and play the victim role. And in some things, he is VERY wrong. But you have a very important role in this relationship and you BOTH built this dysfunctional relationship. If you just want to be told that you are right, fine, you're right! Your husband is treating you like crap and it's not right nor fair. But life is not always fair. Sometimes we have to do more, even tho it's not fair. I dont think this was how he treated you from day one? Did it not slowly get worse and worse? Relationships evolve as we feed off each other. Your relationship is cyclical. He's reacting to your reactions of his actions to your actions. What I'm trying to do is make you stop the cycle!

 

Right now your focus is internal to how you are feeling and how you are being treated and you are trying to resolve that. I'm not criticizing you for this. Your actions are very common and natural. But this doesnt help your situation. You can continue to focus internally and keep doing what you've been doing all along. However, it doesnt sound like it's working too well? An alternative would be to focus more externally and pay attention to your husbands reactions. When does he withdraw from you? What were the circumstances, what was the context, what did you say and how did he perceive it? And then try to think on how you could have done things differently? Try to be more empathetic towards your husband. Again, do not read this as me placing blame on you! There is NO blame. And having someone to blame is absolutely useless when it comes to relationships. But when you can actually look at your situation objectively, and find the patterns in your relationships, what causes him to do abc, what causes you to do xyz, then you can see where the problems are and how to resolve them.

 

And please know that everyone on this forum offers advice from the best of intentions. I'm not here to criticizes you or judge you. I am honestly trying to offer you the best advice I can offer.

[redfathom]

Red,

 

Is your H in Law Enforcement?

 

I am asking for a reason...

 

ilmw

 

Yes he is.

[redfathom]

I get the impression that you wanted to discuss things, and after 30 minutes of you talking your husband started to get frustrated and tried to avoid conflict with you. He wanted space and wanted to leave, in which you would not allow him too because you were not finished talking.

 

Dgirl, in this situation and most of the time, my H is the one who does the talking, the blaming the confronting, he is really good and talking and most of the time the issue I brought up to dicuss will be turned around so that he is the vicitm and I feel guilty about being angry at him for something he did that hurt me. He does bring up good points and is great and talking in general.

 

As for the D word being brought up to manipulate the other, my H admited he does this one. I can say about two years ago I would bluff and tell him I was packing my things, but that was a long time ago when I would do that. Now when we talk about it I bring it up as an options, that if we are not happy there is always an out for both of us.

 

Also, I know you are not critiziing me (at this time I am vulnerable and so I will and do take something the wrong way). I understand your point and I do not want people to tell me I am right because that will get me no where. I want people to be onjective as you have and say, despite who is at fault, there is a break down some where and someone, preferbly both of you have to fix it. That is what I want, to say I did my best I tried to improve the dysfunctional part I contributed to the relationship and I want my H to do his best to correct his mistakes. Then we will truly know if we are meant to be together.

 

All I really want is for us to be nice to each other. I do not want one person to cater to the other person, I want each person to do nice selfless things for the other.

[redfathom]

Hi, so I saw my H yesterday. We have a great date, he dressed up and did his hair nice, he took me to see a movie I wanted to see and then to dinner. We tried to leave all talk of the relationship out so we could just enjoy each others company. When night came around, he asked me to stay because he misses me and I agreed (even though I was a little sceptical). It was nice, we laid down together and talked. He talked about his suicidal thoughts and I told him he needs to see someone because I can not help him and he seems okay with that. We were both affectionate, which I am not sure is a good thing.

 

ilmw, if he brings it up again, I am going to tell his supervisor (I am a little cautious about this because I do not want to ruin his career which could make things worse). I could use a little more info from you as to what expect from his work.

[redfathom]

One other thing, I asked him about the DV comment, the "do you know how many times I go to a DV call and all the women had to do what let the guy leave" I asked him if that was some kindof warning, because it seemed that way to me. He said, "no, I love you and would never hurt you, if you are ever scared that I would hurt you, I would want you to leave this relationship."

 

Not sure what to think about that one. I mean I was scared when he said that but in general I have never been afraid of him.

[AHIWON]

Did he say he would see someone like an MD about his suicidal thoughts or just kind of fluffed it off? Showing other signs of depression?

[jnb]

If divorce is always an option then the marriage will always end in divorce. I'm not saying a battered wife should stay in bad situation, or an EA isn't reason enough to leave but come on how many of us got married to get a divorce. Knowing there's a way out through divorce for any reason is a cop out.

 

One thing no one has said that really should be said is men need to succeed in everything they do, it's part of their male genetic make up. If a man is afraid of failure either one of two thing will happen, either he'll walk away out of fear of making a fool of himself or he'll fight like the dickens to succeed and worry the entire time he's doing it until he does succeed. Men are afraid of failure, failing their jobs, failing their families, failing their wife. If you can recongnize this half his battle is already won.

 

Oh and men do fail all the time, how they respond to it depends on how their spouse treats them over it. The cycle can be a positive or negative, all depends on how you look at it.

[redfathom]

He has said that he is depressed. He said that he has not been wanting to do the things he enjoys because of it. He also said that he is having a hard time getting up, even after his alarm goes off.

 

I am trying to encourage him to do things. He kind of fluffed it, but also seemed to think it is a good idea. This is something I will continue to support. I see my therapist on Tuesday so I will be sure to talk to her about this again and we see an MC next month. I will in the mean time start looking into options for him.

 

He just called from out of town, we could not talk long but he seemed very sad and said that he really misses me. I am going to try to talk to him as often as possible and this weekend we are going on a date.

 

This is starting to become very hard for me, I am starting to think that I will have to go back (which I want to eventually) so that we can work on this. I feel like I am being selfish by not going home and helping him. I know if I go home he will feel much better and we can still work on our marriage but at least it will easier for both of us having each other for support.

 

What other signs should I be looking for?

[redfathom]

JNB, sometimes D is the best option, it is not always a cop out, being someone for the sake of not looking like a failure is not a good reason to be with someone. Staying with someone so that you or they can save face is again not a good reason to be with someone. I DO want to be with my H for the rest of my life as long as we will benefit each other and care for each other. This does not mean we can't or won't fight, disagree, be angry, ect, this just means that we have to be together for the right reasons. The wrong reasons would be to take advantage of the other, because you do not want to be alone (as in this is better then being single, even though I do not really love this person) because those reasons are not fair to anyone.

 

I agree 100% that men do not want to fail and will do what is necessary so that does not happen, the one things I told my H yesterday was that I was in no way rejecting him, that I love him and we need some space to figure what is the best way to love each other.

 

I also think and this is selfish on my part, that I need the space because I have never been on my own. While my H is part of the reason that I moved out to get some space so is the fact that I have been in a relationship since I was 15. I have always since I was 15 been in the role of caretaker. If I was a little older this would have been a lot easier. I understand that this is not fair to my H and him and I dicussed this.

 

The thing is, this weekend has made me realize that I DO 100% want to get back to a place where we love each other unselfishly. I think we can. I am also afraid that if I go back to soon we may fight and more damage may be done. I am torn, there is a fight raging inside me between my head and my heart and deep down I want my heart to win.

 

People do bad things to each other and it sucks and sometime you need some time to think clearly to understand that hey, I would rather live with this person with all their faults and bad habits then without them. I would rather forgive there mistakes then live without them.

 

It is hard when I have no comparison, I don't know what it is to be on my own or with any other person. All I know is this!

 

Also, each and everyone of us got married thinking that things would work out that we could and would always be nice to each other. I don't want anything more or less then that. I just want my H to be nice to me, not to agree with me, spoil me, worship me, cater to me, just to be nice to me.

 

If you don't ask or tell someone what you want then you can't get mad when things don't turn out the way you want. And I do not want things to turn out the way I want 100% of the time, I want a negotiation and compromise. If you don't tell your partner what is the right and wrong way you love you then you both might lose out on something very special.

[AHIWON]

Here are some symptoms of depression that I googled and stole:

 

• You feel miserable and sad.

  
  

• You feel exhausted a lot of the time with no energy .

  
  

• You feel as if even the smallest tasks are sometimes impossible.

  
  

• You seldom enjoy the things that you used to enjoy-you may be off sex or food or may 'comfort eat' to excess.

  
  

• You feel very anxious sometimes.

  
  

  
  

• You don't want to see people or are scared to be left alone. Social activity may feel hard or impossible.

  
  

  
  

• You find it difficult to think clearly.

  
  

  
  

• You feel like a failure and/or feel guilty a lot of the time.

  
  

  
  

• You feel a burden to others.

  
  

  
  

• You sometimes feel that life isn't worth living.

  
  

  
  

• You can see no future. There is a loss of hope. You feel all you've ever done is make mistakes and that's all that you ever will do.

  
  

• You feel irritable or angry more than usual.

  
  

  
  

• You feel you have no confidence.

  
  

  
  

• You spend a lot of time thinking about what has gone wrong, what will go wrong or what is wrong about yourself as a person. You may also feel guilty sometimes about being critical of others (or even thinking critically about them).

  
  

• You feel that life is unfair.

  
  

  
  

• You have difficulty sleeping or wake up very early in the morning and can't sleep again. You seem to dream all night long and sometimes have disturbing dreams.

  
  

  
  

• You feel that life has/is 'passing you by.'

  
  

  
  

• You may have physical aches and pains which appear to have no physical cause, such as back pain.

  
  

Now maybe he really does have depression and maybe not. Depends on if he is pretending he as as a way to get you to agree to move back. Does he have any history of manipulation that you can think of?

 

I'm not so sure all men have huge issues with failure. I don't anyway. Everyone makes mistakes. Almost everyone knows that (except my SO) I feel remorse, learn from it and move on. Hopefully don't make the same mistake again.

[redfathom]

It is possible that he may have depression, life was very upfair to him growing up. His family was poor (sometimes he would have to steal food from the neighbors) and his mother was, well, crazy. She did not care for her kids the way a mother should have, even after being put on medication she did not get much better. Her therapist validated much of what she did, even though it was wrong, her therapist was much of the problem. This really took a toll on him. This is one of the reasons I decided to put my needs aside, I figured he deserved to have a good life and I was going to do what I could to make sure that happened.

 

I am not sure if he has a history of manipulation, it's hard to say because sometime manipulation is very unrecongizable. I will have to think about that.

 

Thanks for the list, I think I will share it with my H so he can tell me how many of those things he relates to and maybe that will help motivate him to see someone.

 

Also, I just read your post and I am sorry that you had to battle with something like depression. I am glade you regognized it and got help, I hope you can save your marriage. Cheating is a horrible and selfish thing and most people relize that the grass is not greener on the other side. I hope your W learns this before she has lost you for good. Please do what you can for yourself, go do something you have always wanted to and never had the time.

[Gunny376]

I've never been in law enforcement ~ my carrer was in the military~ twenty years in the United States Marine Corps.

 

The toughest time wasn't the first four years, nor the first ten years, nor even the first fifteen years. nor even the first twenty years. The toughest times was the eleven years since I retired. That's when the PTSD hit home. That's when all the memories came haunting. That's when it kicked my ass!!!!! That's when I found out that "Reality" ain't no joke! That's when I found out Mr. Reality will "walk talll" on your azz, and carried a hickory ax handle!

 

Depression is another "mother-trucker". PTSD is a bitch! Its depression with "pay-day" loan intrest due come Friday! :mad: :mad:

[Ladyjane14]

 

This is starting to become very hard for me, I am starting to think that I will have to go back (which I want to eventually) so that we can work on this. I feel like I am being selfish by not going home and helping him. I know if I go home he will feel much better and we can still work on our marriage but at least it will easier for both of us having each other for support.

 

Change must come from within. If your husband elects to make changes, he needs to do that because he sees it as the right thing to do. Not just because you tell him to. It doesn't stick unless we CHOOSE it.

 

I think maybe you'd do well to define your personal boundaries within the context of the relationship. What kind of treatment are you willing to accept? What are the deal-breakers?

 

When you share that information with him and ask him to share similar information with you... you have a bit of a starting point. Now, it's easy to see that you've laid out some parameters and asked each other to conform to them. And on the surface it SEEMS like the two of you are attempting to make internal changes on the basis of suiting the other. BUT.... that's not good enough.

 

The changes that each of you each make must be authentic. They need to be something that you'd adhere to even if reconciliation of the marriage was off the table. These changes have to be something that you see as good for you regardless of the continuation of the marriage.

 

In that context, I think you can see that there's nothing you can do to "help" him aside from giving him the framework of your boundaries. Letting him know what you need will give him a focal point for introspective exploration, but it doesn't guarantee true change unless he makes those changes on his own.

 

You can see this better when you imagine your own reaction to his list of personal boundaries. Some items will be easy, others will require you to adopt new thought-patterns. Now, if you simply agreed to whatever you saw or promised to work on them later... the changes aren't already in place.

 

Throughout your thread, I've noticed a propensity in this guy to make promises but not to follow through on them. Words must be met with action. Now, he's telling you that he's willing to get some counseling. My advice to you would be to watch him and see if he carries through on that.

 

A person who's depressed might hit rock bottom in the same way an alcoholic would. When they've sustained enough personal losses due to their depression, they finally have to ask themselves some hard questions. This holds true for ALOT of folks under alot of different conditions. Sometimes just plain old 'Stubborn' needs to hit rock bottom too.

 

While I understand your impetus to go back into the marriage, I think it's important that you at least have a PLAN for getting the work accomplished before you commit to returning. Otherwise, you two have just taken a stroll through Hell with nothing to show for it. Don't let this separation become arbitrary in it's meaning. Make sure you can see results.

[jnb]

Redfathom,

 

What you are going thru is normal, what your husband is going thru is also normal. I read your post to me from last night and you sound much better, as if you're moving from the emotional stage to clearer level headed thinking. That's great because now you can begin the healing process for both of you or just yourself depending on what avenue you take.

 

Obviously you love your husband and want to make things work, this will be easier for both of you if you and he can agree that bad arguements, silly arguements and tempers DO rage even in the best of marriages. He wants to work on things and so do you, you've both won half the battle.

 

First of all I want to give you the actual depression symptoms. The information comes from a text book for the Society of Certified Senior Advisors. The age is irrelevant as the symtoms are the same for both over age and under age.

 

The following symptoms, which must be present for at least two weeks and impari the individuals normal daily functioning, are included in the diagnosis of a major depressive episode:

• Feeling sad, blue, or depressd or experiencing a loss of interrest or enjoyment in life
  
• atleast four of the folling symptoms:
  
• changes in appetite (may be accompanied by weight loss or gain)
  
• changes in sleep (too much or not enough)
  
• agitation or retardation of movement
  
• fatigue or decreased energy
  
• feeling worthless or guilty
  
• problems with attention and concentration or difficulty making decisions
  
• thoughts of suicide

To be considered part of depression, these symptoms cannot be the direct result of an organic factor (i.e., medication, medical illness, or an abused drug). The symptoms also cannot be part of usual bereavement after the loss of a loved one.

Bereavement is the experience of the death of a loved one. Grief is the emotional response to a loss. There are five stages to the grieving period, Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance.

 

As you can see, from what you've described in your posts your husband is reacting normal. I don't know if you're aware of this or not but the second largest reason for grief is the loss of a spouse thru divorce, trumped only by death.

 

It's in both your best interests for you both to understand these problems before jumping to any conclusions or actions that may destroy a persons career (I'm glad you sat back and thought about talking to his supervisor).

 

You should never return home because you feel guilty or responsible for him, if you fear him or simply are not ready to return to life the way it was/is. If you do you may resent him in the future which will only lead to more problems for the both of you.

 

I'm not a fan of MC or IC. I am however a fan of MC with a minister/pastor/rabbi, if you have one I would recommend the both of you start there together. Not only are they wonderful listeners, have sound advice, they can teach the two of you how to work together thru the use of the scripture. You don't have to be a bible thumper to gain the wisdom from the book.

[redfathom]

So I am going to tell my H the only way I will come home is if he sees someone for his depression and to help him with these thought he is having. If at that point it is not just his depression talking then we can start to work on the things that we need to do to fix our relationship and once I see that we are both serious about this then I will come back (if that is still what we both want). I understand this might take a while, maybe like 3 months. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should comtinue to handle the depression and thought he is having?

[redfathom]

JNB, neither of us are very religous, my H considers himself to be Jewish by race so I was thinking of suggesting that he go talk to the local Rabbi.

 

Also, I am feeling a little more level headed but I am still torn as to what I should do. What I want to do and what I think I have to do is conflicting. I need some more time but I feel like I need to be there for him. Him and I just need to talk a lot more before any decisions are made.

 

I did let him know that I want to go to the book store together and pick up some relationship books and he said he would if we could find them on tape.

[jnb]

So I am going to tell my H the only way I will come home is if he sees someone for his depression and to help him with these thought he is having. If at that point it is not just his depression talking then we can start to work on the things that we need to do to fix our relationship and once I see that we are both serious about this then I will come back (if that is still what we both want). I understand this might take a while, maybe like 3 months. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should comtinue to handle the depression and thought he is having?

 

 

Yes, I suggest you see my prior post with the information on depression. Also, give the man a little slack, you've left him, he's entitled to be depressed, he's only human.

[redfathom]

I looked up the grief process when divorcing and found a very helpful website. This is what is says about emotional abuse and the signs:

 

1. They call you names. My H does not do this one, this is a huge deal breaker. He does put down things I do or say.

 

All the rest, I agree with in my situation.

 

2. You are always told that it’s your fault. Somehow, whatever happens, however it starts, the ultimate blame is always yours. Notice that we are talking ultimate blame here. The blaming partner will always tell you that their behavior was caused by what you said or did. In fact, their argument runs along the lines that you can’t possibly blame them for anything, because if you hadn’t said what you said, or done what you did it would never have happened.

3. You’re more inclined to believe your partner than you are to believe yourself. Have you ever reeled with a sense of hurt and injustice, or seethed with anger at the way you’ve been treated? Have you found yourself asking: “Is it reasonable to feel like this?” “Am I misinterpreting things?” “Have I got it wrong?”

If this is you, what it means is that you have become so brainwashed you’ve stopped trusting in your own judgment. Your mind keeps throwing up the observations and questions because, deep down, you know that what is happening is utterly wrong. But right now you can’t feel the strength of your own convictions.

4. You need your partner to acknowledge your feelings. Have you ever felt desperate to make your partner hear what you are saying and apologize for the hurtful things they’ve said? Have you ever felt that only they can heal the pain they’ve caused?

Does your need for them to validate your feelings keep you hooked into the relationship?

When a partner constantly denies or refuses to listen to your feelings, that is, unquestionably, mental abuse.

5. Your partner blows hot and cold. He can be very loving but is often highly critical of you. He may tell you how much he loves you, yet he is short on care or consideration towards you. In fact, some of the time, maybe even a lot of the time, he treats you as if you were someone he truly dislikes.

You do everything you can to make him happy, but it’s never good enough. You’re more like the pet dog in the relationship than you are the equal partner. Your constant efforts to get his attention and please him meet with limited success. Sometimes he’ll be charmed, often he’s dismissive.

If you find yourself puzzling about how your partner can treat you that way, it is because you are trying to live in a love-based relationship, when in reality you are living in a control-based relationship. The mental abuser struggles with his own feelings of worthlessness and uses his relationship to create a feeling of personal power, at his partner’s expense.

6. You feel as if you are constantly walking on eggshells. There is a real degree of fear in the relationship. You have come to dread his outbursts, the hurtful things that he will find to say to you. (Maybe the same anxiety and need to please spill over into your other relationships also.)

Fear is not part of a loving relationship, but it is a vital part of a mentally abusive relationship. It enables the abuser to maintain control over you.

[MoonGirl]

RF,

 

Based on your previous posts, I've been trying to tell you this all along. From what you've written, it certainly does seem to me that your husband is abusing you emotionally.

 

Please read one of Patricia Evans books on verbal/emotional abuse. I think you will really be able to relate to what she has to say. She even offers many helpful strategies for women who choose to stay with men who verbally/emotionally abuse.

[redfathom]

I know this is something I have known for a long time. It was just put so plainly and simply in the above article it made it make even more sense. I do have a book on emotional abuse I picked up last week. I see my therpist tomorrow and I think I will bring this with me to share with her.

 

This makes me even more confused. I am wondering if I share this with my H if he will see what he has been doing and maybe be more inclined to change, of course right now does not seem like a good time for him to read this.

 

Moongirl, you are the best!

[MoonGirl]

Hi RF,

 

No, if he's depressed you may want to wait a bit. Get some info from your therapist about how to approach the topic with your husband as well as some additional info from Patricia Evan's books. She offers a lot of suggestions about how to talk to verbal abusers about the abuse, how to cope with the abuse, and how to (in some cases) reduce the amount of abuse.

 

Most abusers do not see themselves as abusers, even after (and sometimes especially after) you have brought up the topic with them. They have trouble taking responsibility for their own actions and truly do rationalize inside themselves that nothing is ever their fault. In a sense, many of them believe that they are the victim.

 

Keep going to therapy, keep reading, and do the soul-searching you need to do.

[dgiirl]

As for the D word being brought up to manipulate the other, my H admited he does this one. I can say about two years ago I would bluff and tell him I was packing my things, but that was a long time ago when I would do that. Now when we talk about it I bring it up as an options, that if we are not happy there is always an out for both of us.

 

That's the whole point tho. You both have communicated badly and one upped each other. Clearly your husband has some issues right now, but was it always like that? I dont think it ever starts out that way.

 

 

You mention that you are feeling guilty for leaving and think you should go back. The worse thing you can do right now is to go back to him out of pity or guilt. Stop martyring yourself. You are entitled to be treated in the way you deserve. But you also command respect by treating people in the way you expect to be treated. So stop feeling guilty for setting boundaries.

 

Personally, I would not tell your husband that you will come back if he goes into therapy. Instead, I would simply tell him that before you even contemplate coming back, he needs to get into therapy. He needs to get into therapy, even if you never come back, he needs it. This will test to see if he's willing to back up his words with action. If he goes into therapy without an instant payoff, then you might have something to work with. Also, you dont need to be in the same house, 24/7 to work on this marriage. In fact, it sometimes is better for couples to be apart to get a clear look at what's going on. And now that you ARE out, I would continue working on the marriage from where you are. You can still meet up, talk about what's going on. You just dont need to be in the house together 24/7.

 

I also want to support what jnb said. Remember, this is still a guy who's wife just left him. Of course he'll be a little emotionally unstable. This is where you have to focus externally a little, remove yourself from the equation and look at your situation objectively. Try and focus on the end goal and how to get there. He's going to slip up. You are going to slip up. But keep examining your interactions and examining both your feelings/intentions/perceptions.

[redfathom]

So I am back. I am at my house with my H. I came over last night and we already started to fight. When I got here he was cleaning the house, I asked him where I could put my things so they would not be in the way.

 

The plan yesterday was that I came over to cook a nice dinner and we would watch movies. So when I came over we were going to the grocery store, which we did.

 

Here is what happened. At the gorcery store my H was very quite and distant so I asked him what was wrong. He said he was upset because I did not thank for cleaning the house (which I remember doing) he said since I did not thank him I did not appreciate it and therefore when i cook dinner I am going to leave a mess that he will have to clean up and he is not sure that he wants me to make dinner. I said I did say thank you, I acknowledged it if I was a little quit about it it is because i feel guilty that I was not there to help. So he pouts but I end up making dinner. While cooking I clean EVERY dish, hand wash and dry and put away. The dinner I made takes an hour so at this point I am upset that he could not just say thank you for cooking and give me the benefit of the doubt that I will clean up with out rubbing it in my face. I did not want to use the dish washer because he would have to put them away later. As I am finishing he says you did not have to wash every dish, you took what I said out of context. So again, I am confused as to what i should do, I do to little, I do to much. So at this point I am a litle angry and feel like I am not welcomed that every thing I do will be scrutinized and he will just keep saying I am inconsiderate and a slob.

 

At this point I am not being very affectionate, actually I have not been affectionate, he is and I respond but I am hardly initiating any affection. I do not want to fall back into the same pattern we were in so I am being distant.

 

So this morning, he is pouting so I ask what is wrong do you not want to spend the day together and he said he needs to get his thought in order. he finally says that he is upset because I am being distant and not affectionate. He says he is not sure if I am doing this on purpose but he is very hurt by it. I said I am being distance and that I want to come back but only if things will change. He says he has changed (I guess being affectionate is the change he means) Then he says when he saw me last week and he got all dressed up I did not say anything, which was not true. I told him he looked very nice and that it was great that he got all dressed up. I told him I think he is missing all of these things because he is alrady assuming I am inconsiderate and therefore would never say something or do something nice. He said that is not the case.

 

So he said this morning how are we supposed to fall back in love if you are not being affectionate so I said sorry but you hurt my feelings so I put up a wall so that my feelings do not get hurt. He aid he is nt tyring to burt my feelings but how am I going to chnage unless he points out all the times I am inconsiderate.

 

I could use some thought, I am not sure what will happen today, he is getting ready and does not want to talk to me. All I want is to take things slow and progress.

[ilmw]

Red,

 

Some thoughts...from a guy who kinda sounds like your husband... a while back.

 

I used to pout if my DW did not pat me on the head.. every time I did something around the house. I used to think stupid thoughts... If she doesn't show me affection... I won't show her the same... It is a cancer in a relationship... when each person... reciprocates and the damage increases... as each of you continue the tit for tat behaviour.

 

It only takes one to work on a relationship....but it does take two to be in one... you can lead by example.... do things without expectations... show you can be happy with out him being happy... do things for yourself... that can also have a positive... outcome for both of you.

 

DO NOT let his mood effect yours... and remember... good moods and smiles or infectious...

 

You show a positive attitude.... it can only... have a positive effect.

 

and... lastly.... DO NOT let him drag you into an argument. If he wants to nit pick.. or whine.... be friendly... understanding...

 

We men can be pretty thick headed.. and can at times... act like little boys... It is not an excuse.... and I for one... am not particularly proud... of some of the immature antics I have done... in the past...

 

But then again.... I really had no idea... I truly did not know I was damaging my relationship with my wife...

 

If you have not read any decent books on relationships... Id highly recommend you pick yourself up some..... there is a post on LS with a bunch listed... We men and woman communicate differently; as I'm sure you know... so learning how and why.. and the differences, is a big help.

 

I for one... kinda get it... and that is a first.

 

I'm still learning... and reading... 9 books now... and also ones on personal growth... I have seen... that.. you can change for the better... and over the past 10 months... I do not recognise myself.. from the man I used to be...

 

So... there is hope... but it sounds like you will be the one to take charge. As your H.... is in the boat I was once in....

 

Hope for the best, expect the worst... can motivate you to work your damdist ...

 

best of luck... and stay strong

 

ilmw