I have had ENOUGH!

October 11, 2006

Word Dgirl.

There are a few circumstances that are caused by disease or genetics that cannot be cured by diet alone. Since I do not have the stats available I will take a guess that at least 70% of obese people are that way because of lifestyle choices. (if you are depressed and choose not to seek treatment that is also a choice.)

Who brings the food to the people who cannot move out of bed...... who/why?

October 11, 2006

As pointed out by a few people on the first, second, seventh, ninth, and tenth pages- that was a hypothetical example. Harsh words to make a point.

Not making it socially acceptable for these fast food chains to pump us with genetically modifed, high fat foods might help?

Either way PA, whether you've retracted your statement on any page, I'll have to refer back to what I've said, I can almost very clearly understand your POV, but the message gets lost in your tone and I find it hard to advocate that.

As far as making it socially acceptable...it's a choice. We can agree to disagree on whether the fast food chains are in the right to promote any types of food. Actually, I can agree with you there.

Sheesh, these days you can die from lettuce, spinach, chicken, beef, etc. What is there to eat anymore? (Another thread, I know)

October 11, 2006

There's too much emphasis on health here all of a sudden and not enough on asthetics.

October 11, 2006

There's too much emphasis on health here all of a sudden and not enough on asthetics.

:lmao: takes the fun right outta it donuts it?

October 11, 2006

There's too much emphasis on health here all of a sudden and not enough on asthetics.

If it had been from the beginning, I'd have no problem with any of this.

October 11, 2006

I've put on weight before. When I was on depakote, after my seizures started. Or after I became pregnant twice. All the times I got chub, I worked to lose the weight immediately after realizing how tubb-o I had become.

I just don't see what the big deal is. It was never hard for me to lose weight. I just ate less and exercised more, big woo. It wasn't horrifically painful and I wasn't wretched. I just exercised and stopped eating dessert and drinking soda, which is crap for you anyways.

beyond that, what you put into your body affects everything -- your mind, emotions, ability to handle stress.

I want to know why it's so hard for some people to lose weight. Not to be mean, but just out of curiosity.

October 11, 2006

I don't mind trying to help people live healthier, what I do mind is when other peoples opinions infringe on my choices. As long as that line isn't crossed, then no problem. But do not make MY health decisions for me. It's one thing to educate, another to force. Next thing I know, you'll be telling me I HAVE TO have this new chemical shot into my arm because it'll increase my life by 30 years. I'm over having people tell me what I need. I had anthrax pumped in me already so I'd be "healthy", and a million other immunizations that I still have no idea what they were... I was sick for days, and my joints still ache. Just stay away from my body and we're fine.

And Every GD second I hear a different version of "nutrition". This food is bad for you stop eating it. Oh, wait, it's good for you now.. eat it.. now coffee is bad, now it's good. Eggs good, then bad, now good again! Geesh!!! When you all make up your minds on what "healthy" is, then come back and spread the word. But til then... it's all a load of poo as far as I'm concerned. I eat what I want, and if I live, I live.. I only have enough in savings to last me til I'm 67 anyway.. I don't really look forward to having an addition 20 years tacked onto my life.

I'm still trying to figure out how a link was established btween increased health care costs and obesity. I'm going to do some research on this. But I really feel that the link is not substantial enough to say it's cause and effect. I think obesity is increasing, and health care costs are increasing.. but I don't necessarily agree that the two are directly inter-related. I think health care costs would have risen anyway. New technology, lawsuits, cost of living, increases in energy costs, etc... Not specifically "because" fat people are more prone to disease.

Not to mention societies views on going to the doctor have changed. Not so many decades ago, the last thing you admitted to was going to the doctor. Those were saved for births and immediate death. Not every single little ache, pain, and mole. So what are the facts that prove obese people caused an increase in health care costs? Which seemed to be implied much earlier in this thread. That 'they' created the burden in costs we now suffer under.

October 11, 2006

Actually, I disagree that overweight people only harm themselves. Just like smoking, they are a strain on society. They are a strain on health costs. A lot of hospitals cannot accommodate a large person and thus need to buy new equipment, or travel long distances to bring the person to a hospital that can accomodate them. They are a strain on disability insurance and a lot of them collect some kind of worker's compensation. They dont work, and meanwhile, I have to pay for them. And business are now needing to make changes to accomodate them. They get upset with airlines because they need to buy two seats. Two seats that USE to accomodate people with no problems in the past and now they complain about being discriminated. And I'm sorry to say this, but as a normal size person who CAN sit in this seat comfortably, it does intrude on my personal space when a larger person sits next to me who cannot fit into the seat properly. Overweight people do not just harm themselves. They harm society as a whole.

We really should be differentiating here between "overweight" and "morbidly obese." I'm overweight, but I fit in an airline seat, work full-time (and then some,) pay more taxes than most Americans, and am no more harming "society as a whole" than the guy next to you who doesn't cover his mouth when he sneezes. If someone doesn't like my looks? I can live with that. Am I lazy? No one that matters thinks so.

I feel sorry (and sometimes disgusted) by those who are so large it's a disability, but you can't reasonably categorize all overweight people that way.

October 11, 2006

So what are the facts that prove obese people caused an increase in health care costs? Which seemed to be implied much earlier in this thread. That 'they' created the burden in costs we now suffer under.

just google the following obesity increases health care costs

many articles med pubs and studies on this subject.

think how many orthopedic surgeries are needed for knees alone due to obesity...... I know 4 large people that had to have this type of surgery because they simply cannot take that much weight on their bones and are not eating in a healthy manner.

October 11, 2006

Who brings the food to the people who cannot move out of bed...... who/why?

I've heard of these "feeders". Men who have a fetish for very overweight women who are permanently confined to their homes. I guess, like so many other things, that's a control issue.

Every so often, the BBC will run a healthy eating campaign over here. "Get the Nation fit" - that kind of idea. I know a lot of people who like getting into these national campaigns because it makes them feel like part of a group effort. Similar story with Weight-watchers. Make it positive, make it fun - encourage people to feel great about themselves when they lose a few pounds....motivate them to put less successful weeks behind them in order to get back on target. I know quite a few people who've lost weight through that method...and kept it off too.

With all the information available on how to eat healthily on the cheap, it shouldn't be that difficult for anyone to lose weight if they need to. By the same logic, though, one could say that with all the information available on how to help people effectively, there's no excuse for anyone to adopt the old fashioned judgemental nanny approach that most people find very off-putting.

Anyone who genuinely cares about helping others to make improvements will surely put in the time to figure out what actually works when it comes to motivating them. Pure criticism, judgements and the desire to instil a sense of shame in obese people will often just encourage them to develop more secretive eating habits...which is a recipe for disaster.

I've encountered people like that before. They totally avoid eating in public, but you just know that the moment they're alone they'll be shovelling food down like it's going out of fashion. These are the kinds of habits that need to be addressed. Encouraging people to get back into the way of seeing eating as a fun social activity rather than a shameful thing that must be done away from prying eyes. And if a person wants a piece of sticky toffee pudding once a week, let them have it without harping on at them. A little of what you fancy does no real harm, and it makes life a bit more fun.

October 11, 2006

We really should be differentiating here between "overweight" and "morbidly obese." I'm overweight, but I fit in an airline seat, work full-time (and then some,) pay more taxes than most Americans, and am no more harming "society as a whole" than the guy next to you who doesn't cover his mouth when he sneezes. If someone doesn't like my looks? I can live with that. Am I lazy? No one that matters thinks so.

I feel sorry (and sometimes disgusted) by those who are so large it's a disability, but you can't reasonably categorize all overweight people that way.

quite true stoopid...... and I am talking about those that are obese not just happily chunky or full figured.

October 11, 2006

Interesting thread.

I like the analogies with smokers - they left me thinking. I didn't know that bashing smokers (who are not smoking where it would be rude to) is acceptable in so many countries.

Perhaps the fact that smoking was portrayed as cool in movies/advertisments for quite a lot of time has a lot to do with it - society works harder to crush the old 'smoking is cool' stereotype because the "fat is cool" one is way more outdated in our culture.

Also, the media are already doing a great work bashing obese people, so perhaps average people think that they don't need any reinforcement.

Also, most average built people have struggled with a little weight gain at one or another point in their life.

It's much easier imo to sympathize with situations we have experienced ourselves in a smaller scale because we got a very little bite of "how it feels" ourselves and it's a tad easier to put ourselves in the other person's shoes.

October 11, 2006

I am so glad to see discussion veering away from "PA is a shallow, egotisitical, Paris Hilton lookalike (yuck), who thinks she is superior to overweight individuals"-

I mentioned some analogies for social behaviour.

I mentioned some health damning health statistics.

I mentioned peoples tendency to ignore the problem for fear of "hurting the feelings of overweight individuals"- (more evidence to this displayed in this thread.)

I never once said anything negative about overweight or obese individuals.

I might point out Ripples that two of the people I admire most in the world are overweight, and I don't even consider myself on the same level as these people let alone superior to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burning 4 revenge There's too much emphasis on health here all of a sudden and not enough on asthetics.

If it had been from the beginning, I'd have no problem with any of this.

It always was about health, and social problems Buttafly.

October 11, 2006

What I never understood was how people get so heavy. I mean an extra 50 pounds I can see going on easily. But how do people eat themselves to 300 lbs?

I never understood it. I mean at some point don't you think enough! I need to lose weight and change my diet.

I got to that point 3 months ago. Due to a variety of reasons I gained 30 lbs. I was already 15 lbs overweight. I said enough! and have lost 15 lbs so far.

I guess I don't get why people don't have that moment and than make changes.

October 11, 2006

just google the following obesity increases health care costs

I don't trust all sources on the internet... So I checked out some articles through LexisNexis at the college..

By Gregory Lopes, THE WASHINGTON TIMES

September 27, 2006 Wednesday

"Technological advances and an aging population are factors causing skyrocketing health care costs that are forcing employers to cut benefits or implement innovative methods to curb costs."

CQ Congressional Testimony

July 13, 2006 Thursday

SECTION: CAPITOL HILL HEARING TESTIMONY

COMMITTEE: SENATE SPECIAL AGING

HOW SENIORS IMPACT HEALTH COST

TESTIMONY-BY: DONALD MARRON, ACTING DIRECTOR

AFFILIATION: BUDGET OFFICE (CBO)

BODY:

Statement of Donald Marron Acting Director, Budget Office (CBO)

Committee on Senate Special Aging

July 13, 2006

"Medicaid spending per enrollee is determined by many of the same factors that continue to push up total U.S. health care costs, and the principal cause of those rising costs is the spreading use of new medical technology."

October 11, 2006

I was too late to edit (and reword a couple of sentences of) my previous post.

I think it is difficult to many people to tell an obese person that they are damaging their own health because they are worried that "you are unhealthy" will be perceived as "you are unattractive" or "you are a loser".

I couldn't bring myself to discuss seriously with my ex bf the fact that he had a weight problem because I was afraid of hurting his feelings.

If you tell a smoker he is hurting himself, you are not really going to affect his/her self esteem or his/her self confidence.

After all this pondering, I'm lighting a cigarette.

October 11, 2006

To address one of the questions here, why is it ok to be rude to smokers and drug addicts, but not fat people.

First, I don't agree that's it is ok to be rude to smokers or anyone else who does things we disapprove of. Rudeness is neither necessary, nor helpful. If your family or loved ones sit you down and tell you what they think -harsh as it may be - that could be helpful. If a stranger glares at you and says you're stupid and nasty for smoking, I know from all my smoking friends that it really does no good. Most of them have stopped smoking when they've gotten married or had kids...they had a damned good reason that mattered to them. Strangers and society's disapproval is rarely effective. Fried eggs and your brain on drugs is a source of amusement for people who take drugs.

Second, I'll disagree that we are not rude to fat people. We are. If you don't think so, think back to grade school when the fat kids were ridiculed constantly. Think back to high school when the fat kids were ostracised and couldn't get a date to the prom, or were made fun of if they showed up in a prom dress. Consider the posts in this thread about online dating and when a woman says she's "zaftig" she must be the size of the Hindenberg. Consider all the marketing and advertising that tells us all that we suck unless we're a size 2. Please. Fat people are bombarded with criticism constantly. If you imagine that's not so, you're living in a sheltered world.

Third, fat does not equal unhealthy and thin or average or the correct weight can also be unhealthy. Take cholesterol, as an example. My parents (in their early 60's) have been eating the exact same meals for decades - the stuff my mother cooks for both of them. They take their lunches to work - stuff my mom prepares for both of them. They grow their own veggies in the back yard. Their fruit expenditures far outweigh any sweets or snacks. Soda is for company. They rarely drink. They both work jobs where they are on their feet all day. They exercise together in the workout room they have in the basement and go for walks together in the neighborhood, weather permitting. My dad, who has never been overweight a day in his life, has high cholesterol. My mom, who has never been able to lose the 30-40 pounds her pregnancies and time have put on her body, has cholesterol well within the normal range. You would tell her to put down her cheeseburger and to get off her lazy ass and exercise, but not my dad, yet he is the one who should avoid the cheese and the burger.

All that is a long way to say, you cannot always look at people and accurately judge their health, and the only thing that being rude accomplishes is to show them that you are a rude person.

Why is it so hard for some people to lose weight? Time does things to your body that act against you. Someone in their 20's will find it a breeze to lose weight, but that same person in their 40's will struggle. Gender makes a difference as well: men find it easier to lose weight than women as women's bodies are designed to store more fat than men to begin with. Various genetic issues play a part as well. If you look at families, you will see a pattern. My sister takes after my dad's side of the family and could sit on her ass all day and eat crap and not gain a pound. I take after my mom's side in body shape and have to watch what I eat and exercise regularly or I gain weight.

Emotional issues and depression affect weight. People don't eat just because they are hungry. They eat because they are sad or angry or depressed or they were dumped or their husband is having an affair or they didn't get asked to the prom.

Another contributing factor is the kinds of foods vs. simple caloric intake. Eat a diet heavy on pasta and carbs, and you're likely to find it harder to lose weight even though your caloric intake might be the same as someone who eats more protein (meat, chicken, fish, dairy) and few carbs. Why? The way your body reacts to sugars and carbs.

Again, all this is a long way to say it's not as simple as eat less and exercise. If we treat it as though it is that simple, nothing will change. Each individual's situation is different; there are no "one size fit all" answers. We do everyone an injustice if we don't recognize that and try to help each person individually, and we do even less if we just spit on them for being fat.

October 11, 2006

I might point out Ripples that two of the people I admire most in the world are overweight, and I don't even consider myself on the same level as these people let alone superior to them.

Well... your answer to the original question posted lies also within this.

Have you ever said anything about their own weight or eating habits to the people that you admire that are overweight ?

If not then why ?? there is part of your answer..

October 11, 2006

Interesting thread.

I like the analogies with smokers - they left me thinking. I didn't know that bashing smokers (who are not smoking where it would be rude to) is acceptable in so many countries.
Perhaps the fact that smoking was portrayed as cool in movies/advertisments for quite a lot of time has a lot to do with it - society works harder to crush the old 'smoking is cool' stereotype because the "fat is cool" one is way more outdated in our culture.
.

being fat is now becoming cool..... look at who is on TV ........ not just a few pounds overweight. But people that are at risk for health related weight disease.

Roseanne and the guy that played her H on that show, oprah was or is heavy, even the nutty professor movie, it keeps saying there is nothing wrong with being overweight. Also I saw a preview for a beauty contest called PHAT. I would say it has become much more acceptable to be very overweight not just curvy like Monroe was.

The majority of the US is on a "I am big and beautiful" kick......but how come they only show thinner people eating the fast food in their commercials?

October 11, 2006

After all this pondering, I'm lighting a cigarette.

I ate some bridge mix and smoked 2 ciggies......... :lmao:

October 11, 2006

What I never understood was how people get so heavy. I mean an extra 50 pounds I can see going on easily. But how do people eat themselves to 300 lbs?

I never understood it. I mean at some point don't you think enough! I need to lose weight and change my diet.

I got to that point 3 months ago. Due to a variety of reasons I gained 30 lbs. I was already 15 lbs overweight. I said enough! and have lost 15 lbs so far.

I guess I don't get why people don't have that moment and than make changes.

Great point. That point is different for different people, what makes someone increase it? I

October 11, 2006

being fat is now becoming cool..... look at who is on TV ........ not just a few pounds overweight. But people that are at risk for health related weight disease.

Roseanne and the guy that played her H on that show, oprah was or is heavy, even the nutty professor movie, it keeps saying there is nothing wrong with being overweight. Also I saw a preview for a beauty contest called PHAT. I would say it has become much more acceptable to be very overweight not just curvy like Monroe was.

The majority of the US is on a "I am big and beautiful" kick......but how come they only show thinner people eating the fast food in their commercials?

I don't get US tv channels (I wish I would!) - here the big and beautiful girls are quite the exception, at least on TV. (I know a few in real life, though)

I remember that the first time I flipped through a copy of (US) Playboy (now many years ago), I found most playmates "overweight to be on a magazine".

October 11, 2006

Hi... don't mean to intrude again... but no one addressed my post regarding the rising cost of health care?

So are we officially linking the increase with obesity? Or can we just say there is no defined link and drop it at this point?

I looked through 400 abstracts. I tried to be bipartisan in my search. But didn't see anything stating Obesity is the cause of increased health care costs. Not one... sorry. Hell of a lot about tabacoo causing costs to increase though.... But a majority stated it was the aging population, ineffective use of resources, and increased cost of new technology.

October 11, 2006

Hi... don't mean to intrude again... but no one addressed my post regarding the rising cost of health care?

So are we officially linking the increase with obesity? Or can we just say there is no defined link and drop it at this point?

I looked through 400 abstracts. I tried to be bipartisan in my search. But didn't see anything stating Obesity is the cause of increased health care costs. Not one... sorry. Hell of a lot about tabacoo causing costs to increase though.... But a majority stated it was the aging population, ineffective use of resources, and increased cost of new technology.

I don't know if there's a link or not.

But people having children increases health care costs quite a bit! Everyone should stop having kids now! I'm tired of my health premiums going up because I'm sharing costs for other people's pregnancies, births, and ongoing sniffles care!

October 11, 2006

Florida Times-Union (Jacksonville)

May 10, 2006 Wednesday

Duval County health officials put out a call to action Tuesday to combat childhood obesity, a problem costing millions of dollars in health care and related costs.

A report by the Duval County Health Department said obesity cost about $357 million in 2003 in health care and other indirect costs. The report offered recommendations to help address the problem, including restricting soda and candy sales in schools and limiting children's television viewing.

Scripps Howard News Service

April 19, 2006, Wednesday 1:32 PM EST

BYLINE: LEE BOWMAN, Scripps Howard News Service

In the United States during a typical year, as many as 1 person in 3 gets injured, more than 2.6 million are hospitalized, and nearly 50 million are hurt badly enough to seek medical attention.

Injuries are responsible for more deaths among children, adolescents and young adults than all other causes combined, and claim the lives of some 150,000 Americans of all ages each year.

Beyond the human toll, there's a financial tally as well. A new report by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention concludes that the lifetime costs of injuries occurring in the United States in a single year exceed $406 billion in medical expenses and productivity losses. Such losses include lost wages and fringe benefits, and the inability to perform household responsibilities.

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