I have had ENOUGH!

[norajane]

------

 

Ariadne

 

If you listen to the song, you hear them talk and laugh throughout the whole thing, almost as if they're sitting around, getting high, and making up the words as they go along. What they say is harsher than any Public Service Announcement you've ever heard but it's all a hilarious joke.

 

And then there's Sublime's "Two Joints":

 

I smoke two joints in the morning

I smoke two joints at night

I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints

It makes me feel all right...

 

 

Yeah, they already know about fried brains. I think the PSA's are supposed to influence children not to take drugs. They don't really change the behavior of people who already do.

[allina]

What's with all these posts on weight anyways? There have been sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many recently. It's getting annoying, just another symptom of the obsession I guess.

[kjl933]

I think the weight charts are way out of whack. Not because I am admittedly a bit overweight, but honestly, I think they say a 6' man with big bones should be at 180# (I am going from memory so please do not flame)

 

PA--your first post said that your post was going to incite--it did! Aren't you supposed to be on an island somewhere?

[norajane]

PA--your first post said that your post was going to incite--it did!

 

Yeah, suggesting that we go around telling "fat f*cks" to put down their cheeseburgers as a public service tends to have that effect.

[PuppyDogEyes]

kjl933: Good to see you back on the boards, m'dear.

 

What's with all these posts on weight anyways? There have been sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many recently. It's getting annoying, just another symptom of the obsession I guess.

 

That and the mass media. Every time I turn around I see yet another 'feature' on losing weight/behavior modification. And yet somehow it's not helping, is it? The world's getting larger, heavier, bigger...

 

Meh. As selfish as it sounds, I really don't care what anyone else does with their bodies - it's theirs to screw up/take care of, isn't it? I'm trying to solve my own damned problems (with weight and otherwise) - i.e., I'm minding my own business. It's not up to me to tell people what to put in their mouths.

 

-pde.

[Ariadne]

Hi,

 

I think the weight charts are way out of whack. Not because I am admittedly a bit overweight, but honestly, I think they say a 6' man with big bones should be at 180#

 

I don't know what year those charts were created.

 

But if you notice the way people looked in the 50's and now, you'll see why the charts are off.

 

Ariadne

[blind_otter]

I see cookies and donuts in offices all the time. Why has this become part of our culture? Little snacks all the time. That's why people are fat.

 

Just some random thoughts.

 

This made me think of the "cake ladies" in the office -- the women who demand cake for every office event. Birthdays. Anniversaries. Going Away. Welcoming. I swear at one office I worked at years ago there was freaking cake every g-d- day. Or donuts, or something equally sugary.

 

And then if you don't eat the cake, they attack you and get in your face. "EAT THE CAKE! You validate my cake eating by eating it! Everyone must eat the cake!"

[dgiirl]

And then if you don't eat the cake, they attack you and get in your face. "EAT THE CAKE! You validate my cake eating by eating it! Everyone must eat the cake!"

 

lol i'm envisioning it now... a clockwork orange scenario... office ladies forcing the mouth of a young new skinny secretary saying "eat it... eaaaaat iiiiiit!!!".

[Yamaha]

Well... your answer to the original question posted lies also within this.

 

Have you ever said anything about their own weight or eating habits to the people that you admire that are overweight ?

 

If not then why ?? there is part of your answer..

 

This is right on target, AC.

 

Well, Pink.

Would you tell these fat people that you admire they are perpetuating a

deadly trend or is it easier to tell strangers to stop with the f***ing cheeseburgers and fries?

[allina]

 

Meh. As selfish as it sounds, I really don't care what anyone else does with their bodies - it's theirs to screw up/take care of, isn't it?

 

I don't think that's selfish, I feel the same way. I can't imagine getting all worked up over a stranger's food choices.

[Buttaflyy]

I don't think that's selfish, I feel the same way. I can't imagine getting all worked up over a stranger's food choices.

 

Ditto on that! And may I add that even if one chooses to get worked up over this, the put downs are never acceptible (only by society as some of the posts in this thread proves)!

[Guest]

Has anyone here had a person they care about die from a weight related disease?

 

Has anyone here had a parent or spouse that could not or cannot participate in family activities because of weight?

 

Ummm. No. My overweight aunt is in her 80s. My skinny uncle died from smoking - as did my dad though both lived quite long. Mom died from breast cancer - of course she used estrogen because the doctors told her to. She also smoked. The inlaws died of alcoholism and due to alcohol-related accidents.

 

I don't either but I do care if we make it socially acceptable to kill ourselves slowly with foods soaking in sugar, salt, and saturated fat.

 

Just like I would care if we decriminalised heroin use and it became okay to watch people shoot up on sidewalks.

If something is proven to kill us, why are their still people not only ignoring it, but advocating it, and defending it.

 

but I do care when it start to cost me more money in taxes to pay for their healthcare, or costs me more money because of insurance and medical care hikes.

 

Then you must be right apoplectic at all the workplace time lost, sick and/or dead kids (from drinking & driving), not to mention the alcohol-related diseases. Then there's the smoking-related diseases weighing down your taxes (light another one up as you ponder it). And oh boy - vehicles! Tens of thousands of people in hospital yearly due to accidents - thousands dead. All that costs the big bucks and has been doing so for much longer than obesity has.

 

I feel so sad - you must hardly be able to breathe from the stress of all these people deliberately 'wasting' your tax dollars. Will you be running out tomorrow to ensure that people are not licensed to drive until they've taken safety courses? Will you design vehicles that won't start if the driver has alcohol in his system? Surely you must be passionate about repairing these horrid wrongs?

 

Or could 'tax dollars' just be an excuse to be discriminatory to a particular group of people that you don't happen to like?

[HokeyReligions]

I haven't read all the posts, but I'll throw in my two cents.

 

Smoking - second-hand smoke does have an effect on others.

 

Eating - there is no second-hand anything that can hurt another.

 

Drinking & drug use - can alter behavior so that people can become dangerous to others or their selves / lack of judgement and reflexes.

 

Eating - other than allergic reactions, or mood-swings that do not affect judgement, can't think of how this effects others -- unless it's eating while driving and having an accident--but that's a different topic.

 

Smoking / drinking / drug-use - all can be stopped. People can live without those. Bodies will shed the addictive toxins.

 

Eating - people can only fast for so long - we need food to live.

 

Tax dollars spent on various illnesses: too silly to comment on - there will always be diseases / conditions (real and perceived) / classifications that will cost all of us tax payers. To single out obesity is and attempt to dictate to others how they should live, what they should eat, what activities they should participate in just rubs me the wrong way. If I want to down an entire box of donuts that is my right and I don't want any self-proclaimed Health Police to tell me differently. If I own a McDonalds and someone wants to buy a dozen egg McMuffins I am not going to tell them no and lose the money. It is their choice - it is my choice. I respect that if I'm smoking the smoke may bother others. But not food and not forced exercise. Nope. Don't buy it.

 

If someone doesn't like fat or obese people - then turn away. Don't want to hire them? Then don't. There are no laws currently stopping anyone. Don't want to see them in a restaurant? Then leave. Don't want to respect them? Don't - no law says you have to. Want to believe that every single person is overweight for the very same reason and all that they have to do is eat the way they are told, the things they are told, when they are told and to exercise exactly as they are told - believe it. They won't lose the same way, some will die, some will become so unhealthy they can't do for themselves, some will lose and be fine. There have been actual studies on this - not just some TV show Biggest Loser where they cherry pick and qualify people.

 

Yes, I have and have had some very large people in my family. I come from a long line of large people. I eat healthier than a lot of lean people. When I was in school I had a friend who was shaped like me and we shared clothes and they fit us pretty much the same way - but she lost 60 pounds and dropped seven dress sizes. I lost 60 pounds and dropped one and a half. I was sickly because I'm just not built to be that size. Lots of people aren't.

 

So discriminate away - people do it about races and gender and religion and personal choices ALL the time - under the same freedom of speech.

[whichwayisup]

Eating - there is no second-hand anything that can hurt another.

Well, physically, none, but if one is married to someone and they have kids, the obesity will eventually affect the whole family, especially if the person who is large, dies of an illness related to their weight...

[dgiirl]

Tax dollars spent on various illnesses: too silly to comment on - there will always be diseases / conditions (real and perceived) / classifications that will cost all of us tax payers. To single out obesity is and attempt to dictate to others how they should live, what they should eat, what activities they should participate in just rubs me the wrong way. If I want to down an entire box of donuts that is my right and I don't want any self-proclaimed Health Police to tell me differently. If I own a McDonalds and someone wants to buy a dozen egg McMuffins I am not going to tell them no and lose the money. It is their choice - it is my choice. I respect that if I'm smoking the smoke may bother others. But not food and not forced exercise. Nope. Don't buy it.

 

There's a difference between a disease that happens naturally, and a preventable disease. In the majority of people, obesity is controlable. Smoking, drugs, and obesity causes diseases that are mostly preventable. And all of these things are a strain on the health system. To tell me that it's your choice to eat donut's all day is no different than to say it's your choice to smoke your lungs away. It's simply selfish and irresponsible. Who cares about your family and friends who love you. Who cares about your life span. Who cares about the costs it will take to take care of you when you get sick. It's all about instant gratification. Me me me.

[a4a]

ok so I hate fat people

 

Think about how family member are indeed affected by an obese parent....

 

I know two obese parents, their 2 sons cannot do things with them because they are too large to do them. Walking through an amusement park is too much for the parents. They actually have the sons "fetch" thing for them because they cannot do it themselves..... so yes obesity does do damage to family members..... it is preventable, it can be cured in the vast majority of cases...... so it is a selfish act for many IMHO.

 

 

I will admit in this particular case it does upset me to see those 2 boys not having the parents they could because they choose to eat eat eat eat. I feel no differently towards them than I would if they drank drank drank booze and could not participate with those boys.

[SmoochieFace]

ok so I hate fat people

 

Think about how family member are indeed affected by an obese parent....

 

I know two obese parents, their 2 sons cannot do things with them because they are too large to do them. Walking through an amusement park is too much for the parents. They actually have the sons "fetch" thing for them because they cannot do it themselves..... so yes obesity does do damage to family members..... it is preventable, it can be cured in the vast majority of cases...... so it is a selfish act for many IMHO.

 

 

I will admit in this particular case it does upset me to see those 2 boys not having the parents they could because they choose to eat eat eat eat. I feel no differently towards them than I would if they drank drank drank booze and could not participate with those boys.

 

What about if they did did did drugs... like snort snort snort coke or smoke smoke smoke reefers?

[hotgurl]

This made me think of the "cake ladies" in the office -- the women who demand cake for every office event. Birthdays. Anniversaries. Going Away. Welcoming. I swear at one office I worked at years ago there was freaking cake every g-d- day. Or donuts, or something equally sugary.

 

And then if you don't eat the cake, they attack you and get in your face. "EAT THE CAKE! You validate my cake eating by eating it! Everyone must eat the cake!"

 

The ladies in my office are like that. It's horrible everyday they bring in junk food and leave it out until it's gone. I have to admit if I make sweets that I want out of my house I always bring it into the office. It's gone in a day.

[Ripples]

I might point out Ripples that two of the people I admire most in the world are overweight, and I don't even consider myself on the same level as these people let alone superior to them.

 

Oh well, in that case, you can belittle, demean and generally slag off anyone you like who's over-weight.

 

[kjl933]

Oh well, in that case, you can belittle, demean and generally slag off anyone you like who's over-weight.

 

 

.......,

[Great Gazoo]

I just thought I would throw this out there.

 

 

 

It has been hypothesized that it is not the weight that causes the physical health symptoms found in the obese. Ciliska (1993a) and Bovey (1994) suggest the physical risks manifested in the obese are a result of the stress, isolation and prejudice that are experienced from living in a fat-phobic society. In support for this contention, Wing, Adams-Campbell, Ukoli, Janney, and Nwankwo (1994) studied and compared African cultures which exhibited increased acceptance of higher levels of fat distribution. She found that there were no significant increases in health risks where obesity was an accepted part of the cultural composition.

 

and

 

 

 

It is assumed that the obese willingly bring their condition on themselves through lack of will power and self control. The discriminatory implications of being overweight are well known and are often accepted as "truths" in western society. Fat oppression, the fear and hatred of fat is so commonplace in Western cultures that it is rendered invisible (MacInnis, 1993). Obesity is seen as a danger sign in moralistic terms that may imply personality faults, weak wills and laziness.

[SmoochieFace]

I just thought I would throw this out there.

 

 

 

It has been hypothesized that it is not the weight that causes the physical health symptoms found in the obese. Ciliska (1993a) and Bovey (1994) suggest the physical risks manifested in the obese are a result of the stress, isolation and prejudice that are experienced from living in a fat-phobic society. In support for this contention, Wing, Adams-Campbell, Ukoli, Janney, and Nwankwo (1994) studied and compared African cultures which exhibited increased acceptance of higher levels of fat distribution. She found that there were no significant increases in health risks where obesity was an accepted part of the cultural composition.

 

and

 

 

 

It is assumed that the obese willingly bring their condition on themselves through lack of will power and self control. The discriminatory implications of being overweight are well known and are often accepted as "truths" in western society. Fat oppression, the fear and hatred of fat is so commonplace in Western cultures that it is rendered invisible (MacInnis, 1993). Obesity is seen as a danger sign in moralistic terms that may imply personality faults, weak wills and laziness.

 

 

Interesting findings. Perhaps our in-house journalist would care to comment on this?

[josie54]

I think the variety of opinions that this thread has inspired just proves how complex the issue of obesity it is. There is no one answer, just as there is no single reason that individuals become obese (and I say "obese" -- I don't think many of us are really talking about the simply pleasantly plump here).

 

However, from my point of view, the issue isn't one of looks--or if it is, on some level, that's personal with me. Not their problem, and if they're happy with it, it's none of my business, period. My obese family members are actually quite attractive at their current weight, not to mention fun and funny people.

 

However, for me, the issue is really one of health and mobility. I completely agree with a4a. When I'm with family members who can't go shopping with me because they can't walk the length of the mall, it makes me sad and it interferes with the number of things we can do together. Those of you who have obese friends and family know what I mean--you can't play sports of any kind with them, you can't walk up and down a mall, you can't go for a walk around the block, you can't go to a museum, etc., because they get too winded or pained. We wanted to plan a trip to Paris, but couldn't go because one of our family members wouldn't have been able to stand the walking that would be required.

 

Then, you try to be helpful, saying, "Just walk for five minutes with me," thinking that if you could just walk with them for five minutes every other day, that maybe that effort would pay off. But no, they won't do it. Now they feel as if you're pushing them to be something they're not, and if you mention a walk more than once, they get mad at you.

 

So, you fall back on the old, "They have to want to do it for themselves" mantra, and you wait, concerned that any moment, they will die of a heart attack or stroke (one of my family members has already had SEVERAL small strokes, which affect her memory), and knowing that if they could just shed 20 or 30 pounds, their backs wouldn't hurt as much, their knee pain would subside, their stamina would improve, and of course, their health problems would decrease immensely.

 

Whether the obesity is the result of physical, emotional, or self-control issues, it DOES affect others in myriad, sometimes intangible ways. It's a quality of life issue, at the base of it, for many people.

 

I thought the comparison to overweight people in African tribes was quite interesting, but I'd also be interested to hear the lifestyles they promote and just how overweight overweight gets over there. If they're healthy, happy, and mobile, that's wonderful. And maybe it's true that perhaps my trying to convince my family members to lose weight may itself be contributing to their weight gain, because it sends a message that I don't accept them as they are--again, it's interesting. But I can't begin to unravel the cause-and-effects here. All I know is that they're sick, unhappy, and killing themselves at this moment.

[dgiirl]

However, for me, the issue is really one of health and mobility. I completely agree with a4a. When I'm with family members who can't go shopping with me because they can't walk the length of the mall, it makes me sad and it interferes with the number of things we can do together. Those of you who have obese friends and family know what I mean--you can't play sports of any kind with them, you can't walk up and down a mall, you can't go for a walk around the block, you can't go to a museum, etc., because they get too winded or pained. We wanted to plan a trip to Paris, but couldn't go because one of our family members wouldn't have been able to stand the walking that would be required.

 

This sounds exactly like my father. Except my father's a smoker and now has emphysema. He cannot walk around a block without being out of breath. He constantly needs to stop and rest. And when he does, he lights up another cigarette. He calls it "fresh air". Yeah, it was his right to smoke. Noone has the right to tell him what he can do with his life. Sadly it does affect others beside him. He's only in his 60's and yet I fear he doesnt have more than 10 years left. I fear he wont be around if/when I have children. It hurts and makes me really sad. I know it's hard to quit something your addicted to. I sympathize with him, and recently he is trying to make changes which I'm proud about. But he still smokes, and he doesnt believe that any changes he makes will improve anything, so he continues to smoke.

[crazy_grl]

One thing that struck me while reading this thread is that I don't think hating the social climate which leads people to be overweight means a person hates obese people. You can hate the cultural values that lead women to believe they have to be blond, super skinny, big breasted, and perfect, but that doesn't mean you hate every woman who looks like that. (Of course, I'm sure some people do.)

 

It's not the fault of the woman who gets plastic surgery and diets like mad that she sees those kinds of women plastered everywhere and realizes that there are a lot of advantages to looking 'perfect'. Just like it's not the overweight person's fault that fattening, unhealthy food is readily available, well marketed, tastes good makes them feel (temporarily) better, etc.

 

What is the woman's fault is that she bought into the image society presented her with. The obese person is at fault for not choosing to eat better, exercise more, get treatment for the depression that causes them to eat, etc. (Even people with medical conditions that cause them to be heavy don't get morbidly obese without some fault of their own.)

 

Yet, it seems more socially acceptable to bash the skinny blond with implants than it is to do that to a heavy person. Self-esteem problems, depression, and other issues are not limited to the overweight. Both have feelings and neither should be treated that way.

 

Just some random thoughts.