Can't really Talk to My Wife . . .Looking for Folks to talk with

[wantedbetter]

so, as I was saying, unless there's something physically wrong with a guy . . . .he's going to WANT you sexually without a whole lot of work on your part. I'm in my 40's and I feel the same way sexually toward my wife as I did in my 20's. Probably more so now, because I wasn't turned away as often in my 20's and early 30's.

 

Let me use some female terms here . . . .have you ever had BAD chocolate? No . . . .of course not! There's no such thing! Now there is some chocolate that has REALLY curled your toes . . . .so to speak. You'd like to have THAT chocolate as much as possible. You won't turn the other chocolate down, but you CRAVE the toe-curling kind.

 

That's kinda how it is with men and love making. We get excited just seeing you walk in the room in sweats, if you're available to us, willing to try and get into it with us . . . . .that's chocolate. You come in the room in garters/thigh hi's, high heels and a thong . . . . .and sit on our laps and put your tongues in our mouths and your hand in our crotches and let us know how badly you want, no, need us . . . . . that's toe curling chocolate.

 

Should a man feel he has some work to do in getting YOU in the mood . . . .other than just doing his husbandly, fatherly, handy-manly things? Absolutely he should!!! But doing those things: be they showing affection, back-rubs, foot-rubs or spending ALOT of time in fore-play with oral, or toys, or whatever to help YOU with YOUR "O" . . . . .a guy HAS TO be willing to do those things, or else he isn't his wife's LOVER. I consider doing those things for my wife to be the things that truly make me her husband, vs being any other guy, a room-mate, if you will. I relish doing them. Those things are what make me feel truly alive and connected to her.

 

Does that make sense?

 

WB

[Walk]

I'm working on a hypothesis, which could be completely wrong. I'm still in the "pondering" stage... so take this with a huge grain of salt.

 

What if a portion of the problem is that sex is TOO available. There's no chase, no.. uhm... potential for not getting it. For instance, all she has to do is say "ok" and Bam, it's there. There's no anticipation for what may come because there's no fear of not getting it. kind of like those times when you open the fridge, see it stocked full of food, and there's nothing you want in there. But those times your hungry and look in there, even the slightly green lasagna in the tupperware container starts to look good.

 

Not saying you're moldy lasagna... Maybe that wasn't a good analogy.

 

What do you guys think? Totally off base? Or sound plausible? What makes someone excited about sex? What causes them to think about it?

 

I noticed that when I was married, I wanted sex when my hubby wasn't around. But it seemed like when he got home and started making sexual advances toward me, then sex was the furthest from my mind.

 

Now I'm in the reverse situation.. can't seem to get my guy excited to save my life... and I want it all the time. I get shot down so often it's not funny. Except, men are far more evil because then they look at other women, or porn. Anyway... what makes sex exciting? What causes another person to think about it? Its pleasurable, but if you could have chocolate every minute of the day... do you crave chocolate? It's still good when you eat it.. but would you go out of your way for it? Probably not. Why do men look at other women? Maybe because they're out of reach, an expectation they they may/may nto be able to have that woman? Exciting because they don't have it? And how could a person recapture that in the mind of their SO without flat out refusing them sex?

 

This is just a hypothesis... I'm still tweeking it, so feel free to blow it out of the water.

 

I am so irritated right now with men! I'm friggin' horny and I got shot down, and then he shows me the postcard from playboy advertizing subscriptions with barely clad women on it. Maybe that's what I need. A subscription to playgirl.

[wantedbetter]

I think I know what you're getting at. A guy in MY situation would find it hard to believe that it could even occur.

 

Case in point, I last tried the "internet - community forum" a few years ago right after I had come within the "skin of my teeth" of having a physical/ sexual affair with one of those women I mentioned earlier in this thread. We had gotten to know each other over the course of this class we had taken together and it's just natural that when you feel friendly toward someone, you'll tell them about your pain . . . .and my pain revolved around the lack of physical inimacy in my marriage. By the end of the class, she was one of those women that had "seen the light" on men/husbands and sexuality and had taken it upon herself to go from a once every few weeks kind of gal to 3/4 times a week wife and she was just floored by the change in her husband.

 

I don't know if it was out of gratitude to listening to me for all those months, but she ultimately said she couldn't take knowing that a "guy like me" was suffering in a non-intimate marriage and she offered herself to me. She picked the night that her husband would be visiting with his parents and let me know that with one email for me she would be at a nearby hotel waiting for me.

 

I typed that email 50 times and canceled it 50 times, ultimately not sending it. I saw her some weeks later, she grabbed my hand and said she was sorry for tempting me but that it wasn't "right" for me to go through what I was going through and she let me know that her offer stood if that day ever came.

 

I broke off all communication with that woman hand haven't spoken to her in any way in about three years now.

 

Anyway, what hurt the most with all that was that I ahd lost a friend with which to talk. When you carry around so much pain, you HAVE to talk to someone, or you'll just go crazy. So I tried the "Marriage Builders" forum for a long time and there ARE some super people on that site and you DO learn some insightful things, but there is a STRONG under-current of male bashing on there when it comes to the "sexual need" . (See Dr. Harley . . .who founded Marriage Builders. . . . .ultimately defines all marital conflict as coming from a spouse not meeting their spouses' need in 10 areas . . .one of them being the sex area) In all the other 9 areas, pretty much, if someone came to the board talking about their spouse not meeting a need, that person got ALOT of sympaty/empathy and understanding and got alot of coping techniques on how to try to get their spouse to begin to meet their need in that area.

 

If a MAN came on, talking about how his wife was non-sexual it was pretty much "What are YOU doing to her to make her so?" or "Maybe if YOU weren't so addicted to SEX, she would feel like she has to be your WHORE to pleas

[wantedbetter]

. .to pleae you" It got tiresome after awhile of hearing how our intimacy problem was ALL my fault. And they pretty much did it to EVERY guy on there. Please don't get me wrong . . . . there are innumerable men out there that are truly the cause of their sexual woes with how they treat their wives. When we've gone to counseling my wife has said, "I resent him when he keeps saying "no" to me with the things I want do do around the house." When I explain our financial situation to the counselor, he/she will eventually say, "look, he can't print it off in the basement . . . ." and around then my wife will leave the counseling.

 

So while I'm sure she's try to describe to anyone who'll listen just to how horrible I am and shouldn't be suprised that she not "in the mood" more often living with such a shmuck . . . .just a quick examination of the facts exposes her lines as not really having much validity.

 

Ok, now to finally come full circle to you situation Walk. On the other board, there actually were men writing in to complain about their sexual needs because their wives wouldn't "do it" seven times a week. or they wanted "it" three times a day on Saturdays and Sundays!!!!!!! Some guys would complain that they were "unfulfilled because their wives wouldn't dress up like cheer-leaders, or school girls!!!!!!! One guy actaully said he was honestly considering an affair because his wife wouldn't let him have anal sex with her !!!!!!!!

 

Point being ,there are, evidently, plenty of idiotic men who don't know just how good they have it. It's probably a common trait of us humans to the point where they'll put lines in songs like "You know what you got till it's gone"

 

There IS probably something to the fact of how available you are to your man that makes him feel pretty "ok" in turning you down. I know, I want to grab him and shake him and yell, "You friggin' idiot! Wake up before it's too late!! How'd you like to spend a month, a year, in MY shoes!!!"

 

Shoot, Walk, print out my response and show it to him!!! Maybe he'll see what an absolute blessing it is to be with a woman who wants to be an enthusiatic and FREQUENT lover . . . . . .'cause there are sure plenty of guys out here who'd give ten years off their lives to have just such a situation.

 

While it always pains me to write this when it's going to impact a fellow member of my gender. If there's ANYWAY you could try and (gulp, here it goes . . .) turn him down next time he asks, you could see if that tips the "balance of power" in your favor.

 

People have suggested this tactic to me, but with the demon testosterone, I simply don't have the will power. After about four/five weeks of not asking her/begging her . . . .I see that she's just fine with that status quo, and I break down and begin asking/begging again.

 

I wish I wasn't wired this way . . . .but I am. I have a real need for physical intimacy and I can't turn it off, as much as I wish I could.

 

WB

[Walk]

He's alot like your wife, I guess. I don't think I'd have a chance to actually turn him down for about 4 or five months from now. haha..

 

Maybe if we taped money to our genitals. hahaha Oh oh.. I got it.. Just get a tattoo of a $100 bill on your.. never mind, that would hurt.

[TheDiva]

Maybe if we taped money to our genitals. hahaha Oh oh.. I got it.. Just get a tattoo of a $100 bill on your.. never mind, that would hurt.

 

 

Ya know, I actually know a guy that did that!

Said he was tired of the wife asking for money and not having sex. So next when she asked for money he was gonna whip it out and say "Here is a hundred dollar bill go blow it." He walked really funny for a while though...

 

Hey its worth a shot.{Pun intended} Except from reading the thread WB may have to use a one million dollar bill.

[honeybunch2k5]

WB, after reading your posts I don't think I'll ever forego sex with my husband for extended periods of time (that's if I ever get married). This seems to be really hurting you, and I'm sure a lot of other guys are feeling your pain. I kind of suspected that men want to have sex with their wives so they can make the woman happy(i.e. bringing on the big o) not cuz their sex crazed jerks.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

WantingBetter and Hard2Think,

 

I like you guys (from what I've read in your posts), I really do.

 

If you don't mind my asking, how often are you having sex for the past year?

 

I have sex with my husband of 10 years (he's my first in everything) at a rate of 2 to 5 times/week. He only needs 2 times, and I need more.

 

Anyway, after reading your posts... I think that there must be a joke here somewhere. How did we end up with such mismatched spouses???

 

Recently, I started an affair with my H's friend... and I let my H know that I am attracted to his friend. (We've not had sex yet, however.) Well, that did boost his sex drive for me. He is also more willing to make changes (eg. attend marriage counseling with me).

 

Sex is important. But I can see why some women would attack you for complaining about the lack of sex in your marriage. First, sex means different things to different people. Some people view sex as just intercourse - probably in the missionary position even; while there are those who view the passionate love making as sex (ie. your toe curling chocolate). Nobody likes the plain intercourse. Period.

 

So, may I suggest that when you ask your W for sex the next time, use the following words in your request/innuendo: wet, dripping, sweet, honey, like peach, dessert, silk, warm, hot,... you get the idea.

 

DO NOT use these words: let's, have, sex,...

 

I love to have my nipple lightly bitten. But my H will not do this. he just has no clue that I want it, and he doesn't like to be told how to pleasure me. Idiot!

[wantedbetter]

Honeybunch,

 

If I saved even one man's love life. . . . . .it's been worth it!!!!!

 

Ok, enough fake dramatics. I truly hope if you do get married, that you get married to a guy like me (and I say that 'cause I think I'm the norm) who looks at a satisfying love life with his partner as one of the primary things that makes life worth living . . . . .and that you NEVER forget what you read here.

 

Your sexuality is a gift. . . . but it's a gift you GAVE to your husband on your wedding day. It's NOT a weapon to use to punish him with, or to hurt him with if he occasionally screws up. Because we ALL screw up.

 

KnowHowLoveFeels,

 

Reading your post I KNOW that not all is lost in your marriage, so please, like me, get away from your "friendship" with this other man. I know I had an Emotional Affair with the woman I described in my post. . . . . .and that was bad enough. I guess with the weird emphasis some folks put on sex (that is, "sex IS NOT important when I with-hold it from you . . . .but it becomes bigger than life itself if you go get it from someone else!!!" I know, incredibly strange . . . .but there you have it!!) please, please, in case your husband is one of these types . . . .end your relationship with this "friend" now.

 

God must be laughing at us down here with our mis-matched libidos and who we get married to . . .I agree!

 

I kept track on a calender in 2005 and my wife and I made love 14 times. I asked her what she thought and she said, "oh we average once a week" then I showed her the calender. After being super pissed that I could be so "shallow" as to keep track . . .she told me I was "making it up" I was not.

 

WB

 

PS I never phrase my asking for love-making in the words: "Let's have sex . . . .let's go do it. . . . .let's knock boots. . . . . let's bump uglies . . . I always use much more romantic words . . . .like "you wanna make $50 bucks the hard way?" . . . . . .KIDDING!!!!!! ( I couldn't resist!)

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

 

I kept track on a calender in 2005 and my wife and I made love 14 times. I asked her what she thought and she said, "oh we average once a week" then I showed her the calender. After being super pissed that I could be so "shallow" as to keep track . . .she told me I was "making it up" I was not.

 

Man... that's not fair to you! (Sorry, but I am angry at your W, now. :mad: ) Would she be open to MC again? You guys need to talk.

 

 

I never phrase my asking for love-making in the words: "Let's have sex . . . .let's go do it. . . . .let's knock boots. . . . . let's bump uglies . . . I always use much more romantic words . . . .like "you wanna make $50 bucks the hard way?" . . . . . .KIDDING!!!!!! ( I couldn't resist!)

 

Actually, my H have use all the above - including offering me money for sex. I wish he'd be a little more creative in that department.

[honeybunch2k5]

Honeybunch,

 

I kept track on a calender in 2005 and my wife and I made love 14 times. I asked her what she thought and she said, "oh we average once a week" then I showed her the calender. After being super pissed that I could be so "shallow" as to keep track . . .she told me I was "making it up" I was not.

 

WB

 

! ( I couldn't resist!)

You poor guy! How do you live? I doubt your wife would like it if she went shopping only 14 times a year.

[Walk]

I just wanted to say...

 

I kept track of the number of times my bf and I had sex for 3 months... when I showed it to him, he was pissed too. I thought he'd be happy I cared enough to keep track, since I'm kind of like your wife... I think it's been two days ago.. and it was two weeks ago. So I kept track so I wouldn't lose track.

 

He was upset. Said it took something sacred and made it just a number. Reduced it to a check mark on a task list. Nothing more than.. Milk.. check.. bread.. check.. sex.. check.. ok. all obligations met.

 

He felt it turned it into an obligation. Not the loving, sharing of your partner because you love and want them.

 

So maybe this is the same feeling your wife felt at the time. That she was reduced to a number? Her value was determined by the amount you were able to check off on a calendar? So instead of discussing how you two could grow closer, she felt like more of an object and pushed you away by getting angry.

 

Not that you meant it that way, but she may have felt that way.

 

Just a thought....

[Guest]

Have you considered the problem may be hers and not to do with your income, attractiveness, etc.? I am in a similar situation. I've been married for 13 years and I admit to avoiding sex. We've probably had sex less than you in 2005. I am definitely not witholding for any manipulative purpose. My husband is gorgeous, makes a ton of money and is a wonderful person. So why don't I want to make love to him very often? I think it is because my age and being a mother of 3 can drain you physically and emotionally.

 

I am 42, and probably having hormonal changes to some extent (You haven't mentioned your wife's age) I usually don't sleep well. I have lower back problems, etc. I can't blame him for my low libido. He's not happy about the situation at all. He is still very attracted to me as well, but at 10:00pm after a long day of being mommy'd to death, physical affection becomes a chore on the list with laundry and the other million things left to do. I'm not saying it's right or fair, but it's a fact. Men just jump into bed with hairy legs and all and they are ready to go. We have to shave, shower, smell right, not look fat etc. There's a lot more effort and it's easier to just go to sleep.

 

To be honest, I'm surprised he hasn't left me yet. Fortunately we have a freindship that is strong enough to endure the lack of physical intimacy, which I am guessing is why you stay with your wife. Not to say we don't fight because we do all the time. More like I do...and he withdraws and avoids me. I guess I just wanted to give you the perspective of someone on this side to help you understand because I feel that it could help somehow. Your wife seems to have an obsession with shopping/money. If it is a true problem then she may need help. Some people feel inferior if they can't show material wealth. I know my husband is this way and I never quite got it.

 

Now we racked up some nasty debt., but I like to drive a nice car so what the heck. No offense, but you seem preoccupied with the money thing as well in the other direction. You shouldn't have to prove anything to anyone. If you love eachother then it doesn't matter who makes what. Maybe you should take the focus off of it and just plan a sensible budget together. We did this and it sure stopped me from overspending. (I could drop a couple of hundred at the lancome counter, but when faced with reality I had to really ask myself "do i need this?") Back to the sex thing: I read the other posts and it sounds like there is some good advice, but here's more that might not have been suggested yet:

 

1. Make a batch of coconut martinis (there's something about mixing those rums!)

2. Just come right out and say suck my _ _ _ _! bitch! (that worked once)

3. He actually made up this sex with my back thing (I get a back rub he gets off! everyone is happy!)

4. Turn out the light and tell her you Orlando Bloom J/K

There are also some misconceptions on what women want that many men (and some women)believe to be true. Here is the real truth:

1.We don't want you to keep going all night. If it took a few minutes we'd be more willing more often.

2. You don't have to pretend there's a camera crew and your in a porno movie. It's kind of a turn off to be with Mr. Macho.

3. No one likes their _ _ _ _ sucked. (At least none of my friends. Nipples are more than okay!)

 

 

Good luck and I hope you get some!

[dignity]

You and your wife should both read "His Needs, Her Needs" by Willard F. Harley, Jr. You would be surprised at what this book could do for your marriage. You read it, then tell her all you ask of her is that she read it too. I promise you will not regret it. It's not a magic cure all, but it definitly will get the ball rolling on the right track. You have nothing to lose.

[RecordProducer]

I think she'd be happy with $5,000 - $10,000 a month. I CANNOT do that and not go bankrupt

What's wrong with her working to make up for her $40k that she could spend on shopping? Sorry, but your wife sounds too much like the jokes about wives - gotta have a fat wallet and she dosn't give you sex unless you pay a lot for it.

 

I would gladly hear HER side of the story. I think you're losing a lot by making self-diagnosis about your marriage. She must have other needs than $5-10k a month. She must be missing something in her life too.

 

In any case either your marriage or your perception of your marriage sounds terrible.

 

So you want to just have friends to talk to? But you got kicked for mentioning the word SEX, huh?

 

You came here to get approval for cheating, didn't you?

[wantedbetter]

Ok . . . replies to all:

 

Walk . . .definitions of "sacred" vary from person to person. Sounds like our significant others view "sacred" as something so special that you only engage in it once in a great while. But if you do love someone and by being in the relationship imply that you CARE about your SO's needs as your SO defines them (and it sound like WE define them as something we want to be willing an

[wantedbetter]

We define our need in this area as something we need our SO's to be willing, enthusiastic (and here's the tough part) FREQUENT partner's in. . . . then it's reasonable to think that they should be willing to try and meet that need for us. . . . .just as we try to meet their needs as they defined them.

 

Guest: thanks for your perspective. You sound light years ahead of my wife in this area in that you are willing to acknowledge that you BOTH have a problem in this marriage DEFINING area. As you can see by my response to Walk above (and kinda throughout this thread) we men really want to debunk this theory ladies have about us a "mind-readers". If my wife tells a counselor that they main reason she's not more physically loving towards me is massive resentment that I can't fork over more $ for super-projects around our already very nice, very new home . . . .then frankly I believe her and I'd go to work on that issue to try and meet her need as she defined it in the hope that she'll feel like meeting MY need. Now we've been married for over twenty years, and I know her up-bringing so I know her issues are deeper than that . . . .I just don't know how to solve them 'cause I simply can't make anymore money.

 

My wife buries herself in home projects much like an alcoholic buries himself in booze, or a drug addict in drugs. Doing so allows the person to escape from the real issues they have like painful childhoods. Her older brother uses work-aholism to mask his pain and only when his wife moved out did he commit to the process of trying to get some help. My wife and her sister LAUGH at their brother as being weak, stating they have life they way they like it . . .when in fact, both women are depressed and have VERY unhappy spouses. But they still emmerse themselves in the home-improvement projects. Unfortunately, in comparison, my sister-in-law's husband's salary makes mine look like I earn minimum wage, so there's no issue there. Now, I hear, her husband get intimacy LESS than I do, but I guess he's super-fine with that . . .so there's no "problems" so to speak.

 

My wife is 41 and the child-rearing issues you mention are VERY real. I believe I mentioned in the thread about the things I do to try and alleviate her stress from the children. I'm VERY involved with the kids at night and usually bring dinner home with me. She gets pretty much all day Saturday to herself to go shop while I do things with the kids. You see, every area she's complained about as to why she's "not in the mood" I've re-doubled my efforts to give her no reason to complain or to not be in the mood.

 

And as I said before, I'm not asking her to change the oil in my car, I'm asking her to come to bed with me so I can do my best to give her a great deal of physical pleasure . . . . .how/why does that sound like a bad deal?

 

Dignity: you should be reading "His Needs/Her Needs" ALL over my previous posts. I even mention being on the Marriage Builder's site for a year or so. Here's what I posted earlier: [I]"So I tried the "Marriage Builders" forum for a long time and there ARE some super people on that site and you DO learn some insightful things, but there is a STRONG under-current of male bashing on there when it comes to the "sexual need" . (See Dr. Harley . . .who founded Marriage Builders. . . . .ultimately defines all marital conflict as coming from a spouse not meeting their spouses' need in 10 areas . . .one of them being the sex area) In all the other 9 areas, pretty much, if someone came to the board talking about their spouse not meeting a need, that person got ALOT of sympaty/empathy and understanding and got alot of coping techniques on how to try to get their spouse to begin to meet their need in that area.

 

If a MAN came on, talking about how his wife was non-sexual it was pretty much "What are YOU doing to her to make her so?" or "Maybe if YOU weren't so addicted to SEX, she would feel like she has to be your WHORE to please you. It got tiresome after awhile of hearing how our intimacy problem was ALL my fault. And they pretty much did it to EVERY guy on there. Please don't get me wrong . . . . there are innumerable men out there that are truly the cause of their sexual woes with how they treat their wives. When we've gone to counseling my wife has said, "I resent him when he keeps saying "no" to me with the things I want do do around the house." When I explain our financial situation to the counselor, he/she will eventually say, "look, he can't print it off in the basement . . . ." and around then my wife will leave the counseling."[/i]

 

And the other key to Marriage Builder . . . .BOTH spouses have to acknowledge that there IS a problem and that by one spouse having a problem . . . .the marraige has a problem. And BOTH spouses must possess the emotional maturity to be willing to admit that THEY may have have had some responsibility in causing the issue in the first place.

 

RecordProducer: Sorry . . . . .don't get your post. My wife COULD work more to make up that money . . . .you're right. I don't think she wants to do that. She wants me to make the money so she'll have the free time to sit with the interior decorating consultants that come to your house during normal working hours. If she worked more, she'd have no time for that.

 

You also need to read ALL my threads to get a "true-reading" on your cheating comments. Those were they most confusing to me. You must have missed my plea to one poster who admitted she was having an affair on her husband to stop because of the pain it will cause him. You also must have missed the one where I talk about wanting to be on boards like this to avoid talking with "real-live" people where one might turn out to be a woman, where temption could build . . . .as it did once, and upon getting the offer to physically cheat on my wife . . . .I broke off all contact with that woman. Please go back and look at those posts in their contexts so we can dispense with these weird accusations that I'm looking for permission to "cheat". I can only figure you missed those posts of mine for you to come to such a strange conclusion.

[Ripples]

WB, what is it you want from this forum? Are you trying to find a way to get your wife to accept she has issues and face them, because you haven't yet? Are you trying to find a way to live without intimacy with your wife? What is it exactly that you're looking for?

[onmyownagain]

I wonder how many wives are like this. Perhaps most marriages reach a point where the wife stops wanting to make love to her man, at least for a while, I have been in this position with my wife over the years (okay at the moment).

 

It is strange, when a group of guys meet for a drink with a guy who is going to get married soon, we all tell him once he ties the knot he wont be getting any more, but I guess all men think it wont happen to them.

[wantedbetter]

Ripples,

 

As my thread title says . . . .I'm just looking for some people to talk with.

 

I'm very open if people have some suggestions of some things I might try. After ten years of living this way, I'm not expecting anyone to say " If you just do . . . . . . (fill in the blank) ALL your problems will be solved!"

 

I just feel better about life if I feel that there are people out there who'll read my posts and write back and say, "I understand" or "I'm right there with you" . I really like people telling me their stories as well. I LOVE hearing from a spouse ( or future spouse) who'll write back and say "Wow. I never knew denying sexual intimacy could cause I guy such pain! I'll never do that to my husband/wife" And that HAS HAPPENED on this thread!!

 

It's sad to come home each night and after the busy-ness of getting the kids ready for bed and for school the next day and when you finally have a chance to talk to your spouse about something real/meaningful all you have is a bunch of clothes/home improvement catalogs lined up with "stickies" on them and a woman saying, "When do you think we can afford this?"

 

That sucks and it feels better to type on this board . . . . .frankly about ANYTHING.

 

Really, that's all I'm looking for.

 

WB

[Walk]

I wonder how many wives are like this. Perhaps most marriages reach a point where the wife stops wanting to make love to her man, at least for a while,

 

It is strange, when a group of guys meet for a drink with a guy who is going to get married soon, we all tell him once he ties the knot he wont be getting any more

 

Not that you don't have a valid point, but frankly... it's not as if women sit around thinking.. "Ok, at the two year mark, pull away the sex and watch him squirm."

 

You aren't a victim, and this isn't a conspiracy. Its two individuals who live together. You make it sound like women are evil with the doomsday, prophetic way you talk about "once he ties the knot he won't be getting any more.."

 

There's a joke among women too.. once we tie the knot, our husbands turn into couch potato's who don't even know we exist except when they want sex...

 

There's a grain of truth in both sterotypes... but neither is completely right.

 

I think you're focusing on only a very tiny part of the picture.

[Ripples]

WB, I guess I wanted to clarify that for myself. Thank you.

 

So would it be fair to say that until your wife recognises she has issues and starts to address them, you will live this way until you're in a position to move on?

[wantedbetter]

Ripples,

 

That's about right. I think once you have children the basic dynamics of your marriage changes. I know you could find studies to back up either position but I believe children are irreparably harmed by divorce. My desire for a loving relationship with a woman where that love is demonstrated by mutual enthusiastic and relatively frequent physical intimacy is secondary to my desire to see my children grow up happy.

 

I'm also realistic. When my youngest is 18 I'll be in my mid fifties and I just don't think there will be alot of opportunities to start over again with another woman where I could have a chance at that kind of loving relationship.

 

It's ok. I think God will judge me better for having been a good father than someone who was willing to let them suffer so I could maybe try and find a woman who liked making love.

 

Walk . . . you're very right again. But being at the age where I have plenty of friends now going through divorce it's funny ( in a very SAD way) the number of men who are swearing during their conversations with other men that they WILL NOT marry again, and a primary reason they state is, "Why bust my a$$ for another woman for a chance that maybe, if the planets align just right, she might, every once and awhile, feel like making love with me?"

 

I hear this almost too often to call it coincidental.

 

WB

[Ripples]

WB, my partner is 50 in a few weeks, we've been together for four years. Age doesn't have to be a problem. Infact, I tend to think that the older you get the more likely you are to be able to sustain a happy relationship. I know I'm far more tolerant than I was at 20, 25, 30. So, maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Oh, and about those friends of yours? It could be a knee jerk reaction. I've heard it too, from my female friends also. How about those friends of yours that have happy relationships after a divorce?

 

[Walk]

It's ok. I think God will judge me better for having been a good father than someone who was willing to let them suffer so I could maybe try and find a woman who liked making love.

 

Walk . . . you're very right again. But being at the age where I have plenty of friends now going through divorce it's funny ( in a very SAD way) the number of men who are swearing during their conversations with other men that they WILL NOT marry again, and a primary reason they state is, "Why bust my a$$ for another woman for a chance that maybe, if the planets align just right, she might, every once and awhile, feel like making love with me?"

 

I hear this almost too often to call it coincidental.

First.. wanted to say that I really admire your dedication to your children and your marriage. If my dad had divorced my mom and the sole reason had been lack of sex... hmm... I think it would've just re-enforced my belief that men only wanted women for one thing. a hole. This is probably twisted logic, but it's shoved down my throat by media and men so often that it's hard to ignore.

 

Also, I know my parents had terrible problems when I was young. Huge fights, etc... My dad walked out during thanksgiving dinner one year and we didn't see him for a couple days. Have no idea why, but they weren't the.. uh... happiest at the time. This was while my brother and I were young.. from 4 through about 14. But they are so happy together since my brother and I left the house. They are very.. uh.. sexual now. Making sexual comments and innuendo's to each other, etc... Lot of things I'd rather not hear my parents say. But they weren't that way when we were young. And that's not because I wasn't aware of those things at the time.. I was aware, it just wasn't there.

 

Anyway... Just because right now isn't the happiest period of your life, doesn't mean it will always be this way. Especially if you continue to keep trying to make it better. Maybe that's naive of me to say.. but there seems to be a philosophy now adays that if you just keep looking for a new person, then you'll find someone who is almost perfect for you. It's like people get caught in this mindset that there's always greener pasture out there. And maybe it's just my screwed up head, but although a new partner might be better in some areas, there are ALWAYS going to be areas that create problems in some way. My current bf is wonderful in a lot of ways. Ways that I had only wished my exH could be. Yet, my bf comes with problems too. Things I never had a problem with my ex's before. I traded one set of problems for another... not necessarily better, not worse. Just different. So people can say there are greener pastures... but... maybe it'd be more rewarding to create your own pasture rather than chase after the illusion of others. That's all it is really.. an illusion out there of something better. But it's not attainable unless it's worked for. And if you're going to have to work for it no matter what, then why not work for it in the pasture you have, with a wife you do love?

 

Like I said... probably my naivete shinning through....