Can't really Talk to My Wife . . .Looking for Folks to talk with

[Hard2Think]

I know I came late to this thread, but DAMN it has a familiar ring to it. I make nearly twice what you do and my wife used to yell at me because I just wasn't bringing in enough money. Even I had to laugh at that (after a while, of course).

 

Now that I read threads in these boards and some other ones, I see that the denial of sex by the wife is a more common occurence that I would have imagined. I went through it for years and it's devastating. The problem is that there is no label or specific event to point to. It just becomes a regular pattern and the wife just can't/won't see it as a serious problem.

 

I had tried to discuss it with the wife at length - all to no avail. I tried all the advice in the relationship books and the flowers, and the trips, and the cruises, and the housework, and all that BS. None if it made a single bit of difference. To this day - I still don't know what the problem is.

 

In my case, I wound up having an affair. I know it was morally wrong, but it fulfilled a need that was unmet for over eight years. I spent the better part of my thirties having infrequent an very poor sex and little affection. I knew I wasn't ready to do the same for my forties.

 

Once the affair was out in the open - my wife suddenly thought sex was important and how could I betray her. And trust me when I tell you that your affair will be the focus of the wrongs in the marriage - not the neglect and verbal abuse that went on before that.

 

I really don't know what the solution is at all. I haven't read anything that would help. It the end it appears that it really does take two to have a happy marriage - one can't carry it too far for both.

[Walk]

I had tried to discuss it with the wife at length - all to no avail. I tried all the advice in the relationship books and the flowers, and the trips, and the cruises, and the housework, and all that BS. None if it made a single bit of difference. To this day - I still don't know what the problem is.

 

Are you still married?

 

I absolutely hate those glib remarks of "Oh, just buy her more... " flowers, jewelry, vacations, fill in the blank. What a load of horse pooey!!!!!!

 

So I feel like a walking vagina, and now I'm purchased for use. Ha ahaahaahahhaha A man would have to have one seriously materialistic woman to have that one work. Why do people even advise this? Has it EVER worked? I could see if it were a matter of things were going okay, but maybe instead of 3 times that week, you'd like sex 5 times. Yeah, then go for the flowers/vacation thing... But no sex at all.. and some generic gift shop flowers are going to suddenly bring back a sex goddess. Whatever.

 

Maybe we should start a retreat for women? Men would protray it to their wives as a luxury spa vacation that he's pre-paid for her... but when she gets there.. it's a week long 24/7 intensive therapy program to increase her ability to communicate her needs in ways men understand.

 

Ie: Old wife would say: honey, I was thinking... Sarah's hubby bought her a back massager and a diamond ring..

 

New communication wife would say: I want a back massage and some attention, and in return I'll have sex with you.

 

 

Haa ahahhahaa haahhahahaa

 

I hope no other women read this.. I'll get banned from the girls club.

[Alexandra]

Ie: Old wife would say: honey, I was thinking... Sarah's hubby bought her a back massager and a diamond ring..

 

New communication wife would say: I want a back massage and some attention, and in return I'll have sex with you.

 

Ummm so in essence, New Communicating Wife would STILL be doing him a favour despite disliking sex?

[wantedbetter]

Man, here I am feeling pretty good about my income and along comes a guy making TWICE what I do . . . . .damn . . . .maybe my wife does have a point by insinuating my $135K ain't enough!

 

Hard2Think . . . .I reiterate Walk's question . . . .are you still married. As painful a lesson as a spouse could learn . . . .is your wife seeing some bad ways you guys TOGETHER lived out prior to your affair as reasons (again, not an excuse) for the affair, or is she simply going to crucify you with it? In which case, why try to salvage the marriage? So, in retrospect was the affair worth it? Believe me, I understand the incredibly powerful lure of a woman who'll suddenly seem to find you desireable, handsome, sexy, worth pleasing, when the ONE person you want to feel that way will not. But the price to pay for that, especially with children involved, is simply too high.

 

Walk, there's a few posts on here that try to explain our simple male brains. When a need (let's say . . . .hmmmm . . . .I dunno . . . .sex) is withheld from us a good guy is going to ask his mate . . . ."why"? When the mate replies, "I feel frustrated that I can't re-do the bathroom/kitchen because you tell me there's no money" Then that guy, if within his capability, is going to try to earn more money so his wife can get the bath-room re done. Once it's re-done the guy is GOING to feel that his wife will NOW be more in the mood . . . .not that she'll say to herself . . . "Holy sh*t! All I have to do is deny him sex . . . .and I get what I want!?!?! What incredible power I have!" We simply don't expect that that kind of manipulation is something a spouse does to another . . . not anyone they swore to love . . . .anyway. Yet too many of us experience this.

 

Point being, when our wives say . . . "In not in the mood due to my frustration over not having enough money" we DON'T whip out the wine and back rubs . . . .we get the money. That's how men's brains work . . . .we do they thing you SAY you want . . . .'cause in spite of the power you feel your female brain "vibes" emit . . . .we only really pick up they WORDS. Sorry if I'm the first male to throw out that news flash. . . .but I think YOU (Walk) knew it!!

[onmyownagain]

I have been in this situation with lack of sex and it makes you feel like s**t when you get turned down. What I think I found is when my wife says no, I would ask the next day and the next day etc. got rejected again and again.

 

Now we make love quite a bit, I asked her to make love last night but she said, could we leave it tonight because she was tired. No problem at all, we can do it another night. I didn't feel rejected at all so I think a little effort on her part would take the pressure off.

 

We are both much happier now and I feel like a man again. :-)

[Alexandra]

Wantedbetter, a question. Is the purpose of this thread venting and bonding only or do you actually want to change things for the better? Because if it's the latter, I think you're currently stuck in over-generalizing and accomplishing the former only and doing very little in the way of devising "fixing strategies".

 

I know you said you tried everything but how's about spending less time thinking about "All women think X and feel Y" and more on "Hmmm I wonder what my woman thinks about X and how she feels about Y".

[Hard2Think]

My point about the money is that I'm sure as we're sitting here that some guy making 500K is getting yelled at by his wife for not making enough money and so on .. and I'm also know a guy in a happy marriage making 75K.

 

Yes, I'm still married - but just barely. I am getting crucified for my affair - but for that I can't blame her too much. She found out about two weeks ago and not in the most pleasant manner.

 

While I have brought up the neglect during the marriage - and in spite of the fact that I brought it up MANY times, she claims not to have known that things were that bad. In other words, she sees this as an excuse because it just could not be that serious in her mind.

 

The bottom line is that I felt rejected, and abused. I used to dread coming home because I knew she was going to have a slew of things to yell about.

 

But I could never leave - no matter how appealing the idea. First of all, I was and I am still in love with her. And I want to keep the family together because I love my kids.

 

While I know it's not politically acceptable to say this .. I would never have had an affair if my wife could have made a small effort to show that she loved me. I suspect you're in the same boat as I.

 

Man, here I am feeling pretty good about my income and along comes a guy making TWICE what I do . . . . .damn . . . .maybe my wife does have a point by insinuating my $135K ain't enough!

 

Hard2Think . . . .I reiterate Walk's question . . . .are you still married. As painful a lesson as a spouse could learn . . . .is your wife seeing some bad ways you guys TOGETHER lived out prior to your affair as reasons (again, not an excuse) for the affair, or is she simply going to crucify you with it? In which case, why try to salvage the marriage? So, in retrospect was the affair worth it? Believe me, I understand the incredibly powerful lure of a woman who'll suddenly seem to find you desireable, handsome, sexy, worth pleasing, when the ONE person you want to feel that way will not. But the price to pay for that, especially with children involved, is simply too high.

 

Walk, there's a few posts on here that try to explain our simple male brains. When a need (let's say . . . .hmmmm . . . .I dunno . . . .sex) is withheld from us a good guy is going to ask his mate . . . ."why"? When the mate replies, "I feel frustrated that I can't re-do the bathroom/kitchen because you tell me there's no money" Then that guy, if within his capability, is going to try to earn more money so his wife can get the bath-room re done. Once it's re-done the guy is GOING to feel that his wife will NOW be more in the mood . . . .not that she'll say to herself . . . "Holy sh*t! All I have to do is deny him sex . . . .and I get what I want!?!?! What incredible power I have!" We simply don't expect that that kind of manipulation is something a spouse does to another . . . not anyone they swore to love . . . .anyway. Yet too many of us experience this.

 

Point being, when our wives say . . . "In not in the mood due to my frustration over not having enough money" we DON'T whip out the wine and back rubs . . . .we get the money. That's how men's brains work . . . .we do they thing you SAY you want . . . .'cause in spite of the power you feel your female brain "vibes" emit . . . .we only really pick up they WORDS. Sorry if I'm the first male to throw out that news flash. . . .but I think YOU (Walk) knew it!!

[Walk]

Ummm so in essence, New Communicating Wife would STILL be doing him a favour despite disliking sex?

 

Why does someone dislike sex? I like sex. I love sex!

 

No, no.. I was saying.. New communicative wife asks for what she wants without hinting, innuendo's or attempting to use ESP to communicate her wants.

 

Guess I'm going off the assumption that the woman's needs aren't being fulfilled and thats why she's not desiring sex with her hubby. So if her needs were met, then her desire for sex would return. Probably wrong in that thinking.

 

Maybe she just hates sex.

[Walk]

Point being, when our wives say . . . "In not in the mood due to my frustration over not having enough money" we DON'T whip out the wine and back rubs . . . .we get the money. That's how men's brains work . . . .we do they thing you SAY you want . . . .'cause in spite of the power you feel your female brain "vibes" emit . . . .we only really pick up they WORDS. Sorry if I'm the first male to throw out that news flash. . . .but I think YOU (Walk) knew it!!

 

Not sure if my message got conveyed wrong, or if I'm not reading yours right... Basically, that's what I was trying to say. People, in general, need to ask for what they want if that is truly what they want. Both men and women do this.. and I've seen it in friendships, families and marriages... When we feel we asked and its not given, then someone feels resentful. Or sometimes we expect and it's not given, and we feel resentful.

[Walk]

Now we make love quite a bit, I asked her to make love last night but she said, could we leave it tonight because she was tired. No problem at all, we can do it another night. I didn't feel rejected at all so I think a little effort on her part would take the pressure off.

 

We are both much happier now and I feel like a man again. :-)

The million dollar question (drum roll) ................................

 

How?

[Hard2Think]

I'm willing to bet he asked - like I did with my wife. I could never get a straight answer. It often involved an expensive trip - because our bedroom just wasn't romantic enough. But all in all - I think many women don't desire the sex as much anymore and can't figure out why the husbands keep bugging them about it.

 

Not sure if my message got conveyed wrong, or if I'm not reading yours right... Basically, that's what I was trying to say. People, in general, need to ask for what they want if that is truly what they want. Both men and women do this.. and I've seen it in friendships, families and marriages... When we feel we asked and its not given, then someone feels resentful. Or sometimes we expect and it's not given, and we feel resentful.

[Walk]

You're not asking the right questions though.

 

Mine always asked, "what would make you more interested in sex?" hmm.. Well, I'm not. But a new person, a new bedroom, a new place, a new life.. Anything but what I've got right now.

 

What I wanted to hear... what can I do for you?

Just for me. With no expectation of return on his part. Done out of pure love and wanting to make me happy, no strings attached, no benefit to him.

 

I was resentful that he always got his way. Everything seemed to be about his wants/desires/needs and if it included me.. it was only because he benefited from it. I will say again. This is entirely subjective. He did NOT see our marriage the same way. He thought he gave everything, he did everything, and was the perfect husband. I was the ungrateful B who denied him sex and then left him. Months after I left he was still asking me "Why?".

 

However, I learned to dread the words "redecorate", and "shopping"... so maybe I'm not the best female perspective to take on this.

[wantedbetter]

Walk,

 

yes you are saying that, but maybe I was looking for hidden meaning or trying to be smart by half . . . . .you're saying a wife/girlfriend should ask for what she wants from her husband/bf . . . .and I couldn't agree more. I'm just reading your words through the "filter of my experiences" by wondering . . . "Ok . . . . five years ago, very little physical intimacy coming from my wife. I ask her "why?" In counseling, in conversations she says, "I'm sooooooo frustrated that I can't 1) re-do the bathrooms, 2) re-do the kitchen 3) get a back-yard deck because you say there's no money." I say "yes, that's right, on $70,000-$75,000 a year, darling, we can't do those things unless we want to risk bankruptcy" That doesn't seem to matter to her as her resentment toward me rises . . . even less sex between us. So what do I do? Quit THAT job ,seek out another, make $135,000 (give or take a little with bonuses) re-do the bathrooms, get the back-yard deck/patio thing done . . .sex improves a little, for awhile, and now sinks back into the same old rut and I'm hearing the same old thing about money again."

 

To my mind . . . .I've really done quite a bit to meet her needs AS SHE NAMED them, so I'm left utterly confused as to why my need (oh, and, by the way, this is a need that in meeting it for me a "side effect" is that she gets to experience great physical pleasure as well. . . . did I mention that?) is still left unmet?

 

Walk . . .my "filter" is probably why I didn't understand you at first.

 

Hard2Think . . . . .I'm exactly YOU (sans the affair) Though I think about one more and more everyday. Don't you find it incredible that some wives will literally tell you that sex is NOT a big deal in their lives(thereby insinuating it SHOULD NO LONGER BE in yours) but they will get the divorce lawyer on the phone quicker than you can say, "But gee, honey, what part of "I'm not happy with our love life" that I've ben saying for years did you not understand" once they find out you had sex with someone else!!! Why is that?

 

Alexandra . . . the purpose of my post is two-fold in looking at your question to me. But I'm hoping the posters on this thread will indulge me going through "phases" As my title says . . . .I really truly am just looking for folks to talk with, to hear my vent. This may be the phase I'm in now. Though i believe I'm very open to anyone who has helpful constructive suggestions to offer.

 

C'mon, can't a guy just talk to be listened to, why do you ladies always want to jump right in and solve things for us?!?!

 

WB

[onmyownagain]

The million dollar question (drum roll) ................................

 

How?

 

I am not sure really, I had tried all the other things people mention on here, romantic things, presents etc. but she would see right through these things like all women do.

 

I told her how important it is to make love and started to back away and make it obvious I wouldn't put up with this any more.

 

As I say, once she made the effort (because if they don't want it as much as you, it takes effort on their part) I becamesatisfied with my love life. Because I wasn't nagging anymore she relaxed and enjoyed it as well.

 

Now if I buy her a gift she likes it because she knows it's not to get into her pants.

[honeybunch2k5]

You give your wife $5-$10 grand a month? That's like riches! That is definitely not something to complain about about.

 

And I'm sure it must be sooooo miserable to have a husband who makes 6 digits and works overtime.

 

Here's a big ol *cyber hug*

[wantedbetter]

Thanks for the hug! I appreciate it. When I add it up per month for things like clothes, shoes, new lamps, area rugs, other room "enhancers", it's more like $2,000 a month. I think what I was saying is that, if I believe her complaints about why she's not more loving, affectionate, and ,yes, more in the "mood" it's because I'm NOT coming through with between $5,000 to $10,000.

[honeybunch2k5]

$2,000 is still riches where I'm from!

Are those things really necessary every month?

 

Maybe she has some emotional problem and she's trying to fill it with material things:confused:

 

I think there is some problem other than getting the house remodeled...

[Guest]

thanks gunny that was funny!!! all kidding aside he is right and another thing, thanks gunny for the insite and the words you sent me.

still single! $135,000 a year?

 

And she's still belly aching? She quits her job and tells you to worry about making up the $40,000 a year difference.

 

Tell you what, I'll help you out here Pal. If one Saturday morning I see you out cutting the front lawn, I'll pick up speed, jump the curb, and run over you and put you out of your ever-loving misery! I'd do it for you because I know you would do it for me and not want a friend to suffer!

[TheDiva]

$2,000 is still riches where I'm from!

Are those things really necessary every month?

 

Maybe she has some emotional problem and she's trying to fill it with material things:confused:

 

I think there is some problem other than getting the house remodeled...

 

Dead on HB! But then again I don't personally understand the allure of shopping/spending/remodeling thing. I hate shopping.

 

But of course being a female, she may not know what she wants/needs either. I hate those days, when I don't know what I want or need, damn female hormones & emotions. Luckily for me it's not every day. Just every now and then I don't know what I want or need!

 

WTH is up with women who don't want sex (or affection) anyway? My absolute minimum for sex is 4x a week. H will do my bidding and like it or else! But it is physically easier to get a man in the mood.

 

WB- have you thought of moving into a place that she cannot remodel? She needs to remodel her insides more than her environment. My opinion though, not worth much for you and her. Better yet tell her you want to give away all your worldly possessions because you want a wife and partner in life not a materialistic, nonsexual, housemate. Not very helpful huh.

 

You are entitled to be listened to, but really IME guys don't really like to talk to be heard. Or was that the other way around?

 

In all seriousness I think Walk is somewhere on the money. Its just trying to figure out how to implement the changes in her behavior, and yours as well.

 

To make a long story way short. In the first year on my marriage, I had some serious issues that came up. It had nothing to do with my H. But it affected everything between us, small to large and in about 8 months of marriage I knew I had make a huge mistake in getting married! I resented him, for every stupid little thing, good and bad. I am not proud of it, at all. In fact most of it I never even meant. But the issues I had within myself where the problem. Compounding this problem were his reactions to my problem.

 

Start to finish this lasted 26 months:( I am so thankful and lucky that my H is a such a wonderful man that continued to push against me and try, try and try again. But neither of us felt heard, listened to, or understood by each other the whole time. Once we did learn the way each of us communicated and how the other perceived said communications, we started working through it together. We may still have things like that happen again, but I think our survival has shown us that we can survive anything together. It also gave us the particular tools that we as a couple need to utilize to wade through our problems together.

 

SHEW and that was the short version!

 

Anyway the point is, it may take a long time to figure out what went wrong, how it went wrong and what it will take to fix it. But you can do it, and I think everyone here believes in you.

 

If it makes any difference, my husband is Ex-navy...

[wantedbetter]

Thanks Diva,

 

I'm heading off to work so I can write more later. I'm glad you and your husband worked it out. and four times a week?!?!?!? You sound like every guy's dream for a spouse.

 

26 months is not a long time to work out problems. Ours are going on 11 years. And while I may not speak for ALL men(but I think I do for 99.9999999999% of us) there's NO quicker way to take the will, the desire to fight, for our marriages out of us than to deny, or to turn off, the physical intimacy, the love making, the sex. Our gas tanks go to zero real fast with that tactic! You can take away the wonderful meals, the sparkling clean house, whatever, we'll still try and be the best damn husbands we can be. Take away being our lovers, sorry, but we become dried up shells of men. . . . . just going through the motions.

 

I truly WISH it were not that way . . . .but I didn't design the system!

[Walk]

WantedBetter..

 

Can I ask you some questions? They don't pertain to your situation, but they do to mine, and I would be grateful for insight into the male mind... And you are one of the few posters that seem to see deeper than just genitals.

 

Even though you make a hell of a lot of money (in my view you do) do you feel it's up to her to do all or most of the work to create the arousal in you to have sex? If not, why? Do you feel it's a shared thing? Why/why not?

 

In relation to sex in your marriage, do you feel your wife.. kind of owes you sex? Since you pay all the bills, and you do half the house work, etc.. do you feel that she should sort of "repay" that by desiring sex more?

 

 

 

This is not about your situation at all. And I don't mean to hijack your thread or anything, but you would be doing me a huge favor if you could explain how you view these questions. I'd PM you these questions, but it wasn't letting me.

 

Again, I'm sorry for the hijack, but I would be grateful to hear your views.

[Hard2Think]

I hope I can answer that for you as well. I was (am) in the same situation.

 

I never thought that my wife "owed" me sex and affection. I wouldn't even want it if it was coming as a form of obligation. But at the same time I thought it was dishonest to allow me to do my part - which isn't always easy, and yet feel she doesn't need to treat me like a husband.

 

In other words, if you want me as a husband then you need to also want me as a lover. It's not fair to only keep me around to be a provider because that works out for you in practical terms and yet reject me as a lover because you're too tired or whatever.

 

It made me feel used and taken advantage of.

 

WantedBetter..

 

Can I ask you some questions? They don't pertain to your situation, but they do to mine, and I would be grateful for insight into the male mind... And you are one of the few posters that seem to see deeper than just genitals.

 

Even though you make a hell of a lot of money (in my view you do) do you feel it's up to her to do all or most of the work to create the arousal in you to have sex? If not, why? Do you feel it's a shared thing? Why/why not?

 

In relation to sex in your marriage, do you feel your wife.. kind of owes you sex? Since you pay all the bills, and you do half the house work, etc.. do you feel that she should sort of "repay" that by desiring sex more?

 

 

 

This is not about your situation at all. And I don't mean to hijack your thread or anything, but you would be doing me a huge favor if you could explain how you view these questions. I'd PM you these questions, but it wasn't letting me.

 

Again, I'm sorry for the hijack, but I would be grateful to hear your views.

[Walk]

Do you feel that you should meet her part way in order to create sexual desire in both of you?

 

Or do you feel you work incredibly hard to pay for the life you have, and she should have to do all the work to ensure you aren't treated as just a wallet?

[Hard2Think]

Halfway? I'd meet her the whole way if that would create desire in her..! So no - any effort would be worthwhile. It's just that I don't get any idea of what she wants other than to stop approaching her for sex ..

 

Do you feel that you should meet her part way in order to create sexual desire in both of you?

 

Or do you feel you work incredibly hard to pay for the life you have, and she should have to do all the work to ensure you aren't treated as just a wallet?

[wantedbetter]

Hey Walk! Thought you had "walked" off the board . . . get it? Walk . . .Walked? Pretty clever, huh?

 

Anyway . . . .I'm kinda with Hard2Think. If a husband and wife can't be enthusiatic lovers . . . .why not just be room-mates? I mean really . . .why not?

 

I do the things I do for my wife and kids because I love them. And taking my vows seriously, I do them no matter what . . . .because I promised I would. People are LYING on these marriage/relationship boards if they say they went into marriage expecting only to give and to meet their spouse's needs with ABSOLUTELY no expectations that their spouse would willingly meet theirs as well. If you truly expected that kind of treatment from a person . . . . .honestly, why get married?

 

Since you asked for a male point of view, I'll tell you. We don't want our wives to feel obligated to make love to us because we earn money, or squish bugs or mow the lawn. We want them to want to make love to us basically for two reasons 1) because they love us, and they know how intimately connected we'll feel to them if they share this with us and 2) because making love with us FEELS REALLY FRIGGIN' GOOD and you guys think we're GREAT at making you feel really, really good.

 

If she feels loving towards me BECAUSE she sees how hard I work for her and my family and that that puts her in the mood . . . .then I'm very happy for that! I think that's how marriage should kinda work and kinda meets No. 1 above. And while it may seem close in logic . . . .it's actually OCEANS apart in my mind for my wife to feel or think, "Well, he did just come through with $5,000 for tiling the bathroom, I guess I can spare 15 minutes and let him get his rocks off on me. The first sentence or two in this paragraph describes, to me, a marriage. The last one describes a prostitution deal. It's also like mercy sex . . . .and most decent guys would rather use Jergens, tissue and a Victoria's Secret catalog than take mercy sex from their wives . . . .at least a wife he swore a vow to love "till death do us part".

 

The other part of your question . . . .hey, your gender should feel good to go in this area. See, we have the demon testosterone pulsing through our veins. Unless there's something physically wrong with