Can't really Talk to My Wife . . .Looking for Folks to talk with

[Walk]

I don't mean to interrupt the flow of thought here.. but I've noticed a tendency to kind of assume certain facts are true without any concrete proof. And perhaps if you re-evaluated your assumptions, you may potentially be able to come to a better understanding with your wife.

 

You say she withholds sex from you. You seem to assume this is a power play, done to punish you, or to force you to give what she wants. And that all she wants is more money. I can't speak for ALL women, but the majority that I've known and talked to in my life aren't "using" sex against men. But if the emotional connection isn't occuring, then sex usually isn't occuring. There are also other emotional problems (depression) and physical problems that can decrease a woman's libido. Has she seen a doctor? Or on any medication lately?

 

I have to feel loved and valued in order to feel a sexual desire. I don't expect most men to understand since you guys are so hardwired for sex that no connection need occur ever. You want a hole, all the rest is just a bonus.

 

I'm also getting a strong sense that you feel you've been used and taken advantage of, and you feel she's had a free ride. That your "well ran dry" first. There's a huge undercurrent of resentment in your posts (which is completely understandable), but have you considered that your wife may not have been happy for a a long while now? In the past, had you noticed changes in her behavior? Or had she discussed things she had wanted from life, that she wasn't getting because of the kids, or other things?

 

I'm not saying you did anything wrong... but I DO know that men have a tendency not to understand a woman when we bring up OUR concerns. It seems to go in one ear and out the other. However, when the sex dries up, then the men come bashing through doors to find out what the problem is. This might not be a power play on her part to con more money out of you, but a symptom of a much deeper, dormant problem that you may not have noticed up until now. In my marriage, I had spent years attempting to get my husband to realize that he was not taking my thoughts and feelings into consideration. But no matter how I worded it or phrased my concerns, nothing changed. After a few years of this, a majority our fights became about money. It was tangible. Concrete. I felt he got more than I did, and I felt secondary. The amount of money we had wasn't really my problem, it was the way he treated me that was... money just became a scape goat for it. That's why nothing changed no matter who took over the bills, or how we divided the spending money. It wasn't about the money, it was a symbol of a much deeper problem. I felt I got less than he did in everything: his feelings came first, his needs came first, his wants came first, he came first... I wanted my share! And dammit, I was going to take it out of him in money since nothing else I wanted or needed would be addressed.

 

It wasn't until the sex dried up that my husband realized there was a problem in our relationship. I don't want to make him out to be a bad man, he wasn't. He honestly thought he was giving me every thing I could ever want and more. (He built me a 3,000 sqft home. Gave me a huge diamond ring, etc.. just not what I really wanted...) But after the sex dried up, then he felt taken advantage of and used. But I had been feeling resentful, unheard, and secondary for over two years by that point. He didn't want to give me an inch because he felt taken advantage of, I didn't feel I owed him any more because I had felt taken advantage of... we stalemated. Then we divorced.

 

Anyway, I think you're attempting to make a simplistic generalization about a complicated problem without considering a broader view.

 

Please carry on with your female bashing... sorry for the interruption.

[Walk]

most wives would be SHOCKED with how their husbands changed once the sex becomes more frequent and enthusiastic. You wouldn't have to ask twice to get a man to put down the remote and pick up the dish-towel if you gave that life-style a try!!

A side note... my exH loved video games and I could never get his attention away from it... I used to come out wearing lingeria and rubbing myself while standing in front of the tv. Begging him to come to the bedroom with me..

 

He told me to get out of the way of the tv.

 

Don't take us for granted, and the sex will be frequent and enthusiastic.

[wantedbetter]

Wow . . .Walk!

 

I appreciate your replies but gosh . . . .it's really like you haven't read my posts!

 

I don't see the "female bashing" in MY posts, I really don't.

 

I read things in MY posts like:

 

1) wanting affection (hand holds, etc) BEFORE sex!

2) wanting conversation about things like how the stars look tonight BEFORE sex!

3) getting home, being with the kids, helping out around the house, giving her her "alone" time, AND earning a good living for her (three closests of clothes!)

4) me being the one to initiate counseling, letting her pick the counselor, and me continuing to go after she's bailed on serveral occasions.

 

Seems like you missed those posts. I appreciate your perspective and hope you continue to post to me. I feel sorry for your pain of your divorce, but I'm NOT your ex-husband. You didn't write any of the stuff I put down in 1-4 about him!

 

I would NEVER, EVER, NEVER, EVER push my wife away when she wanted affection or love-making for a friggin' video game!!!! That's a boy . . . .not a man. And decent men don't need/want "holes" as you put it We want meaningful sexual intimacy with a woman . . . .and nutured by that committment we see/feel in our woman, a good decent man will commit to her, and willingly, joyfully, meet her needs for the rest of our lives.

 

Don't project your bad experience with your "boy" on to other men. I don't think all women are like my wife . . . .heck, I'm hoping my wife is not like my wife, 'cause how she is in her forties in VERY different than how she was in her twenties. And you're right, their could be many reasons why, and I've spent alot of effort trying to find out . . . .and I'm willing to try some more . . . .but I'm just getting real, real tired after all these years.

 

Again, I appreciate your perspective.

[josie54]

It sounds very much as if your wife is depressed and looking to material things (shopping) to fill the void. If she isn't willing to go to personal counseling, or talk to a doctor about treatment, there's not going to be a lot you can do. Divorce is tough, not just because of the kids, but also because of the financial complexities of the deal. You may not be ready to take that step, understandably so, but you also shouldn't let yourself be treated like a second-class citizen in your own home.

 

So, as best you can, try to make yourself happy. I agree with a previous poster that says you definitely need to make more male friends. In spite of your wife's possible objections, you need to get life going again. It seems to have stalled in your home. So, have a poker night at your house (co-workers, friends, family)....make it a party where your wife and her friends come over and play poker or do something else they enjoy. Take the family for a picnic. Walk in the park, take rock climbing lessons, take a class in a subject you're interested in. Volunteer with an organziation you feel strongly about. Etc. That is, break the monotony for you AND your wife. Try to do something each week--heck, each day--to have some fun, despite what your wife says or thinks (but, of course, try to include her in some of the fun as well).

 

Sometimes people need to get outside their own heads for a while (myself included). Sometimes the best way to solve a problem is to put it aside for a while, focus on other people and activities, and gain some much needed perspective on the broader situation. If you can start your life up again, and see what it has to offer, you might be able to gain some strength to deal with your own situation--either the strength to inspire more respect from your wife, and make the situation tenable, or the strength to leave an untenable situation.

[Walk]

I read things in MY posts like:

 

1) wanting affection (hand holds, etc) BEFORE sex!

 

I don't think all women are like my wife . . . .heck, I'm hoping my wife is not like my wife, 'cause how she is in her forties in VERY different than how she was in her twenties.

 

Actually, I should've been a little more clear on what I was saying. I was really hoping you'd look through the bitterness to the message beneath. Not that I was saying You did anything, but the potential for both you and your wife to say things that aren't necessarily the underlying problem. I didn't mean to offend, for that I'm sorry.

 

I was wondering mostly if the money issue is only the last stage of the problem, and perhaps shouldn't be the main focuse at this point. Perhaps a better way to look at it might be that she is depressed, and there fore it is affecting your intimacy levels? In that line of thought you can find potential solutions. But I hear you say she is with holding sex, and wants more money for her extravagant shopping, and there isn't really a solution to that other than to cut off the money...

Wife has built up ALOT of resentment toward me becuase, best I can figure . . . I don't give her enough "mad money" to shop with per month.

 

She shows resentment by with-holding affection and sex

Our conversations are generally fights about money

 

I guess I'm having a hard time believing that the person you loved and married would turn out to be all consumed with money for money's sake. So I tend to think that its more about filling a need that isn't being met. She's substituting. And it doesn't seem to be working as a substitute. And that's why it's never enough money. Because the need is never filled.

 

As far as the female bashing.. It was Gunny's posts I was referring to, not yours. I should have clarified that point.

[Walk]

Do you two do any sports together? Like walking, biking, swimming, uh.. yoga.. anything?

 

1. This might help bring the two of you closer together.

2. If she is depressed this will help elevate her mood.

3. Its time spent together where she isn't filling the conversation with her shopping wants. ie: hopefully more fulfilling for you.

4. Studies have been done that prove people feel a closer bond with someone if their heart rates increase together.

[a4a]

You want sex and she wants stuff........

 

If your W was giving you all the sex you wanted would her shopping habits still bother you? As much?

 

 

And Gunny love don't pay the mortgage or the electric bill. And just like many men will not date a butt ugly women (their choice), many women don't want a broke guy to suck off their paycheck either....... choice.......nothing wrong with that.

[Walk]

I didn't mean to chase you off! Honestly!

 

Come back and post... I was having the same problems you are lately. My guy won't touch me with a ten foot pole. So I've been a little frustrated in a lot of ways lately and my post showed it.

 

Please come back... I swear I won't make another peep!

[Gunny376]

You want sex and she wants stuff........

 

If your W was giving you all the sex you wanted would her shopping habits still bother you? As much?

 

 

And Gunny love don't pay the mortgage or the electric bill. And just like many men will not date a butt ugly women (their choice), many women don't want a broke guy to suck off their paycheck either....... choice.......nothing wrong with that.

 

 

And a lot of women aren't a pratical, pragmatic, and balanced as you seem to be..........................

[Gunny376]

As far as the female bashing.. It was Gunny's posts I was referring to, not yours. I should have clarified that point.

 

Me? I wasn't female bashing ~ however now that you've brought it up ~ there is a prevalent attitude in this country, perpetuated by "femme-Nazis" that women are right and justified in everything, and that men are wrong in and about everything. And, it has grown over the last fifty years. This fallacy purports that if women were in charge of everything there would be no wars, there would be no ____________________(fill in the blank) and all would be good, and this would be the land of milk and honey. It is reinforced even unto our young men ~ because more and more are being raised in single parent households ~ headed by women. Feminist have brought the institution of marriage and the state of the American family to where it is today.

 

I’m not anti-female, nor am I anti-woman. But, I unashamedly am anti-feminist. Not that I don’t believe in equal rights ~ but because I don’t fully support most of the feminist agenda, nor a lot of the other agendas that are being held out as having legitimacy.

 

You, yourself came out and strongly insinuated that its Wantedbetter’s failings and shortcomings as a man, and as an individual, and not his wife! This is the same old tired train of thought that goes "If a man cheats on his wife, whose fault is it? The man’s. If a woman cheats on her husband, whose fault is it? The man’s" Sorry, you can’t and don’t get it both ways.

Finally, from time to time when a man comes along, such as myself and speaks his own mind ~ people like you want to come out and call it "female bashing" Well news flash for you ~ last time I heard women are far from perfect. 90% of all divorce petitions are filed by women ~ for good reasons I’m sure ~ but its women giving up on marriage, not the men.

 

Women are they’re own worse enemy!

[wantedbetter]

Walk . . .

 

I can't post/read at work. . . so my posting has to wait till evenings (after I clean up dinner and put a kid or two to bed. . . .you know, baths, reading stories, saying prayers, etc.) or early in the mornings after waking up and getting ready for work while everyone else is still sleeping.

 

That's my posting times.

 

I don't mind you "peeping". Please peep! I joined this board so I could talk with folks!!

 

WB

 

And Gunny's a good guy. He's a Marine and that's A-OK in my book. The sex stuff is truly a LAND MINE issues for us guys . . . .so many wrongs steps to make in an area that frankly confuses guys like me, because the way I figure it . . . .I'm asking my woman to give me a half hour and I'm promising to bring her a good deal of physical pleasure. (At least that's the feed-back I've been given over the years when we DO make love) . . . .the reaction us men get sometimes is like you think we just asked you to change the oil in our cars!!!!!! VERY confusing!

[Gunny376]

Semper Fi, Mac! Semper Fi!

 

Kin know kin!

 

Clan knows clan!

 

Blood knows blood!

 

Vets know vets!

 

Warriors know warriors!

 

We need not speak words between us ~ for we are of the same blood, We are of "kindered" spirits.

 

We speak not to each other ~ for we know!

 

Its in the blood and its to the bone!

[Walk]

You, yourself came out and strongly insinuated that its Wantedbetter’s failings and shortcomings as a man, and as an individual, and not his wife!

I believe that the people who post on this board are open and willing to begin the changes that will hopefully resolve their problem. Not that the person who posts created the problem.. I was rather hoping WantedBetter could gain insight into motives that may be causing his wife to act the way she is, and be able to find solutions to resolve the problem. Not to bash him, or say he's at fault, or that he even did anything wrong. Was trying to share my experience in hopes he could find a grain of truth that he may be able to use in his relationship so that it doesn't end in divorce. My wording in my post was not supportive of him or men in general. A lot of bitterness came through in it. It was a bad day and I probably should've held my tongue.

 

Not that I don’t believe in equal rights ~ but because I don’t fully support most of the feminist agenda, nor a lot of the other agendas that are being held out as having legitimacy.

 

I like a person who has strong convictions and beliefs, and you seem very staunch in yours. I don't want to debate the femi-nazi mentalitiy, because I don't believe in it. I see the issue as much larger and more complex then feminists are willing to acknowledge. They aren't spouting equality for people, they just want more power for themselves. Women who want equality don't take more than they've earned. Whatever is owed is paid back in full and immediately. And they don't shirk responsibility with excuses of being a certain gender.

 

I have had to put a lot of women in check in my life for attempting to skate out of work based on their gender. At the same time, I've had many other women who impressed the heck out of me with their ability to use every resource available to get a job done. Everyone is an individual, and I try very hard to treat them individually.

 

 

p.s. I'm a LCpl in the USMC. Yet I'm still not invited to your parties?

[wantedbetter]

Wow! TWO Marines on ONE thread . . . .who'da thunk!

 

Anyway . . .I appreciate all the good thoughts Walk . . .in one of my previous posts you should have read that all my wife's siblings (including my wife) are on anti-depressants. I can't escape the fact of seeing how they were raised by two of the most self-centered, superficial folks ever to give birth as the reason.

 

I know about anti-depressants and libido. My wife is on one that's NOT supposed to effect libido though. She just takes the pill and doesn't work on any of the underlying issues (like her up-bringing) because like many Americans she feels . . . .PILLS SHOULD CURE EVERYTHING!!

 

I'm not skilled enough to be her therapist, I'm her husband; though I keep encouraging her to go see someone.

 

Your other suggestions about working out, yoga etc are very good ones and I'm doing my best there. I give her time to work out 'cause we generally feel one of us has to be home with the kids, though we just found a place that has a good child care center in the facility, so we're going to join that and work-out together!

 

To answer another posters thought . . . if she gave me all the sex I wanted would I feel better about the money . . . .well . . . no, it's not an either "chicken or the egg thing"

 

I won't deny I make a good salary, but still, there's only so much money. Once you understand your bills and investments . . . .I don't belive ANYONE can spend freely. I often say . . .Bill and Melinda Gates even have limits . . .Bill might have to say at times . . ."honey, we can't buy that Caribbean island this week . . . .it might have to wait."

 

The concept applies to all couples of all income levels IF they want to remain financially solvent. Because I'm the money man, we fight about money if I realize that the spending is out of control. Her denying me sex or giving me all I want doesn't create more money, so it truly wouldn't matter. I simply feel her denial of intimacy with me, if truly about money . . . only makes matters worse.

 

WB

[Walk]

I looked back through the posts trying to find out if you'd already answered this question, but didn't see it... I may have missed it, and if so, then ignore this...

 

What does your wife say when you bring up the intimacy issue? I'm assuming you've brought this up at least once. What was the jist of the conversation? What'd you say, what'd she say?

 

Has she had her blood levels checked? Full physical done? Menopause? No cysts or anything abnormal?

 

What have you already tried? Maybe if you look back over what hasn't worked, tried looking at it from a different perspective, then maybe there's a simple answer to this that we just haven't hit on yet?

 

Or do you feel this mostly stems from her past and family relations? That you probably are not going to be able to affect the situation much until she can resolve her problems with her past?

[Gunny376]

[quote=Walk;878963 p.s. I'm a LCpl in the USMC. Yet I'm still not invited to your parties?

 

 

Then you of all people should know that Marine Gunnery Sergeants are the very epitome of:

 

Caring

Giving

Nuturing

Sensitivity

Thoughtfulness

Compassion

 

as enspoused by the Woman's movement!

 

Now go get me a beer!

[Walk]

Now go get me a beer!

Never leave a lance coolie alone with the beer.. You should know better than that.

 

Where did Wantedbetter go?

[wantedbetter]

Here I am. Very difficult to get to the board with the evening routine. I hope things will become a little more "normal" when school begins.

 

Lessee . . . . .when I bring up the issue about our intimacy levels my wife usually feels attacked/judged and it usually leads to a fight. So I really don't bring it up too much anymore. I really do try to choose my words wisely, but ultimately I am telling her that I'm not satisfied with our frequency. There was a recent article in the Sunday insert (I think they call them "Parade" magazine) saying that men who make love with their wives three or more times a week have a 50% lower risk of heart attack or stroke than men you make love less frequently. I showed that article to her and she frowned saying, "It's always about sex with you isn't it?"

 

She usually knows of my unhappiness after a rejection that tops two-three weeks of rejections . . . .when I will semi-explode with phrases like, "I'm tired of being your room-mate!" and I'll go sleep in another room.

 

At our age, we know several couples divorcing due to a husband's infidelity and those occasions will give us opportunities to talk. I'm careful to point out as we talk that I think a huge problem in the world is a mis-understanding with most folks between a "reason" and an "excuse" There are many REASONS we do the things we do, but most often . . . .there are no excuses.

 

I tell her I can understand the REASON for a man's infidelity to his wife if there is no physical intimacy between the two, especially if he's begged her, pleaded with her, tried to talk with her and explain his level of pain over the lack of intimacy . . . . .but if he chooses to cheat . . . there's no excuse. Strangely. she feel in on the side of and old Army buddy of mine that she knew "back in the day" who told us he hadn't made love with his wife in over ten months. His wife caught him on an "on-line" dating service trying to meet women and threw him out and was beginning the process of divorce. My wife, citing the lack of love-making, sided with my buddy!!!! Saying stuff like "Well, you don't really have a marriage then, do you?" Stuff like that!! I was amazed. Our friend said, "Well you guys just keep doing whatever it is you're doing to keep the sexual "magic" going because that's the PRIMARY way a man knows he's loved by his wife!" My wife glanced at me and I gave her a LOOK. She knew what I thought and in subsequent conversations over our friend's dilemma I basically let her know that there's only shades of grey between no love making for ten months and none for four-five-six weeks. If one partner's unhappy . . . .then no amount of wishing it wasn't so on the part of the other . . . is going to get that partner happy. As we all felt on those wedding days years ago . . . .our partner's going to have actually abide by their vows and MAKE their partners happy . . . .by meeting their needs in they way they define them. I try my utmost to do that everyday in the areas my wife tells me about . . . . . .I just need to see the reciprocation on her part before it's too late.

[Gunny376]

Never leave a lance coolie alone with the beer.. You should know better than that.

 

Where did Wantedbetter go?

 

HEY!!!!!!! What happen to all of the beer?????

[Gunny376]

Here I am. Very difficult to get to the board with the evening routine. I hope things will become a little more "normal" when school begins.

 

Lessee . . . . .when I bring up the issue about our intimacy levels my wife usually feels attacked/judged and it usually leads to a fight. So I really don't bring it up too much anymore. I really do try to choose my words wisely, but ultimately I am telling her that I'm not satisfied with our frequency. There was a recent article in the Sunday insert (I think they call them "Parade" magazine) saying that men who make love with their wives three or more times a week have a 50% lower risk of heart attack or stroke than men you make love less frequently. I showed that article to her and she frowned saying, "It's always about sex with you isn't it?"

 

She usually knows of my unhappiness after a rejection that tops two-three weeks of rejections . . . .when I will semi-explode with phrases like, "I'm tired of being your room-mate!" and I'll go sleep in another room.

 

At our age, we know several couples divorcing due to a husband's infidelity and those occasions will give us opportunities to talk. I'm careful to point out as we talk that I think a huge problem in the world is a mis-understanding with most folks between a "reason" and an "excuse" There are many REASONS we do the things we do, but most often . . . .there are no excuses.

 

I tell her I can understand the REASON for a man's infidelity to his wife if there is no physical intimacy between the two, especially if he's begged her, pleaded with her, tried to talk with her and explain his level of pain over the lack of intimacy . . . . .but if he chooses to cheat . . . there's no excuse. Strangely. she feel in on the side of and old Army buddy of mine that she knew "back in the day" who told us he hadn't made love with his wife in over ten months. His wife caught him on an "on-line" dating service trying to meet women and threw him out and was beginning the process of divorce. My wife, citing the lack of love-making, sided with my buddy!!!! Saying stuff like "Well, you don't really have a marriage then, do you?" Stuff like that!! I was amazed. Our friend said, "Well you guys just keep doing whatever it is you're doing to keep the sexual "magic" going because that's the PRIMARY way a man knows he's loved by his wife!" My wife glanced at me and I gave her a LOOK. She knew what I thought and in subsequent conversations over our friend's dilemma I basically let her know that there's only shades of grey between no love making for ten months and none for four-five-six weeks. If one partner's unhappy . . . .then no amount of wishing it wasn't so on the part of the other . . . is going to get that partner happy. As we all felt on those wedding days years ago . . . .our partner's going to have actually abide by their vows and MAKE their partners happy . . . .by meeting their needs in they way they define them. I try my utmost to do that everyday in the areas my wife tells me about . . . . . .I just need to see the reciprocation on her part before it's too late.

 

 

Turn on your PM, so I can,...............................PM you! Got something that might be of use to you, but LS won't let me link you to it!

[Walk]

Hey Wantedbetter.

 

I used to be like your wife when I was married. hubby always initiated sex. I had ultimate say in when or how frequent.

 

But the whole "sex as a need" thing NEVER made sense to me. Wasn't a need for me. It was something shared when I wasn't too tired or I was happy with him. ... well, basically when everything was just right. Then we had sex. Or if he wouldn't leave me alone about it, then I'd give in just to get him to go away.

 

My current bf though. totally different. We have tons of problems relating to sex. But from the get go it has been stressed that sex is a need. He says he has heard the phrase "its always about sex" from every single woman he's ever dated. And his reply "your damn right it is". He's not so one sided as this makes him sound, but in essence it's the truth. Sex makes him feel loved and valued. Like affection makes me feel loved and valued. But I swear to you, I had to have it hammered into my head. On a surface level I understood and could side with a guy not getting sex as a reason for not staying... but inside me I couldn't come to grips with WHY sex had to be the defining reason. Might be because women are so conditioned to stay away from the men who only want sex, who use us for it. Maybe because I was taught from birth that I shouldnt' want sex or have it. Maybe because I feel kind of violated while having sex if I dont' feel loved before hand. A million reasons for why I subconciously DON'T want a relationship that has sex as a key element in keeping it alive. Because no matter how much I logically understand it is... a portion of me really doesn't understand.

 

This really isn't any help.. but maybe you can kind of grasp how your wife feels/thinks in the more generic female sense.

 

Anyway, my bf and I fight all the fricken time about sex.. nothing new there. And not sure if he did this on purpose, or its just a by-product of his messed up head... but I do all the initiating in this relationship. I get rejected 9 times out of 10, and I can really feel your pain. It HURTS. The 6th, 7th time you put yourself out there, and get slapped away again... I just want to hide under the bed and scream "F you" over and over.

 

Howeve, my bf explains it like this.. that he needs physical intimacy in some form. It doesn't mean intercourse, but the idea of it needs to be kept alive. Honestly, the man would be happy having sex twice a month, as long as I am keeping the thought alive. So what if you changed the message that you're sending her slightly. Tell her that it's not "sex" your after. Not the wham bam thank you maam... but the desire in her to make you feel loved and appreciated. There's a hell of a lot more to sex then the act. It's a mentality, a certain feeling of being wanted and having the other person show/tell you that they want you to be happy and satisfied. And because she let this aspect fall so far out of her mind, that it causes you to feel unwanted and unloved. Not that you have to have intercourse... but if she would just try to show you she does want you to feel loved, and wants to make you happy. If she'd bring up sex more often, or surprise you once in a while by telling you to come to the bedroom with her. Try to think of ways that she could show she desires you that don't have to ultimately lead to sex. Like maybe she could just walk by and ask you to grab her butt. Or she could grab yours. Or run her hand along the front of your pants... a quick gesture to say "hey, I remember your a man and THIS is mine to use later." Doesn't have to lead directly to sex... its just a quick message of saying I'm thinking of you in that way.

 

My bf told me he doesnt' care if I never touch another dish, or piece of laundry for the rest of my life... he'll pay every bill and do every chore, if I will just ensure that the thought and energy of sex stays in our relationship. He's proven he'll meet my every need, as long as I do this one thing for him. And he means it. I've tested him on it, often. And this has helped prove to me that it's a need, and not a want.

 

So maybe before we say "I need sex" we have to define what sex means to us first. Then we can say what we need. For me, it's to feel desired, wanted, close... I need the touching of skin. Not just sitting next to him on the couch... I want him to want to do things that will make me feel good. Not just buy me trinkets... but to actually put EFFORT into trying to make me feel good. And that's what it all comes down to for me... Put in the EFFORT to show me I'm special to him.

 

Last thought... it might help if you also attempted to keep the idea of sex alive too. I think with the situation, maybe less would be more.... but a quick kiss and a "you look sexy today" might help.

 

Not sure that made sense.. or even if it applies. Also, if it's a medical problem... then no amount of talk is going to change anything. Even if she completely understands, she can't change how her body reacts or feels if it's chemical/biological reason.

[Walk]

Turn on your PM, so I can,...............................PM you! Got something that might be of use to you, but LS won't let me link you to it!

 

I don't think he has enough posts to have PM privledges yet. Have to have over a certain amount. Not sure what that is though. Probably says in the forum for questions about the site....

[wantedbetter]

Ok, Walk. You've got me confused. You say your bf kinda helped you comes to grips with men and our NEED for physical intimacy . . . . and it IS a NEED. And I'd be very sad if your first marriage failed over not realizing that . . .as mine may be.

 

And yet you say that he turns you down alot?!?!??! To me, it would seem that a man who felt just such a way, and who would make this expectation VERY clear from the start of a relationship, would NEVER be turning away opportunities to make love.

 

As a crusader in this battle to make women/wives aware of this (again, to ME) very simple way to to give your marriage the BEST shot at survival, one part of me is EXTREMELY happy, and is rejoicing, that you (at least ONE woman) does get IT. Though I'm very sad that you're experiencing the pain of rejection that so many of my married gender "compadres" experience on a daily basis.

 

To this day, I still expect some "thank you" notes to show up in my mailbox from some husbands I have never met, but helped, by taking a class with some of their wives. My study group would meet for coffee after class some times and me and this other guy talked in such a way that our female classmates were able to finally "see the light" so to speak.

 

Two ladies really did thank me for letting them hear just how men really do feel about sex. What was soooooooo amazing is that these women HAD to hear it from relative strangers than their own husbands . . .to believe it. It's like their husband were saying it, but their married brains were hearing . . ." I'm just a horny, sex-obessed pig and you should turn me away for my own good."

 

Running into these women years later they report "Gosh, now I really do LIKE sex. We're closer than ever. And I can ask him to get me a piece a cheese from the MOON and I know he's going to be on the phone to NASA trying to get on the next space shuttle, simply because he'll now do ANYTHING for his enthusiastic lover-wife"

 

And I shake my head, hearing these things, wondering why ALL couples wouldn't think that what I just described seems to sound like a WHOLE LOT better way to go through married life than the " Oh, you didn't please me so much today/this week . . . .guess what your not going to have tonight/ this week" model that so many more couples seem to embrace.

 

I really, truly just don't get it.

 

Your points on how you were raised as the typical American "good girl" are well taken. We have two daughters and are raising them to be good girls. You really have no choice as a parent today. However, what I have experienced in my married life, really, truly does make me want to take my daughters out for coffee when they're 18-19 and explain the "real deal" to them for the sake of their future marriages. It's like I have to let them know that, chances are, the men that they marry are really going to like/love having sex with them. I've GOT to let them know that when these men surrender their sexuality to my daughters under the fidelity vows they'll take in marriage, that my girls MUST take what's been surrendered to them with the UTMOST seriousness . . . .and to choose to not understand what been sworn to them by these men simply because they're women, and they don't feel they should have to, COULD be the biggest mistake they'll make in fulfilling their roles as an equal partner in the daily JOB of ensuring the health/success of the marriage.

 

At their young ages now, my wife would absolutely disembowel me if she heard anything slightly along the lines of ANYTHING that could possibly be intrepreted as "Hey, girls, for the sake of your future marriages, you've got to learn that getting into sex is a GOOD thing"

 

For a dad, who of course, is a male, it's a classic double-bind, double standard. But I do recognize my girls as being more than my little girls. I know, and hope, that someday they'll be married ladies, and I want more than anything for them to be HAPPILY married ladies.

 

WB

[Gunny376]

Good thread going here! I'm impressed!

 

An accutual dis-passionate, objective, rational and logical discussion about such an intimate subject bettween a man and a woman ~ less the hissing, he said-she said, BS, displaced of drawn gender battle lines? A rare thing, a rare thing indeed.

 

Much knowledge here! Much knowledge to be gained, here indeed! By all.

 

I'm too tired and have one too many San Migeul's under the belt to comment further, (Ha! You didn't get all the beer there Lance Cooley! They didn't just make me a Gunny for my natural good looks you know! That's why there are more Lance Corporals than Gunnys!)

 

And yea, Walk, I'm starting to see you talking the "talk" and walking the "walk" in your post. The P&V in your veins, and the "spit in your eye" attitude is shinning thorugh!

 

Keep this converstation going. There is much to be learned here!

[Walk]

Ok, Walk. You've got me confused. You say your bf kinda helped you comes to grips with men and our NEED for physical intimacy . . . . and it IS a NEED. And I'd be very sad if your first marriage failed over not realizing that . . .as mine may be.

And yet you say that he turns you down alot?!?!??!

 

Tell me about it. But if you had sex available on tap, and knew you'd never be turned down if you even hinted at it, it would lose it's... pull to you. Like when your hungry everything in the fridge looks good... but kind of full, and you get picky. You could take it or leave it.

 

I'm rather jealous about how cush your wife has it. I wish she'd walk a mile in my shoes and see how special she's got it. But then I'd have to kill her for sleeping with my man... so that really wouldn't work.

 

On the other hand. I can't tell you how absolutely freeing it is to know that my guy is rarely, or never, going to push me to have sex with him. He might yell and scream about how he isn't getting enough, or how we need to spice things up... but if i don't feel like having sex, then we don't. If I feel sick, or just mentally not in the right frame of mind. And I don't have someone pawing and groping at me. It's completely up to me when to initiate it. Kind of powerful in that approach. I have complete say over sex. How often, when, even if... I control every aspect of it. So in that sense, it's become more exciting to me because of the power and control I have with sex.

 

Hmm... this is probably not logical but.. I wonder if a portion of the problem lies in the fact that she no longer feels she is in control of sex. Her only control comes in denying it. Otherwise, she would feel you have ultimate control in sex, and that by having sex with her you are exerting that control and power. So to regain her power and control, she denies you what you want. The only way for her to exert control over how often and when you two will have sex is by denying you... and then occasionally allowing it. What if you flipped it around on her? That would probably take far too long for her to come back around to havign sex with you... But if she had to initiate in order to get her sexual needs met (and trust me, women do have sexual needs too), then that would reassert her power and control in the relationship. What if you completely stopped initiating all forms of sex with her?

 

Potentially re-establishing the balance of give and take.

 

that probaby didn't make sense. I haven't had enough coffee yet. Besides, that would take an incredibly long time to get her to realize you weren't going to push sex on her... to make her realize she had to come to you if she wanted sex and closeness. I suppose you could tell her the plan up front, see what she says, and if she'd be willing to try it. Maybe it'd only take a few months for her to feel more powerful in exerting her sexual influence then withholding it...

 

Whatever.... that was probably all hairbrained, sleeply and illogical.