Author noclobber Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 A friendship by definition is nonsexual. If we were attracted sexually to each other, we would date. If we are not, and still like each other enough to want to do things and be in each other's life, then I respect you disagree that it is possible, but I am experiencing a different scenerio. If you don't find the guy sexually attractive then how can you respect him? You are not even considering him as a sexual being and that's the worst possible insult a man can get from a woman. Link to post Share on other sites
Fun2BMe Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 You go out on trips, spend hours of your life and time with them b'cos you are getting something out of your friendships with them! That's why I said you are one of those women that "use" men in the name of friendships. You cannot respect them when you are using them. And what are those guys getting from your so called friendship? NOTHING!! So to enjoy someone means to be using them? To mutually enjoy going on trips and talking and hanging out means that we are using each other? If that's the case, I have been using my family and all of my friends my entire life. I did attempt to develop a deep and fulfilling relationship with a woman but everyone here in LS opened my eyes by saying that if I spend so much time with a woman and not getting sex then I am being ripped off. They are right!!!! Seriously why should a woman want to spend time with a guy if she is not getting anything out of it??? See, this is very very interesting how men and women differ. To a man, if you do not get sex out of a woman, there is no other use for her. To a woman, sex is not everything in a FRIENDSHIP. She will ideally want to be in a friendship arrangement with a man who also does not put sex above her other qualities - a fun travel companion, interesting conversationalist, a good friend who listens to all their problems and provides adivce and so on. When did I call you names? It's you that has been repeatedly calling me immature. You kept saying I must be unattractive to be in a sexless friendship with the opposite sex. You don't get it that some people who do not have sex together like to be with each other for other qualities they find worthwhile. According to you, that means they are using each other. I respectfully disagree. Just because I am strong enough to voice an opinion that is different from yours doesn't mean that I need to grow up. Go figure!!!!! Only the way you voice your opinion, which is by putting down the person who differs in their opinion. No I am not kidding. No I am not using my friends. No they are not gay. No I am not unattractive. I just have a different opinion than you. Link to post Share on other sites
Fun2BMe Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 If you don't find the guy sexually attractive then how can you respect him? You are not even considering him as a sexual being and that's the worst possible insult a man can get from a woman. So the only way someone is worth respecting is if they are found to be sexually attractive? What if someone is born without sexual organs? That means they can never gain the respect from the opposite sex, that all of their other qualities go out the window? The fact that he can overlook my outside beauty and find the treausures I hold inside and enjoy my company and ME for who I am nonsexually is the biggest compliment a man can give me. The fact that I can enjoy a man for his brains, conversations and not get bored being with him even if we are to be watching tv or doing nothing, is a huge compliment to him. I don't know how to explain this but it is the opposite of insult for someone to enjoy you for nonsexual reasons. I am secure enough to know that I am sexy. He is secure to know he is attractive. We don't have to have sex together to validate that. In a matter of seconds a woman can know if she is attracted or not to a man. If she still finds qualities worth keeping in contact with him and IF he too does not have sexual intentions, I do not see how either person is using the other. We choose not to consumate our friendship. There are a lot of other layers of each other we enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 If you don't find the guy sexually attractive then how can you respect him? This is the dumbest thing posted in this thread. Respect is to regard, to think highly of, to esteem. Just because you take it as an insult when a woman is not sexually attracted, it doesn't mean it is an insult. It just means there's no chemistry. Why is that so hard for you to accept? Link to post Share on other sites
climbergirl Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 This 'women and men can't be friends' is totally ridiculous. One of my best friends is male and we have been close/best friends for over 20 years. We've been through (separately) heartbreaking relationships, marriage/divorce, kids, change in careers........all the while keeping each other as sounding boards. Yes, we've had a relationship together and, yes, it was serious. But sometimes you find someone who makes you a better person for have knowing them AND to keep up the bond you two share is very important. A few months back, I was calling him endlessly w/ my relationship woes and he always answered and would talk for as long as I needed. He'd call me on my s*** because he knows me-in and out of a relationship-...tough love I suppose! He's never afraid to tell me exactly how I'm being a bitch and (possibly) over-analyzing any given aspect. He has no interest in sparing my feelings if I'm truly f***ing up the situation with my boyfriend. That is true friendship...........and how is this different than one with a female?? Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 So to enjoy someone means to be using them? To mutually enjoy going on trips and talking and hanging out means that we are using each other? If that's the case, I have been using my family and all of my friends my entire life. See, this is very very interesting how men and women differ. To a man, if you do not get sex out of a woman, there is no other use for her. To a woman, sex is not everything in a FRIENDSHIP. She will ideally want to be in a friendship arrangement with a man who also does not put sex above her other qualities - a fun travel companion, interesting conversationalist, a good friend who listens to all their problems and provides adivce and so on. You kept saying I must be unattractive to be in a sexless friendship with the opposite sex. You don't get it that some people who do not have sex together like to be with each other for other qualities they find worthwhile. According to you, that means they are using each other. I respectfully disagree. Only the way you voice your opinion, which is by putting down the person who differs in their opinion. No I am not kidding. No I am not using my friends. No they are not gay. No I am not unattractive. I just have a different opinion than you. Okay I know that you are thinking that I am an immature small kid... If one of your guy friends that you enjoy spending time with comes to LS and posts this thread -> "I have a close female friend... we hang out a lot, go on trips, movies, spend a lot of time with each other but we don't have sex" what do you think the response will be? Everyone will say that he is being ripped off by the female (you in this case). And those responses will come from men. I am saying this b'cos you think that I am the only guy that feels this way... nope I am not alone... Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 So the only way someone is worth respecting is if they are found to be sexually attractive? What if someone is born without sexual organs? That means they can never gain the respect from the opposite sex, that all of their other qualities go out the window? The fact that he can overlook my outside beauty and find the treausures I hold inside and enjoy my company and ME for who I am nonsexually is the biggest compliment a man can give me. The fact that I can enjoy a man for his brains, conversations and not get bored being with him even if we are to be watching tv or doing nothing, is a huge compliment to him. I don't know how to explain this but it is the opposite of insult for someone to enjoy you for nonsexual reasons. I am secure enough to know that I am sexy. He is secure to know he is attractive. We don't have to have sex together to validate that. In a matter of seconds a woman can know if she is attracted or not to a man. If she still finds qualities worth keeping in contact with him and IF he too does not have sexual intentions, I do not see how either person is using the other. We choose not to consumate our friendship. There are a lot of other layers of each other we enjoy. You have clearly said that a woman can decide within a few seconds whether she is attracted to a man or not.. and if she doesn't find him attractive enough to date then why would she still consider spending time with him? Why do you want to spend time around a person that you don't find attractive? You know why? B'cos you are using him at the emotional level... that's why!!! And how will you respect a guy that you are using? Just want to re-iterate Alphamale's golden words -> If a man spends so much time with a man and doesn't get sex then he is being ripped off by her. I can't agree more. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 A few months back, I was calling him endlessly w/ my relationship woes and he always answered and would talk for as long as I needed. :lmao: This is what I am telling again and again -> You are using him! He is a shoulder to cry on.... you are using him as an emotional tampon! You need one guy's shoulder to cry on and another guy's dick to ride on.. Go figure... Link to post Share on other sites
Yamaha Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 So the only way someone is worth respecting is if they are found to be sexually attractive? What if someone is born without sexual organs? That means they can never gain the respect from the opposite sex, that all of their other qualities go out the window? The fact that he can overlook my outside beauty and find the treausures I hold inside and enjoy my company and ME for who I am nonsexually is the biggest compliment a man can give me. The fact that I can enjoy a man for his brains, conversations and not get bored being with him even if we are to be watching tv or doing nothing, is a huge compliment to him. I don't know how to explain this but it is the opposite of insult for someone to enjoy you for nonsexual reasons. I am secure enough to know that I am sexy. He is secure to know he is attractive. We don't have to have sex together to validate that. In a matter of seconds a woman can know if she is attracted or not to a man. If she still finds qualities worth keeping in contact with him and IF he too does not have sexual intentions, I do not see how either person is using the other. We choose not to consummate our friendship. There are a lot of other layers of each other we enjoy. What you describe is what nocolobber thinks would make a good relationship between two people. He is having trouble thinking that 2 people can choose to en bark on a nonsexual relationship and just enjoy a friendship. Noclobber, women view friendships different than men. They can enjoy a guy friend and respect him and value his opinions but not see him in a sexual way. Men have a harder time with this concept in that if we get close to someone and we are attracted we want the friendship to develop into a romance. This is why you need to find out where you stand with a women in the beginning if you are attracted. If she is not then she has already put you in a friend category if she likes your personality. If you think that she will grow to see you in a sexual way you are mistaken. The sexual attraction is usually there or it is not. There is nothing wrong with male-female friendships if both parties want to enjoy platonic love. You just need to realize that if she is not sexually attracted to you she can be a friend and want nothing more from you. If you can't do this then don't be a friend. Just don't wait years being a friend and then spring your undying romantic love for her. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 The fact that he can overlook my outside beauty and find the treausures I hold inside and enjoy my company and ME for who I am nonsexually is the biggest compliment a man can give me. :laugh: Yeah right but then you will only go and sleep with the guy that compliments your body and is after that.... while the guy that saw YOU and not just your body will be called a friend Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 If she is not then she has already put you in a friend category if she likes your personality. That is the biggest insult a man can get! Just the way it sounds is disgusting in and itself... "I am going to put him in the friend category".. shyt.. There is nothing wrong with male-female friendships if both parties want to enjoy platonic love. Time and again it has been mentioned right here in LS that if a guy spends lot of time with a woman and not getting sex then he is being ripped off by her. Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Noclobber. Google 'Emotional Intelligence'. The 'men' you say who have posted junk like 1. It gives them an ego boost 2. They like the attention 3. They subconciously do not want their male "friend" to hook up with any other female 4. Its easy to take advantage of the male friend 5. Boredom 6. An easy date for any event when she's single don't have a very high EQ score, I'm guessing. You can choose to emulate these 'men'. Or you can choose to grow into a real man. Also Google 'self-actualization'. Link to post Share on other sites
Yamaha Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Not every women is going to be sexually attracted to you. You just have to find the one who is if you want a sexual relationship. The fact that she just wants to be friends isn't an insult unless you want more. If that is the case you just move on. Why is this such a difficult concept for you? You seem to have self esteem issues with yourself. Do you talk to women and not want a sexual relationship with them? Link to post Share on other sites
climbergirl Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 :lmao: This is what I am telling again and again -> You are using him! He is a shoulder to cry on.... you are using him as an emotional tampon! You need one guy's shoulder to cry on and another guy's dick to ride on.. Go figure... This would be very true........your statement..........if our friendship was one-sided. Lovely words.......'emotional tampon'....., but because I have heard an equal amount of 'angst' and emotional elation regarding his relationships why is it so difficult for you to conclude that we actually care about each other as a person? Dude, we've known each other since our teens.........we're both nearing or into our 40's. A little presumptuous for you to concise it into a 'one of you is only using the other'. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 Not every women is going to be sexually attracted to you. You just have to find the one who is if you want a sexual relationship. The fact that she just wants to be friends isn't an insult unless you want more. If that is the case you just move on. Why is this such a difficult concept for you? You seem to have self esteem issues with yourself. Do you talk to women and not want a sexual relationship with them? First, It's a difficult concept for me to understand b'cos right here on this forum it was repeatedly said that if a guy is friends with a woman and hangs out a lot with her without getting sex in return then he is being played. Agree or not? Second, Has it not been mentioned in this forum so many times that women hang-out with men without wanting to enter into a relationship with them because they are enjoying the attention given by the guy? Does it not mean that they are using the guy? This is really the toughest thing that Moai and myself find it difficult to explain. The girl keeps hanging around the guy saying friends... friends... she is not attracted to him but she spends so much time with him b'cos she is enjoying his attention and stroking her ego.. This happens at the emotional level and that's why its not so evident... This is just like a guy using a girl for sex and then backing away when she wants a relationship... far worse if he claims that he is not using her... Again... women are always the innocent victims in any situation... its the men that get blamed for everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So fun2Bme and other women are all innocent and correct.... I am the rotten guy and wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Fun2BMe Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 You have clearly said that a woman can decide within a few seconds whether she is attracted to a man or not.. and if she doesn't find him attractive enough to date then why would she still consider spending time with him? Why do you want to spend time around a person that you don't find attractive? You know why? B'cos you are using him at the emotional level... that's why!!! And how will you respect a guy that you are using? Just want to re-iterate Alphamale's golden words -> If a man spends so much time with a man and doesn't get sex then he is being ripped off by her. I can't agree more. I don't understand how I am using him. I don't understand how he is using me. They have never said they are interested in me sexually. I have never told them I am interested in them sexually. Trust me, we don't hold back anything from each other, especially after years of knowing each other. Please explain how we are using each other when we both are together to DO THINGS OTHER THAN sex together with. Both don't want children. I one day do. That and a lot of other factors make us uncompatible for dating and sexual relationship wise. Everything is out in the open. Please explain who is using who and for what specific reason. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 I don't understand how I am using him. I don't understand how he is using me. They have never said they are interested in me sexually. I have never told them I am interested in them sexually. Trust me, we don't hold back anything from each other, especially after years of knowing each other. Please explain how we are using each other when we both are together to DO THINGS OTHER THAN sex together with. Both don't want children. I one day do. That and a lot of other factors make us uncompatible for dating and sexual relationship wise. Everything is out in the open. Please explain who is using who and for what specific reason. Okay, what will you do if one of your guy friends says that he has feelings for you? Tell me all the things that you will do from that point on. Link to post Share on other sites
Fun2BMe Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 :laugh: Yeah right but then you will only go and sleep with the guy that compliments your body and is after that.... while the guy that saw YOU and not just your body will be called a friend The guy who mutually doesn't want to be in a sexual relationship with me for numerous reasons but who we both have a lot in common and like each other and want to share our time and activities with is my friend. The guy who I am sexually attracted to and who is sexually attracted to me and both mutually want a relationship for reasons that are above and beyond for sexual reasons we might date and try to develop something in that direction. I do not associate with shallow people who are after me only for my body. Sometimes it happens because I did not realize it and they were good liars but those don't last. Dozens of people I might not be attracted to sexually and they towards me but there might not be substance enough to be worth for them to take up any of my time. You make things so simplisitic. Life would be easy if I blindly folllowed this plus that must equal that rules without putting in innumerable other factors that always come into play. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 I don't understand how I am using him. Very simple! Don't you ever enjoy the attention that you get from him? Don't you get an ego boost from hanging out with your male friends? It's not evident b'cos its happening at the emotional level... Link to post Share on other sites
Fun2BMe Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Okay, what will you do if one of your guy friends says that he has feelings for you? Tell me all the things that you will do from that point on. I would tell him I feel differently and that we can be friends from there on out by phone and email only and not in person. I wouldn't want to be around him knowing his intentions are sexual and I am not about to return what he wants. It would be the end of the nonsexual friendship. Link to post Share on other sites
Fun2BMe Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Very simple! Don't you ever enjoy the attention that you get from him? Don't you get an ego boost from hanging out with your male friends? It's not evident b'cos its happening at the emotional level... No, I don't get an ego boost! Maybe you as a male get an ego boost being around women. I see him no differently than my female friends and I dono't get an ego boost around them either. They fulfill my needs emotionally and socially. I return it by making them fulfilled emotionally and socially as well by our conversations and going out and so on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 It would be the end of the nonsexual friendship. Why? So as soon as the guy wanted more you back off? You don't need him anymore? You can enjoy his attention all that you want but if he wants something you kick him to the curb? Where did your so called pure platonic friendship go at that point? You are willing to throw this guy just because he likes you a lot and you yap about friendships? Link to post Share on other sites
Author noclobber Posted June 1, 2006 Author Share Posted June 1, 2006 No, I don't get an ego boost! Typical female response (in other words, lies) I see him no differently than my female friends So you see him as a male girlfriend? Can there be an insult worse than this for a guy? They fulfill my needs emotionally and socially. This is exactly what I have been talking about all this time!!!!!!!! You are getting something from your guy friends at the emotional level!!!!!!!!! In other words you are using him emotionally!! Link to post Share on other sites
Fun2BMe Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 In fact, I find it to be the most fulfilling type of relationship. Most of my female friends are married with children. They have absolutely no time for me to be on the phone with them for hours, weeping over a guy who screwed me over or about the cute shoes I bought or whatever. Yes when I was younger I had more of those female friends who like me were single and available to go out and travel with but now they do those things with their spouses and children. The men I am friends with do not have wives and children either. They date other women. We can talk about everything, go out together, travel. No uncomfortable moments of wondering who is going to make a move or uncomfortable sexual tension. It is the ideal friendship that is very fulfilling, with a lot of things in common others don't have in common with me. I don't think you can relate to anything I am saying because you don't want a friendhsip with a female. You only see them useful as far as providing sex to you otherwise you see them as using you. Maybe you think women don't have anything else to offer but they are great listeners and companions among other things. Link to post Share on other sites
Fun2BMe Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Typical female response (in other words, lies) If I thought all men were liars, I would not associate with them much less want to have sex with them. If you hate women, I mean how could you like someone who is a liar, then why are you even sweating any of this? If you read any of my other threads you will see I have no ego problems but I think you prefer to be judgemental and make up your mind about someone based on your personal beliefs rather than getting to know them. So you see him as a male girlfriend? Can there be an insult worse than this for a guy? Maybe if you feel insecure about your sexuality you will find this insulting. My brother grew up with a lot of sisters and can relate to and respect them. I jokingly refer to him as my girlfriend. He is extremely outspoken and has never been insulted. He gets off on how well he can relate to women and how they like being around him. This is exactly what I have been talking about all this time!!!!!!!! You are getting something from your guy friends at the emotional level!!!!!!!!! In other words you are using him emotionally!! Please read the following sentence I wrote when I say that they too get their emotional and social needs fulfilled by me. If they didn't, they wouldn't be in an unfulfilling one sided friendship with me. But go ahead, tell me they are lying when they say they had a great time at the concert with me and they email pictures and we repeat everything we do for years and years. Link to post Share on other sites
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