Perspective

[Wiseman2]

As long as you are trapped in your incels world and incels brainwashing, you will feel like you are on the outside looking in. Incels breed entitlement. Such as things should just fall in your lap. Or everyone else has it so easy. 

[ZA Dater]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

As long as you are trapped in your incels world and incels brainwashing, you will feel like you are on the outside looking in. Incels breed entitlement. Such as things should just fall in your lap. Or everyone else has it so easy. 

Guess what a lot of people do have it easier, there is no debate to that. It's cool I can sit on my own having breakfast, I can go walking on my own , do everything my own and I can lament everything on my own too.

Just maybe for 10 minutes every so often I can sit with someone I really like. Is that so bad.

[Gaeta]

10 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

but if the best I can do is a coffee every few months to me thats better than trying to find someone as ugly as me attractive

Really! It's everything or nothing with you. 

[Weezy1973]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Again I'm born ugly I like attractive people so I guess I am pretty much in no man's land.

Yup, pretty much. Although having seen your picture I’d argue you’re average but like attractive people. 
 

And unfortunately that really just how it is for some folks in one way or another. You can love the taste of junk food, but want a healthy body. Except you don’t like the taste of healthy food. So what do you do? You’re faced with two bad options. And that’s reality for some people. Or you’re attracted to emotionally unavailable men, but you also want to have a family. The men that would make great fathers and husbands you don’t find attractive. So what do you do? Only bad options. Reality do some folks. 
 

I’ve always argued that exclusively fixing your sights on women that aren’t attracted to you is a defense mechanism. You’ll never date them, so that way you never get rejected. And you can still complain on here all you want.

[ZA Dater]

13 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Really! It's everything or nothing with you. 

I'd say it's a severe compromise on my part to have just a little of what I actually like. For me nothing would be dating someone I need to force myself to find attractive, there is no positive in that scenario.

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yup, pretty much. Although having seen your picture I’d argue you’re average but like attractive people. 
 

And unfortunately that really just how it is for some folks in one way or another. You can love the taste of junk food, but want a healthy body. Except you don’t like the taste of healthy food. So what do you do? You’re faced with two bad options. And that’s reality for some people. Or you’re attracted to emotionally unavailable men, but you also want to have a family. The men that would make great fathers and husbands you don’t find attractive. So what do you do? Only bad options. Reality do some folks. 
 

I’ve always argued that exclusively fixing your sights on women that aren’t attracted to you is a defense mechanism. You’ll never date them, so that way you never get rejected. And you can still complain on here all you want.

Oh well at least I can count on honesty, wish I'd have more of this growing up. No for me I like people I can engage with and who I'd want a physical relationship with.  

My hope has always been I'd find that just once, experience that just once, I still hope that but it's fading. It's very very hard each day to lie to everyone around me that I feel ok when I really do not but then when I open up.i get told it's all.easy because he finds it easy and suddenly my lack of dates is the same as some breakup he had, less than a month later he found someone else he really liked who dated him. But as you say it's different for attractive people.

[basil67]

14 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

As you say I like what I like no getting away from that. Just need to make the best of it whatever I can get I suppose be it a good conversation. I'll just keep inviting this person to events which she seems to like and accept that's the best I can do and once again rue ever believing I had a chance at more than that.

Sure you like what you like.  But don't go pitching your desires as being the same as everyone else's and then moan about being eternally single. 

When it comes to what other men like, most are more flexible than you and this would be a large reason why they have dating success.   Oh, and they understand about not punching above their weight and they don't spend their lives single and complaining about not having their needs met.

[basil67]

On 3/21/2024 at 7:40 AM, ZA Dater said:

Not through my own choice.

Yes, it is your own choice.  You've had plenty of women express interest in you, but you've rejected all of them

[FredEire]

You're like a dog chasing it's own tail. Literally what is the point?

We're all going to die one day, maybe we'd be justified to curl up into a ball and cry until our time comes.

But why do that? Instead you can enjoy the ride, focus on what you enjoy doing and forget about the bs. If you think dating is pointless fine, take your focus off it and forget about it for a while. Ironically it might actually help you as things will flow more naturally.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My bar is tall (5.8 being my version of tall for reference) and slim, gainfully employed, well spoken,intelligent and no kids. I really do not think those basic requirements are unrealistic.

 

Google tells me that the average height for women in South Africa is just shy of 5.2.  This makes your height requirement hugely unrealistic.  

[BaileyB]

I can’t actually believe that we are back to this same discussion…

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

If I do not find them attractive no amount of time with them will make them attractive, this is the unfortunate reality, for years I went out with anyone who would frankly go out with me and that was the mentality I had, to see if I could look past a lack of physical attraction. It never happened like that and what was worse I had to reject a few people and I did not feel good about that at all. While I do not like being rejected, I especially dislike having to reject others.

My bar is not high because I have met people who I do find attractive so I am not making an impossible list of criteria nobody can possible meet.

Re single mothers, I am not particularly fond of kids to be truthful, if they were my kids I'd feel differently I am sure.

As for honestly, the last time I brought this up on a date I was told "you lack experience you need to find someone as inexperienced as you to get practice" so no its better to try pretend all is well because who wants damaged goods when they do not have to have damaged goods.

 

 

Honestly, what you’re saying here just sounds strange and almost alien to me. I wasn’t talking about physical attraction, in fact I think you’re doing those things in some sort of a reversed order. Physical attraction is normally the first thing you feel. It’s the signal, the starting point. There is mutual physical attraction, chemistry, sympathy, call it what you like, and then you take it from there. It’s the period after that initial phase of physical attraction, building a relationship, that people usually find challenging. I’d never think of coming with a list of requirements and then select candidates, it’s just weird. It’s like you’re thinking too much instead of just feeling. 

Edited March 21 by Gebidozo

[Gebidozo]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

She does not find me attractive. She makes zero effort to communicate with me. Even I am not that stupid to think an action like that conveys any sort of interest at all. Factually she is not on my level, she can have whatever guy she wants. She is attractive and marketable and I am not.  The conversations I have with her are wide ranging, family, life etc. Does not make any difference. I try arrange meet up, she cancels because has friends she wants to see. How does any of this convey any interest at all?

 

What are you talking about… There are no “levels” in love. There are no people who could “have whatever guy” or “whatever girl”, it’s a gross, cartoonish oversimplification. “Marketable” is just a terrible word to use when discussing romance. We aren’t wares.

You’ve made a list of artificial requirements and now trying to squeeze real-life women into it. That’s not how it works.
 

[Gebidozo]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Guess what a lot of people do have it easier, there is no debate to that. It's cool I can sit on my own having breakfast, I can go walking on my own , do everything my own and I can lament everything on my own too.

Just maybe for 10 minutes every so often I can sit with someone I really like. Is that so bad.

You see, it’s this attitude of yours that repels women, this whole melodramatic “lament everything” mentality. Wallowing in self-pity isn’t going to get you anywhere. Women like confident men who woo them. You can do that, but you’ll need to get away from that horrible incel thinking.

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Again I suppose the perspective of someone who has fallen in love will be different to someone who has not. 

I'd imagine you have trouble falling in love because of your tendency to think about yourself incessantly. 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Just maybe for 10 minutes every so often I can sit with someone I really like. Is that so bad.

It's pathetic to hear you complaining about this

You could easily find someone you really like to chat with for 10 minutes every so often, but based on your previous posts, you only want female friends who are attractive.  So yes, this is bad.  And shallow and horrible.  

 

[Acacia98]

6 hours ago, Gaeta said:

I bet if you found that perfect woman and she loved you, you would be filled with so much insecurities, because you see yourself as less,  that the relationship would be doomed. 

I wouldn't be surprised if this happened.

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Re single mothers, I am not particularly fond of kids to be truthful, if they were my kids I'd feel differently I am sure.

(...)

As for honestly, the last time I brought this up on a date I was told "you lack experience you need to find someone as inexperienced as you to get practice" so no its better to try pretend all is well because who wants damaged goods when they do not have to have damaged goods.

I think people who opt not to date single parents are doing them a huge favor by not wasting their time. If there's no room in your heart or life for someone else's kid, it's good to be aware of that and to let that guide your dating choices. Moreover, single parents should be careful about who they date. They really shouldn't date people who are bound to resent their kids or view them as a burden/competition. And they shouldn't date people who treat them like they're doing them a favor by dating them. Your friend was definitely giving you lousy advice on this matter.

---

Are you actually calling yourself "damaged goods"? How ridiculous is that?

18 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I am definitely not a victim. It just is what it is. I look how I look and I am what I am and I like what I like. You tell me this, when you meet people, heck I manage to overcome being awkward and shy, the conversation flows and yet no interest, you add this up over say 20 years and imagine how that feels. You cannot say all of that is my fault.

Nah... At some level you derive satisfaction from feeling sorry for yourself.

Think about this: We're you not in a relationship either last year or the year before? So how can you claim no one is interested in you? Why are you writing as if that experience didn't occur?

[Gebidozo]

1 hour ago, Acacia98 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if this happened.

I think people who opt not to date single parents are doing them a huge favor by not wasting their time. If there's no room in your heart or life for someone else's kid, it's good to be aware of that and to let that guide your dating choices. Moreover, single parents should be careful about who they date. They really shouldn't date people who are bound to resent their kids or view them as a burden/competition. And they shouldn't date people who treat them like they're doing them a favor by dating them. Your friend was definitely giving you lousy advice on this matter.

---

Are you actually calling yourself "damaged goods"? How ridiculous is that?

Nah... At some level you derive satisfaction from feeling sorry for yourself.

Think about this: We're you not in a relationship either last year or the year before? So how can you claim no one is interested in you? Why are you writing as if that experience didn't occur?

It looks like the OP’s entire approach to romantic relationship is based on some sort of a mercantile, monetary mentality. “Damaged goods”, “marketable”, etc., these are words from an incel vocabulary, the speech of someone who views human beings as wares, possessing “values” which have nothing to do with real human values. His reluctance to date single mothers appears to stem from the same kind of thinking. It’s possible that he views single mothers as someone whose “value” has decreased.

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

Google tells me that the average height for women in South Africa is just shy of 5.2.  This makes your height requirement hugely unrealistic.  

I see plenty of taller people every day so no it's not unrealistic at all. 

[basil67]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

I see plenty of taller people every day so no it's not unrealistic at all. 

And how's that working for you?

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

What are you talking about… There are no “levels” in love. There are no people who could “have whatever guy” or “whatever girl”, it’s a gross, cartoonish oversimplification. “Marketable” is just a terrible word to use when discussing romance. We aren’t wares.

You’ve made a list of artificial requirements and now trying to squeeze real-life women into it. That’s not how it works.
 

No what I like is actually based on people I have met not some imaginary list. I strongly disagree there are many people who get to choose many many people in fact. 

 

[ZA Dater]

Just now, basil67 said:

And how's that working for you?

It's good window shopping. Which is pretty much all I can do, I am not their type and actually in some ways this is good because I don't want what I know I can't have.

Every so often though as now I meet someone and think well I really like you maybe I could....it's a nice feeling this possibility but inevitably reality hits like a brick to the head and I land up feeling useless.

Then I get friends trying to make me feel better but actually making me feel worse.

[Gebidozo]

22 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

No what I like is actually based on people I have met not some imaginary list. I strongly disagree there are many people who get to choose many many people in fact. 

 

What you like has nothing to do with people. You first create artificial requirements and then go looking for people who correspond to them. That will never work. You should first like a person, then ask yourself “what exactly do I like in her?”, then you can make a list of what makes HER, that specific woman you’ve liked, so appealing to you. And then you can check whether she corresponds to your preferences. Which shouldn’t be something like “tall, slim, and childless” anyway, but more like “having similar worldview as myself, having common interests, kind, unlikely to cheat, great in bed” and whatnot.

Nobody “gets to choose” anything. People meet and sometimes there is a spark, an attraction, a feeling, and magic happens. You don’t just walk around a warehouse choosing things. Romance isn’t shopping. 

[Gebidozo]

29 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It's good window shopping. Which is pretty much all I can do, I am not their type and actually in some ways this is good because I don't want what I know I can't have.

Every so often though as now I meet someone and think well I really like you maybe I could....it's a nice feeling this possibility but inevitably reality hits like a brick to the head and I land up feeling useless.

Then I get friends trying to make me feel better but actually making me feel worse.

Well, look at that - I just unfavorably compared your romantic attitude to shopping, and a second later I notice your post where you readily admit it😪

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, Gebidozo said:

What you like has nothing to do with people. You first create artificial requirements and then go looking for people who correspond to them. That will never work. You should first like a person, then ask yourself “what exactly do I like in her?”, then you can make a list of what makes HER, that specific woman you’ve liked, so appealing to you. And then you can check whether she corresponds to your preferences. Which shouldn’t be something like “tall, slim, and childless” anyway, but more like “having similar worldview as myself, having common interests, kind, unlikely to cheat, great in bed” and whatnot.

Nobody “gets to choose” anything. People meet and sometimes there is a spark, an attraction, a feeling, and magic happens. You don’t just walk around a warehouse choosing things. Romance isn’t shopping. 

Well I never mind mutual attraction then if you want to put it that way. Others seemingly find this. I know exactly what I find appealing, those basic requirements are still valid. Kids will be a complete deal breaker irrespective of anything else. 

I also find find confident people attractive and by that they are usually outgoing. 

Ultimately I land up in a situation where sure I find people attractive, enjoy their company but as has happened now and always happens they are not interested in me. Fine enough no problem but inevitably I get to see the people they are interested in and it makes sense why I am of no interest.