Coffee Date

[basil67]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 Oddly enough I do not know many [non player relationship oriented guys] but I know plenty of guys who get more attention than what they know what to do with. 

I find it very surprising that you don't know many guys who are in a long term relationship/marriage.   Not even men you work with?  Family members?  

[Weezy1973]

8 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I find it very surprising that you don't know many guys who are in a long term relationship/marriage.   Not even men you work with?  Family members?  

And the only women he knows that are single and looking to get married and start a family are religious. He lives a very sheltered life.

[Prudence V]

On 5/31/2021 at 9:25 AM, ZA Dater said:

On one you hand its great for material resources and on the other you decry material so called glitz.....the two go together like avocado and toast. One invariably follows the other..

Seriously? Either you have totally misunderstood my point, or you have a bizarre value system. 
 

Cape Town is a very beautiful city, offering a wealth of opportunities for a great life - for people who are white, are employed, have some disposable income, and some other characteristics relating to other capitals (social - having a good support system; cultural - speaking English “well”, having the “right accent”, etc; ). For people who are not so lucky, it is an unforgiving city - homeless people are criminalised for being homeless; poor people struggle; black people are still fighting systemic discrimination in compound ways - and so it’s not universally “beautiful” or “full of opportunities” for everyone. Living there, you would know that. Because you are in the former group - white, employed, with disposable income, with cultural capital etc - you have access to those opportunities. That was my point. 
 

You equate that with “glitz”, as if that was the natural consequence, like “avocado and toast”. That doesn’t follow at all. Many people who fall into that former group with you - those who have opportunities - are not seduced by glitz, and do not adorn their lives with it. They live modestly, don’t drive flashy cars or wear flashy watches, don’t go to exclusive nightlife venues or on expensive holidays. Their values are such that what bring them pleasure doesn’t involve the exchange of large wads of money - a drive along Chapmans Peak, a stroll along Llandudno beach with a partner, sundowners at the Brass Bell with friends, whale watching at Hermanus... minimal resources required, because it’s the human connection and the appreciation of surroundings that matters, not the parade of wealth. 
 

(And I recognise that this is all relative - to an unemployed person, even those things are out of their reach, and may seem like flaunting wealth.)

 

[Prudence V]

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I can sit down and out debate many people, does that get me a date

Please stop with this already, like being able to debate is some kind of asset. It’s not. It’s off-putting and possibly one of the reasons you don’t succeed with dating. 

No one  wants to debate on a date. Nor does anyone want to watch someone else debating. Pretty much 99.99999999999% of people will find any excuse to rush out of there like their house is on fire. 
 

To most people, debating signals (at least) one of two things:

1) Conflict. It’s not harmonious, it’s oppositional, it suggests a lack of compatibility - and so a date isn’t going to waste her time on someone who is not fundamentally compatible.

2) Competition. Debating is about winning arguments, about winning. About proving oneself better, smarter, better informed. No one (of substance; models and the glitz-lovers are different) likes a show-off. No one, once you finish high school, is impressed by “smart”. 

I’m also on the spectrum, so I get the enjoyment of debate. I can debate - love to debate, and will spend hours doing so: with good friends who also enjoy this, never in a “romantic” (or wannabe-romantic) context. It’s a passion killer. Surefire way to get disqualified as a romantic interest. “Conventions of appropriateness”, as they say - learn what behaviour is appropriate in what context. Save your debating for the safe space with good friends. That’s not what a date wants. 

[basil67]

@ZA DaterI missed the debating comment.   No, it will absolutely not get you a date.  

Out of curiosity, you do you see view discussions here as debate?

[NeurodivergentMe]

On 5/9/2021 at 8:48 PM, ZA Dater said:

After much encouragement and help from users here, against my better judgement I went on this date. Perhaps the one attractive match I had from Tinder in 5 odd years.

Things looked good, she does not drink, she is into healthy living, is a life coach, models. We did not chat a lot before meeting up which I think helped  and the location was great , small cafe near the ocean.

My objective here was to try and do better bearing in mind the encouragement I received but I was also cautious because well I know these never end up with great outcomes. The date itself went well, for once I was complimented, asked questions and we chatted well. The downside is I realised I was never going to measure up to what she actually wanted, this is typical though so I took it on the chin. We got along well and the conversation went well, we have a few things in common,  some beliefs in common and I did find her attractive which for me is rather rare.

And so it was with a text this morning "I have come out of a relationship and not looking for anything and it was good meeting you and if you are OK with friends we could be friends". For me this basically just means there were not attraction, nobody goes onto Tinder to find friends, they go to find partners so this is just a nice way of rejecting me. Do I once again go down the useless friend road or do I just walk away?

 

I would honestly just move on. When you say that there aren’t many people you are attracted to, do you mean that you’re grey sexual?

[Not So Sad II]

13 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I do not resent players for what its worth, I understand why the play the system the way they do, it works for them, they get the attention they want, they get to spin nonsense they get the sex they want and they move on without having to add any value at all. Sometimes I wish I was like them purely because it must be nice to get some attention and be wanted but then I realise I have none of their attributes.

I go out to try keep fit and lean and I make sure I keep up to date with what is going on around me, my inherent mantra is to try do something good each day of the benefit of someone else. Spending time with A everything that was good about me worked in that situation, I could just be me and it worked, I got lots of attention back, far more intellectual stimulation that I had before and you know what most days I get someone asking me how my day is going and sharing what they are up to. That situation proved I can actually be a person of use if not one of attraction as has always been the case really, its telling at social events the other guys get hugged and ladies shake my hand, that does not go unnoticed and that tells me a lot.

My dating goals are

1: Find someone who I find really attractive on all levels, which according to this forum is impossible.

2: Try and get some sort of a win out the situation

3: Maybe actually get kissed properly 

That is all I am really looking for. A, K and a few others just fill some of the void of what I do not have and I am thankful they at least see some good in me. 

You remind me of my male friend, except he is now in his fifties. he did have a girlfriend, a very nice one, about 12 years back, I think they were together for 3 or 4 years.  But she gave him an ultimatum - they get married or she leaves.  And he has this thing about just wanting a fun, happy relationship with no commitment, so she left.  And now he can't find anyone at all.  He would very much like to date me, but he just doesn't do it for me.

The point is not about marriage but appreciating that you have to give the other person in the relationship reasons, incentives, if you like, to be with you.  You seem fairly mature ie late thirties or forties, so unless you date much younger, most women your age will be looking for a man to settle down with, get married, have children, etc.  Otherwise, there isn't much point in getting involved with you.  Even younger women, you would have to be very attractive and fun to be with for them to spend much time with as opposed to men their own age.

I can't really see what you're bringing to the table.  No-one wants a debater, and anyway, you seem to think that arguing on the internet is debating, when many people actually get paid to do it properly and are trained in it.  The definition of stupid is making the same mistake over and over again.  You seem to have very high self worth but you evidence it by being critical about an entire sex instead of doing something different.  Men on the make - ie men who only assess you in terms of a dating prospect are very tiresome to be around.  I automatically give them a swerve even socially.  

Whatever it is, you aren't bringing enough to the table to attract a woman of the high calibre you describe, so you might have to do what a lot of men do and settle for someone how can I say, slightly less desirable.  Many men seem happy with that.  In some ways, I admire your high standards but you must realise that as times goes on, the most desirable women are snapped up and aren't single any longer.  Perhaps its different in Cape Town, but the most desirable women aren't on online dating where I live.  They meet partners through mutual friends, through sports and hobbies, on activity weekends or vacations, etc..  Also, where I live, its actually considered a good thing by many men for a woman to be quite plain, not too high achieving or independent, I guess because she's less likely to be picky about who she dates and also maybe to put up with a man with faults!  (one of my friends actually got dumped recently and the reason given was "You're not plain enough"!

But yes, maybe have a think about what you're bringing to the table, because I think you're maybe aiming too high and also coming across as a possibly a bit too pushy or even aggressive at times.

[Prudence V]

13 minutes ago, Not So Sad II said:

Perhaps its different in Cape Town

It’s not

13 minutes ago, Not So Sad II said:

but the most desirable women aren't on online dating

Nor in CT. Certainly among people I know (of all “races”, not just the white, moneyed pool OP is fishing in) OLD is for those who don’t have options F2F - those stuck at home because they can’t find work, those who can’t go out and socialise because of mental or physical health issues, those with very strict parents who won’t let them socialise, etc - because those who do have options F2F prefer those above the possibility of being catfished or falling victim to an axe murderer. 
 

Every single person I’ve had a romantic relationship / arrangement with, has been met in a work / professional context, for example. Others meet people through friends, at university, through hobbies / sports / outdoor pursuits like hiking or surfing, or through other communities of interest (churches, fandoms, summer schools or public lectures, etc). I don’t know a single person who met a partner (other than fleeting “hookup” type arrangements) in a bar or club or such place, but then I don’t hang out with people who spend much time in places like that. 

[Prudence V]

47 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I missed the debating comment.

🤣🤣🤣 Not sure how you managed that - OP manages to smuggle it into at least one out of every 3 replies, on this thread and his others, like it’s a badge of honour. I was trying to be chill about it, but my tolerance snapped 🥺 after too many references. 
 

OP, what do you imagine women enjoy, on a date? Let’s see if we can help out here. I’m not sure you’re altogether pitching to the right target. 
 

(For example, you speak frequently about being “kind” and “dependable” - that’s great, those are real assets - but that’s not what you showcase on Date 1. That’s stuff to showcase on Date 3 or more, when she’s already interested and is deciding whether you’re a “keeper” or a fling. Kind, dependable, etc will tip the balance and make you “partner” rather than “hookup” material - but you’ve first got to get her interested in Date 2 and Date 3. Otherwise - it’s straight to the friend zone. )

Edited June 1, 2021 by Prudence V
Missing bracket

[elaine567]

27 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

OLD is for those who don’t have options F2F

And that is why ZA Dater is on OLD. His work does not generate options nor do his hobbies, he has few friends and those he has are the "player" types he speaks about. I guess due to him being a fan of supercars, he comes up against models and other hangers on, attracted to the super rich, but these women are looking for bigger fish than ZA Dater...
His other hobbies are more solo pursuits.
All in all he never really meets any suitable woman IRL, hence the need for OLD.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Seriously? Either you have totally misunderstood my point, or you have a bizarre value system. 
 

Cape Town is a very beautiful city, offering a wealth of opportunities for a great life - for people who are white, are employed, have some disposable income, and some other characteristics relating to other capitals (social - having a good support system; cultural - speaking English “well”, having the “right accent”, etc; ). For people who are not so lucky, it is an unforgiving city - homeless people are criminalised for being homeless; poor people struggle; black people are still fighting systemic discrimination in compound ways - and so it’s not universally “beautiful” or “full of opportunities” for everyone. Living there, you would know that. Because you are in the former group - white, employed, with disposable income, with cultural capital etc - you have access to those opportunities. That was my point. 
 

You equate that with “glitz”, as if that was the natural consequence, like “avocado and toast”. That doesn’t follow at all. Many people who fall into that former group with you - those who have opportunities - are not seduced by glitz, and do not adorn their lives with it. They live modestly, don’t drive flashy cars or wear flashy watches, don’t go to exclusive nightlife venues or on expensive holidays. Their values are such that what bring them pleasure doesn’t involve the exchange of large wads of money - a drive along Chapmans Peak, a stroll along Llandudno beach with a partner, sundowners at the Brass Bell with friends, whale watching at Hermanus... minimal resources required, because it’s the human connection and the appreciation of surroundings that matters, not the parade of wealth. 
 

(And I recognise that this is all relative - to an unemployed person, even those things are out of their reach, and may seem like flaunting wealth.)

 

I do not disagree with you at all and for FYI for many years my chose method of transportation was the rail system and I suspect you have an idea what it is like. I enjoyed it because everyone was the same, from gangsters to me in corporate wear, guess what we all communicated and I try to live in terms of that famous poem "If".

Lots of people like glitz that cannot be ignored and yes I agree you list many great activities, ones I enjoy too. Unfortunately my experience on OLD is these are seldom deemed to be enough, we all simply want human connection at the end of the day.

For what it is worth I am on fairly near first name basis with many of the people I see standing at traffic lights begging, I am not different to anyone else in that we are all human beings and all deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. Its how I perceive the lack of respect in the dating world that does not help, for me walking a lady to her car is a must, phoning to check she got home ok, that is a must, opening a door that is must, NEVER letting them pay unless they absolutely want to split the bill, picking venues which are more convenient to them. Yet, I then go out and I see that in reality none of this seems to count very much because ol whatever turns up with the Porsche, his ego the size to table mountain, orders up a whole tons of drinks, walk around like he owns the place, flirts around, laughs and I guess call it seduce but does he really care that much or is he after his own gratification.

Maybe I am wrong and that is required but its a very big stretch from what I deem to be common manner, but again maybe I am wrong. Wrong to want to actually try get to know people I find attractive before I want to sleep with them.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Please stop with this already, like being able to debate is some kind of asset. It’s not. It’s off-putting and possibly one of the reasons you don’t succeed with dating. 

No one  wants to debate on a date. Nor does anyone want to watch someone else debating. Pretty much 99.99999999999% of people will find any excuse to rush out of there like their house is on fire. 
 

To most people, debating signals (at least) one of two things:

1) Conflict. It’s not harmonious, it’s oppositional, it suggests a lack of compatibility - and so a date isn’t going to waste her time on someone who is not fundamentally compatible.

2) Competition. Debating is about winning arguments, about winning. About proving oneself better, smarter, better informed. No one (of substance; models and the glitz-lovers are different) likes a show-off. No one, once you finish high school, is impressed by “smart”. 

I’m also on the spectrum, so I get the enjoyment of debate. I can debate - love to debate, and will spend hours doing so: with good friends who also enjoy this, never in a “romantic” (or wannabe-romantic) context. It’s a passion killer. Surefire way to get disqualified as a romantic interest. “Conventions of appropriateness”, as they say - learn what behaviour is appropriate in what context. Save your debating for the safe space with good friends. That’s not what a date wants. 

Oh dear then there is nothing impressive about me

Well I once sat for 3 hours with an au pair chatting about her job, I once sat for another 2 hours listening to someone tell me in minute detail about a job interview or another one tell me about a lecture she had given, I guess these are exiting passionate dating topics. I do not enjoy sitting there conducting effectively an interview because there is nothing to talk about or sitting there and being asked nothing about myself. If that is what dating is about then I am better off sitting at home.

I like to try and find out what people are passionate about and what they enjoy doing but even this seems to be a big no no, it would appear all one really should do is apparently flirt which for the most part seems to entail manufacturing absolute nonsense or perhaps banter which I can do some of the time if there the other person can.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Prudence V said:

It’s not

Nor in CT. Certainly among people I know (of all “races”, not just the white, moneyed pool OP is fishing in) OLD is for those who don’t have options F2F - those stuck at home because they can’t find work, those who can’t go out and socialise because of mental or physical health issues, those with very strict parents who won’t let them socialise, etc - because those who do have options F2F prefer those above the possibility of being catfished or falling victim to an axe murderer. 
 

Every single person I’ve had a romantic relationship / arrangement with, has been met in a work / professional context, for example. Others meet people through friends, at university, through hobbies / sports / outdoor pursuits like hiking or surfing, or through other communities of interest (churches, fandoms, summer schools or public lectures, etc). I don’t know a single person who met a partner (other than fleeting “hookup” type arrangements) in a bar or club or such place, but then I don’t hang out with people who spend much time in places like that. 

Well yes some of us are not as fortunate to have those opportunities and have to rely on OLD. Work context is something I would not do even if there were opportunities there, which there are not because of the numerous pitfalls. You wont find me disagreeing re meeting people via friends but again its not so easy to find friends at the age of 37, actually very difficult to be frank. 

 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Prudence V said:

🤣🤣🤣 Not sure how you managed that - OP manages to smuggle it into at least one out of every 3 replies, on this thread and his others, like it’s a badge of honour. I was trying to be chill about it, but my tolerance snapped 🥺 after too many references. 
 

OP, what do you imagine women enjoy, on a date? Let’s see if we can help out here. I’m not sure you’re altogether pitching to the right target. 
 

(For example, you speak frequently about being “kind” and “dependable” - that’s great, those are real assets - but that’s not what you showcase on Date 1. That’s stuff to showcase on Date 3 or more, when she’s already interested and is deciding whether you’re a “keeper” or a fling. Kind, dependable, etc will tip the balance and make you “partner” rather than “hookup” material - but you’ve first got to get her interested in Date 2 and Date 3. Otherwise - it’s straight to the friend zone. )

Well I truly do not know. Seemingly themselves most of the time evidenced by the near total lack of interest in anything about me, sure I'll sit and talk about their pets, jobs, siblings and any other topic they choose but mostly I'd like to figure out what they believe and what their values are plus what they are passionate about, however most of the time these dates just descend into interviews of sorts with very little to actually interest me. 

My perception is perhaps the guy needs be like a clown, get her to laugh, fine enough, I am happy to be laughed at. Thrown endless mostly false compliments, sell himself why she should pick him laughing aside the other two do not interest me a great deal, especially when neither is ever reciprocated. I'd also love to know whether at any point she has to put in any work to get me interested or is this one way traffic.

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, basil67 said:

I missed the debating comment.   No, it will absolutely not get you a date.  

I caught it. No, it will most definitely not get you a date. No woman wants to “debate” her partner on a date. 

It will however, earn you multiple threads on loveshack (the latest having again surpassed the 20 page mark).  Which would be well and good, if OP wasn’t simply rehashing the same talking points at length.

 

[BaileyB]

46 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Seemingly themselves most of the time evidenced by the near total lack of interest in anything about me, sure I'll sit and talk about their pets, jobs, siblings and any other topic they choose but mostly I'd like to figure out what they believe and what their values are plus what they are passionate about, however most of the time these dates just descend into interviews of sorts with very little to actually interest me. 

If one is a good conversationalist, it won’t descend to a interview of sorts. Although, there is merit to what you are saying. A first date with someone from OLD is a little like an interview of sorts - boy gets to know girl, girl gets to know boy - both get to know whether there is enough in common and enough interest to go out on another date... it’s the nature of old that lends itself to an interview of sorts - although, as said above, those who are good conversationalists will be able to gain the information they seek without it feeling like a job interview. No, I’m sorry, but I’m not going to tell you about my values, my life challenges, or even debate philosophy... I don’t know you. Even assuming that deep intellectual or emotional conversations is an interest for me (which is not the case for everyone), I don’t know you well enough on the first date to share personal information. I don’t know you - but more importantly, I don’t trust you yet. As Prudence said above, that is not the goal of the first date - it comes later in the relationship. At first, I want to know a little about you (but not everything, the mystery of who you are will be revealed over time - that’s the fun part of dating!), I want to know if I feel comfortable with you (this is where the humour and the ability to converse with a woman is important), and I want to know if I think you are attractive enough to want to kiss down the road... that’s all.

Edited June 1, 2021 by BaileyB

[SumGuy]

16 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

If one is a good conversationalist, it won’t descend to a interview of sorts. Although, there is merit to what you are saying. A first date with someone from OLD is a little like an interview of sorts - boy gets to know girl, girl gets to know boy - both get to know whether there is enough in common and enough interest to go out on another date... it’s the nature of old that lends itself to an interview of sorts - although, as said above, those who are good conversationalists will be able to gain the information they seek without it feeling like a job interview. No, I’m sorry, but I’m not going to tell you about my values, my life challenges, or even debate philosophy... I don’t know you. Even assuming that deep intellectual or emotional conversations is an interest for me (which is not the case for everyone), I don’t know you well enough on the first date to share personal information. I don’t know you - but more importantly, I don’t trust you yet. As Prudence said above, that is not the goal of the first date - it comes later in the relationship. At first, I want to know a little about you (but not everything, the mystery of who you are will be revealed over time - that’s the fun part of dating!), I want to know if I feel comfortable with you (this is where the humour and the ability to converse with a woman is important), and I want to know if I think you are attractive enough to want to kiss down the road... that’s all.

This.

Hopefully that kiss down the road is at the end of the date  

Edited June 1, 2021 by SumGuy

[ZA Dater]

21 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

If one is a good conversationalist, it won’t descend to a interview of sorts. Although, there is merit to what you are saying. A first date with someone from OLD is very much like an interview of sorts - boy gets to know girl, girl gets to know boy - both get to know whether there is enough in common and enough interest to go out on another date... No, I’m sorry, but I’m not going to tell you about my values, my life challenges, or even debate philosophy... I don’t know you. Even assuming that deep intellectual or emotional conversations is even an interest for me (which is not the case for everyone), I don’t know you well enough on the first date to share any real personal information. I don’t trust you yet. As Prudence said above, that is not the goal of the first date - it comes later in the relationship. At first, I want to know a little about you (but not everything, the mystery of who you are will be revealed over time - that’s the fun part of dating!), I want to know if I feel comfortable with you (this is where the humour and the ability to converse with a woman is important), and I want to know if I think you are attractive enough to want to kiss down the road... that’s all.

Ok I can accept that but its a balancing act, when its one way I tend to wonder what I am doing there when she asks me nothing about myself, how do you deal with this? In common in what sense? A little about me, that is fine but again when no questions are asked what really is the point?

Attractive enough, cynically I cant help but wonder if this is not the most important part.

There is not a great deal of mystery about me so yeah that is another negative.

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok I can accept that but its a balancing act, when its one way I tend to wonder what I am doing there when she asks me nothing about myself, how do you deal with this?

I don’t wait for a man to ask me questions. 

I certainly notice when he does/does not, because as you say, it is one expression of interest and it tells me a little about the other person (it is however, only a first impression because it is possible that the other person is nervous and monopolizing conversation for that reason). I tend to be the opposite - when I am nervous in a social situation, I tend to ASK lots of questions - would much rather talk about the other person than myself. That’s my comfort zone...

But, back to your question - good conversation is like a tennis match. Here is an example:

You: What do you like to do in your spare time? 
Her: I like to go hiking. 
You: Oh, I love hiking. Where do you hike? 
Her: I go to (names a trail). 
You: I’ve been there. It’s nice. My favourite trail is (names a trail). 
Her: I’ve never been.
You: It’s beautiful - I like it because it’s not too difficult and the views are spectacular! 
Her: That does sound nice. 
You: Maybe we could go together sometime?
Her: Maybe.
You: I also like biking.Do you bike? 
Her: Sometimes. 
You: Do you like a more leisurely bike or do you like mountain trails? I love the mountains, so I tend to go to some of the trails near the hiking trails when I have the time. 
Her: I’m more of a leisurely biker - I’m not that adventurous. (She laughs)
You: (laughs at her joke) Well, perhaps we could bike to the ice cream store - that would be fun too! 
Her: That’s a bike ride that I would really enjoy! 

See - back and forth - both offering, both giving. You reflect back what she says, and then add another question or something about yourself. Try to inject a little humour. You get to know about the woman and she learns about you. 

Two thoughts - she is more likely to share with you if you are able to be a good conversationalist, if you put her at ease, use a little humour, and keep it light. She will also be more willing to want to ask you questions and get to know you in this situation...

Edited June 1, 2021 by BaileyB

[SumGuy]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

Ok I can accept that but its a balancing act, when its one way I tend to wonder what I am doing there when she asks me nothing about myself, how do you deal with this? In common in what sense? A little about me, that is fine but again when no questions are asked what really is the point?...

When she asks noting about you, then you ask about her and tell a story about/relate something you did, thought, observed etc. when appropriate.  Instead of focusing on asking about you or her, focus on exploring views and through that process important aspects of you and her will be revealed.  That is part of the art of conversation.

On you reacting poorly about he asking nothing about you, my advice is unlearn that, wipe that from your mind.  That form of response is not indicative of anything positive in my mind.  It is reactive (instead of proactive), it can be seeking validation through others, which can come off as (or be) entitled and needy and insecure.

It is also narrow minded to think they are not getting to know you because they don't ask certain questions, as the sophisticated women who are what you appear to be after will know the art of conversation, will want to have one, and they will get to know about you in a much more reliable way than asking the kinds of questions that you think let you get to know someone. 

I am certain they could ask the interview questions, but if they are all that they are likely looking for more in a partner (an equal in this regard), for a more elevated form of conversation on many levels.

[BaileyB]

12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Attractive enough, cynically I cant help but wonder if this is not the most important part.

We’ve had this discussion before- as has many women. It’s not. But, continue to rehash the same talking points if you like...

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

When she asks noting about you, then you ask about her and tell a story about/relate something you did, thought, observed etc. when appropriate.  Instead of focusing on asking about you or her, focus on exploring views and through that process important aspects of you and her will be revealed.  That is part of the art of conversation.

On you reacting poorly about he asking nothing about you, my advice is unlearn that, wipe that from your mind.  That form of response is not indicative of anything positive in my mind.  It is reactive (instead of proactive), it can be seeking validation through others, which can come off as (or be) entitled and needy and insecure.

It is also narrow minded to think they are not getting to know you because they don't ask certain questions, as the sophisticated women who are what you appear to be after will know the art of conversation, will want to have one, and they will get to know about you in a much more reliable way than asking the kinds of questions that you think let you get to know someone. 

I am certain they could ask the interview questions, but if they are all that they are likely looking for more in a partner (an equal in this regard), for a more elevated form of conversation on many levels.

When the entire conversation is about them I tend to become very bored to be honest. Yes I am glad I agree what a conversation should be, that back and forth is great but in my experience hard to find.

Yip the story angle I used in this particular date and it pretty much created the conversation.

[elaine567]

Women are usually pretty good at filling in the conversation as required, so when a woman feels the man is not putting in much effort or she is not getting much back she will just keep talking, rather than sit in silence... This incessant chat about work you experienced is an example I guess of that.
Women often like men to lead the conversation. Women are usually far more sociable than men, so she needs to see what he is made of.
In order to get to know him she wants him to say interesting things, she doesn't want to keep speaking on her own. She doesn't want to keep asking questions either.
Women are very used to carrying conversations but it does not usually impress her if she feels like she has to do most of the talking to fill in the gaps.
If a man is not keeping up his side and batting stuff back adequately, she will likely not see him as dating material.

[BaileyB]

30 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Women are usually pretty good at filling in the conversation as required, so when a woman feels the man is not putting in much effort or she is not getting much back she will just keep talking, rather than sit in silence...

Yup. And at this point, she has already decided there will be no second date. 
 

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Women are usually far more sociable than men. Women are very used to carrying conversations but it does not usually impress her if she feels like she has to do most of the talking to fill in the gaps. She doesn't want to keep asking questions either.

Yup. OP, you can’t possibly tell us that ALL the women you meet only talk about themselves. That’s theoretically not possible. Nor, is it probable - considering that most women tend to be better conversationalists than men. Women are most definitely used to carrying the conversation. And, as you yourself have noted - dating someone with whom one has to do so is hard work...

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I agree what a conversation should be, that back and forth is great but in my experience hard to find.

it can’t be that hard to find. You could go on a date with any one of my friends and family members and they would be able to have a reciprocal conversation with you. Why do I say that, because they are each able to have a reciprocal conversation with me.

Are there women who are so completely self absorbed that they would prefer to discuss themselves - absolutely. I know both women and men like this. But, the vast majority of women and men can have a reciprocal conversation. 

You asked what you should do if she doesn’t ask you any questions about yourself - my answer was offer some information. Engage in a two way conversation. If she is not asking you questions about yourself it is highly likely that she has already decided you are not someone she wants to date. She just doesn’t want to put in the effort. I can imagine the vibe you give off, very closed - offering minimal information about yourself as you wait for her/judge her for not asking you any questions. If that was me, that would not encourage me to ask you questions and get to know you more. I would think “What’s his problem? Does he not know how to have a conversation?” And, I would be counting the minutes until I could respectfully leave...

As I said above, if you want to have a good conversation with someone - you need to be a good conversationalist. And, as it comes to dating... you need to keep it light, have some fun, and be open and engaging with that person. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by BaileyB

[dramafreezone]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

I like to try and find out what people are passionate about and what they enjoy doing but even this seems to be a big no no, it would appear all one really should do is apparently flirt which for the most part seems to entail manufacturing absolute nonsense or perhaps banter which I can do some of the time if there the other person can.

Why do you like finding out what people are passionate about?