Coffee Date

[Happy Lemming]

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

As you have a partner of 9.5 years, you are.... wait for it... an attached man...

I guess you are correct, but we are not married and do not live together (yet).

Although I don't see either of us wanting the relationship to end, technically either of us could walk away from the relationship with a simple phone call.

So @elaine567 to be more accurate for ZA Dater, I guess you could say I was a "confirmed bachelor" for 30 years of dating.

[ZA Dater]

8 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

What we are saying is that these "options" you state, are not dating options.
 

Might be so but all of the friend options I have had were hugely better than ANY dating option I have had.

[elaine567]

9 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

I guess you are correct, but we are not married and do not live together (yet).

Although I don't see either of us wanting the relationship to end, technically either of us could walk away from the relationship with a simple phone call.

So @elaine567 to be more accurate for ZA Dater, I guess you could say I was a "confirmed bachelor" for 30 years of dating.

My confirmed bachelor envisaged was more of the  rigid type who has never managed to make any connection with a woman, he is set in his ways, he is happy with his womanless lot. 

[dramafreezone]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd still get better dates, I know guys who get dates with really great people with little effort at all.

You don't know anything about these women that they date, so why would you say they're great?

Part of your problem is this reverence you have for women.  They're just people, like you are.  You place them above you, when really you should see yourself at least on their level.

You're saying you desire a certain type of women and won't settle for anything less, but you don't behave like you deserve that type of woman.

Edited May 29, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Weezy1973]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Might be so but all of the friend options I have had were hugely better than ANY dating option I have had.

You’ve created a world in your head where there are no options. Because you’re afraid. See a therapist.

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

You don't know anything about these women that they date, so why would you say they're great?

Part of your problem is this reverence you have for women.  They're just people, like you are.  You place them above you, when really you should see yourself at least on their level.

You're saying you desire a certain type of women and won't settle for anything less, but you don't behave like you deserve that type of woman.

Yes I have met LOTS of them. They are great because 

1: They actually bother to engage with people and do not sit there like a statue.

2: They actually bother to look good and by this I mean they are not overweight

3: They are motivated to go somewhere in life and they can actually have a conversation

4: Said conversation does not need to dragged out of them either.

You are wrong I do not place anyone above me, fact remains the comments here and OLD have put me at some sort of level with none of the above is attainable.

No you right I do not go around trying to sleep with anyone who walks, I do not go around talking the biggest of of BS on this planet to try get in her pants, I don't go around pretending to be someone I am not and acting like a class clown to try make her laugh so that I can take her home. No you are right one thing I have learnt the bigger the lie, the bigger the deception, the bigger the level of frankly nonsense you are prepared to peddle the bigger the win. For maximum win add in a big wallet and good looks.

You can call me whatever you like but frankly I am the one living this reality and not you.  SO what I do not like the next door lady with her kids, why should I be forced to like someone I do not simply because as some say that is my level. You know its very easy for those sit and preach levels this and level that but I guess it helps if they are happy with THEIR level, would they preach the same thing if their level was full of wholly unattractive people, I suspect not.

 

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’ve created a world in your head where there are no options. Because you’re afraid. See a therapist.

What complete and total nonsense.

 

[elaine567]

So how are these friends of yours meeting these great women?

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

What complete and total nonsense.

 

Unfortunately it seems to be the case.

You keep saying you’re not attracted to overweight women even though “K” is overweight and you’re attracted to her. You keep saying you don’t want to date single moms even though the widow was a single mom and you wanted to date her. You keep saying you never get attractive matches through OLD even though this thread was started because you had an attractive match through OLD.

 

You’re making up a story in your head that isn’t true. 

[elaine567]

K was never available she always had a bf, and the widow was not available either being way out of his league, similarly the yoga teacher ..
The coffee date was a rare OLD find, and he did find her attractive but she was not available either as she friend-zoned him right away...

The overweight single mothers with nothing to say that he finds on OLD and who ARE available to him, he doesn't find attractive.
That is the problem, it all results in zero matches,

[Weezy1973]

I’m not saying those women were available. I’m saying he needs to broaden the base of women that he’s attracted to reflect reality. He could be attracted to an overweight woman. He could be attracted to a single mother. And from time to time he gets a match with a woman he finds attractive through OLD. 
 

By his own posts, those things are all true, yet the internal monologue going on that he writes in his threads doesn’t reflect that reality. 
 

Also a reality that I don’t think most of us understand is that South Africa is still very class based and usually a function of race. The middle class in SA only represents about 30% of the population with the majority of people being poor. I think what @ZA Dater means when he gets matches he’s not interested in is that it’s primarily poor women looking to improve their lot in life. And he’s looking for a woman that’s also middle class like himself. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Weezy1973

[elaine567]

10 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

. I think what @ZA Dater means when he gets matches he’s not interested in is that it’s primarily poor women looking to improve their lot in life. And he’s looking for a woman that’s also middle class like himself. 

I agree but again he may be pitching above his league. 
He apparently is not able to tap into the educated/professional market, where he may be able to find women who at least can converse easily. 
He is stuck with poor and apparently "uneducated" women with kids looking for a provider.   
I have noticed his dislike for "booksmart" people so there may be a bit of an issue there with more educated women.

[Happy Lemming]

14 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

 Because you’re afraid.

If the OP is afraid, then doing nothing to improve the situation only feeds that fear and makes it stronger.

Facing that fear takes its power away.  When individuals are afraid of something, one can take small baby steps towards beating that fear.  With each small step you diminish the power that fear has over you.

If an individual will not admit that the fear even exists, then it becomes even stronger and just takes over...

 

[dramafreezone]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yes I have met LOTS of them. They are great because 

1: They actually bother to engage with people and do not sit there like a statue.

2: They actually bother to look good and by this I mean they are not overweight

3: They are motivated to go somewhere in life and they can actually have a conversation

4: Said conversation does not need to dragged out of them either.

 

 

None of that makes them great people.  That's something you can only learn about someone over time.  There are some that send a "representative" or the best outward projection of themselves in public, but you don't know what this person is like on their bad days, or even on their normal days 6 months into the relationship.

To me, I don't think you can know much about a person until you've seen them at their worst.  How they behave in those moments is what is illuminating about a person's character.  It's easy to seem great when things are going well.  There's a lot of people that get into relationships frequently and don't realize this though.

Quote

 

You are wrong I do not place anyone above me, fact remains the comments here and OLD have put me at some sort of level with none of the above is attainable.

No you right I do not go around trying to sleep with anyone who walks, I do not go around talking the biggest of of BS on this planet to try get in her pants, I don't go around pretending to be someone I am not and acting like a class clown to try make her laugh so that I can take her home. No you are right one thing I have learnt the bigger the lie, the bigger the deception, the bigger the level of frankly nonsense you are prepared to peddle the bigger the win. For maximum win add in a big wallet and good looks.

You can call me whatever you like but frankly I am the one living this reality and not you.  SO what I do not like the next door lady with her kids, why should I be forced to like someone I do not simply because as some say that is my level. You know its very easy for those sit and preach levels this and level that but I guess it helps if they are happy with THEIR level, would they preach the same thing if their level was full of wholly unattractive people, I suspect not.

 

You don't try to have sex with women simply because you can't.  It's not that you don't want to do it.  You think being the nice guy is the path that you have to take.  I've been there.

Your level is whatever you think your level is.  That's what you don't get.  If you think you're a 10, then you're a 10.  But it doesn't just stop at saying it, you have to live it.  That's why we sometimes see men with women that are "out of their league."  The women are not actually out of their league because the men say what their own league is, and they're able to convince others that they belong there.  You say you deserve a certain type of woman, but you don't act as if you do.

Edited May 30, 2021 by dramafreezone

[jspice]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

I’m not saying those women were available. I’m saying he needs to broaden the base of women that he’s attracted to reflect reality. He could be attracted to an overweight woman. He could be attracted to a single mother. And from time to time he gets a match with a woman he finds attractive through OLD. 
 

By his own posts, those things are all true, yet the internal monologue going on that he writes in his threads doesn’t reflect that reality. 
 

Also a reality that I don’t think most of us understand is that South Africa is still very class based and usually a function of race. The middle class in SA only represents about 30% of the population with the majority of people being poor. I think what @ZA Dater means when he gets matches he’s not interested in is that it’s primarily poor women looking to improve their lot in life. And he’s looking for a woman that’s also middle class like himself. 

I am South African. I’m from his city. 
He has plenty of choices who are NOT on Tinder. 
If he were merely looking for “middle class” he would find it. 

[jspice]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I have noticed his dislike for "booksmart" people so there may be a bit of an issue there with more educated women.

If you make a list of people who he DOESN’T like, all that will be left will be models. 
 

OP have you even travelled the world that you seek in your dates? When is the last time you left the country? 

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Unfortunately it seems to be the case.

You keep saying you’re not attracted to overweight women even though “K” is overweight and you’re attracted to her. You keep saying you don’t want to date single moms even though the widow was a single mom and you wanted to date her. You keep saying you never get attractive matches through OLD even though this thread was started because you had an attractive match through OLD.

 

You’re making up a story in your head that isn’t true. 

When I read things like this I sometimes regret I cannot actually post pictures here. There is a mega difference between a single mother who actually looks after herself, can support herself, does not have an ex interfering in her life, likewise, K is super smart, smarter than me in all probability, both of these people have some wow to them which unfortunately MOST I have met do not have. 

One attractive match in 10 years, wow that is a truly amazingly good ROI.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

The overweight single mothers with nothing to say that he finds on OLD and who ARE available to him, he doesn't find attractive.
That is the problem, it all results in zero matches,

THANK you. Finally!!!!! I did once find a therapist, yes you can all laugh at this and I saw her twice and chatted to her for months but even then I just could not find anything I really like about her, sure she was better looking than most but there was never any sort of connection. Likewise I chatted to a single mother for over a year but again no real attraction either and no real connection. K and A I connect with on a conversational level and that is rare and that is one of the reasons I found them attractive.

 

[dramafreezone]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

THANK you. Finally!!!!! I did once find a therapist, yes you can all laugh at this and I saw her twice and chatted to her for months but even then I just could not find anything I really like about her, sure she was better looking than most but there was never any sort of connection. Likewise I chatted to a single mother for over a year but again no real attraction either and no real connection. K and A I connect with on a conversational level and that is rare and that is one of the reasons I found them attractive.

 

What is it that you like about these beautiful women, besides their obvious exterior?

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

I’m not saying those women were available. I’m saying he needs to broaden the base of women that he’s attracted to reflect reality. He could be attracted to an overweight woman. He could be attracted to a single mother. And from time to time he gets a match with a woman he finds attractive through OLD. 
 

By his own posts, those things are all true, yet the internal monologue going on that he writes in his threads doesn’t reflect that reality. 
 

Also a reality that I don’t think most of us understand is that South Africa is still very class based and usually a function of race. The middle class in SA only represents about 30% of the population with the majority of people being poor. I think what @ZA Dater means when he gets matches he’s not interested in is that it’s primarily poor women looking to improve their lot in life. And he’s looking for a woman that’s also middle class like himself. 

Wonderfully tactfully written! Its VERY rare I get a match and today I had to sit and listen to said friend telling me about his conquests this week, complete with clothed pictures of what these women look like, each more beautiful than the next, each at least 20 years younger than him AND they chase him.

Compare that to me, just think about it for a minute and tell me everything I say which is apparently so wrong, is it really so wrong? I have made the mistake before of going out with him, its impossible, I might not even bother being there or might as well be invisible. I have been out prior to COVID and it never made a lot of difference how I presented myself, house parties, it never made a difference there either. 

 

[Happy Lemming]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 today I had to sit and listen to said friend telling me about his conquests this week...

 

Describe this individual... Is he outgoing, gregarious, interesting, fun??  Would you say he has game/skillz?? Would you say he knows how to capture the interest of a woman??

[ZA Dater]

Just now, dramafreezone said:

What is it that you like about these beautiful women, besides their obvious exterior?

Confidence, they all have it in bucket loads, they all go out to really be the best version of themselves, many are learned for the simply reason that even they need to compete at some point. Every single one of them has been vastly nicer and has FAR less baggage than the opposite. Yes, they are not perfect but they DO experience success and contrast that to someone who does not, you do not seem to understand or relate to how it feels to never ever win ever. 

No matter what you are trying to do, success can be the greatest motivator and the greatest way to turn around both thinking and attitude, I know this because I have worked with many people from extremely poor backgrounds, they arrive with the view they are useless and confined to that life, give them them belief, treat them better than anyone has before, make them believe than can accomplish things, tell them its alright to fail, motivate them to succeed. I am only too aware of how just a but of success can drive people forward.

One of the "great" things about my dating failure is I put back some positive back to those around me even when I feel the most alone and the most disheartened. Getting kicked in the face over and over made me realise I could try an uplift others because I know what its like to have people look at you as being odd, laugh behind your back, pity you, treat you like a project.

Yes I cant hide my dating scars, they are there for all to see but when I meet people like A, have such a great time with her, I get to realise that there is a LOT I miss out on BUT the reality is the seemingly unattainable will always have an allure for me.

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, Happy Lemming said:

Describe this individual... Is he outgoing, gregarious, interesting, fun??  Would you say he has game/skillz?? Would you say he knows how to capture the interest of a woman??

Wealthy, good looking, not hugely outgoing but he can spin the biggest lot of BS when required and that appears to work quite well. No the difference with him, they want his interest so he effectively has to do very little to project any interest of his own. I guess he is fun. In short he is really a player by his own admission. 

[Happy Lemming]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Wealthy, good looking, not hugely outgoing but he can spin the biggest lot of BS when required and that appears to work quite well. No the difference with him, they want his interest so he effectively has to do very little to project any interest of his own. I guess he is fun. In short he is really a player by his own admission. 

Take "wealthy" out of the equation and basically he has the ability/skill set to capture the interest of these desirable women, you seek.

So why don't you ask him for assistance in teaching you how to be "like him"... more outgoing... being fun... etc.  I'm not saying you have to become a "player" but surely you can learn something from him to peek the interest of the women you want to date.

[dramafreezone]

2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Confidence, they all have it in bucket loads, they all go out to really be the best version of themselves, many are learned for the simply reason that even they need to compete at some point.

Why do you think they go all out to be the best versions of themselves?  It's because without doing that they don't feel confident.  They don't just wake up confident, they have to work at it.

You don't see these women when they wake up in the morning without makeup, when they get on a scale and they've gained a couple of pounds.  You don't see them on their normal or bad days.

We've created a society where women are primarily judged for their looks.  Do you understand how incredibly tough that can be?  No matter how great a woman looks, many of them harbor a deep seeded feeling that they're not pretty enough, that there's always someone prettier.  Also, looks fade, so some know that attention they're garnering will be gone one day if they don't have more to rely on than their looks.

It's also why many of them have all of their instagram followers.  Many of them NEED those followers to feel good about themselves.  Why do you think many of them post photos of them drinking a vanilla latte, or laying out by the pool?  It's to get validation that they've still are seen as attractive.  Every like that they get is validation, so they keep doing it because without it, they don't feel good about themselves.  When a person (man or woman) believes they're judged primarily for their looks, it's never ending work to make themselves feel good and get that validation.

Like usual, you see the shine but not the grind.  You see confident women but you don't see how much work goes into maintaing that air of confidence.  They work hard at it, it's not effortless like you think it is.