Coffee Date

[Happy Lemming]

22 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I am not OK about missing out...

 

Then set a goal of trying to change and not be so critical of women who are "plain Jane's". 

Make a plan and set a goal; work the plan until you accomplish the goal. 

 

25 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

...who I am makes me fundamentally unattractive in every single way possible.

Not true... I asked my girlfriend to look at your picture, she thought you looked like the average 30+ year old man.  You are not unattractive, you are average... That is not a dig or put down.  I consider myself average in appearance.  I've got quite a few more gray hairs than you, but we are both average good looking men.

 

34 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Unfortunately much about life we do not get to choose...

 

We do get to pick something that is attainable, so if one individual is not attainable as a partner, then go look for someone who is.

[ClearEyes-FullHeart]

8 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

We do get to pick something that is attainable, so if one individual is not attainable as a partner, then go look for someone who is.

I totally agree with this. ZA you are so worried about “settling” yet you are settling for being single, missing out and so forth.

BTW I have nothing against being single and I am happily single now and not dating. Since my marriage ended I am loving having no one else to worry about, and sure over time I may choose to jump back in. Since you do want to experience being part of a couple and having a travel partner and yes physical intimacy broaden your horizons, and better match with what is attainable.

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

Then set a goal of trying to change and not be so critical of women who are "plain Jane's". 

Make a plan and set a goal; work the plan until you accomplish the goal. 

 

Not true... I asked my girlfriend to look at your picture, she thought you looked like the average 30+ year old man.  You are not unattractive, you are average... That is not a dig or put down.  I consider myself average in appearance.  I've got quite a few more gray hairs than you, but we are both average good looking men.

 

We do get to pick something that is attainable, so if one individual is not attainable as a partner, then go look for someone who is.

What defined as attained by OLD is exactly what I do not want. So yes my goals have changed over the years to something else really, the people I like always have lots of options so I never stand much of a chance really, irrespective which foot I put forward, I have spent lots of time working out what is needed to have any chance of success with those people and well its a cause I cant win by playing the same game everyone else does.

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, ClearEyes-FullHeart said:

I totally agree with this. ZA you are so worried about “settling” yet you are settling for being single, missing out and so forth.

BTW I have nothing against being single and I am happily single now and not dating. Since my marriage ended I am loving having no one else to worry about, and sure over time I may choose to jump back in. Since you do want to experience being part of a couple and having a travel partner and yes physical intimacy broaden your horizons, and better match with what is attainable.

Attainable as defined by OLD is completely unattractive. I cant settle with the idea of chasing something I want and believing in that idea and as the time goes that idea remains the same, I just remains as far away from it as I have always been. The reality is neither the drunk lady or the one who invited in over I felt anything for, the people I like the most are ones I feel something for, what that is I do not know but I just find their personality and overall attraction speaks to me whereas it just does not work with others.

One thing I am continually working on is how I see myself, I can let having no experience define me, I can hate having no experience or I can just accept it and believe that maybe someday someone I really like will find me attractive, I have to hope for something better because if I have no hope what do I have really? I cant seduce anyone, I cant flirt most of the time either so already people just see there is something wrong with me so its easier just to go the friend route.

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

What defined as attained by OLD is exactly what I do not want.

There in lies your problem.  It is my opinion, that OLD is worthless and a complete waste of time.  I did try it (briefly) and had no luck with it, the few people I did meet used old or photo-shopped pictures.  Whereas I've had great success meeting women in "real life" and dating some fantastic wonderful women. Using OLD as a barometer for the caliber of women you can date is a flawed method.

I understand that you do have a lack of game/skillz.  If you would like some assistance in obtaining same, I'll be glad to attempt to help you.

It is never too late to learn!!

[Weezy1973]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Attainable as defined by OLD is completely unattractive.

First, as this coffee date attests to, occasionally you do get an attractive match through OLD. Second, and please pay attention to this, the majority of women swiping right on you will be shooting out of their league FOR YOU. The does not have any relevance to your attractiveness level at all.

Of all the women that messaged me first through various OLD sites, I was attracted to none. Over a span of more than ten years off and on. I was attracted to none of the women that messaged me first. But I didn’t for a second think that was any indication of my own attractiveness level as I was able to get dates with women I was attracted to when I messaged first. 
 

Please stop placing any relevance on looking for the women that happen to swipe right on you on Tinder. It’s completely meaningless.
 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Weezy1973

[dramafreezone]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Its just not something I like the idea of, I have tried the non intimate arrangement idea but its so fake it has no appeal to me at all and its hard to see how doing that will suddenly make me more attractive. I am working on doing something differently in terms of how I approach things. 

 

It's all "fake."   That's what you still don't get.

If you don't know someone, the only way you can be attracted to them is by something you can observe.  Something has to get you the interview.  Once you're on the date, it's up to you to bring it home.

You could put your brain into Brad Pitt's body and you'd have the exact same problems.  Only difference is you'd get more dates, but women would see that same lack of confidence and say no thanks.

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

 

You could put your brain into Brad Pitt's body and you'd have the exact same problems.  Only difference is you'd get more dates, but women would see that same lack of confidence and say no thanks.

I'd still get better dates, I know guys who get dates with really great people with little effort at all. Women with me will always say no thanks that's a given really so the only way for me to get any would be to go commercial or go arrangement, neither appeals because neither addresses the core need for company. 

I have been able to project confidence but it's made no difference even when I have liked the person so the way I take something positive out of the experience is to just enjoy their company.

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, enigma32 said:

Most guys are perfectly content hooking up with women they aren't all that into. That's basically the hookup culture we currently live in, at least in my country. Good looking guys troll less attractive females for easy sex. Since he's not all that attracted to her he won't stick around and then the lady complains that all men just play games to get laid. I'm sure those threads are still here. 

My comments on leagues are 100% true but very few people will admit it. It's an uncomfortable truth but a truth nonetheless. As a grown man, you should not deny uncomfortable truths just because you don't like the implications. Accept the reality and use that knowledge to better yourself. 

I am not interested in hooking up with people I am not into. If the best I can do is overweight and unattractive then sure I am quite happy to remain a virgin forever.

But yes I see lots of that culture, unfortunately even women who complain about this are not interested in well meaning me. So the cycle just repeats itself over and over, usually until they become single mothers and suddenly then I am seen to have value at which point I am completely uninterested.

 

[elaine567]

Both women and men when looking to hook up will be none too fussy about who they choose to do so with.
They both find "desperate" people of both sexes who are happy with no strings attached sex..
 
It is not your looks that is holding you back, it is your behaviour.
You are not acting like a  guy who is looking for NSA sex, nor are you acting like a guy who is looking for a relationship. 
You are neutral.
You are in fact acting like a guy who is not looking full stop, like a guy or girl who is attached and has taken themselves out of the game.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Both women and men when looking to hook up will be none too fussy about who they choose to do so with.
They both find "desperate" people of both sexes who are happy with no strings attached sex..
 
It is not your looks that is holding you back, it is your behaviour.
You are not acting like a  guy who is looking for NSA sex, nor are you acting like a guy who is looking for a relationship. 
You are neutral.
You are in fact acting like a guy who is not looking full stop, like a guy or girl who is attached and has taken themselves out of the game.

I have never been in the game apparently.

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I have never been in the game apparently.

So what are you going to do about it?
When the going gets tough, the tough get going...

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

So what are you going to do about it?
When the going gets tough, the tough get going...

Do something I enjoy doing which is window shopping. I don't have the benefit of experience but that does not mean I can't window shop. The advice here is solid and if I were advising myself based on what's been presented I'd simply tell myself to do something else and write the idea off. 

I am told league's exist so I am pretty much stuck with what I do not want so it pretty difficult to get motivated about that. If I cant get what I want then nothing else will really satisfy that want so.

[elaine567]

The tough do not go window shopping...

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

The tough do not go window shopping...

That is fine. I know what I want and I just might not find all of it at once or very often but every so often I might find some of it some of the time. I do not meet many new people outside of work and hobbies which hold no attraction for women so that is already a problem, add the big problem being me myself and I and well yeah ladies and gentleman this is not the makings of a win now is it......

You said it yourself I am a confirmed bachelor. You also said its pointless to even bother because women want experience, sex, fun, seduction, flirting and well I pretty much never appeal to that side of their list of wants much like few ever appeal to what I really want. I'll keep dreaming and keep trying but it wont be on OLD.

My question is this: how many of you ever get what YOU REALLY want out of dating? How many of you can honestly tell me its worth it because almost all of this advice entails compromising so heavily I could not possibly imagine myself enjoying the experience at all. 

Can any of you honestly tell me you would pick a heavily compromised partner over a great friend you find very attractive and enjoy spending time with? Equally can you honestly tell me you strive for only "average" and if you do, please tell me how you deal with that because again I cannot think of much worse but probably because my view is I'd rather have one great cashmere sweater than 5 synthetic ones so again some of you tell me you have had lots of partners,  how many of them were "well this will do" versus "wow she is really amazing I would love to spend lots of time with her"

BTW the more I see of this coffee lady social media the more I see total incompatibility.

[elaine567]

Trouble is you have never experienced having a partner so your viewpoint is heavily skewed towards what you have experienced which is pretty minimal in the scheme of things.
OF course most would rather have a partner than "an attractive friend", only the most dysfunctional of partnerships would be worse.

You have merely skimmed the surface in reality.
A proper relationship vs a friend - there is no contest.

[ZA Dater]

23 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Trouble is you have never experienced having a partner so your viewpoint is heavily skewed towards what you have experienced which is pretty minimal in the scheme of things.
OF course most would rather have a partner than "an attractive friend", only the most dysfunctional of partnerships would be worse.

You have merely skimmed the surface in reality.
A proper relationship vs a friend - there is no contest.

OK let me put it like this 

Option 1

Someone I am not really attracted to that much but finds me attractive, we sort of get along without having much in common but we can communicate, I can spend time with her and its alright, nothing super memorable. She wants to date me.

Option 2

Someone I find attractive but who has no romantic interest in me, someone I do really enjoy spending time with and she takes an interest in me and my life, she ticks a lot of the things I like, likes spending time with me as a friend. We get along really well and I enjoy every moment with her and she makes me smile. She does not want to date me.

I have had option 1 perhaps 3 or so times and option 2 perhaps 3 or so times and for me there is no contest between which one I prefer, its option 2 every single time. Someone wanting to date me does not make up for a lack of attraction and compatibility. Its exactly this why you perceive me as not in the game because I just found the game devoid of any reward whatsoever. Option 2 ticks my "well this is the sort of person I really like" whereas option 1 just leaves me feeling indifferent. 

For me the worst imaginable scenario is dating someone I don't particularly like simply because I cant get what I do like, trying to con myself into believing I find the person attractive when I do not, I know people who have tried this and its never worked out well. That scenario is infinitely worse than simply being alone.

[elaine567]

But these options have little relevance to most people.
Option 1 is a nonstarter and option 2 is called a friend...  

[Weezy1973]

45 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

But these options have little relevance to most people.
Option 1 is a nonstarter and option 2 is called a friend...  

Exactly. Most people choose option 3:

Someone they’re attracted to and finds them attractive. Keep in mind this might not be an “OMG I HAVE TO RIP OFF THEIR CLOTHES RIGHT NOW” level of attraction, but still attracted. They share similar core values and similar goals when it comes to their relationship. They enjoy spending time with each other and are supportive of each other.

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

My question is this: how many of you ever get what YOU REALLY want out of dating?

I've been dating almost 40 years (last 9.5 years with the same person).  Personally, I really enjoyed dating (especially during my youth).  I had A LOT of fun, met some great women, enjoyed some new adventures (with these women) and had some mind blowing fantastic sex.  For me, I got what I wanted out of dating. 

Not every woman I went out with was great, some were OK and some were duds.  You can't win them all.  The vast majority of the women I dated were positive experiences.

Presently, I am quite happy with my current partner.  Up until the pandemic, we were traveling, having new adventures, checking items off of our "bucket lists" and really enjoying each other's company.  With pandemic restrictions lifting, we are planning to resume our travels/adventures. 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

 How many of you can honestly tell me its worth it because almost all of this advice entails compromising so heavily I could not possibly imagine myself enjoying the experience at all.

I don't know that I did all that much compromising.  If I went out with a woman and found a "deal breaker" within the first couple of dates, I just didn't continue to ask her out. 

As I've stated before, I consider myself an average male and I dated average women.  They didn't look like Christina Hendricks, but they also didn't look like Kathy Bates.  

Can you define what you mean by compromising??

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

You said it yourself I am a confirmed bachelor.

 

I am also a "confirmed bachelor" and my life has been a blast... and it ain't over yet!!

[elaine567]

15 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

I am also a "confirmed bachelor" and my life has been a blast... and it ain't over yet!

By confirmed bachelor I did not actually have you in mind...

[Happy Lemming]

4 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

By confirmed bachelor I did not actually have you in mind...

At 55, maybe I'm considered an "entrenched bachelor"??

Either way... I am truly happy with the life I picked and choices I made.  No regrets!!

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

At 55, maybe I'm considered an "entrenched bachelor"??

Either way... I am truly happy with the life I picked and choices I made.  No regrets!!

As you have a partner of 9.5 years, you are.... wait for it... an attached man...

[ZA Dater]

48 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Exactly. Most people choose option 3:

Someone they’re attracted to and finds them attractive. Keep in mind this might not be an “OMG I HAVE TO RIP OFF THEIR CLOTHES RIGHT NOW” level of attraction, but still attracted. They share similar core values and similar goals when it comes to their relationship. They enjoy spending time with each other and are supportive of each other.

That would be fine with me.  My options are more 1 and 2 and never really 3.

[elaine567]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

That would be fine with me.  My options are more 1 and 2 and never really 3.

What we are saying is that these "options" you state, are not dating options.