BaileyB Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, mark clemson said: The prospect of possibly having his kids feel and act he abandoned his wife may indeed be difficult for him. I understand what you are saying Mark, but I have a difficult time buying it. My friend’s mother suffered a near fatal stroke that left her permanently disabled. Her husband had an affair with the woman they hired to be a rehab assistant for his wife. He left his wife, and the family was devastated. They owned a business together, the divorce was contentious and dragged on for years… In the end, everyone lived happily ever after. Her mother bought her own home and a cabin at the lake. Her father had a relationship with the other woman for years until they too split. The kids were very unhappy at first, but they dealt with it. The man has a relationship with his kid and his grandchildren. Life goes on… They have worked, travelled, married, divorced, raised children, etc… Of course it’s difficult. But, people get divorced everyday. His kids are grown, their mother has apparently recovered from her surgery… I’m sure they are quite codependent and he is apparently having a very difficult time dealing with the thought that he could be considered “the bad guy…” but, at what cost? Or, as you say, maybe no cost. Perhaps he is where he is because it is exactly where he wants to be - “unhappily” married with no desire to change that.
BaileyB Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, mark clemson said: I think the question of why she has to jump into another probably dysfunctional relationship right after leaving her current one is the bigger issue. Absolutely agree. 5 minutes ago, mark clemson said: There's nothing wrong with being on your own for a while after a divorce, and I think there's probably a lot RIGHT about it from an emotional perspective. The same could be said for both of them. I would not be offering him a safe emotional landing. I don’t think that’s fair to her, he would essentially go from one codependent relationship to another. 1
mark clemson Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 10 hours ago, BaileyB said: I understand what you are saying Mark, but I have a difficult time buying it. ... Perhaps he is where he is because it is exactly where he wants to be - “unhappily” married with no desire to change that. Yes, of course that's possible. But 3-4 add'l months isn't such a huge price to pay to find that out for a woman who's in the process of divorcing anyhow and so probably has little need to be starting anything new just yet. 10 hours ago, BaileyB said: Absolutely agree. The same could be said for both of them. I would not be offering him a safe emotional landing. I don’t think that’s fair to her, he would essentially go from one codependent relationship to another. Well - ultimately that's their choice to make. Scotgirl seems to want options, so I'm providing what she seems to be asking for. You may not think it's "what's best" (and I may not either, actually) but again, it's her decision, so I'm giving the advice she seems to want (as I am able), rather than deciding for her what she shouldn't receive.
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 9, 2021 Author Posted July 9, 2021 3 hours ago, mark clemson said: Yes, of course that's possible. But 3-4 add'l months isn't such a huge price to pay to find that out for a woman who's in the process of divorcing anyhow and so probably has little need to be starting anything new just yet. Well - ultimately that's their choice to make. Scotgirl seems to want options, so I'm providing what she seems to be asking for. You may not think it's "what's best" (and I may not either, actually) but again, it's her decision, so I'm giving the advice she seems to want (as I am able), rather than deciding for her what she shouldn't receive. Thanks mark appreciate your advice. I’m wondering if I should say to him I’ll take a break for him just now and let him go sort stuff out whilst I’m not on the scene? I’m scared to push him away though and push him into it but? What’s your thoughts?
mark clemson Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 Hmm. I think he would read this as indication of your "commitment" wavering. So it's going to decrease changes of him ending up with you (slightly) in that sense by making him less confident that you are a safe landing spot for him if he leaves. That said: (A) do what you feel you need to do for YOU, and (B) do you really want to be with a man who "needs" a safe landing spot emotionally, rather than being independent Despite those valid points to consider, my thought about his reaction is as first stated. He will (IMO) become slightly less confident in you and therefore a bit less likely to leave.
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 9, 2021 Author Posted July 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, mark clemson said: Hmm. I think he would read this as indication of your "commitment" wavering. So it's going to decrease changes of him ending up with you (slightly) in that sense by making him less confident that you are a safe landing spot for him if he leaves. That said: (A) do what you feel you need to do for YOU, and (B) do you really want to be with a man who "needs" a safe landing spot emotionally, rather than being independent Despite those valid points to consider, my thought about his reaction is as first stated. He will (IMO) become slightly less confident in you and therefore a bit less likely to leave. So just continue seeing him and give him the time he said he wanted to sort it?
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 9, 2021 Author Posted July 9, 2021 Just now, Scotgirl84 said: So just continue seeing him and give him the time he said he wanted to sort it? Ultimately I want him so if it means I need to be patient as you said I’ve just separated from my other half it’s no even final yet so I’ve got a lot of sorting with that too
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 9, 2021 Author Posted July 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, mark clemson said: Hmm. I think he would read this as indication of your "commitment" wavering. So it's going to decrease changes of him ending up with you (slightly) in that sense by making him less confident that you are a safe landing spot for him if he leaves. That said: (A) do what you feel you need to do for YOU, and (B) do you really want to be with a man who "needs" a safe landing spot emotionally, rather than being independent Despite those valid points to consider, my thought about his reaction is as first stated. He will (IMO) become slightly less confident in you and therefore a bit less likely to leave. I really feel for him as I know how hard it is I was mega struggling telling my other half I wasn’t in love with him anymore and he’s gutted so still holding hope I think it’s just no nice hurting someone you loved and care for but I’m in love with someone else and can’t stop thinking about him
elaine567 Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 39 minutes ago, Scotgirl84 said: Thanks mark appreciate your advice. I’m wondering if I should say to him I’ll take a break for him just now and let him go sort stuff out whilst I’m not on the scene? I thought you had already done that to no avail? 2
mark clemson Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scotgirl84 said: Ultimately I want him so if it means I need to be patient as you said I’ve just separated from my other half it’s no even final yet so I’ve got a lot of sorting with that too Think you said it right there. Absolutely no guarantees it will work, but IF this is really what you want I think that's your best chance. Just make sure not to let the timeline stretch out TOO much. At some point (e.g. in 3-4 months or so) I'd say pressure him to get it in gear and be ready to cut bait when he doesn't (which is likely if he isn't mostly out by then). That's when you need to show some spine and walk if things aren't happening. You gave him a real shot at getting out with you there to receive him and he didn't. At that point (IMO) you set a strict timeline and walk away when he doesn't meet it. Edited July 9, 2021 by mark clemson
ExpatInItaly Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 On 7/8/2021 at 9:15 PM, Scotgirl84 said: Got to cut him some slack surely Yes, cut this philanderer some slack for lacklustre and unproductive philandering. Philanderin' ain't easy. 2
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 9, 2021 Author Posted July 9, 2021 8 hours ago, mark clemson said: Yes, of course that's possible. But 3-4 add'l months isn't such a huge price to pay to find that out for a woman who's in the process of divorcing anyhow and so probably has little need to be starting anything new just yet. Well - ultimately that's their choice to make. Scotgirl seems to want options, so I'm providing what she seems to be asking for. You may not think it's "what's best" (and I may not either, actually) but again, it's her decision, so I'm giving the advice she seems to want (as I am able), rather than deciding for her what she shouldn't receive. Told him I love him and want to be with him told him if I need to step back to give him space and hope he chooses me I will. He said hw understands cos seeing me everyday right now is making the other miserable hours at home bearable so he knows he will realise what he’s missing and knows he has to deal with it to be happy
elaine567 Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Scotgirl84 said: Told him I love him and want to be with him told him if I need to step back to give him space and hope he chooses me I will. He said hw understands cos seeing me everyday right now is making the other miserable hours at home bearable so he knows he will realise what he’s missing and knows he has to deal with it to be happy More nonsense, as if he doesn't know how "miserable" he is... This guy is full of cow manure and you hang on his every word... He is kicking the can down the road. Last time you could not keep up not seeing him, so I guess he is banking on you doing the same again. He has you by the short and curlies... 3
BaileyB Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Last time you could not keep up not seeing him, so I guess he is banking on you doing the same again. This. That said, I hope you have the courage and strength to walk away. If he is truly miserable in his marriage without you filling the gaps, he needs to do something about it. He will never do that if you keep filling the gaps, making the miserable more bearable… Edited July 9, 2021 by BaileyB 3
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 9, 2021 Author Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, BaileyB said: This. That said, I hope you have the courage and strength to walk away. If he is truly miserable in his marriage without you filling the gaps, he needs to do something about it. He will never do that if you keep filling the gaps, making the miserable more bearable… I know and he agreed. Think if I step back then that’s the only way I will find out for sure
Seliana Posted July 9, 2021 Posted July 9, 2021 1 hour ago, BaileyB said: This. That said, I hope you have the courage and strength to walk away. If he is truly miserable in his marriage without you filling the gaps, he needs to do something about it. He will never do that if you keep filling the gaps, making the miserable more bearable… This man sounds like an albatross. You two might end up in exactly the same kind of relationships you blew up. Lost cause. 1
ExpatInItaly Posted July 10, 2021 Posted July 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Seliana said: You two might end up in exactly the same kind of relationships you blew up. Lost cause. I agree, and this is what OP is not getting. The likelihood that they will have a neat and tidy relationship if he walks away from his marriage is just about nil. My prediction is that if he happens to leave and come to you, OP, he will not stay. He will go back to his wife. She won't just be cast out of his life. He will call her, he will check on her. He will probably visit her. He will be "confused." He will feel "obligated" to take care of her. You will not have this man all to yourself. You are absolutely fooling yourself if you think things will be resolved and finalized with their marriage if he walks away. That is not where this drama all ends. Not by a long shot. 1
elaine567 Posted July 10, 2021 Posted July 10, 2021 Has the sex improved any? You said it was infrequent and mostly involved fumbles in cars...
elaine567 Posted July 10, 2021 Posted July 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Seliana said: This man sounds like an albatross. You two might end up in exactly the same kind of relationships you blew up. Lost cause. ^^^ this is a very good point and may be exactly why he is stalling. 1
mark clemson Posted July 10, 2021 Posted July 10, 2021 16 hours ago, Scotgirl84 said: Told him I love him and want to be with him told him if I need to step back to give him space and hope he chooses me I will. He said hw understands cos seeing me everyday right now is making the other miserable hours at home bearable so he knows he will realise what he’s missing and knows he has to deal with it to be happy I guess that may work. How you present these "moves" can matter a lot. Others are making some rather valid points above, but - well, it's your life. I should add that since you probably have a lawyer around for your divorce, suggest you make sure you can't be sued if an affair "causes" a divorce in your jurisdiction. The AP can be sued in just a few US jurisdictions if there is a divorce (known as "alienation of affection"). You probably want to make sure that kind of lawsuit isn't allowed in your jurisdiction in case . 1
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 10, 2021 Author Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, mark clemson said: I guess that may work. How you present these "moves" can matter a lot. Others are making some rather valid points above, but - well, it's your life. I should add that since you probably have a lawyer around for your divorce, suggest you make sure you can't be sued if an affair "causes" a divorce in your jurisdiction. The AP can be sued in just a few US jurisdictions if there is a divorce (known as "alienation of affection"). You probably want to make sure that kind of lawsuit isn't allowed in your jurisdiction in case . I’m not at the stage of a divorce right now still separating tbh. I don’t know what else to do I’m thinking if I give him space to sort his life out he will miss me and come get me
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 10, 2021 Author Posted July 10, 2021 7 hours ago, elaine567 said: Has the sex improved any? You said it was infrequent and mostly involved fumbles in cars... Yeah it has improved as we have had space alone to spend time together that’s why we’ve fallen deeper in love 1
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 10, 2021 Author Posted July 10, 2021 7 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said: I agree, and this is what OP is not getting. The likelihood that they will have a neat and tidy relationship if he walks away from his marriage is just about nil. My prediction is that if he happens to leave and come to you, OP, he will not stay. He will go back to his wife. She won't just be cast out of his life. He will call her, he will check on her. He will probably visit her. He will be "confused." He will feel "obligated" to take care of her. You will not have this man all to yourself. You are absolutely fooling yourself if you think things will be resolved and finalized with their marriage if he walks away. That is not where this drama all ends. Not by a long shot. I know that and I will support him for a while. People do these things all the time who doesn’t have baggage.
BaileyB Posted July 10, 2021 Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Scotgirl84 said: I know that and I will support him for a while. No, but you are not understanding what expat is saying… That is also my prediction, if he does actually muster the courage to leave his wife, he will come to you - for a while. And then, he will return home. And then, he may try to stay in contact with you, he could waffle back and forth for the indefinite future… all the signs are there. He has a very codependent relationship with his wife, and he is worried about how he will be perceived by his children if he leaves their mother (one critical word from his child and it will cause him to reconsider and perhaps, flee home). You don’t think it will happen - read some posts by snakesalive. He is also very conflict avoidant - as evidenced by the fact that he is waiting for his wife to break up with him. So, he’s going to waffle back and forth because he doesn’t want to hurt either woman or his kids… al the while telling his tale of woe. This drama and this pain could continue for years… It’s not a question of whether you will support him while he makes this difficult decision. The question is - will you invest and support him, only to have your hopes dashed when he decides he can not stay with you, he misses his family and he can’t leave them? Edited July 10, 2021 by BaileyB 2
Author Scotgirl84 Posted July 10, 2021 Author Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, BaileyB said: No, but you are not understanding what expat is saying… That is also my prediction, if he does actually muster the courage to leave his wife, he will come to you - for a while. And then, he will return home. And then, he may try to stay in contact with you, he could waffle back and forth for the indefinite future… all the signs are there. He has a very codependent relationship with his wife, and he is worried about how he will be perceived by his children if he leaves their mother (one critical word from his child and it will cause him to reconsider and perhaps, flee home). You don’t think it will happen - read some posts by snakesalive. He is also very conflict avoidant - as evidenced by the fact that he is waiting for his wife to break up with him. So, he’s going to waffle back and forth because he doesn’t want to hurt either woman or his kids… al the while telling his tale of woe. This drama and this pain could continue for years… It’s not a question of whether you will support him while he makes this difficult decision. The question is - will you invest and support him, only to have your hopes dashed when he decides he can not stay with you, he misses his family and he can’t leave them? I know I’m totally gutted at that prospect tbh but I’m so in love with him I’m holding onto hope honestly. We’ve got something special here we both know it it’s just difficult situation
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