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UPDATE: New dad with grieving teenager - 2 months on


Ollie180

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She will probably hit out at you somewhat @Ollie180 It will be a test of strength and patience. All I can tell you is the last few conversations with my son were worth all the acting out before! But we went through a few years of issues first. His dad left, I never would.

Nobody reacts well when their world falls apart.

When I was complaining about my son, my dad said well you were a bl**dy nightmare yourself! But the week before he died we reconciled, said all we needed to.

That's what your daughter needs to know, that her mother lived her life, and I know it's harder now, because Christianity became so mean, but the concept of heaven is important. Whether it's real or not,we all have to have a spiritual space to place our loved ones.

Writing poems, music, painting, constructing.

I said it yesterday, you are the music whilst the music lasts.

Every person is special.

Hang in their!

I almost don't want to correct my spelling, it was their world for a long time.

 

 

 

Edited by Ellener
spelling, doesn't matter
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SincereOnlineGuy
15 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

Thank you!! 😊 I appreciate the support and advice you guys have given me!

Things have been quite full on here recently! DD’s mum has been in hospital all week, so DD’s been staying with me. She has been more upset as well.. I think it’s suddenly an undeniable reality for her that she can’t just put to one side in her head.

DD’s mum still wants to be able to go back home but, I dunno, I dunno if that’s going to happen or not, it’s still up in the air.

In America these days, there is much ballyhoo over various sports restarting... (and before long we'll have every major sport happening at the same time )

 

But all of them have either had a lengthy regular season pre-covid  or some amount of pre-season.

Ollie has gone from (being drafted  as a player - a quarterback, even -  {sorry, I don't know the equivalent in Cricket terms} }  to big game day all in the short span of one Loveshack thread.

 

Not only that, but a vast majority of the Loveshack team has never had to be around a teen who gains a 3rd parent and loses a 2nd parent in such a short window of time.

 

COMMEND THAT WOMAN on her instincts and her TIMING...   (for she reflexively gave to herself  enough time to sense that everything (else)  is likely to be OK for the daughter )

 

Much of THAT reality was already planted long ago when our Ollie  was the stand-up guy that we know him to be... and this woman always sensed as much... even if her youth and her whims drew her elsewhere.   (somewhere deep within this is also a lesson in not truly burning your bridges)

 

I wonder if there are any lessons to be found... in/from the daughter's many friends...  in terms of how to engage with the daughter during such a challenging time.

(not that anybody is expected to have an identifiable right answer...  but it would be somehow comforting to feel others  believing themselves to have any answer at all  )

 

Ollie,  maybe you don't have to DO too much...   

 

"Just Be..."

 

 

 

 

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On 7/30/2020 at 10:23 PM, Ellener said:

She will probably hit out at you somewhat @Ollie180 It will be a test of strength and patience. All I can tell you is the last few conversations with my son were worth all the acting out before! But we went through a few years of issues first. His dad left, I never would.

Nobody reacts well when their world falls apart.

Yeah, I mean, I could definitely understand that! I know the experience is different for everyone but, I definitely pushed everyone away for a couple of years when I lost my mum! I think, of all the emotions that grief hits you with I found anger the most palatable initially! 🤷🏼‍♂️

On 7/30/2020 at 10:23 PM, Ellener said:

When I was complaining about my son, my dad said well you were a bl**dy nightmare yourself! But the week before he died we reconciled, said all we needed to.

Reconciled with your dad? 

On 7/30/2020 at 10:23 PM, Ellener said:

That's what your daughter needs to know, that her mother lived her life, and I know it's harder now, because Christianity became so mean, but the concept of heaven is important. Whether it's real or not,we all have to have a spiritual space to place our loved ones.

Writing poems, music, painting, constructing.

I said it yesterday, you are the music whilst the music lasts.

Every person is special.

Lovely words! You’re right you know, her mum lived her life, too short for sure, but she lived it! We were chatting the other day about stuff I remember of her mum when we were young which I think she likes hearing that stuff because it’s kind of like a whole part of her mum she never knew (same I guess as me not knowing her in the last 15 years I guess).

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On 7/30/2020 at 10:52 PM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

Ollie has gone from (being drafted  as a player - a quarterback, even -  {sorry, I don't know the equivalent in Cricket terms} }  to big game day all in the short span of one Loveshack thread.

Yeah I get you - which is 10x harder on the kid when you think about it! She didn’t even know me in January and look where we’re at now!

On 7/30/2020 at 10:52 PM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

COMMEND THAT WOMAN on her instincts and her TIMING...   (for she reflexively gave to herself  enough time to sense that everything (else)  is likely to be OK for the daughter )

Much of THAT reality was already planted long ago when our Ollie  was the stand-up guy that we know him to be... and this woman always sensed as much... even if her youth and her whims drew her elsewhere.   (somewhere deep within this is also a lesson in not truly burning your bridges)

Yeah that she did! I’m pleased that me being in DD’s life now does give some comfort in that regard to her mum!

And it pleases me that even though she didn’t let me in DD’s life initially that she still felt like she could come and open that door now, I’m thankful for the opportunity she has given me to be a part of my kids life! 

On 7/30/2020 at 10:52 PM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

I wonder if there are any lessons to be found... in/from the daughter's many friends...  in terms of how to engage with the daughter during such a challenging time.

(not that anybody is expected to have an identifiable right answer...  but it would be somehow comforting to feel others  believing themselves to have any answer at all  )

Ollie,  maybe you don't have to DO too much...   

"Just Be..."

Yeah I hear you! Actually DD’s BFF is here at the moment for a sleepover. I think it’s important for her to have as many people around her that love her as possible right now, and those kids have known each other since they were like 5!

Thanks man! As always, thank you 🙌🏼

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13 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

The calendar ticks away...  and we wonder...

Hey!

Yeah, kiddo is still living with me at the moment, her mums still in hosp (we visit each day). I was hopeful she’d be discharged, then she worsened a bit, but she seems to have picked up the last couple of days so.. I just don’t know really.

DD’s coping okay I guess.... it’s hard because people process things differently right! She has been upset sometimes, so I’ve done a lot of the cuddles, comfort food + tele! But she can also be really good form as well... I dropped her into town to meet some mates yesterday and then picked them all up from the station and in that sort of circumstance you just wouldn’t know there was anything going on in her world at all!

Ive also had her BFF over to stay a few times, I think it’s good for DD to be around her as much as poss really, she’s basically known her her whole life and I know it’s a big support for her. What’s slightly out of character is she hasn’t been keen to go and stay with BFF (she used to basically live there half the time).. I’d say if anything has changed since her mum went into hospital then she’s maybe just a little bit more ‘attached’ to me - I guess that’s to be expected though 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

She goes back to school in September, schools are opening as normal here - I’m thinking that’s a good thing, more time around her mates, more routine, and some time around some other adults/professionals who know her.

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Probably good for her to have those days out with friends...   even-IF/because   it requires her to rehearse  good times.

 

(*** that could be quite effective to have known such uplifting days in recent-ish times if/when the darker days are encountered)

 

 

Nice to hear from you.

 

 

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1 hour ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

Probably good for her to have those days out with friends...   even-IF/because   it requires her to rehearse  good times.

(*** that could be quite effective to have known such uplifting days in recent-ish times if/when the darker days are encountered)

Nice to hear from you.

Yeah you’re right, I didn’t really think of it like that!

I think like, her mum always asks me how DD is ‘dealing with it’.. and I know her main concern is if she’s bottling stuff up, so I am trying to look out for that. But I guess I also feel like, she’s still a kid and she needs time to just be a kid y’know?

I think maybe in a big group with all her mates she maybe feels like she has to force the smile a little bit (she does a good job).. but I hear her laughing and messing around with her bff and I’m pretty sure that’s genuine! And like she’s just gone to bed but she’s spent the last few hours this evening trying to teach me dance routines for TikTok.. and although I’m absolutely certain I’ve probably thrown away any last shreds of dignity the world thought I still had (😂)  she seemed to be in high spirits!

 

.....I just try to match her energy really 🤷🏼‍♂️ Be ready with the hugs when she seems sad, but also be ready to bounce off her when she seems in a good mood 🤷🏼‍♂️

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On 8/14/2020 at 2:48 PM, Ollie180 said:

teach me dance routines for TikTok.. and although I’m absolutely certain I’ve probably thrown away any last shreds of dignity the world thought I still had (😂)  she seemed to be in high spirits!

don't forget the Hawaiian shirt ploy....   for dropping her off at school with fanfare.

(and a belt buckle hanging out of the car and dangling on the sidewalk (IF you can make that occur in 2020)...  ties a neat bow around the presentation)

 

Don Ho music on the radio when its your turn to drive the kid carpool.

 

 

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DD’s mums birthday yesterday. We took a some presents and a nice cake to the hosp and give it to the nurses and that. Obviously though it was probably one of the toughest so far for DD!

One of the..interesting..things I’ve noticed recently is that, DD does a good job of plastering on a smile and being a comedian for the world (I’d say we’re alike like that), but even with the people she will talk about the tougher stuff with.. her bff, bff’s parents, her cousin in Oz, my gf... even with them although she’ll talk about how she feels, she’ll still stay quite composed. Maybe choke up but never lose control of her emotion! ..But she’s not like that with me, not all the time anyway.. she’ll come seek me out for a hug or for a proper cry ................obviously I do really hate seeing her upset, but I also am pleased that we’ve been able to foster a relationship where she does feel like she can be like that with me! ..Considering what a short time I’ve been in her life!

 

She also got her GCSE result today (shes due to take her end of school GCSE exams next May but her school always take one exam early in year 10 to ‘get one under their belt basically’). We had to go to the school for her to pick up her result, DD expected a pass ..which she didn’t get 🙈 I think that was a bit of a frustration for her on the back of this week, but in the scheme of things it’s really not the end of the world! A grade on a piece of paper sure doesn’t define who you are as a person (nor does it even define how smart you are! 💁🏼‍♂️)

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On 8/20/2020 at 2:27 PM, Ollie180 said:

DD’s mums birthday yesterday. We took a some presents and a nice cake to the hosp and give it to the nurses and that. Obviously though it was probably one of the toughest so far for DD!

One of the..interesting..things I’ve noticed recently is that, DD does a good job of plastering on a smile and being a comedian for the world (I’d say we’re alike like that), but even with the people she will talk about the tougher stuff with.. her bff, bff’s parents, her cousin in Oz, my gf... even with them although she’ll talk about how she feels, she’ll still stay quite composed. Maybe choke up but never lose control of her emotion! ..But she’s not like that with me, not all the time anyway.. she’ll come seek me out for a hug or for a proper cry ................obviously I do really hate seeing her upset, but I also am pleased that we’ve been able to foster a relationship where she does feel like she can be like that with me! ..Considering what a short time I’ve been in her life!

 

She also got her GCSE result today (shes due to take her end of school GCSE exams next May but her school always take one exam early in year 10 to ‘get one under their belt basically’). We had to go to the school for her to pick up her result, DD expected a pass ..which she didn’t get 🙈 I think that was a bit of a frustration for her on the back of this week, but in the scheme of things it’s really not the end of the world! A grade on a piece of paper sure doesn’t define who you are as a person (nor does it even define how smart you are! 💁🏼‍♂️)

Special special love to you Ollie, and no, tell your daughter for every thing which seems like a failure it's probably just a concealed lesson...when I'm better I'll write about all my life 'failures' and the wonderful things they produced! Even recently...

The Latin 'fallere' = “to deceive, to trip, to lead into error, to trick.” 

You are quite capable of making your own parenting lessons from this, Ollie, but in my experience GCSEs aren't a whole lot of equipment to live a successful life, especially if you're already negotiating life or death realities.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Ellener said:

Special special love to you Ollie, and no, tell your daughter for every thing which seems like a failure it's probably just a concealed lesson...when I'm better I'll write about all my life 'failures' and the wonderful things they produced! Even recently...

The Latin 'fallere' = “to deceive, to trip, to lead into error, to trick.” 

You are quite capable of making your own parenting lessons from this, Ollie, but in my experience GCSEs aren't a whole lot of equipment to live a successful life, especially if you're already negotiating life or death realities.

Hey El, hope you’re feeling better!

Oh I couldn’t agree with you more!! “Never let success get to your head or failure get your heart”, right? ...I was never about exams and yet my life turned out alright.. I got a job - Ive been laid to see the world, to bottle fed a leopard, to surf on a beach filled with penguins - I measure my success in those things!

DD seems okay about it (her mum was a bit stressed, because she really does push the importance of education, and believes DD could do better than that) but I think DD’s over it ...I am just trying to make sure that she doesn’t write off all her GCSEs just because she didn’t pass this one! She’s still got a whole year of school left and there’s no reason that she isn’t capable of achieving what she’s been predicted.

Anyway it feels to be like a very small issue compared to everything elses, like you say ‘life or death realities’ so I’m not too worried about it!

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DD’s mum has come our of hospital and moved into a hospice, we did look at options of at home care.... but ultimately it was my and her thoughts that it’s probably best for DD to just stay living with me now.

Time with her mum I’d obviously VERY precious, but at the same time living with someone very sick and a constant flow of (wonderful) home care nurses in and out, is also pretty hard (I know that first hand), and in this situation with corona it’s going to allow more flexibility for DD, as well as better care for mum to go the hospice route! And DD can go and visit whenever!

 

My foster sis came down from London and stayed for a couple of days, so it was nice to spend a bit of time with her and DD! She’s definitely someone I want to be a part of DD’s life! And I took her to visit DD’s mum - which was I think a blast from the past for both of them, they haven’t seen each other since we were like 17!

 

There’s quite a lot going on here at the moment too. Got my gf moving in AND DD is back to school (normal in-person school) on Monday! So I’m hoping that all goes as smooth as poss, I don’t want it to be too much change all in one go.

 

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On 9/3/2020 at 12:51 PM, Ollie180 said:

DD’s mum has come our of hospital and moved into a hospice, we did look at options of at home care.... but ultimately it was my and her thoughts that it’s probably best for DD to just stay living with me now.

Time with her mum I’d obviously VERY precious, but at the same time living with someone very sick and a constant flow of (wonderful) home care nurses in and out, is also pretty hard (I know that first hand), and in this situation with corona it’s going to allow more flexibility for DD, as well as better care for mum to go the hospice route! And DD can go and visit whenever!

 

My foster sis came down from London and stayed for a couple of days, so it was nice to spend a bit of time with her and DD! She’s definitely someone I want to be a part of DD’s life! And I took her to visit DD’s mum - which was I think a blast from the past for both of them, they haven’t seen each other since we were like 17!

 

There’s quite a lot going on here at the moment too. Got my gf moving in AND DD is back to school (normal in-person school) on Monday! So I’m hoping that all goes as smooth as poss, I don’t want it to be too much change all in one go.

 

Wow...    maybe...  it will be the confluence of many things ongoing that will really help when distractions are needed.

 

such a heavy  time and a heavy  subject.

 

Hope you can find auto-pilot  and have faith in your instincts when you just have to be (at least close to) right.

 

We're all rooting for you.

 

 

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On 9/6/2020 at 5:57 AM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

Hope you can find auto-pilot  and have faith in your instincts when you just have to be (at least close to) right.

We're all rooting for you.

Thanks man! You’re right, it’s such a ‘reaction game’ because I never know what’s getting thrown at us from one day to the next!

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DD’s mum gave me a letter to give to DD when the time comes she’s no longer with us.. which just breaks my heart, but I get she wanted to write some stuff down while she’s well and strong enough.

 

She gave me one too but said I didn’t have to wait to open it, it was just some things that were easier to write than say.

I read it, she talked a lot about her decision not to have me in DD’s life and that she regrets it! She said that she sought me out this year out of what felt like necessity but that now she massively realised that she underestimated the “value that I would bring to DD’s life”. Told me “you are her dad Ollie, that is finally clear to me, you are her dad”.

She also described me as the love of her life (I had no idea she felt like that), said “even all those years ago we must have seemed like oil and water. But you make everyone around you feel special! You were the one illogical, irrational decision I ever made, but you were so easy to fall in love with. The boy from Hackney who showed me the world” 

She also speaks highly of my gf. She said like she knows me, even though she hadn’t seen me for 15 odd years she knows me, because she’s seen me every day in DD, she’s watched her grow up and she knows me better than she did all those years ago because of that, and she says that in knowing me she knows how “perfect for you” my girlfriend is. She told me “don’t let her go Ollie

 

Really choked me up reading it to be honest! I feel for her I really do. And I feel for DD too, so much, I can’t even imagine how hard to read that letter will be for her either!!

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Is there a way that you can audio record  messages from mom, to DD, for those important dates down the road  ??

 

(wedding day, in particular, and graduation dates... prom night...  whatEVER)...   and other milestone days that you might be likely to witness.

 

I know a family which prepared that, in advance, and it was so unique and meaningful.

 

Maybe (you...  or better yet,  Winnie Cooper,  cuz she's a girl, and she knows...)  create a LIST of potential future milestone day/dates...  

 

and present those possibilities TO the mom, and see if she might consent to record some messages to be given to DD only then...

taking special care that they be put on a medium  that won't be obsolete once those dates arrive  (or proactively moved from one medium to the other, as technology expands).

 

Heck, you can make videotapes, of course...  but obviously think about it now...   (and TRY if you can, to resist letting-on that they exist), for the touching surprise later)

 

(** do NOT store them at any girlfriend's home, or anywhere outside of your full control)

 

 

 

 

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On 9/16/2020 at 2:11 PM, Ollie180 said:

The boy from Hackney who showed me the world

And that's your life story now, whether you write it out or not!

There is a book 'Final Gifts' and one line jumps out- 'Coping with terminal illness is more than hard work, it's all-consuming and creeps into every area of your life '

Then when death occurs often there is nothing...here is a mother who left behind a reminder of her life, her love. You are the greater part of that. 

Just love her back and make her comfortable, don't be afraid. 

Sending you love and strength for this journey. 

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On 9/16/2020 at 10:09 PM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

Is there a way that you can audio record  messages from mom, to DD, for those important dates down the road  ??

(wedding day, in particular, and graduation dates... prom night...  whatEVER)...   and other milestone days that you might be likely to witness.

I know a family which prepared that, in advance, and it was so unique and meaningful.

Maybe (you...  or better yet,  Winnie Cooper,  cuz she's a girl, and she knows...)  create a LIST of potential future milestone day/dates...  

Great minds haha - I gave DD’s mum a voice recorder as a birthday present! She liked the idea but I haven’t pushed it I’ve left it with her.. she’ll decide what’s right I guess.. and she’ll tell me if and when she wants to 🤷🏼‍♂️ 
 

I know exactly what you’re saying about those special dates though, it’s hard - you always feel it more then! I always used to feel it the most at Christmas... wasn’t really until I settled down with my current gf that I really started to genuinely enjoy Christmas’!

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On 9/23/2020 at 6:42 PM, Ellener said:

And that's your life story now, whether you write it out or not!

There is a book 'Final Gifts' and one line jumps out- 'Coping with terminal illness is more than hard work, it's all-consuming and creeps into every area of your life '

Then when death occurs often there is nothing...here is a mother who left behind a reminder of her life, her love. You are the greater part of that. 

Just love her back and make her comfortable, don't be afraid. 

Sending you love and strength for this journey. 

I love that!! Thanks El! 💛

I think that as well sometimes when I look at DD..... like.. what an amazing legacy that kid is y’know! Her mums done such a good job as a mother, DD’s a total credit to her .....and life as a concept seems far less short and fleeting when you see all the love you put into your kids makes them who you are and... closest thing to immortality really, isn’t it!!

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Little update...

DD’s mums pretty sick, she’s on a lot of pain meds now so she sleeps a lot.

I think it’s hitting DD a bit now... the school called me on Friday asking me to go pick her up because she was a bit upset, which is the first time that’s happened - and actually talking to them I think that’s the first time they’ve seen her get that overwhelmed by it. She asked them to call me, she wanted to come home.

Obviously, it hurts my heart to see her sad, I feel for her so much, but I’m not overworried in the sense I don’t think it’s a bad thing that she expressing some of what she’s feeling, not bottling it all up. It’s only natural! She just cuddled up to me on the sofa and we watched movies all Friday afternoon........ Although it’s a huge regret for me I haven’t been in her life all her life, I am thankful that I feel like we have had at least enough time to build a bit of a relationship and bond before the situation progressed a bit - hopefully that means that I can be of more comfort to her - than if I was just still a near perfect stranger!

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14 hours ago, Ollie180 said:

Little update...

DD’s mums pretty sick, she’s on a lot of pain meds now so she sleeps a lot.

I think it’s hitting DD a bit now... the school called me on Friday asking me to go pick her up because she was a bit upset, which is the first time that’s happened - and actually talking to them I think that’s the first time they’ve seen her get that overwhelmed by it. She asked them to call me, she wanted to come home.

Obviously, it hurts my heart to see her sad, I feel for her so much, but I’m not overworried in the sense I don’t think it’s a bad thing that she expressing some of what she’s feeling, not bottling it all up. It’s only natural! She just cuddled up to me on the sofa and we watched movies all Friday afternoon........ Although it’s a huge regret for me I haven’t been in her life all her life, I am thankful that I feel like we have had at least enough time to build a bit of a relationship and bond before the situation progressed a bit - hopefully that means that I can be of more comfort to her - than if I was just still a near perfect stranger!

 

a thought just popped into my head...

MAYBE, at some point, when the "DD" is especially down, and you are uncertain just HOW to comfort her...

 

consider pausing, and inspiring her to step into your shoes, from your vantage point, for a short while... (at the very least, she would attempt to focus  on that role for a moment).

 

Then sorta take a step-by-step...  from your first-ever awareness of her... (or, even, of things back in the day when you and her mom were still an item... perhaps toward the end of that relationship).

 

I sense/understand that she  ~knows~  nearly all of the details, but might NOT have paused long enough to step into your shoes.

 

Then,  the little story will reach  the then-present  with her being reminded so directly of how much you care for her, and how amazing it is to so uniquely step right into her mid-teens, where she has already long ago become a discernible individual  with likes and dislikes and (a whole bunch of DATA of the sort males like to just analyze and process).

 

NOT that you'd be doing this to gain anything, or to take anything away from her mom's image or importance...

 

but perhaps just save the idea for when one painful experience in detail is being expressed right after a tangent painful experience in considerable detail...   merely to stop the snowballing momentum that way.  (have the idea at the ready in CASE it can help to keep the effects of her dealing with life's sad moments from being any greater than the painful sum of their parts   { not letting the effects of that pain snowball as much }.

 

(and of course you have surely already put small snippets of all of this in the conversations you've already had... but this time you'd be painting a verbal picture of yourself as YOU evolved to get here...  and I'm guessing that with each passing week there are new revelations that you'd not previously considered... the sum of which might slow her path toward snowballing despair at some point)

 

 

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On 10/4/2020 at 7:09 AM, SincereOnlineGuy said:

 

Then,  the little story will reach  the then-present  with her being reminded so directly of how much you care for her, and how amazing it is to so uniquely step right into her mid-teens, where she has already long ago become a discernible individual  with likes and dislikes and (a whole bunch of DATA of the sort males like to just analyze and process).

...(and of course you have surely already put small snippets of all of this in the conversations you've already had... but this time you'd be painting a verbal picture of yourself as YOU evolved to get here...  and I'm guessing that with each passing week there are new revelations that you'd not previously considered... the sum of which might slow her path toward snowballing despair at some point)

I like this!

Its funny you say actually, one of the things that I’ve learnt about DD is when she’s feeling a bit down on of her favourite things to hit me with is “tell me a story” ....at first I used to think that didn’t quite match with the 15 going on 25 girl I know, but I’ve come to realise that I think what she likes is just me to talk to her, without her needing to say anything. She doesn’t seem to mind what I’m actually talking about.

I told her all my favourite stories about my travels, the animals I’ve worked with and the crazy situations I’ve found myself in! She seems to like it! But I definitely realised that above any of that, she likes to hear me talk about her mum, like her mum back in the day when we were together.

By that token maybe you’re right and the story of me meeting my wonderful daughter is a story worth telling her too!


 

She’s seemed a bit more where old self these last couple of days though! She had me filming  TikToks all day with her yesterday (and me pretending to myself im not too old for that lol) and her bff came over to stay tonight and they seem to be having riot (defo sounds like a riot at the least) 😂

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