All out of ideas...

[Thelambofdeth]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

 

These men are mere placeholders.   Thing is, intelligent women settle down with men who are interesting.  As said to me just recently by a young woman "He's hot, nice and respectful, but he's not academic enough"   So he's in the FWB basket till someone who's enjoys learning comes along.    

See this is what I mean. What if you're not academic? Everyone isn't or doesn't look for a scholar. You can't just change yourself in hopes someone will like you. Even then you have to be hot enough and whatever else just to possibly be considered for just that one person.

[Moves Like Jagger]

On 12/10/2019 at 12:31 AM, Thelambofdeth said:

In my experience women seem to love douchebags. See, if I don't know you, and aren't comfortable around you...I'm overly polite, quiet and seemingly passive. I give the impression of anything but a douchebag.(usually) But let's be honest....most loud, cocky, braggy, obnoxious douchebags don't usually have a hard time procuring a girlfriend. In fact, they tend to harbor a surplus of willing women.

 

If you're the life of the party and happen to be really, really loud...women are going to notice you. The impression I mostly project is certainly NOT that. I'll come of as polite, cordigal, courteous, etc because I hardly interject much. I know if I'm allowed to be myself, it's going to annoy and repel other people.

 

 

That is the reason why you're having trouble with women. Being "overly polite, quiet, and seemingly passive" is just creating a wall that prevents you from building a connection with women. Bad boys learned long ago that leaving a bad impression is better than leaving no impression because different women are attracted to different things. Bad boys also play the number game. I think playing the number games is a great idea because for average-looking guys, a lot of women will never be interested in you no matter how much you maximize your looks and personality because women might reject you for reasons you have no control over like face or race. 

How can she find out that you have common interests with her if you don't say anything at all? Another thing with being overly  polite. When I think of overly polite people, I think of people that have no sense of humor and people that follow the same conversational script of "What is your job?", "Where are you from?" and "What did you major in? A lot of the quiet guys I know never give their opinions on anything. I think most women find guys boring if he makes the innocent mistake of asking the same, interview questions. 

 

Thelambofdeth, you are creating a wall that prevents you from connecting with women every time you play it safe. Give an opinion, tell a joke, or make an observation. Just avoid asking the same get to know you, interview questions. When I read all these threads from struggling guys that can't get any attention from women, I wonder if the guys are asking the same questions over and over. 

Another thing, I don't understand why people think it's acceptable to be boring if you are making an effort to be a listener. Who thinks doing a job interview is charming? When I go outside, I see people joking around, telling stories, and giving opinions. I never understood why asking women a bunch of questions in the hope that she does all the talking will make her feel a connection. I seen a lot of times where asking a women questions in the hopes that she does all the talking only inflates her ego. 

[basil67]

7 hours ago, Thelambofdeth said:

See this is what I mean. What if you're not academic? Everyone isn't or doesn't look for a scholar. You can't just change yourself in hopes someone will like you. Even then you have to be hot enough and whatever else just to possibly be considered for just that one person.

 

You find someone who doesn't want a partner who is particularly academic.   Most of us who have dated more than one person in our lives tries a few fits before finding out what works for us.   Likewise, what rationale can you give that she should settle for a guy who is cute but not intellectually stimulating?

 

That said, it's not hard for someone who is academic to find a partner.  It's also not hard for someone who's not particularly academic to find a partner.   We're not talking about people who lack social skills here.

Edited December 26, 2019 by basil67

[Thelambofdeth]

13 hours ago, Moves Like Jagger said:

That is the reason why you're having trouble with women. Being "overly polite, quiet, and seemingly passive" is just creating a wall that prevents you from building a connection with women. Bad boys learned long ago that leaving a bad impression is better than leaving no impression because different women are attracted to different things. Bad boys also play the number game. I think playing the number games is a great idea because for average-looking guys, a lot of women will never be interested in you no matter how much you maximize your looks and personality because women might reject you for reasons you have no control over like face or race. 

 

I mean I get that. I understand you cant really connect with someone by being polite and stoic. Its not like I do it intentionally. It's just how I am at early stages. The numbers game is pretty much mandatory, as well. I concede to that. But I can't even approach a women, let alone multiple. It's because I know there's nothing I can do about all the many, subsequent rejection that'll happen. I'm aware the rejections you cant take personally, but with a lack of confidence...well. It's hard to brush that aside and resent persistent.

 

Quote

How can she find out that you have common interests with her if you don't say anything at all? Another thing with being overly  polite. When I think of overly polite people, I think of people that have no sense of humor and people that follow the same conversational script of "What is your job?", "Where are you from?" and "What did you major in? A lot of the quiet guys I know never give their opinions on anything. I think most women find guys boring if he makes the innocent mistake of asking the same, interview questions. 

 

I don't really have an issue continuing a conversion once its began. For the most par it's initiating and getting a conversation started in the first place. It's that initial approach I struggle with mostly.

 

 

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Thelambofdeth, you are creating a wall that prevents you from connecting with women every time you play it safe. Give an opinion, tell a joke, or make an observation. Just avoid asking the same get to know you, interview questions. When I read all these threads from struggling guys that can't get any attention from women, I wonder if the guys are asking the same questions over and over. 

 

Long stories short, the last two times I managed to have full-length conversations with women I managed to have lengthy, flowing conversations and in both instances they volunteered their numbers to me. Thing is, that doesn't happen frequently enough for me to really capitalize or depend on it. I'm not able to create those instances myself to get to that point. I am aware and intelligent enough to not be a total bore during a conversation. My stoicism and overly politeness fades once i'm actually conversing. Opportunities to do so just doesn't happen enough. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

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Another thing, I don't understand why people think it's acceptable to be boring if you are making an effort to be a listener. Who thinks doing a job interview is charming? When I go outside, I see people joking around, telling stories, and giving opinions. I never understood why asking women a bunch of questions in the hope that she does all the talking will make her feel a connection. I seen a lot of times where asking a women questions in the hopes that she does all the talking only inflates her ego. 

 

 

There's a way to do it. I detest most of the PUA rhetoric but minor negging is one of the few mantles of theirs I kind of subscribe to. Most any success I've had talking to women has mostly come from asking questions, allowing her to mostly talk and interjecting. For me if i'm slightly sarcastic, cheeky and tease a bit, it does help to seem keep interest. Again, I have enough tact to know not to just read of a list of generic questions and contribute no input. But it's weird because I can't really do that unless it's with people I already know or in a one on one dialog. I can't just walk up to women and be that way. Basically I find it impossible to break ice. Like literally. If i'm not approached or a conversation doesn't happen through happenstance, i'm screwed.

[Thelambofdeth]

12 hours ago, basil67 said:

 

You find someone who doesn't want a partner who is particularly academic.   Most of us who have dated more than one person in our lives tries a few fits before finding out what works for us.   Likewise, what rationale can you give that she should settle for a guy who is cute but not intellectually stimulating?

 

I'm not implying anyone should settle. Anyone is free to discriminate to whatever personal standards or barometers that set as they see fit. Not condemning that. Yet you have many women who do settle and it would be nice to find one who does.

 

 

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That said, it's not hard for someone who is academic to find a partner.  It's also not hard for someone who's not particularly academic to find a partner.   We're not talking about people who lack social skills here.

 

Well yes, good for those lot. I'll alert the president and they should get a metal or something.

 

Sadly if you do lack social skill it's not exactly that simple. 

[basil67]

14 minutes ago, Thelambofdeth said:

 

Yet you have many women who do settle and it would be nice to find one who does.

 

 

How do you know that all these women have settled?   Have they told you so?   I will grant you that it's sometimes difficult for us as outsiders to see what the attraction is, but it doesn't mean that they've settled.   He could be the love of their lives for all we know.  

 

And why do you want a woman who 'settles' for you rather than one who loves you for who you are?

[Thelambofdeth]

55 minutes ago, basil67 said:

 

How do you know that all these women have settled?   Have they told you so?   I will grant you that it's sometimes difficult for us as outsiders to see what the attraction is, but it doesn't mean that they've settled.   He could be the love of their lives for all we know.  

 

Because people settle all the time. I'm not implying everyone settles and there aren't people truly and totally in love with their ideal preference. But it's naive and stupid to assume every couple going around happened to find their perfect preferential match. People settle all the time for any number of reasons. Desperation, a need not to be alone because their preferences are unrealistic given their current situation, etc. Hell, people get into relationships just because or because they're afraid to truly go for what they want.

 

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And why do you want a woman who 'settles' for you rather than one who loves you for who you are?

 

lols because for people like me that's an unrealistic pipe dream. At this point i'd be lucky just to have someone, period. If you're someone who can go out and easily meet people, then yes you have the luxury of finding someone who "truly" loves you. It's a haystack-esque needle for me to find a woman in her late 20s, who's still single, looking to date at that time, and also finds me attractive, let alone have anything in common with me. I'd have better luck with the lottery.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Thelambofdeth

[preraph]

Neither friends nor love interests are interested in people who are not entertaining on some level. People want to have fun and a few laughs. Sounds basic, but it's something to remember. Why would you even take on a friend who wasn't entertaining. You'd be bored in no time. Make an effort to be entertaining and fun. 

[basil67]

Can some people settle?  Sure.  But I doubt that it's "many" women.   All the women I've known were very much in love when they married.    Have you had conversations with people which demonstrate otherwise?  

 

As for your assertion that it's a pipe dream for you, just a few posts back you told us about how you were able to easily engage with a couple of women and they gave you their number.  So if you can do it twice, you can do it more.     Out of curiosity, what was the outcome with these two women?

 

 

[Thelambofdeth]

19 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Can some people settle?  Sure.  But I doubt that it's "many" women.   All the women I've known were very much in love when they married.    Have you had conversations with people which demonstrate otherwise?  

 

As for your assertion that it's a pipe dream for you, just a few posts back you told us about how you were able to easily engage with a couple of women and they gave you their number.  So if you can do it twice, you can do it more.     Out of curiosity, what was the outcome with these two women?

 

 

I mean, what about all the people who get married and divorced? And the people who are dating in the interim of finding their perfect match. etc? IDK maybe you just know a ton of lucky people who just always find their ideal mate.

 

That's what frustrating...that only happens when women are bold enough to approach me, which is uber rare. That's not something I can really depend on. And those women happened to be more attractive that the women I would've approached if I could, so I can't even nail down the kind of women that would be attracted to me. 

 

The first I couldn't really tell she was interested until(which also happened the two previous times I was hit on) after, the the other I inadvertently became pretty cold towards.

[Thelambofdeth]

37 minutes ago, preraph said:

Neither friends nor love interests are interested in people who are not entertaining on some level. People want to have fun and a few laughs. Sounds basic, but it's something to remember. Why would you even take on a friend who wasn't entertaining. You'd be bored in no time. Make an effort to be entertaining and fun. 

Fun and entertainment is pretty subjective. But in most cases that just means being extroverted, which doesn't come natural to everyone. Not to mention it's just a lot easier to ingratiate yourself to some than others.

[elaine567]

Do you struggle with reading body language? 
Why are you becoming cold towards "attractive" women who are making the effort to speak to you...?

[elaine567]

Many introverts are very funny people, one doesn't need to be the life and soul of the party to be entertaining.

[Thelambofdeth]

16 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Do you struggle with reading body language? 
Why are you becoming cold towards "attractive" women who are making the effort to speak to you...?

I actually believe i'm great at deciphering body language considering i'm usually observing in lieu of participating. I've seen how woman routinely act towards men they're interested in, and even with the supposed women who were interested they didn't exhibit the same behavior...

 

Why do you have attractive in quotations? And idk. I suppose I can't really believe they're interested and I subconsciously sabotage the situation.

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, Thelambofdeth said:

Why do you have attractive in quotations? And idk. I suppose I can't really believe they're interested and I subconsciously sabotage the situation.

Because attractive was your subjective assessment of their looks. i.e they were genuinely attractive to you, yet you still sabotaged it.
Sabotage I think is an important word.
If you don't'really try, you never actually fail, you don't get rejected and you don't get hurt.
It is a great defence mechanism 

[Thelambofdeth]

23 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Because attractive was your subjective assessment of their looks. i.e they were genuinely attractive to you, yet you still sabotaged it.
Sabotage I think is an important word.
If you don't'really try, you never actually fail, you don't get rejected and you don't get hurt.
It is a great defence mechanism 

That's the difference. These weren't the kind of girls I found attractive in a niche sense or something bc they had dark hair and tattoos. These were objectively, conventionally attractive women. Not saying they're supermodels or whatever, but if that's what made me more hesitant to accept it. If somethings too good to be true, it always it. 

 

But yeah, tbh that train of thinking i probably it. I don't do it purposely, but it happens nearly whenever I get a shot.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Thelambofdeth

[elaine567]

If they weren't the kind of girls you personally found attractive then I guess you were right to reject.
We all have our own preference of who we actually find attractive.
Sometimes that is not the immediately obvious choice. Some guys are just sex on legs....
That is why some guys with dad bods are sought after and other guys with six packs cannot find a girl for love nor money...

[Thelambofdeth]

10 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

If they weren't the kind of girls you personally found attractive then I guess you were right to reject.
We all have our own preference of who we actually find attractive.
Sometimes that is not the immediately obvious choice. Some guys are just sex on legs....
That is why some guys with dad bods are sought after and other guys with six packs cannot find a girl for love nor money...

No, i'm not saying I didn't find them attractive. I'm saying they were  really pretty and I didn't really know how to react. The one I was cold to was actually an introvert and kind of quirky. (Hell, I met her at a party but I avoided her the whole time because two guys were hounding her the whole night. The next time I say her at a bar apparently she noticed me and asked about me.)

 

It's not "they weren't my type". It's more "why do they want to talk to me?" Then I literally cant compute it and put a wall up.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Thelambofdeth

[preraph]

Lamby, I like you but you need therapy. Your self-esteem is very low and you need to go work on that with a psychologist. I see you as someone with potential but you have a serious self-esteem problem that is always going to hold you back until you deal with it.

[basil67]

5 hours ago, Thelambofdeth said:

I mean, what about all the people who get married and divorced? And the people who are dating in the interim of finding their perfect match. etc? IDK maybe you just know a ton of lucky people who just always find their ideal mate.

 

I would suggest that most of the people who marry and later divorce wouldn't have said they were settling when they married.   I'm divorced, but was madly in love with him when we married.   The people who are dating while looking for their perfect match?  Well they haven't settled yet, have they.

 

I notice the words 'ideal' and 'perfect match' in your reply and I think this is why you believe that people settle.  There is no such thing as ideal.  There's no such thing as perfect match.  But in my eyes, genuine love and acceptance of someone who's 90 or 95% wonderful doesn't equate to settling.   If you found a wonderful woman who you loved spending time with, great sex, was fun to be with and loved you deeply.....but wasn't a supermodel and didn't like your music, I doubt you'd view a relationship with her as settling.   You'd likely be counting your blessings that you found someone who ticked so many boxes.

 

Glass half full:  partner is wonderful because they tick so many boxes.   Glass half empty: partner isn't perfect so therefore I'm settling.     

 

Regarding getting approached, you could raise your chances substantially if you worked on your styling, confidence and smile.   Please go and seek some help.  It won't be a quick fix, but this is a very poor state you're in at present.

Edited December 27, 2019 by basil67

[Thelambofdeth]

58 minutes ago, basil67 said:

 

I would suggest that most of the people who marry and later divorce wouldn't have said they were settling when they married.   I'm divorced, but was madly in love with him when we married.   The people who are dating while looking for their perfect match?  Well they haven't settled yet, have they.

 

I mean if you say so. It's a matter of semantics. Too much depends on each person, the circumstance, things changing, standards, what someone considers setting, etc. It's pretty relative and you can get survives and statistics to prove pretty much anything. It just depends.

 

Quote

I notice the words 'ideal' and 'perfect match' in your reply and I think this is why you believe that people settle.  There is no such thing as ideal.  There's no such thing as perfect match.  But in my eyes, genuine love and acceptance of someone who's 90 or 95% wonderful doesn't equate to settling.   If you found a wonderful woman who you loved spending time with, great sex, was fun to be with and loved you deeply.....but wasn't a supermodel and didn't like your music, I doubt you'd view a relationship with her as settling.   You'd likely be counting your blessings that you found someone who ticked so many boxes.

 

Glass half full:  partner is wonderful because they tick so many boxes.   Glass half empty: partner isn't perfect so therefore I'm settling.     

 

Perhaps a "perfect match" isn't highly plausible, but an ideal partner is certainly a viable and common construct. And to be fair, finding someone comparable with that many positives is a lot more possible/realistic for some than it is for others. Finding someone who's 90% a a preference is easily close enough to perfect,  sure. But that's certainly not readily available for everyone. Not even close. Hypothetical or at the most theoretical in my case. 

 

 

[preraph]

It will be hard to find someone unless you are just very lucky because you are so what I call specialized and you're unwilling to make changes at all, and because in general, women are not attracted to low-self-esteem (low confidence) men.  And even when they are, sounds like you are too low self-esteem to do anything but push them away and that's why you do need to get in therapy and try to break through that, understand how it got started and work through that.  I think you have tremendous potential.  You're smart, good looking, and dress nice.  It's your low self-worth holding you back.  

[Thelambofdeth]

7 hours ago, preraph said:

It will be hard to find someone unless you are just very lucky because you are so what I call specialized and you're unwilling to make changes at all, and because in general, women are not attracted to low-self-esteem (low confidence) men.  And even when they are, sounds like you are too low self-esteem to do anything but push them away and that's why you do need to get in therapy and try to break through that, understand how it got started and work through that.  I think you have tremendous potential.  You're smart, good looking, and dress nice.  It's your low self-worth holding you back.  

Yes, I will have to change. At least somewhat. Improve. I'm just...not going to therapy so I will just have to change myself, in ways that I can. Or else I will just end up alone.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Thelambofdeth

[preraph]

The best place to explore what made you have low self-esteem is therapy.  One reason is that as children, when this usually starts, kids tend to take on blame for things that aren't their fault, and an objective therapist can point out why someone might have said or done this or that to you and explain to you why that's not your fault.  Sometimes it comes from having a critical person in your life.  Sounds like you like your mom, so maybe it's not.  Sometimes it's some abandonment or neglect.  It can even be bullying at some age that makes people feel they're not good enough.  Most of us have had a dose of that.  It's important to learn to just understand where bullies are coming from and let that go.  Also, a behavior therapist can simulate some of the situations you find yourself freezing up in and practice you out of reacting the way you always do.  Practice does help because it makes new neural pathways with repetition and becomes the more automatic response rather than the one you've always had.  Behavior modification.

 

The other thing that builds self-esteem besides getting to the root of the problem is doing things for yourself and having your own accomplishments and successes.  I feel you are already working on doing some of that, right?  It makes you feel good when you take on something and do well at it.  

Edited December 27, 2019 by preraph

[Thelambofdeth]

19 hours ago, preraph said:

The best place to explore what made you have low self-esteem is therapy.  One reason is that as children, when this usually starts, kids tend to take on blame for things that aren't their fault, and an objective therapist can point out why someone might have said or done this or that to you and explain to you why that's not your fault.  Sometimes it comes from having a critical person in your life.  Sounds like you like your mom, so maybe it's not.  Sometimes it's some abandonment or neglect.  It can even be bullying at some age that makes people feel they're not good enough.  Most of us have had a dose of that.  It's important to learn to just understand where bullies are coming from and let that go.  Also, a behavior therapist can simulate some of the situations you find yourself freezing up in and practice you out of reacting the way you always do.  Practice does help because it makes new neural pathways with repetition and becomes the more automatic response rather than the one you've always had.  Behavior modification.

 

The other thing that builds self-esteem besides getting to the root of the problem is doing things for yourself and having your own accomplishments and successes.  I feel you are already working on doing some of that, right?  It makes you feel good when you take on something and do well at it.  

That's the thing, my low self esteem isn't all encompassing. I have price and like many aspects of myself and my attributes. I appreciate my body, my intellect and many components of my personality. At this point it stems almost soley to my self-worth with women, and I didn't really have that earlier in life. Which is why I'm convinced its something I can handle myself...