I think my girlfriend has an avoidant attachment

[edgygirl]

Disagree. There are many types of specialization in psychology.

 

I went to a CBT trained one for 2 years and she never realized I have insecure attachment. His GF should consult an attachment specialized therapist. Only they can diagnose this, most therapists have no clue. I know a lot about the subject and not just blurbing something out.

 

Again- Nothing wrong with researching and then going to the right professional to confirm.

 

You are armchair diagnosing someone who is already under the guidance of a professional.

Truth is so many psychological issues are not specific to a diagnosis, they are just symptoms, which alone mean little, but together build a picture which a professional can then make a educated judgement upon.

If you read the internet blurb about any psychological issue you will find many points where you can go "Aha, that is the problem", but with an untrained and uneducated eye you could get it all very wrong.

A lay person tends to gravitate towards the stuff that fits and they forget about the stuff that doesn't, that is why it needs people trained to be unbiased and consider all angles before "labelling" people.

[edgygirl]

Agree. And that’s because most therapists have no clue about attachment style. It seems like they have to specialize in it to really know about the subject. I feel the therapy I did helped zero because of it. I find it so flabbergasting.

 

 

The behavior that describes attachment issues can certainly come up in therapy ... but usually it comes up in dealing with boundaries and self-awareness ... and in lessening anxiety ... and developing more confidence ... I've been to therapy many times, I don't once recall someone using the term "attachment." ... But once I learned of that term, I can see that a ton of work I did in therapy related to attachment.

[I'veseenbetterlol]

After a few strikeouts when dating, I personally believe there aren't such defined attachment styles. To me it all boils down to having interest or not having any interest. I used to think I had anxious attachment until I met my partner. In this relationship, I feel extremely secure because he loves me and is constantly showing me love.

 

 

Putting attachment labels on your partner is doing yourself a disservice. Its almost like giving an excuse for the other person to treat you very coldly. You try w/everything you have to get that person back thinking there is something wrong w/you. In the end the person is just treating you like crap. If someone loves you, they love you period, no ifs ands or buts about it. They will treat you like they love you.

[edgygirl]

I'veseenbetterlol - respectfully, it seems like you didn’t study enough attachment theory.

 

By the very definition, if you’re dating a secure person, the insecure attachment lessens significantly or even gets “corrected” if you stay with them long enough. I believe this is true specially for anxiously insecure, with avoidants it’s more complicated.

 

That’s what happened when I was in a LTR with a secure person. But as I didn’t know about it and didn’t do the real work behind it, it reappeared with new partners. Also because I’m both anxious and avoidant, it went well a few years but my avoidant side made me kick him in the end.

Edited March 3, 2019 by edgygirl

[some_username1]

I'veseenbetterlol - respectfully, it seems like you didn’t study enough attachment theory.

 

By the very definition, if you’re dating a secure person, the insecure attachment lessens significantly or even gets “corrected” if you stay with them long enough. I believe this is true specially for anxiously insecure, with avoidants it’s more complicated.

 

That’s what happened when I was in a LTR with a secure person. But as I didn’t know about it and didn’t do the real work behind it, it reappeared with new partners. Also because I’m both anxious and avoidant, it went well a few years but my avoidant side made me kick him in the end.

 

Dangerous advice imo as I think it feeds into what OP wants to hear and a person could latch on to that and think "if I just give it X number of months/years she will be the woman she was when we met!" when nobody even knows if there is a problem in the first place as far as she is concerned. I would gently suggest that the tone sounds worryingly like OP now sees her as a 'problem' that he is committed to 'fixing' so that she is 'back' to the perfect partner for him that she once was and once this attachment theory notion starts snowballing and OP gets enough positive reinforcement about it it's the perfect excuse to rationalise and justify persisting with a situation that is not working. It doesn't sound like OP's gf is treating him well, but she can act like that simply of her own free will because that's just the way she is, they just aren't suited.

 

In other words, I think attachment theory is great for working on yourself but latching onto it as a diagnosis for a partner is very dangerous territory as Occam's Razor would suggest it's something far simpler like "she just isn't into you" or some such and really, none of us can tell the difference or know any better because trying to tell the difference between genuine indifference and genuine avoidance because of fears/anxieties must be like trying to spot the differences between a set of identical twins.

[FMW]

So if the girlfriend does have this attachment style, what does knowing that really do for OP? She's still going to do the things she does and that just leaves OP with having to accept and adjust his expectations.

 

Wouldn't it be best to find someone with a compatible attachment style, just like with other elements of compatibility?

 

That's a serious question, I'm not being dismissive or trying to antagonize.

[elaine567]

His GF should consult an attachment specialized therapist. .

 

Who says she is "avoidant" or has attachment issues?

All very well for someone to make a tentative self diagnosis after years of self reflection and first hand knowledge of their own psyche, but Trail Blazer had never heard of attachment issues until a few days ago and he has no actual idea of how his gf truly feels or thinks.

[BaileyB]

Who says she is "avoidant" or has attachment issues?

All very well for someone to make a tentative self diagnosis after years of self reflection and first hand knowledge of their own psyche, but Trail Blazer had never heard of attachment issues until a few days ago and he has no actual idea of how his gf truly feels or thinks.

 

Agree. And further to Findingmyway’s previous post, let’s say she is avoidant attachment - what does that change? He is still going to need to adapt or leave the relationship... It’s never a good idea to enter a relationship hoping or expecting someone to change. She is who she is, and if you are not compatible then you have a decision to make.

[some_username1]

Who says she is "avoidant" or has attachment issues?

All very well for someone to make a tentative self diagnosis after years of self reflection and first hand knowledge of their own psyche, but Trail Blazer had never heard of attachment issues until a few days ago and he has no actual idea of how his gf truly feels or thinks.

 

Yes, and to expand on my point about 'fixing' her, there is a danger of OP making it all about him, ie "she isn't behaving the way I want and it's because a book and someone on the internet told me she has X problem so I'm going to fix X problem so she will be perfect for me and she will be happy herself by proxy". Sorry if that is wide of the mark OP, I just don't get a sense in all this diagnosing that this is being done to help her be a better person immaterial of whether she changes for the better with you. The tone seems to be "how can I magic her back to the person she was when I.met her?"

 

What needs to be established first and foremost, regardless of what anyone on jere tells you about attachment theory and it's pros and cons, is what *she* actually wants from the relationship. She might be perfectly fine with it. The problem is you have tried being indirect, you have tried being up front and nothing changes. Now you are scouring the internet for theories that allow you to do some mental gymnastics in joining the dots to come up with an explanation that gives you something to work on. You just need to flat out speak to her and find out if she is capable of adapting to your needs.

[elaine567]

The tone seems to be "how can I magic her back to the person she was when I.met her?"

Yes.

What needs to be established first and foremost, regardless of what anyone on jere tells you about attachment theory and it's pros and cons, is what *she* actually wants from the relationship. She might be perfectly fine with it.

Again yes.

 

The gf is "hot", Trail Blazer has said he is punching above his weight, and the sex at the start was fantastic and frequent.

Now she is not so enthusiastic to see him, she is tired due to other commitments(child) and issues(bereavement), and the sex is infrequent.

 

He would dump her, but he does not think he will manage to get someone equal in "hotness", so he is making the best of a bad job, BUT if it is possible to "fix" her it would be a dream come true...

He then gets the woman he wants.

 

Other thread

[some_username1]

Yes.

 

Again yes.

 

The gf is "hot", Trail Blazer has said he is punching above his weight, and the sex at the start was fantastic and frequent.

Now she is not so enthusiastic to see him, she is tired due to other commitments(child) and issues(bereavement), and the sex is infrequent.

 

He would dump her, but he does not think he will manage to get someone equal in "hotness", so he is making the best of a bad job, BUT if it is possible to "fix" her it would be a dream come true...

He then gets the woman he wants.

 

Other thread

 

Yeah I saw that thread and that is partly what has informed my responses in this thread so far. I had a lot of sympathy for OP's tribulations previously, and I still do, but that thread about how attractive he finds his gf to be has shifted the focus a bit from "my gf is not pulling her weight in the relationship" to "I know things are bad but I'm not quitting because she's hot and I won't find anyone else that hot". Thus it has now become less about OP not getting his needs met, elsewhere if need be and more about fixing things at all costs when no-one knows what she really thinks or if she sees a problem.

 

I think it speaks to some confidence issues with the OP also that he would have such a fearful mindset about his prospects were he to move on and that isn't helping. I'm reminded of Robert De Niro's line in Heat about a man being able to leave everything in his life at the drop of a hat. A bit extreme, but you get my point.

[Tamfana]

In a disposable world, I like to be someone who still sees value in something when others may just simply move on to the next thing. I am somewhat dissatisfied with my relationship a lot of the time. I guess the way I look at it is that as long as it's not having a negative impact on me (apart from being a bit frustrated at times I am coping just fine) then if I have the mental reserves to withstand some rough waters, I'll try to navigate through and hope we can reach calmer waters together. If the ship ever starts really sinking, then I'll know it's time to jump.

 

What are the rough waters? Mutual dissatisfaction or your dissatisfaction?

[Trail Blazer]

It's funny you say that, some_username. After reflecting for a couple of days of no contact, I asked my girlfriend if she was available to talk. This was yesterday afternoon, to which she agreed. So, I was over at her house last night, after she had put her boy to bed and we spoke for about an hour.

 

Now, before I decided to go over, I had been feeling like things really are a bit of a lost cause. After unhealthily binging on a few red pill YouTube videos for the first time ever, it certainly painted a grim picture of things, even after you push some of the exceedingly OTT misogyny to one side.

 

I'm not going to say that watching these videos brought about "lightbulb moments", but they certainly made me consider some harsh realities which some of you guys had already been advocating for on some of my previous threads.

 

I won't get into much detail about how the conversation went down, other than to say that the conversation was respectful. Neither of us are angry people at all, so we calmly discussed, or merely scratched the surface if you will, on some of her issues. Now I say her issues, because I didn't actually raise any of my own issues in that particular conversation.

 

When we first sat down at the dining table and I took my first sip of coffee, I told my girlfriend that I know we have a lot of issues to work through and that we're only going to be able to do that through effective communication. I went on to say that while I have a few grievances and many observations, it was more important for me to hear her point of view, understand what's bothering her instead of firing all of my observations at her and only getting responses.

 

An air of calmness seemed to go over my girlfriend and she seemed quite relaxed as she told me what was bothering her.

 

Last night was about listening to understand, and understand only. The time to reply was not last nighg.

And, while I am certainly a little clearer on

the degree to which things I'd suspected were bothering her were actually bothering her, it's her reactions to those things which seems peversely illogical. The words came out of her mouth, but the actions still make little sense.

 

I am fast approaching the point where I think that any further attempt to rectify the relationship is futile. At this point in time, it would appear that all hope is lost.

 

I plan to chat again in a few day's time. I am carefully considering my responses to her, as I intend to this time address the issues she's raised, as well as put into perspective how her behavior has affected me.

 

This girl seems very insular, passively reactive and not very empathetic at all. She's emotionally immature and displays a strong propensity to retreat to a mental safe space when things arise that she can't process. She puts up walls at a moment's notice and shuts out the things, people or situations which cause her any kind of stress. Or, at least, that's what I can surmise if all that she's told me is indeed correct.

 

My honest view, my gut instinct, is that she's just not attracted to me any more and she's been letting me down gently for months. It feels as if, at one fleeting moment l, she decided that she couldn't see me as the father of the child she wants to have, as the stepfather to her child and, the most important part, her life partner and lover.

 

So, when we next meet up to chat, I plan to take her to task by highlighting all of the inconsistencies of her story. I plan to let her know in a calm and solemn way, that her management of the issues she has are counter-intuitive to resolution discourse and the building walls, going cold and pulling away are actually toxic.

 

I was fooled by the sweet, softly spoken voice and pretty little face into thinking she was a very kind, caring and trustworthy person. I actually think that she is still all that in various forms, but to me, it ended when whatever issues she has took over her ability to effectively communicate with me. Those issues, whatever they are, are seemingly insurmountable.

 

If we break up, which I think is only inevitable, I can only thank my lucky stars that she started behaving like this now, and not in 5 years where she may have had a ring on her finger, a bun in the oven and a roof over head provided by yours truly.

 

If we do indeed break up, I'm chalking this down to experience and preparing myself very differently for when I ever decide to throw my hat in the dating ring again. My eyes are open to just how fickle people can be and how they can so easily flip flop being how they feel about someone.

[elaine567]

OK loads of what you surmise, what your interpretation is, your assumptions, your gut instinct, some digs about her character and a lot of catastrophizing here, but what did she actually say?

[BaileyB]

So, when we next meet up to chat, I plan to take her to task by highlighting all of the inconsistencies of her story.

 

Why would you need to do this? If you have decided that it’s not working for you and you plan to break up with this woman... why not take the high road and just tell her that you believe you are incompatible and that the relationship has run it’s couse? Her problems are her problems, not yours.

 

Respectfully, who are you to tell her what her issues are and “take this woman to task.” Your attitude comes across as very arrogant, condescending, and entitled. If a man ever did this to me, I would be gone before you even finished your sentence...

Edited March 3, 2019 by BaileyB

[Tamfana]

That conversation was not in good faith. It was a set up to get her to tell you her thoughts and feelings so you can reject them then take her to task, all done after watching red pill stuff to fire you up. For mercy sake, end it.

[Trail Blazer]

Yes.

 

Again yes.

 

The gf is "hot", Trail Blazer has said he is punching above his weight, and the sex at the start was fantastic and frequent.

Now she is not so enthusiastic to see him, she is tired due to other commitments(child) and issues(bereavement), and the sex is infrequent.

 

He would dump her, but he does not think he will manage to get someone equal in "hotness", so he is making the best of a bad job, BUT if it is possible to "fix" her it would be a dream come true...

He then gets the woman he wants.

 

Other thread

 

I may have somewhat overstated how much I am punching above my weight. It's not as though I'm a short, balding man with a pronounced dad body. I am very fit, work out and would consider myself somewhat attractive. I mean, if I wasn't I wouldn't have attracted her in the first place.

 

Sure, put my next to, say, Chris Hemsworth and I'd fall exceedingly short (literally and metaphorically speaking), but then, so too would almost every guy. But, I digress... my point is that I don't fear my ability to attract another decent looking woman. As good looking as her? Well, that's hard to say. Looks are always subjective. So, while I wouldn't sit here saying she's the hottest girl that ever graced this earth, she may as well me in my eyes. She's just got a thing about her that gets me pumping like no girl has before.

 

It's a dangerous situation when someone has a hold over you like this. For someone who prides himself on being logical and rational, it's hard knowing I'm a slave to my base drive - to pair bond with someone who's genes just scream out to me, "I was my baby inside of you!"

 

I am learning. I'm learning to let go. I'm rationalizing where it went wrong. It is a rebound relationship and I fell in the arms of a much more attractive, younger woman than my wife who was providing me with the best sex I've ever had in abundant quantities. Having a very high sex drive constantly challenges my inhibitions and a somewhat slave to my penis. I'm the poster boy for that saying, "men thibk with their d@*ks." I am trying to change, though.

[BaileyB]

That conversation was not in good faith. It was a set up to get her to tell you her thoughts and feelings so you can reject them then take her to task, all done after watching red pill stuff to fire you up. For mercy sake, end it.

 

Exactly.

 

It’s manipulative, and weak. Just make a decision. Call it a day, but do it with kindness, allowing both partners to save face and move on with dignity.

[Trail Blazer]

OK loads of what you surmise, what your interpretation is, your assumptions, your gut instinct, some digs about her character and a lot of catastrophizing here, but what did she actually say?

 

She thinks I have too much baggage from my previous marriage and we're at different stages which is preventing us from moving forward.

[BaileyB]

She thinks I have too much baggage from my previous marriage and we're at different stages which is preventing us from moving forward.

 

Probably very true.

 

Also, you are a slave to your penis, and she doesn’t have the time or the patience for that anymore...

[elaine567]

She thinks I have too much baggage from my previous marriage and we're at different stages which is preventing us from moving forward.

She may have a good point. No?

You leapt into this relationship straight from your marriage.

As seen on the "wedding thread" your ex is still occupying a big part of your attention which is not really surprising in the circumstances.

You never processed properly the ending of your marriage.

[elaine567]

Also, you are a slave to your penis..

 

^^^That too.

[Trail Blazer]

That conversation was not in good faith. It was a set up to get her to tell you her thoughts and feelings so you can reject them then take her to task, all done after watching red pill stuff to fire you up. For mercy sake, end it.

I can see why would think that, but it's not strictly true. I had planned to talk to her at some point soon and I'd not gone out of my way to arm myself with red pill propaganda before seeing her. I only stumbled across this red pill stuff by accident after researching things after discovering avoidant attachment.

[some_username1]

It's funny you say that, some_username. After reflecting for a couple of days of no contact, I asked my girlfriend if she was available to talk. This was yesterday afternoon, to which she agreed. So, I was over at her house last night, after she had put her boy to bed and we spoke for about an hour.

 

 

I am sorry to hear about the severity of the situation but unlike the others I applaud your handling of it by at least confronting her and your self awareness to know that things are at a critical point and can't go on as they are.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like you had much dating experience between your last marriage and this girl then if you are just realising the fickleness of relationships! Online dating has made the dating landscape for men very much like a novelty toy factory, one day all the girls want a Buzz Lightyear the next they want the special edition Woody and you find yourself sat on the shelf at the second hand store bemused at how you got there.

 

The trick is to accept it and take it in your stride. Concentrate on what you can change and control and that is only ever you, yourself

and most of all your emotional state. Which is why I would be wary of that red pill stuff. It's useful in the sense it can help a man grow a spine but too many go off the deep end and once they understand the problem (I believe the whole hypergamy/80-20 rule/evolutionary biology stuff is very close to how things are these days) they realise that understanding the problem doesn't actually solve the problem and they become bitter and end up parrotting reams of stuff on Reddit about 80-20 etc. You can say it as much as you like but typing it out won't help you, it will only entrench it further in your mind and take you further away from what you want. But I digress...

 

The answer, imo, lies somehwere in that line about "the best revenge is living well". It's not about revenge, but more moving on and liking yourself and liking who you are and having faith that that alone will naturally bring the right person into your life. And if it doesn't, hey, if you are truly living well then a life partner can only add to that so it isn't the end of the world if that ship has already sailed.

 

Good luck OP. I wish you well.

Edited March 3, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Trail Blazer]

Probably very true.

 

Also, you are a slave to your penis, and she doesn’t have the time or the patience for that anymore...

 

It's true only because she chooses it to be true. It's actually irrelevant as it's not encumbering our relationship. I'm dealing with it in my own time and I'm not emotionally dumping anything on her. You see, she thinks I'm hiding stuff from her wheb she asks what's going on, then when I think she's showing interest and wants to be supportive, she makes suggestions which aren't practical and gets offended when I don't adopt them and thinks I'm taking my exes side.

 

You know, I think it's a bit rich to accuse me of having baggage on one hand, but on the other hand expect me to not only accept her ever present baggage, but to embrace said baggage with grace and aplomb. I mean, that's only fair if I wish to entertain a relationship with a single mother. But man, it's a thankless task being a step parent and I've done it for 13 years with two different women.

 

My girlfriend, who'll we'll just call 'V', told me that she's always been the one in relationships to put herself and her needs second to her partner's. That's funny, because she's doing a damned good job of changing that in this relationship. She's done a good job of creating a scenario where I jump through hoops, pander to her emotional needs all in the hope that I'll be rewarded by having my needs met.

 

V told me that when we first spoke online, I had told her that the ex and I were on good terms and that "doesn't really seem to be thrme case." I told her that we were on good terms at the time. I then asked her if she was implying I had been less than honest, to which she replied, "no... but there must have been issues." "Of course there were issues, I said. No body separates without issues, but things changed and it got worse." V said I should have thought about that before dating, to which I replied, "I could have waited years and unless she found someone else first, finding out that she's been replaced and realizing my daughter loves her replacement was always going to pi$$ her off."

 

I wonder why V liked the 'D' in the beginning, but decided she had no time for it 7 months into the relationship? I think there's more to it than those tired cliches like 'I'm too tired' or 'I have a headache.' She's pulled away because she's either got attachment issues, which fits with having daddy issues (her dad is aggressive and dominant and was emotionally absent to all of his kids), or she's just lost attraction. I think it's the latter.

 

I just take exception to being told that she's further down the path of being ready to have a functional relationship (I'm paraphrasing here as that isn't how she put it) when it's clear to me that she's not really in any position of being ready either, in my opinion. Either that, or she's only invested in what she can gain for her and her son and not what she can bring to the table herself.