Dearly Missing My AP / How Long Does the Pain Last?

[Mike1111]

Hi Everyone,

 

I was on vacation last week, so didn't have an opportunity to respond.

Elaine, Amethyst, Prudence and Pepperbird:

 

Thank you for the thought-provoking comments. I was surprised to hear that Prudence started out in separate countries also.

 

Interesting that Perpperbird reframes it as not choosing between two relationships, but rather as choosing the rest my life. Yikes, actually, as I think about that, it's pretty overwhelming. At my age (50), I would hope for perhaps a max of 30 years left, with maybe 20 of those years being "active". And then I'm worm food. So there's actually precious little time left, and it a person sure doesn't want to live it with regrets. The problem is right back tot he same place -- that regret could be letting Selena slip away and staying in my acceptable marriage, or the regret could be letting go of my acceptable marriage and hurting my wife. Seems like one or the other would be stick with you a loooong time.

 

Hhhhmmm, as I think about this, it might come down to a conundrum that I suspect many couples face: if you have a marriage that has companionship, friendship, and general compatibility -- do you count your blessings and stick with it? Or is "true love" worth pursuing? Or does "true love" even exist as such (Prudence says it does).

 

But, if I've figured out anything, it's this: for what it's worth, I will be with only one of two women for my last 30 years. And I'm very comfortable with that thought/concept. The desire to look elsewhere has definitely been purged from me, I feel it in my bones -- and that's the one good thing that has come out of this.

 

But, there's still that decision hanging out there . . . .

 

 

--Mike

[Prudence V]

Interesting that Perpperbird reframes it as not choosing between two relationships, but rather as choosing the rest my life. Yikes, actually, as I think about that, it's pretty overwhelming.

 

 

Not only Pepperbird. The second paragraph in

this post made a similar point.

 

It really shouldn’t be about you standing in the supermarket, choosing which brand to pick off the shelf. It’s about yourself, and the self you would like to be in the future - and which set of circumstances (which includes, but is not limited to, which - if either - partner) will facilitate that.

 

 

 

Or does "true love" even exist as such (Prudence says it does).

 

 

Nope, I didn’t say it’s out there to pluck off a tree. I said if you prioritise it, you can create and sustain that kind of relationship. Big difference. It’s not luck / fate / destiny / chance... it’s choice and effort.

[pepperbird]

Op,think of is this way. You're making it about these two women, when it's really got nothing to do with either one of them. It's about you and the type of person you want to be. It's not about buzzwords like "authentic" ( that's just an excuse people use for hurting others...it's really common, especially among those who have zero to no empathy for anyone else- i"authentic" usually equates to treating people like crud)

 

 

Think of your life say 20 years from now. How do you picture your life? What steps do you need to take to get there?

 

 

Whatever you decide, please do it soon. Ever hear the story of Pandora's Box? You've certainly opened it for your wife, and sadly, you've left it open so long that one of it's main scourges, hope, got out.You have given your wife hope, which is actually quite cruel.

 

 

I know it's hard, but you really need to pick a path and stick to it. If you can't do it alone, then sit down with your wife and be honest with her. If you need help, give her a link to your threads.

Give her the knowledge she needs to make a fully informed choice. Stop this dithering and going back and forth, as every day you do this, you are stealing a day away from you wife being able to find happiness and love for herself. If you care about her at all, you'll stop.

[AnneD]

I haven’t read all the responses so please forgive me if anything has been repeated.

 

I felt compelled to comment because your story sounds exactly like what my husband went through ending it with his OW. Except instead of a girl from another country, his OW was a 20 year old ?.

 

It dragged on for us for three years (and today we are a year into NC) Same thing. All the same feelings.

 

It does get better. It just takes time. And understanding and therapy. I don’t know if you are a religious person but for my husband, that’s what really helped him. There are some good videos out there about what marriage commitment really is, and not the selfish view of marriage most of us have today.

 

I think you need to turn yourself outward. You need to make a conscious effort to not dwell on the loss of Selena. Turn yourself toward your wife and your marriage and soak in all the info you can on true commitment and love vs limerance. If you are religious, turn to God (I have a great video if you’re interested) Try to look at your marriage in a different light. You mentioned she’s not very sexual possibly due to her abuse.....but...you knew that when you married her so it’s not really a reason for your affair.

 

Anyway, if my husband can come out of it and be ok, you can too. It almost killed my husband. Literally. And today we are happy and our marriage is better and we are thankful for the lessons learned

[somanymistakes]

Amethyst: 3-5% ??? Yikes. And 75% of those fail? So assuming the high end of marriage (5%), that means in total that about 1% of affairs result in a lasting, durable marriage. Those are some pretty stark numbers.

 

IIRC they're also basically made up. Everyone just cites the same blog posts, which have no sources themselves.

 

Expecting lasting marriages out of an affair is still a loser's bet, just be wary of citing the "stark numbers" as facts. It's almost impossible to get good statistics about affairs because affairs are all about lies and secrets.

 

Getting 'failure' rates for second marriages is much easier to do, because marriages and divorces are hard facts that are registered somewhere.

[pepperbird]

IIRC they're also basically made up. Everyone just cites the same blog posts, which have no sources themselves.

 

Expecting lasting marriages out of an affair is still a loser's bet, just be wary of citing the "stark numbers" as facts. It's almost impossible to get good statistics about affairs because affairs are all about lies and secrets.

 

Getting 'failure' rates for second marriages is much easier to do, because marriages and divorces are hard facts that are registered somewhere.

 

 

This article includes some interesting stats.

 

 

 

Marriages that End in Divorce After an Affair - Statistics | Futurescopes

[Prudence V]

This article includes some interesting stats.

 

 

 

Basically, a blog post quoting a journalistic (ie unscientific) survey of a specific group of people, which is being generalised beyond its population; and an anecdotal “study” of some religious counsellor drawing on his own client base. Hardly reliable stats.

 

If it was an undergraduate assignment, I’d grade it 30%.

[somanymistakes]

It looks like the article you linked, pepperbird, is just mashing a bunch of different stories together haphazardly. This bit:

 

Another study carried out by Frank Pittman found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was as high as 75 percent.

 

But they don't actually link to any study. And it sounds like this is actually referring to statistics about the failure rate of second marriages - which has nothing to do with 'those who married their lovers' since not all second marriages are that.

 

A lot of these "articles" about infidelity throw around the name of the late Frank Pittman, but without linking to any specifics about what he actually said. One blog post claims that he made these statements "Beyond Betrayal: Life after Infidelity" - but that's just a psychology today article and has no statistics in it at all.

 

The man did write a book in 1990 (Private Lies: Infidelity and the Betrayal of Intimacy) and it's possible that people are citing that, but they certainly aren't doing so in a clear way that allows you to look at the data. They're just cut-and-pasting from other blog posts and "common wisdom", and using his name in order to sound more official (and since he's dead, he can't complain).

 

The 'references' list at the bottom of the post doesn't actually provide ANY reference for either the Halper or Pittman quotes (They do correctly cite Betzig's Current Anthropology paper, though)

Edited February 18, 2019 by somanymistakes

[somanymistakes]

Huh. Now here's an interesting article which is a little more clear about what it's citing, though it admits that almost NONE of the information on the subject is actually scientific:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/apr/26/familyandrelationships2

 

For her book Quiet Desperation: The Truth About Successful Men, Dr Jan Halper interviewed 4,126 business executives. About 88% of them were as successful in the bedroom as they were in the boardroom, having at least one affair. But only 3% of those who left their wives did so for their mistresses.

 

Now, I still haven't read the original book. But this just goes to show how sloppy reporting can make a lot of difference.

 

Does that one study say:

 

* of the men in the study having affairs, only 3% of them married their mistresses

* of the men in the study who divorced their wives, only 3% of them did so for a mistress

* of the men in the study overall, only 3% of them married their mistresses

 

Because those are all totally different!

 

(And again, this is a very specific example of high-powered businessmen, who also had a much higher rate of affairs than normal men. 88% is not normal.)

 

People are constantly regurgitating these "statistics" and mixing them up completely.

Edited February 19, 2019 by somanymistakes

[AnneD]

Huh. Now here's an interesting article which is a little more clear about what it's citing, though it admits that almost NONE of the information on the subject is actually scientific:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/apr/26/familyandrelationships2

 

 

 

Now, I still haven't read the original book. But this just goes to show how sloppy reporting can make a lot of difference.

 

Does that one study say:

 

* of the men in the study having affairs, only 3% of them married their mistresses

* of the men in the study who divorced their wives, only 3% of them did so for a mistress

* of the men in the study overall, only 3% of them married their mistresses

 

Because those are all totally different!

 

(And again, this is a very specific example of high-powered businessmen, who also had a much higher rate of affairs than normal men. 88% is not normal.)

 

People are constantly regurgitating these "statistics" and mixing them up completely.

 

 

Now add and age gap in there. The bigger the age gap, the higher percentage of divorce

[sandylee1]

I'm quite late to this thread, but having trouble sleeping tonight across the pond.

 

You only get one life. There is no point being in a marriage and your heart is with another woman. It comes across as though you and your wife are not compatible in areas that are important to you. It also seems that she has always been this way and you married her regardless. So did she have so many other better qualities that enabled you to ignore the sex?

 

People live long these days. You're just 50, living another 30+ years unhappy is no good. You and your wife can find happiness elsewhere and she need not stoop to the level of helping her husband get over his mistress, be subjected to his mistress contacting her and be looking for online resources to help him stop loving his mistress.

 

I can only assume her self-esteem is very low to put herself through that and honestly can't imagine how I would feel if in the future my daughter did something like this to keep her husband. It would truly break my heart that she didn't value herself more and walk away.

 

About Selena and three major red flags I've picked up on -

 

I wouldn't be asking to see the photo of the son of guy I'd just met. Your initial post said she was rolling around in bed and found your wallet and was looking through and found several pictures of you and your wife. That's quite different to your later version of this event. As an aside, in this day and age of smartphones with cameras, I'm rather surprised you had several pictures of you and your wife in your wallet. Actually printing photos/getting them developed is so last century.

 

4 days in Argentina, this woman who wanted a long term relationship was now complicit in an affair with a MM! You put on the tinder post, you wanted 'adult fun'. Surely she could have used google translate and figured what that was. You say she's in a professional job, she's not stupid. Tinder is hardly used for people looking for serious relationships and certainly not in the higher up age bracket.

 

Then she thinks nothing of contacting your wife on FB as though they are friends. You confessed the affair to your wife, so what was the purpose of her contact? to exchange notes? I think she as trying to antagonise your wife and have her end the marriage, so you would be hers by default. How very disrespectful of her. This was making sure even while in Argentina, your wife would not forget that her existence or think she was out of the picture. She was asserting her place in your life and in your marriage. That was very much her saying "I'm not going anywhere".

 

Imagine your wife having an affair and the OM having the cheek to be messaging you, while he's sleeping (not literally) with your wife?

 

I've seen so many of these scam programs and seen how the whole family can be involved to make it look authentic for a long time. It seems too fishy to me. I wouldn't trust her one tiny bit.

 

If you do leave your wife (which might be for the best) be very careful with Selena. Safeguard all your financial information including credit cards.

[Luvmykidz]

It never goes away. I'm almost two years into cutting off the A and I'm still not over it. You have my sympathy.