Shortage of good men? or good-looking men?

[Southern Sun]

I think once you get past the first tranche of pairing up in the 20s of the HS sweethearts, the oops pregnancies and the "I can't wait to get married or live together and have kids" crowd and the second tranche in the late twenties, early thirties of the "educated" crowd, then you are then in player, commitmentphobe and/or Peter Pan territory or the divorcees.

Divorcees it seems to me like other divorcees with or without kids, as they can relate and are not so keen on single people.

I think single people scare them, so better to stick with their own crowd. Single people can be scary as they are the product of experience and will not put up with any old garbage and are often seriously looking for Mr/Miss Right and those can be big boots to fill.

 

I think this is super insightful. As well as what CptInsano (sic?) said. It is a timing issue. She missed the first two big opportunities, I think mainly because of the types of men she was with at those times. And now...she is not the right material for the kinds of men she wants (never married...perhaps she looks like a risk).

 

I tried to highlight the most important parts of your post. A lot of guys know to stay away from girls like your friend there. Years of dating douchebags takes its toll on ladies, and generally speaking, they are not so pleasant to date for the guy who comes after.

 

When a woman keeps running into so-called players, it basically means she is dating guys who can do better than her. At least, these guys think they can. I am no player, but you can bet your paycheck that a few women I met before my GF likely think I am. Just because I hook up with you and bounce because I don't think you are GF material doesn't make me a player. Much the same with those guys your friend meets.

 

Basically, it isn't that there is a serious lack of "quality" men for her, it's just that those quality men don't want her. That's why she thinks they are all players.

 

 

She wasn't bouncing around from DB to DB, hooking up with men who were better than her. Honestly, it's kind of the opposite. The first guy was her high school sweetheart and he had 'issues' (addiction problems), but she was in love and wasted years trying to "fix" him. When she realized how much time she was wasting, she moved on. I think that got her nearly into her mid 20s.

 

After a couple of years of dating around, she ended up with a guy who claimed to be totally serious about her, but then she found out (after she was very invested) that he had another girlfriend in another city. He lied and managed to string both of those women along off and on for YEARS.

 

I wouldn't call him quality. But to your point, he apparently thought pretty highly of himself!

 

She did have an epiphany finally and cut him loose. But not before wasting tons of time. She re-entered the dating market in her early 30s, and just is not having success.

[Cookiesandough]

Honestly you hear people 18-99 complaining about fboys and not having success on OLD. Your friend is far from alone. I think the point Enigma made and that I agree with is that if you're not being able to get and keep 'quality' guys interested...you might be aiming too high somewhere. Need self improvement or lowered standards.

 

 

i'm sorry to hear that C&d

 

Thanks, alpha =]

Edited November 13, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[thefooloftheyear]

I think a lot of women spent a lot of time chasing advanced degrees and their careers and forget that not only do a lot of guys(good guys as well) not care all that much about those attributes, they may have spent their best years for attracting a guy doing it....while a lot of the younger "good" guys were "settling" for the girl with the rocking body and the community college degree..

 

Not saying its something id want my daughter to do, but its probably a good reason a lot of women miss that "first wave" of good guys...

 

TFY

[BluEyeL]

I think a lot of women spent a lot of time chasing advanced degrees and their careers and forget that not only do a lot of guys(good guys as well) not care all that much about those attributes, they may have spent their best years for attracting a guy doing it....while a lot of the younger "good" guys were "settling" for the girl with the rocking body and the community college degree..

 

Not saying its something id want my daughter to do, but its probably a good reason a lot of women miss that "first wave" of good guys...

 

TFY

You're probably right but if I had a daughter I'd tell her to absolutely go ahead and pursue whatever will get her financial independence.

 

Despite all the complaining around the dating forums, it is very possible to marry happily later in life but being dependent on a man for your livelihood is a very bad idea. You can't really trust anyone and put your safety in anyone's hands. Become financially independent and you can also date and marry at the same time or if not, later is fine too.

[road]

I tried to highlight the most important parts of your post. A lot of guys know to stay away from girls like your friend there. Years of dating douchebags takes its toll on ladies, and generally speaking, they are not so pleasant to date for the guy who comes after.

 

When a woman keeps running into so-called players, it basically means she is dating guys who can do better than her. At least, these guys think they can. I am no player, but you can bet your paycheck that a few women I met before my GF likely think I am. Just because I hook up with you and bounce because I don't think you are GF material doesn't make me a player. Much the same with those guys your friend meets.

 

Basically, it isn't that there is a serious lack of "quality" men for her, it's just that those quality men don't want her. That's why she thinks they are all players.

 

Feminist's agenda says women should go out and have as much

premarital sex as the men.

 

Many men though still go by the wise old time saying of why

buy the cow when you get the milk for free.

[Nothingtolose]

Man...it's sad. If only you knew how much I regret the time I wasted, but I can't turn back the clock. I see loads of women (and I do not mean this in a harsh way) who are less attractive or even don't have much going for themselves, already married and with kids, to husbands who adore them...and the difference between them and me is that they were SMART. They went straight for the good guys, instead of wasting their time with fixer uppers. But again, all I can do is move forward, focus on myself, being the best version of me that I can, and hoping for the best

[Cookiesandough]

Man...it's sad. If only you knew how much I regret the time I wasted, but I can't turn back the clock. I see loads of women (and I do not mean this in a harsh way) who are less attractive or even don't have much going for themselves, already married and with kids, to husbands who adore them...and the difference between them and me is that they were SMART. They went straight for the good guys, instead of wasting their time with fixer uppers. But again, all I can do is move forward, focus on myself, being the best version of me that I can, and hoping for the best

 

True. I wish I would have found "the one" in college, but looking back, I didn't even have many options back then. I was sort of a late bloomer and guys barely noticed me until around 21....:[ Still, I think maybe I should have got a "good"guy...settled...but would I be happier? Probably not.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[jay1983]

Monogamy ain't for everybody.

[somanymistakes]

Feminist's agenda says women should go out and have as much

premarital sex as the men.

 

Many men though still go by the wise old time saying of why

buy the cow when you get the milk for free.

 

Feminist saying: why buy a man who thinks you're a cow?

[Nothingtolose]

True. I wish I would have found "the one" in college, but looking back, I didn't even have many options back then. I was sort of a late bloomer and guys barely noticed me until around 21....:[ Still, I think maybe I should have got a "good"guy...settled...but would I be happier? Probably not.

 

I know what you mean. A lot of the women I know who settled down younger, didn't get to do half of what I did. I've lived in 4 countries, traveled to 30+ countries. I certainly did not make finding the one a priority, but time passed and now I find myself at 33, wanting kids, and single. So yeah...hard to say if settling down younger would have been better, because I maybeI would have missed out on so much that I've been able to do because I wasn't tied down. I definitely don't regret the moving countries and traveling part, my regrets are only wasting time with the wrong men.

[Nothingtolose]

Feminist saying: why buy a man who thinks you're a cow?

 

Agreed. Another funny thing: men really do love the chase, the pursuit, the demsel-in-distress-waiting-for-her-saviour thing. I'm on a couple of different online dating apps, and have decided to run a little experiment over the past week lol.

 

Upon matching with a guy, I initiated the conversation with a few of them starting with the basics "Hey X, how's your day going?" - the majority responded and a conversation then followed. With about 3 or 4 other guys, I initiated by paying them a compliment, such as "you've got a really nice smile in your second picture :)" or "you have really nice eyes". It's the modern times, so women should also be able to "court" a guy, right? Apparently not, as NONE of these guys responded. Not a single one. So me being confident, approaching them and paying them a compliment, instead of waiting for them to pursue me, is a turn off for them.

[thefooloftheyear]

You're probably right but if I had a daughter I'd tell her to absolutely go ahead and pursue whatever will get her financial independence.

 

Despite all the complaining around the dating forums, it is very possible to marry happily later in life but being dependent on a man for your livelihood is a very bad idea. You can't really trust anyone and put your safety in anyone's hands. Become financially independent and you can also date and marry at the same time or if not, later is fine too.

 

Looking at my post, not sure if you may have misunderstood...I am in agreement with you....

 

The problem lies in that most don't really realize how fast the window closes...A lot of women wind up in their 30's after several years of higher ed and chasing the dream job, maybe their looks starting to fade, a little tired and a few pounds heavier...And now they are demanding the world of everyone?? ...Bio clock ticking...Baby fever and she's been to a couple dozen bridal/baby showers already..."Wait...where are all the "good guys"??? the handsome and Alpha types ..."All that's out here now are pot smoking basement dwellers and frumpy looking "nice guys" that haven't had a girlfriend in their lives"..And what's left of the unspoken for "good" ones are fishing for younger hotties..

 

But yes, I do agree about the financial independence part....I guess if you are a woman and go that route and want the top tier guys,keep in mind what keeps guys really interested in the end...Its not everything, but its a lot of it...

 

TFY

Edited November 14, 2017 by thefooloftheyear

[JuneL]

It's also so much easier for a woman to maintain her attractive looks than to pursue her dream education/career, especially being financially independent allows her to afford the nice stuff to maintain her looks (e.g., outfits, skin and hair products, gym memberships, cooking classes). Depending on the type of career one is pursuing, there can be a very narrow window. For example, if you want to have an academic career in pure mathematics or theoretical physics, you pretty much have to get your Ph.D. by your mid/late 20s. I often find that those of my college friends who got married early (in their mid/late 20s) tend to let themselves go in the looks department, whereas those who are still single in their 30s actually look better compared to their younger years.

 

Looking at my post, not sure if you may have misunderstood...I am in agreement with you....

 

The problem lies in that most don't really realize how fast the window closes...A lot of women wind up in their 30's after several years of higher ed and chasing the dream job, maybe their looks starting to fade, a little tired and a few pounds heavier...And now they are demanding the world of everyone?? ...Bio clock ticking...Baby fever and she's been to a couple dozen bridal/baby showers already..."Wait...where are all the "good guys"??? the handsome and Alpha types ..."All that's out here now are pot smoking basement dwellers and frumpy looking "nice guys" that haven't had a girlfriend in their lives"..And what's left of the unspoken for "good" ones are fishing for younger hotties..

 

But yes, I do agree about the financial independence part....I guess if you are a woman and go that route and want the top tier guys,keep in mind what keeps guys really interested in the end...Its not everything, but its a lot of it...

 

TFY

[CptInsano]

Agreed. Another funny thing: men really do love the chase, the pursuit, the demsel-in-distress-waiting-for-her-saviour thing. I'm on a couple of different online dating apps, and have decided to run a little experiment over the past week lol.

 

Upon matching with a guy, I initiated the conversation with a few of them starting with the basics "Hey X, how's your day going?" - the majority responded and a conversation then followed. With about 3 or 4 other guys, I initiated by paying them a compliment, such as "you've got a really nice smile in your second picture :)" or "you have really nice eyes". It's the modern times, so women should also be able to "court" a guy, right? Apparently not, as NONE of these guys responded. Not a single one. So me being confident, approaching them and paying them a compliment, instead of waiting for them to pursue me, is a turn off for them.

 

I think many guys are able to handle a compliment, it's just that you have selected guys from a dating app. Yes, almost by definition they will expect to hunt, it's inherent to the online environment. You may have simply tested a common pattern in a dating app.

Edited November 14, 2017 by CptInsano

[Cookiesandough]

Looking at my post, not sure if you may have misunderstood...I am in agreement with you....

 

The problem lies in that most don't really realize how fast the window closes...A lot of women wind up in their 30's after several years of higher ed and chasing the dream job, maybe their looks starting to fade, a little tired and a few pounds heavier...And now they are demanding the world of everyone?? ...Bio clock ticking...Baby fever and she's been to a couple dozen bridal/baby showers already..."Wait...where are all the "good guys"??? the handsome and Alpha types ..."All that's out here now are pot smoking basement dwellers and frumpy looking "nice guys" that haven't had a girlfriend in their lives"..And what's left of the unspoken for "good" ones are fishing for younger hotties..

 

But yes, I do agree about the financial independence part....I guess if you are a woman and go that route and want the top tier guys,keep in mind what keeps guys really interested in the end...Its not everything, but its a lot of it...

 

TFY

 

I think it has more to do with the individual. There's no reason a girl who is cute, nice personality, well-rounded, can't date and work on a career at the same time. Most college girls do this. My acquaintance is working on her masters and she's at the club on weekends and online dating but she's still struggling. That woman who is married to the facebook guy is a doctor and they dated all throughout her schooling. Plenty of examples of accomplished women who are married and met their spouse when working towards their career.

 

This is a popular character trope, but the problem is not pursuing a career. The problem is that the girls who end up up focusing solely on their studies and not dating are usually shy, awkward, or just not great with guys and didn't try to make any efforts to work on their personality or their appearance. They probably struggled with dating even back then. When they finally decide to date after they are settled in their career( they think their career success is more important than anything else because that's what they care about the most),they use that as their main selling point. Accomplishment is a huge plus, but it's not going to save you when you are awkward, not open, not sexy or attractive, not fun or exciting to be around, not nurturing, not feminine, etc all the things that matter more to most men in the dating world

Edited November 14, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[BluEyeL]

Agreed, not the career is the problem, you can do both dating and career building. Harder on careers are kids rather than dating or getting married. But hopefully by the time one has kids she's in a good job already and maybe the career progress slows down a little and maybe she won't go as far as a man could but by that time she could support herself.

 

Marrying early has its risks too. The personalities are not fully developed. The partners are both building their careers and you don't know how things will evolve etc. Its a risk no matter how you try to play it you got to be a little lucky too.

 

I know, I married the guy I started dating at 18, married at 23, emigrated at 27, kid at 30, Ph.D. at 32, tenure track job at 34, divorce at 37, remarried at 45.

[CptInsano]

I think it has more to do with the individual. There's no reason a girl who is cute, nice personality, well-rounded, can't date and work on a career at the same time. Most college girls do this. My acquaintance is working on her masters and she's at the club on weekends and online dating but she's still struggling. That woman who is married to the facebook guy is a doctor and they dated all throughout her schooling. Plenty of examples of accomplished women who are married and met their spouse when working towards their career.[...]

 

The real tipping point comes when starting a family comes into the picture. Something has to give at that moment, one way or the other. Some MBA programs advise their female students not to date if they really want a career, and based on what I have seen they are right. Granted, I have seen couples where the husband is willing to downshift from a career perspective to spend time with the kids, and I have been approached by women who were looking for such a guy. But a man who is educated, well-rounded, self-assured and willing to enter such an arrangement isn't easy to find. Three of my friends did that, but their wives were rather wealthy.

[nospam99]

My ex was 100% the only guy I lusted for while we together(and still somewhat now) He was my ultimate fantasy. Any other guy was a serious downgrade.

 

[offtopic on]Cookies, you're sounding a lot more vulnerable and circumspect in what you're saying here about your ex than in your typical post. In other posts in this thread you've off-handedly said you 'ruined' that relationship. I plead guilty to being a hopeless romantic. And I admit that I've had my comeupance on that attitude many times. No need to reply in thread but I'm going to suggest (not 'advice', just suggestion - if you were my daughter this WOULD be advice ) that 1) you consider to what extent your ex shares your opinion that the relationship is ruined and 2) if you are assuming his feelings rather than knowing, that you contact him and find out for sure. Fairy tales and romcoms are fairy tales and romcoms. But that doesn't mean happy endings never happen IRL.[offtopic off]

[Cookiesandough]

The real tipping point comes when starting a family comes into the picture. Something has to give at that moment, one way or the other. Some MBA programs advise their female students not to date if they really want a career, and based on what I have seen they are right. Granted, I have seen couples where the husband is willing to downshift from a career perspective to spend time with the kids, and I have been approached by women who were looking for such a guy. But a man who is educated, well-rounded, self-assured and willing to enter such an arrangement isn't easy to find. Three of my friends did that, but their wives were rather wealthy.

 

That's true. Marriage and child rearing does make it more challenging. Women usually make choices that make sense for them. Women, particularly those who intend to marry and start a family, tend not to go into occupations where there is a high rate of obsolescence. If a woman takes off 5 years out of work as a computer engineer to have a child to the age to put them into daycare, the landscape has totally changed by the time she goes back. But if she becomes a teacher and takes 5 years off and come back, np. It's a biological reality women must face since they have the babies, but it's not insurmountable at all and women do it all the time. I think it's crazy to tell female MBA students not to date, though

Edited November 14, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[road]

Feminist saying: why buy a man who thinks you're a cow?

 

This shows their lack of understand, knowledge, ability to

reason clearly, act in societies best interests.

 

Men are not bought by women.

 

We are lured in by their charms. As a Siren leading a

ship onto the rocks.

 

With his ship sunk all hope is lost: and the reality is realized

as he says I do as the ball and chain is locked onto his ankle.

[road]

That's true. Marriage and child rearing does make it more challenging. Women usually make choices that make sense for them. Women, particularly those who intend to marry and start a family, tend not to go into occupations where there is a high rate of obsolescence. If a woman takes off 5 years out of work as a computer engineer to have a child to the age to put them into daycare, the landscape has totally changed by the time she goes back. But if she becomes a teacher and takes 5 years off and come back, np. It's a biological reality women must face since they have the babies, but it's not insurmountable at all and women do it all the time. I think it's crazy to tell female MBA students not to date, though

 

 

Crazy?

You want crazy?

What stinkin' crazy?

 

Carzy is the above logic.

 

This thread is about people can't find Mr/Mrs "The One". And all the

reasons. Though the thread boils down to woman the waiting for

Mr Perfect and they keep passing up Mr Right who will worship the

ground they walk on because he is not the Manicorn of their dreams.

 

They having to have it all has left them single. Unwilling to

separated a want from a need in a man.

 

Same thought process they want a career, a family, and neither

goal will never interfere with the other.

 

Being a mother changes one's life more then just having to be

pregnant for nine months.

[thefooloftheyear]

But here's the bottom line, and likely a good reason it's mostly women complaining of lack of "good" men...

 

They changed the entire dynamic over the last 30/40 years or so...The problem is men don't really want to play along...PLUS, many of the things they thought were getting them ahead and were progressive thinking...wound up sabotaging their own efforts, in dating/mating world..

 

Like previously stated....While its generally good advice to tell a young woman to be independent, have a career, etc..For the reasons mentioned, not all of those attributes mean that much to a guy...Some of you would be pretty surprised how far a complete idiot of a woman can go and how desirable a guy she can land, if she's sexy, has a great body, etc...

 

Some of the traits that women have had to adopt to enter the higher echelons of business and the corporate world can "masculinize" a woman to the point that it becomes a turnoff..

 

Add to that the relative easy access to and de stigmatizing of casual sex among women...Guys no longer are required to jump through any hoops or make any commitments to get sex...Its everywhere and easy...

 

So, really...It's all good... Enjoy the new found financial and sexual independence, just don't complain too much if you can't find a guy that wants to play along ....

 

TFY

[Cookiesandough]

Crazy?

You want crazy?

What stinkin' crazy?

 

Carzy is the above logic.

lol.

This thread is about people can't find Mr/Mrs "The One". And all the

reasons. Though the thread boils down to woman the waiting for

Mr Perfect and they keep passing up Mr Right who will worship the

ground they walk on because he is not the Manicorn of their dreams.

Not everyone wants a guy who will "worship the ground they walk on"

They having to have it all has left them single. Unwilling to

separated a want from a need in a man.

I hear some women complain about this but many women do not. They have the career and the family. Most men require their wives to work. These are mostly dual income earner families these days. My parents were one.

Same thought process they want a career, a family, and neither

goal will never interfere with the other.

If you have a problem with the model I understand but it's not like it's impossible, so why shouldn't women want it. That's what you should make a case for

Being a mother changes one's life more then just having to be

pregnant for nine months.

Definitely Edited November 14, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Cookiesandough]

[offtopic on]Cookies, you're sounding a lot more vulnerable and circumspect in what you're saying here about your ex than in your typical post. In other posts in this thread you've off-handedly said you 'ruined' that relationship. I plead guilty to being a hopeless romantic. And I admit that I've had my comeupance on that attitude many times. No need to reply in thread but I'm going to suggest (not 'advice', just suggestion - if you were my daughter this WOULD be advice ) that 1) you consider to what extent your ex shares your opinion that the relationship is ruined and 2) if you are assuming his feelings rather than knowing, that you contact him and find out for sure. Fairy tales and romcoms are fairy tales and romcoms. But that doesn't mean happy endings never happen IRL.[offtopic off]

 

Thank you. I really screwed things up. Attraction was never a problem for us. I just am difficult sometimes. He is done with me. It's okay. I've learned from my mistakes albeit too late

[thefooloftheyear]

Couldn't add to my previous post.

 

Guys won't complain too much now...Unless they are the types that never get attention/laid, the rest are pretty content with the new setup...Sex is easy and no commitments necessary...If the guy is lazy and unmotivated all he has to do is find a woman to carry him...They'll do it...I hear women even on this site here that say they are willing to enter that arrangement...I know guys that are currently in this type of relationship...The women go out and beat their brains in, while their h/so's just dick around the house...Go to the gym, take care of the dog...take naps...They may take on a low stress job just for some spending cash, but are no longer the donkeys...

 

If you are a desirable guy right now, the world is pretty much your oyster...

 

TFY