Shortage of good men? or good-looking men?

[GunslingerRoland]

I find that with women though, different taste in hot guys tends to be a subsection of the potential hot guys. (which is already very limited)

 

Whereas with men, accounting for differences in taste, expands the number of women that some men find hot, to be a huge percentage of all of the women out there.

[CptInsano]

Perhaps not all women are attracted to the cut and dry media perception of what a 'top' man looks like? There are plenty of men who don't find female celebrities who are supposed to be "the sexiest woman alive" to be the sexiest alive. George Clooney and Brad Pitt are two completely different looking men, imo. They're going to appeal to different women even though they are both attractive. There's a difference between recognizing someone's attractive and being attracted. My friends like men I can recognize as not being hard on the eyes... but we just have completely different taste. That's ok

 

I think media perception has a lot to do with it. There is a distinct difference between women I consider beautiful and the ones that I find hot, meaning those who that are attractive either emotionally or sexually. It took me a while, but I've pretty much figured out which women make me happy. While they are not necessarily common, they are also not universally sought after.

 

A friend of mine liked smart Asian women with big breasts. Now, he didn't meet one every day, for sure. But when he did he pursued her hard, and they are on their 2nd kid by now. He had to take the extra effort to make it happen.

[Cookiesandough]

That is perfectly fine. It is just irritating at times to read somebody's complaint about what this prerogative implies. It is an explicit choice, so you might as well own what that means.

 

I also have a preference and have rejected women because of it. Thankfully I'm still able to find my type, but if that was no longer the case I would know who to blame.

 

I don't see it as a choice any more than sexual orientation. I think if my type were no longer interested at all, I would adjust but not by choice but necessity

This is a video normal_person shared about it

 

 

Why do you think it's a choice?

[Nothingtolose]

Interesting thread.

 

I find I don't often have trouble attracting good-looking guys....the problem is a lot of those guys want to be casual and just have fun, and the ones who really want a committed relationship are often quite unattractive. I live in a city that's got way more women the men, so the men can have their pick of women...so why would they want to settle down?

 

At the same time, someone mentioned up there that a partner has to bring something to the table. I agree with that. I take care of myself, stay active/exercise, have a degree, well paying full time job, am trying to launch my own business, have lived in 4 countries and traveled to many more, can cook, own an apartment overseas, no debt, live by myself, am constantly looking to better myself as a person. Yet I've always settled for guys who my friends would classify as "losers", because I thought I could help them/fix them.

 

And you know what? I'm tired of that. I know what I bring to the table, and I think it's fair to want better. He doesn't need to be super hot, to be honest, I don't even mind slightly chubby/ bit of a beer gut, as long as the guy is not a couch potato. But he sure as hell needs to have a decent job, be financially stable (no need to be wealthy, just have his financial **** together), kind and able to hold a conversation, not be addicted to booze or drugs. It seems so simple and straightforward, but trust me, it's so very hard to find.

[CptInsano]

I

Why do you think it's a choice?

 

Because I changed my preference.

[central]

Considering that almost all men and women reproduce, regardless of whether they're "good" men or women, I'd say most are good-enough, at least for a while. It's longer term that most relationships fail. We tend to attract and catch those who are similar to us in terms of beauty and ability, although beauty on average gets a higher weighting in women, and success gets a higher weighting in men.

[Cookiesandough]

It took me a while, but I've pretty much figured out which women make me happy. While they are not necessarily common, they are also not universally sought after.

 

Same :)I'm quite glad the guys I find hot are not as sought after as, say, a George Clooney type. I don't really know how sought after they are but they're not People magazine's hottest man alive

 

I've adjusted accordingly I suppose...

Edited November 13, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[thefooloftheyear]

Another thing....

 

I think pretty much all types of women from all walks of life, that are looking would be open to OLD....It's the type of venue that really is well suited to women...They have a better way with words, are generally more creative(even with their photos:laugh:) and can better "package" themselves..

 

I mean no offense to anyone here, but while guys do it, a good percentage of guys don't/won't...and I think the more desirable, the less likely they'd do it, from what I hear...If you ask them why, many will say it's because they value their privacy more than the opportunity, and others say its just corny and lame...Women are everywhere....

 

 

I can certainly see that angle..

 

TFY

[road]

Shortage of men who are my type in both looks and personality. It's always been that way for some of us. Some people can be attracted to virtually everyone and some of us are selective. That's why it always riles me when someone(usually a man) says it's so easy for women to get sex. They're looking it at from their POV, one of next to no standards besides a vagina. They forget a lot people(men and women) have high standards. Yes, it's easy for women to get sex if that's their only objective and they don't mind cringing in disgust the whole time. If that experience is really enviable to these people, I suggest they go on Tinder, find the least attractive person to them, and chat them up.

 

A 10 will have no problem pulling in a 10.

A 6 will have no problem pulling in a 6.

A 2 will have no problem pulling in a 2.

 

I do not know you though you appear to only be willing

to accept your ideal man. Which is above your ability to

pull in.

[CptInsano]

Same :)I'm quite glad the guys I find hot are not as sought after as, say, a George Clooney type. I don't really know how sought after they are but they're not People magazine's hottest man alive

 

I've adjusted accordingly I suppose...

 

Yet from what I read so far, it almost seems that your specific type is your ex. You panic when trying to get close to anyone else, even though you may find them physically attractive. Or did I miss a recent development in that regard?

[somanymistakes]

See and that is exactly it, and a big part of the difference between women and men. Even when you say women are only attracted the top, most attractive men, and then you start listing off celebrities that are generally considered attractive, women will start telling you that they don't even find those ones attractive. So not only is a very small percentage of men considered truly good looking, most women only like a subset of those men to begin with.

 

That just shows women aren't a unified block. There are plenty of guys I find hot that I am absolutely certain the majority of women on this forum wouldn't think are attractive at all.

 

We are all individuals!

[somanymistakes]

Considering that almost all men and women reproduce, regardless of whether they're "good" men or women, I'd say most are good-enough, at least for a while.

 

I'm not jumping on you here, I'm actually curious - what's your source for most people reproducing? I'm trying to find data on the subject and the best I can turn up so far is:

 

According to the U.S. Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, in 2014, 47.6 percent of women between age 15 and 44 had never had children, up from 46.5 percent in 2012.

 

That sounds like it's getting close to half of women not reproducing at all?? That seems too high. But on another site I see them quoting that only 15% are childless?

 

Okay doing a bit more research it looks like that 15% is focusing in only on the 40-44 group rather than a whole age range which would obviously include people who haven't had kids yet but might later.

 

Childlessness | Pew Research Center

 

So that is most women having a child at some point, though it's always hard to tell because we can't know at this point how many people that are young now will be parents in the future.

[road]

I have no problem with a woman having a degree, high

paying career.

 

Though being a man a woman having those things do

nothing for me. I want a wife. I was raised to be the

provider not to have a woman provide for me.

 

So all the women that list a college degree and high

income as assets to make them more attractive. Well

those pluses do nothing to add value to enhancing the

potential mate status.

 

This is clue that too many women do not know how to value

rate themselves.

 

The way an EA hurts a BW more then a PA. And, the way a

PA hurts a BH more then a EA. Gives clues to what women

think makes them rated high, men do not place as high

of a value.

 

Thus women have unrealistic self value.

 

Having chrome valve covers may look nice but many

people see no value in them. They do not make the engine

run better, improve gas, lower emissions, run cooler,

last lost, more horse power. They do nothing but waste

money.

 

Hence most men never wanted them.

[elaine567]

George Clooney is 56 and Brad Pitt is 53, even William is pushing it at 35...

Young women looking for "good men" to marry are not wanting old guys like this surely...

[somanymistakes]

That's pretty much my take on these threads.

 

Have any women here given such a detailed breakdown and refused to date anything else? Can't really compare "I insist on dating a guy who is not a jerk" to "long list of physical features and sexual fetishes".

 

I have no problem with a woman having a degree, high

paying career.

 

Though being a man a woman having those things do

nothing for me. I want a wife. I was raised to be the

provider not to have a woman provide for me.

 

So all the women that list a college degree and high

income as assets to make them more attractive. Well

those pluses do nothing to add value to enhancing the

potential mate status.

 

THey do nothing to add value for you. Not everyone is seeking the same thing. I don't believe all men want exactly the same woman anymore than I believe all women want exactly the same man.

 

Some men would feel demeaned by having a wife without a degree. Some men would feel demeaned by having a wife with a degree. Some men want an equal partner to contribute to the estate, some don't. Some want a blonde with huge boobs, some want a redhead with tiny ones.

 

Now, many men think their high-paying job makes them super attractive on the meat market. And it does, to some women. But if I met a guy and he comes in with "I make six figures a year as a high-powered lawyer" that's probably a downside to me. Sounds like he's probably too tied up with his career to have time to enjoy life. So boosting your career is doing nothing to add value for my tastes there... but a different woman would likely have a different reaction.

 

And of course for me personally "I have a great salary - I'm a pilot!" is pretty much an instant NO. The culture in that job is really troubling to me, I would never marry one. But again some other woman is going to be totally excited by his nice uniform.

 

Other things that aren't going to win me over would include being great at sports or driving an expensive red sportscar. I don't care about these things.

 

Be silly for me to say that "too many men don't know how to value themselves" just because they're showing off in ways that are completely unattractive to me though, wouldn't it?

[Cookiesandough]

A 10 will have no problem pulling in a 10.

A 6 will have no problem pulling in a 6.

A 2 will have no problem pulling in a 2.

 

I do not know you though you appear to only be willing

to accept your ideal man. Which is above your ability to

pull in.

 

I've pulled in my ideal man before I just ruined it, but I've grown a lot since then. So I disagree that it's above my ability. Once it is I will probably adjust my standards accordingly. It's hard to meet guys who are my ideal, let alone "pull them in" so I will be dating less often, but it still happens so I'm willing to wait

[Cookiesandough]

Yet from what I read so far, it almost seems that your specific type is your ex. You panic when trying to get close to anyone else, even though you may find them physically attractive. Or did I miss a recent development in that regard?

 

No you are correct. I usually pick to go on dates with guys who look like my ex and I freak out often somewhere before date 3

[road]

I've pulled in my ideal man before I just ruined it, but I've grown a lot since then. So I disagree that it's above my ability. Once it is I will probably adjust my standards accordingly. It's hard to meet guys who are my ideal, let alone "pull them in" so I will be dating less often, but it still happens so I'm willing to wait

 

How many years ago was that?

 

And, how did you ruin that?

[Southern Sun]

Interesting thread.

 

I find I don't often have trouble attracting good-looking guys....the problem is a lot of those guys want to be casual and just have fun, and the ones who really want a committed relationship are often quite unattractive. I live in a city that's got way more women the men, so the men can have their pick of women...so why would they want to settle down?

 

At the same time, someone mentioned up there that a partner has to bring something to the table. I agree with that. I take care of myself, stay active/exercise, have a degree, well paying full time job, am trying to launch my own business, have lived in 4 countries and traveled to many more, can cook, own an apartment overseas, no debt, live by myself, am constantly looking to better myself as a person. Yet I've always settled for guys who my friends would classify as "losers", because I thought I could help them/fix them.

 

And you know what? I'm tired of that. I know what I bring to the table, and I think it's fair to want better. He doesn't need to be super hot, to be honest, I don't even mind slightly chubby/ bit of a beer gut, as long as the guy is not a couch potato. But he sure as hell needs to have a decent job, be financially stable (no need to be wealthy, just have his financial **** together), kind and able to hold a conversation, not be addicted to booze or drugs. It seems so simple and straightforward, but trust me, it's so very hard to find.

 

I have a good friend who is in her mid-30s...never married, very attractive, great job, kind, fun. She's a good girl. She can NOT find a man.

 

She did waste some time in her early years on DBs. I think that's a big part of the problem. But she's learned from that and she's wayyy moved on. The problem is, she's out there, doing OLD, "competing" with every other woman her age and below. She would still like to have kids. She's let go of the need to have a man who has also never been married. She's willing to date a little older (up to mid 40s maybe). But she just can't find anybody.

 

She says that men seem to just be interested in hooking up. And if it seems to be going somewhere, they just aren't great quality. Finding a good quality man who wants more than a hook up seems to be a huge challenge.

 

Men her age who have never been married are like children or players. If they HAVE been married, they are typically not wanting to go there again and enjoying the plethora of women available to them.

 

I go back to my previous argument: when you have a reduction of supply, demand increases. There are less men available who meet the criteria many women have (attractive sure, but also successful enough to be a decent provider...not even a sole provider, but just bring something to the table!). So if there are more quality women trying to pair up with lower numbers of quality men...what do you think is going to happen? It's just too easy for men to have their eyes constantly on what's next.

[Cookiesandough]

How many years ago was that?

 

And, how did you ruin that?

 

My ex, a little over 2 years ago. I was not mature enough for a serious relationship. I mean we both had issues, but he was very mature and patient. I was inconsiderate and put him through a lot. We got back together several times until last May.

 

Since then, I've dated other guys who I'd consider my physical type until about a month ago but I am too stuck on my ex. I've ruined it all sorts of ways.

[elaine567]

I have a good friend who is in her mid-30s...never married, very attractive, great job, kind, fun. She's a good girl. She can NOT find a man.

 

She did waste some time in her early years on DBs. I think that's a big part of the problem. But she's learned from that and she's wayyy moved on. The problem is, she's out there, doing OLD, "competing" with every other woman her age and below. She would still like to have kids. She's let go of the need to have a man who has also never been married. She's willing to date a little older (up to mid 40s maybe). But she just can't find anybody.

 

She says that men seem to just be interested in hooking up. And if it seems to be going somewhere, they just aren't great quality. Finding a good quality man who wants more than a hook up seems to be a huge challenge.

 

Men her age who have never been married are like children or players. If they HAVE been married, they are typically not wanting to go there again and enjoying the plethora of women available to them.

.

 

I think once you get past the first tranche of pairing up in the 20s of the HS sweethearts, the oops pregnancies and the "I can't wait to get married or live together and have kids" crowd and the second tranche in the late twenties, early thirties of the "educated" crowd, then you are then in player, commitmentphobe and/or Peter Pan territory or the divorcees.

Divorcees it seems to me like other divorcees with or without kids, as they can relate and are not so keen on single people.

I think single people scare them, so better to stick with their own crowd. Single people can be scary as they are the product of experience and will not put up with any old garbage and are often seriously looking for Mr/Miss Right and those can be big boots to fill.

[Cookiesandough]

How many years ago was that?

 

And, how did you ruin that?

 

Like I said, when I can't date guys I want whatsoever I might naturally adjust and be more open-minded. I'm not entirely sure I will since I'm not having children, I'm fine being single, and not miserable even being dateless. I have gone years without dating before my e. But right now, with the knowledge that I possibly can meet and go on a date with a guy who is my type tomorrow, I don't see myself content with settling. It doesn't make much sense and I feel better waiting it out.

 

I also think that's a big reason a lot of women cheat or more commonly cut the sex down big time after awhile. They're settling for emotional security, to start a family, financial security, social acceptance, etc. etc. instead of being genuinely in passionate love with the person. My ex was 100% the only guy I lusted for while we together(and still somewhat now) He was my ultimate fantasy. Any other guy was a serious downgrade.

[CptInsano]

I have a good friend who is in her mid-30s...never married, very attractive, great job, kind, fun. She's a good girl. She can NOT find a man.

 

She did waste some time in her early years on DBs. I think that's a big part of the problem. But she's learned from that and she's wayyy moved on. The problem is, she's out there, doing OLD, "competing" with every other woman her age and below. She would still like to have kids.

 

This sounds like a timing problem to me. The family-oriented men her age have likely married or are in a stable relationship, and are largely still in the pre-divorce stage.

 

A single man to start a family with, without any serious reason on why he didn't earlier, should be getting less frequent at that point. There are possibly some guys that are career-focused and just realizing at that age what they are missing.

[Nothingtolose]

I tried to highlight the most important parts of your post. A lot of guys know to stay away from girls like your friend there. Years of dating douchebags takes its toll on ladies, and generally speaking, they are not so pleasant to date for the guy who comes after.

 

When a woman keeps running into so-called players, it basically means she is dating guys who can do better than her. At least, these guys think they can. I am no player, but you can bet your paycheck that a few women I met before my GF likely think I am. Just because I hook up with you and bounce because I don't think you are GF material doesn't make me a player. Much the same with those guys your friend meets.

 

Basically, it isn't that there is a serious lack of "quality" men for her, it's just that those quality men don't want her. That's why she thinks they are all players.

 

I understand your point of view, but it's also a bit of an over-generalization. Yes, years of dating jerks does take a toll, but I personally am not someone who is okay with being jaded, or bitter or a victim. I had my own issues and insecurities (which is what led me to douchebags in the first place), but I've worked on myself through counselling, books, exercise etc, and have no interest in bringing old baggage to a new relationship.

 

So based on the posts I'm reading here, what's a single girl in her mid 30's to do, give up hope of finding anyone decent? lol. Everyone's presented the issues, but not the solution. And what classifies a girl as "GF material"? Does the fact that she is single and never married in her mid 30s automatically make her non GF material? Even if she is good looking, ****-together, funny, stable etc? I'm genuinely interested to know if this is how guys think.

[alphamale]

I've ruined it all sorts of ways.

 

i'm sorry to hear that C&d