Another one bites the dust?

[Lorenza]

Also, given that we had 4 dates I would soon be expected to go to his home or invite him to mine, have sex with him. All those acts with a stranger that I met on a dating ap and that are way more intimate than adding someone on social media.

 

I'm asked to take a "leap of faith" and give "benefit of the doubt". Yet it's totally fine that he won't take a leap of faith in adding me on Facebook? Wow just wow.

 

This is so true, oh my god. It really struck me now, when I read this. Nowadays, adding someone on social medias is considered more intimate than kissing and having sex, how screwed up is that? If I remember correctly, you were making out with this guy, which, to me, is a very private and intimate act since we don't just exchange fluids with everyone. Yet people are still telling you how it's way to early to add each other on Facebook. If anything, I would add someone way before making out, not after. It's absolutely not too early, no matter how little time has passed since you met him.

 

And another thing I will never understand - what's so private with Facebook? Don't you guys tell anything about yourself to the people you go on dates with? I assume you tell where you're working or living even before the date nr 1. Or how many siblings you have. Or what kind of music you listen to. If you have so many deeply private things posted on Facebook, you should first of all question yourself why. It's not wise to post things that compromise you in general.

 

Like the guy in question - clearly he had many things that shouldn't even be on his Facebook page if he's honest about his intentions. To me he sounds like a massive attention wh*** and I'm glad the OP found that out. I wouldn't even say it's normal to post affectionate pictures of you and your SO and even less normal to do that with a "friend". This guy likes games and the OP would be a part of it, more likely than not.

 

Facebook is a good tool to identify these people. Someone serious about finding a life partner would post accordingly. I do post on Facebook every now and then, but nothing I wouldn't be able to show a person I just met who interests me. The most serious, no bs people I ever met post close to nothing, actually.

[Shining One]

Did the guy in question post the pictures or did his female friend? Most of my pictures on FaceBook were posted by female friends or girlfriends. I change my profile picture every year or so, but that's the only picture I post personally.

[No_Go]

I’m personally anti-FB (I have one but use it 99.9% of the time for private messages only). However - if someone asks me - I’d explain exactly that and have no problem adding them (no need of clean up time) because there is nothing to hide there. I have yet to post a picture with a bf or date there- I just don’t. My ex was apparently annoyed I didn’t make ‘us’ FB couple but oh well - he knew my outlook since date 1...

 

This guy used to be undiscoverable online - for middle aged professional man that’s a glaring red flag, more than his FB content...

[Cookiesandough]

This guy used to be undiscoverable online - for middle aged professional man that’s a glaring red flag, more than his FB content...

Social media makes me so angry. xD

[No_Go]

Social media makes me so angry. xD

 

Yeah But it is occasionally a good indicator if someone is making things up or lying by omission (and for both of these you don't need to be friends to figure out, just good search tells it all; I am maybe higher on spying online than the norm but that's because I was burned excessively in the past by conmen and liars...)

[TheFinalWord]

Those alarmed by the timeline must also keep in mind that he is gushing over ES and making all types of deep claims about his feelings. Also, ES said she is really interested in this guy so I think its smart to dig before allowing oneself to become smitten. Social media gives a peek into someone before investing too much. On the other hand, it is quite superficial.

[Kamille]

That's fine but then don't go on and on with how special someone is and make all kinds of promises. Yet simple act of adding them on social media is evaded. At the very least talk openly about it.

 

Personally I offer and like full transparency.

 

You offered full transparency? No you didn't. You weren't honest about why you wanted to add him on Facebook. You were also not honest about why you were canceling the date.

 

Listen, as I said, if you don't trust him - and you don't - you're better off moving on. But stop pretending that he somehow is the most duplicitous evil person ever. It's enough that you don't trust him.

 

Move on, stop thinking about this. You have made up your mind.

 

Also, given that we had 4 dates I would soon be expected to go to his home or invite him to mine, have sex with him. All those acts with a stranger that I met on a dating ap and that are way more intimate than adding someone on social media.

 

I'm asked to take a "leap of faith" and give "benefit of the doubt". Yet it's totally fine that he won't take a leap of faith in adding me on Facebook? Wow just wow.

 

What? Please tell me you don't think there's a fix schedule you need to stick to! Have sex with someone when it feels safe to do so. Is this why you were putting so much pressure on yourself to figure out his trustworthyness? Because you think there's a script you have to follow? Welcome to adulthood: you don't.

 

 

 

 

For those who insist adding someone to social media is nothing: for you it might be, for others it isn't. It sure isn't for me, and I'm not someone who has anything to hide. Please accept that there is a difference. Also, by "evading" you mean it took him 30 minutes to add ES. Not defending him (I don't care about him), but 30 minutes and not hiding those pics with that woman? Hmmmmm. You guys are mounting the case. Ok, he's not trustworthy and a douchebag. It doesn't however confirm all of your biases against men.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Kamille

[No_Go]

Well she is still seeing him - so she does offer him the benefit of the doubt.

 

TBH I think the exact metrics here are irrelevant - intuitively we (people) are pretty good at determining who is trustworthy (the paradoxes happen where the gut fires up but we like to stick to our pre-made narrative... because we just want a given outcome too much).

 

As for sex: there is no timeline but nonvirgin adults that are making out already realistically won’t take much more than 4-5 dates... Otherwise they would have dialed down on intimacy (making out) and / or date frequency.

 

You offered full transparency? No you didn't. You weren't honest about why you wanted to add him on Facebook. You were also not honest about why you were canceling the date.

 

Listen, as I said, if you don't trust him - and you don't - you're better off moving on. But stop pretending that he somehow is the most duplicitous evil person ever. It's enough that you don't trust him.

 

Move on, stop thinking about this. You have made up your mind.

 

 

 

What? Please tell me you don't think there's a fix schedule you need to stick to! Have sex with someone when it feels safe to do so. Is this why you were putting so much pressure on yourself to figure out his trustworthyness? Because you think there's a script you have to follow? Welcome to adulthood: you don't.

 

 

 

 

For those who insist adding someone to social media is nothing: for you it might be, for others it isn't. It sure isn't for me, and I'm not someone who has anything to hide. Please accept that there is a difference. Also, by "evading" you mean it took him 30 minutes to add ES. Not defending him (I don't care about him), but 30 minutes and not hiding those pics with that woman? Hmmmmm. You guys are mounting the case. Ok, he's not trustworthy and a douchebag. It doesn't however confirm all of your biases against men.

[NuevoYorko]

Well she is still seeing him - so she does offer him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Still seeing him??? :eek:That is madness. You ladies have made him out to be the Devil himself. What woman would spend one more moment with this sociopath?

 

OP, in the interests of full transparency I think you need to get him to this thread. Give him a chance to know what he's signing up for.

[Timshel]

Having read 'most' of this thread ES, I will fall into the camp of this rejection of him and over analyzing was coming from a place of fear. Most people are fearful when beginning an intimate relationship, nothing exceptional there.

 

What is all this blooey regarding social media though? When I had FB, several years ago, I decided engaging with that nonsense rather than actual face time with people I care about was nonsense.

 

There is nothing mandatory regarding level of intimacy that you are not comfortable. If you would prefer an indefinite amount of time to get to know someone, so be it. If they are dissatisfied, so be it and move on.

 

So you saw on FB that he seems overly comfortable with a female friend...after bringing FB up and wanting to view it.

You did bring that on yourself.

 

I get it, it's too scary. Imagine how intimidated I was. LS=safe place

 

If you want to throw in the towel, do so. You know this guy much better than we do. Only take note of how quickly that YOU wanted to move things along.

Why not enjoy his company, delay sex and have a little fun, get to know him?

[Kamille]

Well she is still seeing him - so she does offer him the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

Holly ****ing **** for the love of all that is good, ES please stop seeing him.

 

You don't trust him! Why would you keep seeing him??? Take responsibility for yourself, please!

 

 

 

 

 

And you guys do realize that people who were commenting on ES' anxiety in no way agued she should give him the benefit of the doubt right? What we said is that she should get her anxiety under control. Why? Because she's trying to rush trust.

 

Because guess what: no one is arguing she should take a leap of faith either. What we said is that she should take the time to get to know him in person, without shenanigans and conjectures. She should take the time to see if they are compatible and to see if he is trustworthy.

 

Man, I can't believe that posters who think he's an evasive douchebag support the idea that she should keep dating him. You see the contradiction right?

Edited November 9, 2017 by Kamille

[No_Go]

Based on the information shared I think the guy is most likely untrustworthy but not in some terrible way (then I'd say 'danger! don't go there'), more in a not too smart player type (feeding ES with whatever suits the situation to get in her pants). The only real red flag I see is lack of online presence (if I understood correctly) because that's near impossible for a professional to be 'invisible' online.

 

Why keep seeing him? To convince herself she's making the right decision if she dumps him, or, why not, prove us all wrong by gathering new information from him?

 

Holly ****ing **** for the love of all that is good, ES please stop seeing him.

 

You don't trust him! Why would you keep seeing him??? Take responsibility for yourself, please!

 

 

 

 

 

And you guys do realize that people who were commenting on ES' anxiety in no way agued she should give him the benefit of the doubt right? What we said is that she should get her anxiety under control. Why? Because she's trying to rush trust.

 

Because guess what: no one is arguing she should take a leap of faith either. What we said is that she should take the time to get to know him in person, without shenanigans and conjectures. She should take the time to see if they are compatible and to see if he is trustworthy.

 

Man, I can't believe that posters who think he's an evasive douchebag support the idea that she should keep dating him. You see the contradiction right?

[JuneL]

I thought the guy played around the letters of his last name on fb, and that's why the OP couldn't find him initially (with the fake last name) on the internet, no?

 

It seems like the OP has learned from her past dating experience to know it's important to APPEAR LIKE she's playing it cool; however, what really matters is to ACTUALLY play it cool. She has spent so much energy getting so fixated on the guy whom she met like 10 days ago. I think anyone can pick up her desperate vibe easily.

 

Based on the information shared I think the guy is most likely untrustworthy but not in some terrible way (then I'd say 'danger! don't go there'), more in a not too smart player type (feeding ES with whatever suits the situation to get in her pants). The only real red flag I see is lack of online presence (if I understood correctly) because that's near impossible for a professional to be 'invisible' online.

 

Why keep seeing him? To convince herself she's making the right decision if she dumps him, or, why not, prove us all wrong by gathering new information from him?

[Kamille]

Untrustworthy, but not in a terrible way?

 

I'll vote there is no such thing. Not dating people you think are untrustworthy is like basic dating 101.

 

ES said it took her 6 months to extricate herself from a relationship where the dude lied constantly. I would suggest she do better from now on and stop dating people the minute she realizes she doesn't trust them.

[Cookiesandough]

He's proven he's not BF material...but nothing wrong withl still going on dates w him

[Kamille]

He's proven he's not BF material...but nothing wrong withl still going on dates w him

 

There's "not boyfriend material" and then there's untrustworthy. Those are two different things.

 

My basic rule in friendship and relationships is that I only let people who are trustworthy into my life. I highly recommend living by that rule.

[No_Go]

I thought the guy played around the letters of his last name on fb, and that's why the OP couldn't find him initially (with the fake last name) on the internet, no?

 

I thought he was nowhere to be seen online (except FB with scrambled name). I could have misinterpreted her.

[No_Go]

I guess I'm perceiving trust as a characteristics on a continuous scale. I don't see it as a yes/no thing.

 

The guy may push forward to get sex. Is it bad? Yes. Is it normal? Yes. It is not that black and white...

 

Breaking up a long-term relationship is a whole other game, I just don't see again how this can happen in a snap, deconvolution at least for me always takes months (proportional to the duration of the relationship).

 

With dating - she can stop anytime, no bond has been created just yet so terminating if appropriate will not be that hard.

 

 

Untrustworthy, but not in a terrible way?

 

I'll vote there is no such thing. Not dating people you think are untrustworthy is like basic dating 101.

 

ES said it took her 6 months to extricate herself from a relationship where the dude lied constantly. I would suggest she do better from now on and stop dating people the minute she realizes she doesn't trust them.

[Kamille]

I guess I'm perceiving trust as a characteristics on a continuous scale. I don't see it as a yes/no thing.

 

The guy may push forward to get sex. Is it bad? Yes. Is it normal? Yes. It is not that black and white...

 

 

Again, trust is very different from your second scenario of him suggesting sex. There's nothing inherently untrustworthy about suggesting sex (which, again, is different from pushing for sex #metoo)

 

And trust is not a characteristic he has - it's an emotion she feels: does she trust him or not? Everything she has written since adding him on Facebook suggests she doesn't trust him. It's not a binary emotion no. Trust is earned after all. But once you get to distrust? That is a definitive emotion.

[Woggle]

I feel exhausted just reading this thread.

[Cookiesandough]

But it's not black and white. Evil liar / good person who never lies. Many people do white lies...That's what he did. He is a messy - really messy, loud flirt has it all over FB so he had to be white-lie sneaky to cover it up. But that was to remain consistent in a romantic relationship context...

 

Maybe they wouldn't mind having fun with a guy like this with no sex involved or even just being friends with a guy like this. If he asked her about it she can be honest. & =come back with an answer quicker and more clearly than he did

[Kamille]

But it's not black and white. Evil liar / good person who never lies. Many people do white lies...That's what he did. He is a messy - really messy, loud flirt has it all over FB so he had to be white-lie sneaky to cover it up. But that was to remain consistent in a romantic relationship context...

 

Maybe they wouldn't mind having fun with a guy like this with no sex involved or even just being friends with a guy like this. If he asked her about it she can be honest. & =come back with an answer quicker and more clearly than he did

 

It's not about him! It's about her and her decision-making process.

 

Why would anyone want to date someone they don't trust, even if just for a casual thing?

 

Weren't you the one going on about not wanting to get played? Good news! I have the solution : don't date people you don't trust.

[Cookiesandough]

Not saying get invested in someone you don't trust, but nothing wrong with going on dates with them. I do it all the time and have had a lot of fun. I would have missed out on a lot of fun opportunities if I skipped out on every guy that gave me a pause or I couldn't see myself seriously dating or sleeping wit h

[Kamille]

Oh! And this seems like a no-brainer, but just in case it needs to be said:

 

Don't have sex with people you don't trust.

[Kamille]

Not saying get invested in someone you don't trust, but nothing wrong with going on dates with them. I do it all the time and have had a lot of fun. I would have missed out on a lot of fun opportunities if I skipped out on every guy that gave me a pause or I couldn't see myself seriously dating or sleeping wit h

 

Again, there's a difference between 1. not trusting someone, considering them liars, duplicitous and evasive and 2. getting to know someone as you decide whether or not they are trustworthy.

 

You seem to be confusing the two in your above quote.