How to approach possible cheating

[Bufo]

If you stay married to her you will forever be in a three person marriage unless WW has a lobotomy. In which case she'd probably not recognize you either.

She has never had him out of her thoughts even when he has been locked up. Most women are realistic enough to recognize that a man with prison terms in his life isn't a good long term candidate. She lacks that basic self preserving realism. She is in love with the fantasy. Not with you. And she has told you that exact thing.

 

Her problems are not your problems. If I missed it in your post I'm sorry but I don't think you are a trained psychiatrist The first lock up didn't help her too much, did it?

 

I'm not psychic, but if you searched high and low you probably couldn't find an MC with a higher likelihood of an anti-man bias. You are already searching for some reason to stay married. I suspect she'll provide you with some (bogus) reasons or rationales as her whole career has been helping oppressed women. Think there's a chance she'll see WW differently?

 

Finally, and most importantly, think about what you will be putting your kids through. You will perpetually be walking on eggshells fearful of setting this She Volcano off or triggering her recurring suicidal thoughts. Because there are only 24 hours in a day and I presume you work for some of those hours and need some sleep, they will of necessity be getting the short end of the stick.

They need you more than she needs you. And they don't need to witness this tragedy on a daily basis.

 

Divorce isn't always a selfish act. As soon as jailbird is free, he will be back. How can you realistically conclude that WW will ignore his advances this time? Or do you think it's possible you'll be back here posting the oft-seen "you guys were right" lament?

[road]

Divorce your WW for she has proven that she is addicted to

her OM.

 

No matter how much IC and MC as soon as the OM gets out

of prison your WW will go back to him because she is that

addicted to him.

[QuietDan]

She was sane enough to hide all of this for a very long time. She appears to be very smart. Very manipulative.

That being said.

You can't fix her.

She has to be the one to be working on fixing herself.

Someone has to be invested into the best interests of the children.

As far as the husband and wife relationship... Don't know where to even begin here.

This a train wreck.

You might consider turning to Christ, the Bible, and a Church for guidance, help, hope.

[Cephalopod]

The therapist we are going to see has a background in women's mental health, she worked for 20 years at a state woman's shelter, dealing with physical, emotional trauma. She now offers MC, and well as IC. She said she want's to meet with us both, to observe our interactions, how open and honest we are with her, before she decides on a path going forward.

 

 

There is allot that has come to light that she hid from me about her past. This goes beyond the EA/PA. She told me last night that she wants to change, that she is a bad person because she hurts people emotionally, and wants to get better, but she doesn't know how and feels that she is trapped in her "old self". She said she should have ended the relationship with the OM a long time ago, but felt comfort living in a fantasy world with him, instead of dealing with her emotional issues. She said she knows she doesn't have a future with him. Her body language showed fear, desperation, defiance. It wasn't remorse or guilt. She was in fight or flight mode when she talked about this. She stood erect, with her shoulders back, and hands clinched, with tears in her eyes. She was visibly angry with herself, and said she doesn't blame me, she knows everything was her fault. She said she is afraid of what the OM will do once he gets out, because of her leading him on, that she knows he is dangerous.

 

 

It seems to me that she has been living a double life, the wife/mother act with me, and the crazy lover with the OM. She called our family her "reality", and her EA her fantasy, and that she had trouble separating the two.

 

 

I know some on here are going to brand me as being "soft". I'm not. I have never been this hurt, humiliated, betrayed, destroyed, in all my life. I have been wounded deeply. Everyday is a struggle. And to top it off, now finding out that my wife my be "sick", it is allot to take. It honestly would be easier if it was, hey I banged this dude. I wouldn't think twice about leaving. This is different. I never knew this part of her. She hid it very well, and it seems that the old BF was the only person she shared this with.

 

The question I have is...why did you marry a woman like this?

[Just a Guy]

Hi Eric, you were going along a good path and it seems you have suddenly got side tracked. If your wife had problems of mental health and a fixation with a guy who is a felon and you were not aware of these issues before your marriage, you are NOT duty bound to stick around and clean up her mess after her. She has her own family to take care of her and you need to distanced yourself from her as fast as you can. The person who said that you would not have left her even after the 18 month period has got it right. You seem to be looking for excuses to hang on to her. If that be the case you cannot expect any more reasonable help from folk on this forum as one and all will advise you to dump your wife and you don't want hear that. You want someone to tell you that you are doing the right and noble thing by sticking with your wife. Well I guess you are going to be disappointed.

 

On another note if you hang around till her beau is released from prison she will dump you in a heartbeat and you won't know what hit you. Also, considering that her beau is a felon, I would be very worried about my own health and safety once he is out of prison. You can write that down in stone. Whatever you decide I guess we all wish you the best. Have a good day.

[Chaparral]

I don't know what the correct path for you is. I know that only you can make the call. It may take you some time to figure that out. It did me. Your situation is much more fraught with danger.

 

I'm guessing you will have to see the MC and determine if she is any good, not a ball breaker, and you think she can actually help your wife.

 

I'm guessing it would take years and even then it may not help. I think you should google borderline personality disorder and see if that rings a bell.

 

Could she be affected by a form of PTSD? There are definitely family of origin issues.

 

One last thought. Does the state prisons where you live permit conjugal visits?

[Jersey born raised]

Thank you for answering my question about IC. I am thankful you are going in that direction. But, you cannot put your faith in anyone person or group. You need to read and study a lot more. Did you go to the thread I copied and pasted with a link. Downtown's post there has a lot of links.

 

I suspect your wife has horrors in her past she cannot share. Understand that is one of the reasons she married you - to be safe while OM is in prison from others like him. Him in prison, you keeping her stable has made her life work but left her past to destroy her.

 

Understand if she heals, again if, the new her might not love you. Be thankful yes, but love no and that person will want to find love.

[S2B]

She needs to fix herself - YOU cannot do that for her = so MC is a waste of time!

 

And you fix yourself. Find out why you would ever consider staying with her and why you consider continuing being her doormat.

 

She has major, serious issues that a lifetime of counseling may not fix... be free of her to begin living.

 

She can figure things out on her own.

 

Get sole custody of your kids and protect them from her.

[Chi townD]

Your wife is a hot mess. But, never forget that she cheated on you even if she is going to or getting help for herself. Right now, I think that you need to step up and be the parent to those kids. You need to start taking care of them as you would a single parent. Because, I don't think she'll be that much help to you at the moment. Plus, there will be a strong possibility that you will be a single parent.

 

If this guy gets out and she goes running to him, she'll be running to him alone. No way this guy is going to take care of 4 kids that aren't even his. I mean, he's going to be an ex-con that has been in and out of prison for most of his adult life and no job prospects on the horizon. He wants a girl not the kids.And if she takes off to go be with him, talk to a lawyer the moment she's gone and ask about changing the locks on the doors.

[ericsvibe]

Again, I want to thank everyone for the advice. The MC was awesome. She was very "motherly", the best way I can describe it. She came across as very wise. Without much help from me, she immediately sensed something in my wife's past, and went for. My wife opened up and I learned more in those 3 hours than I have in 13 years of marriage. I spoke about 10 minutes. What I learned has changed the very nature of what was left of our relationship.

 

 

She was physically and emotionally abused as a child. When she was 15, she met the OM, who was 22 years old. She ran away with him because he "saved her" from her abusive mother. The system failed her, and she was returned to her mom, and the abuse continued. She continued to see the OM in secret, but he had a GF his age, and they "couldn't be together". As a man, we know he was just using her for sex, but she doesn't see it that way. She finally admitted that our first breakup, she was going to divorce me and run away with him. The divorce attorney she hired let her know that there wasn't anyway she could get sole custody, so she delayed filing. Then the OM reoffended and she was "stuck" with me again. She admitted that she will never love anyone as much as she loves him, and she would leave me in a heartbeat if he was out. She cried like a baby when talking about him, she was angry when talking about me. The MC was on that like a dog on a bone. She immediately asked her what have I done to deserve being stringed along, and if she ever thought about the kids in all of this. She admitted that the kids are the only reason she has stayed with me, that her passion, her heart belongs the OM. She said that as long as she was able to keep the contact with him secret, she could justify being with me. She said that now that I know, she is torn. The MC told her that she will never be able to be in a close relationship until she lets the OM go. She told her that what she is doing is self destructive, and that this life she dreams of with him is simply a fantasy. She advised me that at this point, unless my wife is really willing to change, that legal separation would be the most prudent choice. My wife agreed to start IC as well as continue the MC. My wife admitted that her choices is going to leave her lost an alone. The MC again told her that she must let go of her past to move forward, and without that, she can't even begin to heal.

 

 

My mother is going to move in with us in a month. My wife will be getting a full time job. I am going to file for legal separation to get the custody set in stone, so that she can't run away with the kids. She is still fighting divorce. She said she wants time to get her mental state together.She did agree to legal separation, which again gets the custody issue resolved. She agreed to move out once she is able to do so. She asked if I hated her, I told her no, but at this point I am ready to move on. I advised her that the only way reconciliation would be possible is if she finally lets go of the OM, that at this point my cards are all on the table. She told me yesterday that she does love me, just not like him. She said that I am the best father she has ever seen, and I am a great guy. She said that she doesn't know why she is still caught up with the OM and it is driving her crazy. She said she knows what she has, but she just can't keep thinking about what would it be like with the OM.

 

 

The mental turmoil she is in is consuming her. Yesterday, it was like she wasn't even there. She spent most of the day in bed, and barely spoke to me or the kids.

[GorillaTheater]

My mother is going to move in with us in a month. My wife will be getting a full time job. I am going to file for legal separation to get the custody set in stone, so that she can't run away with the kids. She is still fighting divorce. She said she wants time to get her mental state together.She did agree to legal separation, which again gets the custody issue resolved. She agreed to move out once she is able to do so. She asked if I hated her, I told her no, but at this point I am ready to move on.

 

 

Your wife is a hot mess all right, but there's a lot of good news in the above. Nail down the separation agreement ASAP. Since she hasn't finished school yet, what kind of job would she qualify for at this point?

 

 

Despite all of this craziness and dysfunction, you sound strong. Hang in there, brother.

[WilyWill]

And over the coming weeks, she'll slowly "realize" just how much she loves you and how she's finally ready to let go of the past. Look for her big upcoming "epiphany" as she announces her intention to rededicate herself to the marriage.

 

The survivor in her knows that this is what is necessary to string you along for a few more years to maximize her ability to exploit your stability and resources. The temptation to reconcile will be great, but don't fall for it. Play her game while you quietly make arrangements for custody and a favorable divorce.

[Cephalopod]

The OM is her lover.

 

You are her dad/husband. She sees you as an authority figure, which is why she resents you. She despises the fact that she needs you so much.

[merrmeade]

So many, many times, infidelity reveals deeper, darker secrets about the unfaithful spouse. The betrayed spouse is already staggering, trying to take in what's happened on so many levels. He's trying to sort out the meaning, its significance and a sane, judicious plan for the future of, often, more than one individual--not to mention recover from one of the most emotionally traumatizing, scarring life events there is.

 

It's outright hell and given all that, ericsvibe, I think you are doing an amazing job of handling all this shattering information and its ramifications. I think your priorities are in order and you have what it takes to put one foot in front of the other and do the needful. Hang in there; you're a survivor.

[Jersey born raised]

Cephalopod, nailed it. Her FOO issues own her. Until she deals with them any relationship will end up like your's. The partner becomes the authority figure that transforms into the abuser. I've seen dozens of threads like your's where the cycle just keeps repeating.

 

Ask your IC/MC for material on the subject. Also read Downtown posts on BPD as there is overlap. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/members/84986-downtown/

 

Her IC should be a doctor with a specialization in the field - that is a must.

 

Finally most of the usual advice will not work, in fact it will worsen the situation. It will only solidity your position as authority/abuser Her emotional state of mind just does not allow it.

[QuietDan]

It doesn't sound like there was a real relationship between you two to save. The entire relationship has been built on lies and manipulation. There wasn't any mental or emotional intimacy between the two of you. Effectively, she is a stranger. After all of this... Even a physical relationship with her would appear to have significant challenges and issues that frankly I imagine would be fairly difficult to live with and overcome.

Shared goals, interests, hobbies, dreams, future plans, common dreams, mental intimacy, emotional intimacy, physical intimacy, common value systems, world views, religious views, political views, communication, good coversations ... ???? Is there anything real left to build a new relationship from the ashes of your past relationship with her if you wanted to even attempt to try to reconcile with her?

Edited July 11, 2017 by QuietDan

[Jersey born raised]

You are not her father/mother/sibling. I think you should take QuietDan's post to heart. Understand if she partially heals enough she will be a very different person - one who did not chose you. In addition if she stays, she will to easily fall back into her old habits.

[ericsvibe]

It doesn't sound like there was a real relationship between you two to save. The entire relationship has been built on lies and manipulation. There wasn't any mental or emotional intimacy between the two of you. Effectively, she is a stranger. After all of this... Even a physical relationship with her would appear to have significant challenges and issues that frankly I imagine would be fairly difficult to live with and overcome.

Shared goals, interests, hobbies, dreams, future plans, common dreams, mental intimacy, emotional intimacy, physical intimacy, common value systems, world views, religious views, political views, communication, good coversations ... ???? Is there anything real left to build a new relationship from the ashes of your past relationship with her if you wanted to even attempt to try to reconcile with her?

 

 

This is what I have struggled with. I have moved to the point that I am over the grief of what happened. I am really looking at what can be done to move forward. If she doesn't address her personal demons, we can't reconcile. I have been blindsided by all that she has hidden from me, from the very beginning. FOO issues really strike an accord, because her problems really do evolve from that. Her mother blamed her for the divorce from her father. Her mother physically abused her. She also destroyed her self esteem. I can now see why she married me. I have my crap together. I am a very strong person, with a very strong sense of self worth. This whole ordeal hasn't changed the way I see myself. I feel cheated for being lied to. I feel empathy for my kids, and see all the work I am going to have to do to repair their self esteem and protect them from all of this. I feel empathy for my wife, who could have addressed this in the beginning if she simply shared this with me. I understand that in her view of the world, showing emotion is a weakness that causes you to get hurt. What I want to happen, is the following. I want her to continue therapy, to try to work on her issues. I want her to get a job and stick with it, she is very bright. Her trust issues cause her to quit her job at the first sign of friction. I want her to earn her own money, and pay her own bills, and take care of herself for once. I fully expect that once this happens, she will want to leave. That will be fine by me. Right now, in my mind, even though a love her more than anything, we are friends with benefits. Even with all of these lies, are sex life has always been amazing. That is the reason I never suspected anything. I know I may seem weak, but I'm not. I am a very rational person. I simply can't just throw her out on the street, with nothing but her clothes. My kids are watching, and I have to set an example for them. I haven't raised my voice once throughout this entire time. Mentally, I have prepared myself for what I think will be the inevitable. She will get her emotional state together, followed by her finances, and then she will tell me she just doesn't love me and wants to move on. I know it is coming. If we can end this on amicable terms, it will save my kids the heartbreak of seeing this marriage blow up. I can take a hit to my ego, if necessary, to make it work.

 

 

On the other hand, if she stops going to MC/IC, refuses to work, and retreats from the family, I'll have no choice but to end it forcefully. The thing is, we have discussed this at length. She knows the second my mother walks in the door, her last stranglehold on me is gone. I hope she has the forethought to apply herself and let this end on a good note.

 

 

If, by some miracle, she comes out of MC/IC, gets a job, and really wants to reconcile, I think that will be the hardest thing for me to mentally process. Because you guys and gals are right, our entire marriage was a lie. I am just now getting to know my real wife. We would have to start completely over. I don't know if I am willing to do that. Maybe if I see a true change in her.

 

 

To those who say I'm not her father/mother/sibling. She hasn't spoken to her father in the last 20 years. Her mother in 3 years. Her siblings in 3 years either. She really doesn't have a single person to help her, except me, the person she stabbed in the back. She doesn't have any friends, and the OM is in prison. She has backed herself into a corner, in a whole world of hurt. It's either me, or a homeless shelter. This is the reason that I am very reserved, and I don't trust what she tells me. Until she has a job, and provide for herself, the truth won't come out.

[niji]

To those who say I'm not her father/mother/sibling. She hasn't spoken to her father in the last 20 years. Her mother in 3 years. Her siblings in 3 years either. She really doesn't have a single person to help her, except me, the person she stabbed in the back. She doesn't have any friends, and the OM is in prison. She has backed herself into a corner, in a whole world of hurt. It's either me, or a homeless shelter.

 

I have been following your thread for a while but haven't spoken.

 

When I read the lines above, I thought to myself, why not? Why not let her live in a homeless shelter? Some people don't know what it's like to lose what they have, until they do. Would I be resentful to my dad if he pushed my mom into the shelter? Maybe. Until I find out what she's done.

 

I understand that you still care for her, but nothing in life is free. She hasn't earned your love. And I'm afraid that until she's completely lost you, she won't realize what she had. At this time, I wish you and your child the best. A person's circumstances surely influence their lives, but we're all capable adults with our own decisions. She's made hers and has to live with the consequences. The truth is you can't save a person if they don't want to save themselves. Not if you're their parents, siblings, significant other, or anyone else.

[Cephalopod]

When I read the lines above, I thought to myself, why not? Why not let her live in a homeless shelter? Some people don't know what it's like to lose what they have, until they do. Would I be resentful to my dad if he pushed my mom into the shelter? Maybe. Until I find out what she's done.

 

 

If they had no kids I would completely agree with this.

 

However, he simply cannot let her slip this low. He is going to have to be the adult here and sacrifice his own happiness for a while until she gets her act together, gets a job, gets financially self-sufficient and can be the mom her kids need her to be.

 

I think he has a good, objective plan. He can live amicably with her in the short term while she does this and be detaching himself emotionally from her in the meantime. It is possible...hard, but possible.

[ericsvibe]

I'd like to provide an update. My wife has continued to do really well in MC/IC. She has been very honest with the therapist. I still don't understand why she can share with the therapist, and why she kept me in the dark for so long. She has been doing allot more with the kids, and is taking care of household chores for once.

 

 

After sending the break up letter to the OM, he wrote back. At first I was just going to get rid of it, but I opened it. After reading it, it was apparent that she needed to find out what he actually thought of her. Of course, he was VERY angry. He basically told her that she has emotional problems and she needs professional help. He admitted to her that she has always been his "side piece", that he knew he could "get it" whenever her wanted, without having to put forth any effort. He said that she was very naïve and she would "buy" his excuses without question. He told her that he has never considered her "the one" for him, and frankly he would never take care of another mans kids. He told her that if she wants to "hook up" in the future, she knows how to get in contact with him, but he is tired of dealing with "her crap". He criticized her as a mother, asking her what type of mom would risk her kids for him. He also wrote me a letter, with a very detailed timeline of what they did, where they did it, and when they did it. He told me that I must be the best guy in the world for putting up with my wife, and that he thinks I should "bounce", because my wife isn't worth the trouble. He explained that when he came to her, it wasn't for the purpose of running off to be together forever. He explained that he needed money, and he knew that my wife was dumb enough to give him what he wanted. He said that when she tried to run off with him, he told her heck no, because all he wanted was sex and some money. He said he never wanted to be "with her forever". He said that the letters he wrote to her while he was in jail were to pass the time. He said that her pictures are very popular there, and he has gotten lots of canteen money from them.

 

 

I watched as my wife read the letters, her shoulders slumped, she began to cry. She went to the bedroom and didn't come out the rest of the day. During MC, the therapist asked me to leave, to talk to my wife alone about the letters. When I came back, my wife left. The MCer wanted to know how I felt about the letters, and if I could ever forgive her. I explained my feelings, and she said that was a great first step. She said that she wanted to make sure that I wasn't starting to resent my wife. At the end, we both were back in the room. The MCer asked us to work on a communication project together.

 

 

This weekend, for the first time in forever, my wife wanted to be next to me in public. She consistently held my hand. We did some school shopping for the kids, and a very attractive mom started hitting on me while my wife was trying on clothes with the girls. I haven't worn my wedding ring since I confronted her, so I looked like a divorced dad I guess. My wife came at the tell end of the conversation. A year ago, she would have blown up on me and the woman. Instead, she walked up behind me and put her arm around my waist, and complemented the woman on her outfit. The woman blushed and apologized, saying that she didn't realize I was "taken", and told my wife she was lucky to have such a handsome husband who would spend the day at the mall with her and the kids.

 

 

I have never seen this side of my wife before. As I said on another thread, we are basically in a friends with benefits stage right now. The physical chemistry has always been there. I'm just not used to seeing a "nurturing" side to my wife. She was thoughtful and considerate the entire weekend. I hope this is the new her starting to come through, and not just an act.

[BluesPower]

ericsvibe, brother i just hope you are doing the right thing...

 

Only you can make that decision. But buddy, I think you are setting yourself up for failure. I really hope I am wrong.

 

In my bad days, I was a real creep. I had women that were obsessed over me and I took advantage of them. I am not proud of it in any way, I was a horrible person. But I have had women that came back to me when they never should have, I mean it was crazy.

 

But the thing is that if the things that your wife is showing you are REAL and she is starting to understand what she has with you, wow, you have won the lottery.

 

If she goes back to him, and please don't think that it is not possible, you are just in for ever more heart break that you have already been through.

 

Please keep your eyes open, and don't be a fool...

[QuietDan]

Things may be a bit better for you at the moment.

People are who they are. The fundamental person is who that person is. Who was she day in day out for years, decades? Eventually, when things settle down a bit and the drama and fear fade, things usually have a tendency to return back to the Mean.... Then, habituated thinking has a tendency to show back up...

[Jersey born raised]

Why could not tell you: To important to risk losing. I understand it is not uncommon for a person with FOO, CSA, rape, or post combat stress to avoid the subject.

[WilyWill]

I suddenly have some respect for this faceless convict. He was more truthful than your wife has ever been. I think most of us in here would give you the same advice to "bounce." She's really proven she isn't worth it.

 

So now she's brokenhearted that the love of her life saw her as a gullible side piece that he could con out of money. Yes, she'll definitely rediscover her interest in you as plan B.

 

But what about when the next bad boy comes along? You'll never be a bad boy--you're just a good family man and father who could make some decent woman very happy.