That Magic Number...

[WaitingForBardot]

...

If you ask most guys, and they are honest, a woman with a high number scares(and/or potentially repulses) the crap out of them..Is it fair?? Of course not...But don't be so quick to see those guys as somehow damaged in some way...They have some insecurities in this area...it many cases it speaks nothing of their overall character..

...

I agree.

 

I have had a number of friends that started up with high-number women initially thinking how great it was to have such sexually adventurous partners, only to then judge them unworthy by the very trait that attracted them in the first place. In my mind they weren't damaged, just hypocrites. And these very same friends were sometimes critical of my choices, you can do better, doesn't it bother you, etc., when it just wasn't a big deal to me. Different strokes...

 

I think the key, as mentioned earlier, is matching wants/needs/expectations. If a woman/man with a high number bothers you, then by all means screen them out early by whatever means you find necessary. Just avoid silly extrapolations of what this one trait means insofar as the character of the whole person.

[elaine567]

If you ask most guys, and they are honest, a woman with a high number scares(and/or potentially repulses) the crap out of them..Is it fair?? Of course not...But don't be so quick to see those guys as somehow damaged in some way...They have some insecurities in this area...it many cases it speaks nothing of their overall character..

 

 

Guys are in the unfortunate position that what they bring to the table sexually can be measured...The thought that a woman has been with a lot of guys just increases the possibility that she's been with guys more well endowed than they are...despite what they say publicly, most women want a guy that's packing...If a woman never had the experience, then maybe they don't know what they are missing, hence its not an issue?? I know its ridiculous, because a woman could have been only with one other guy, and that guy could have been hung like a rhino, but more opportunities=more possibilities..I dunno...I have heard guys say this before, though ...more than once.....There must be something to it..

 

Also...Again, even though its technically not fair, guys see women with high numbers as somehow unable to control themselves or have questionable boundaries....Like they are constantly seeking a better/new sexual experience, so its going to lead to a situation whereby there will always be some uncertainty or lack of trust. If you want to hear something crazy, i know guys that if a woman comes on to them sexually on the first date, they have a problem with it...They feel if that woman would give it up that easily, that indicates a woman that would do that to anyone....

 

There can be all types of movements afoot regarding not *s*-shaming, but that doesn't mean guys have to automatically accept it...Many don't..

 

Its crazy...I agree...but a lot of things on both sides are crazy and lack logic at times..

 

TFY

 

I think the same can be basically said about women too, a guy with a high number has experienced lots of women so how does she measure up? Is she pretty enough? Are her boobs the right size, the right shape? Is her butt too big, too flat, too small? Is she too fat, too skinny? Is she "hot" or just average or just nondescript? With all that experience he has, does she suck in bed? Is she important to him or just another notch on the bed post?

 

AND can she really trust him? He is obviously good at picking up women and sleeping with them, so can she trust him to go anywhere, the club, the pub, out with his mates, a work trip, even a simple trip to the supermarket, plenty women in there...?

 

AND will he just get bored of her pretty fast and move on to the next one?

[Cookiesandough]

A guy with high numbers is a turn off for me for sure. This stuff starts to sort of seep out after being together long enough, but for me it's don't ask, don't tell. If I don't hear about it, I don't care. If my bf slips out he had a MMMFF orgy or has slept with countless random women, yeah, it's gonna change my perception of him and not in a positive way. I think it reeks of insecurity to ever ask, but at the beginning of dating? run

[PrettyEmily77]

If you ask most guys, and they are honest, a woman with a high number scares(and/or potentially repulses) the crap out of them..Is it fair?? Of course not...But don't be so quick to see those guys as somehow damaged in some way...They have some insecurities in this area...it many cases it speaks nothing of their overall character..

 

 

Guys are in the unfortunate position that what they bring to the table sexually can be measured...The thought that a woman has been with a lot of guys just increases the possibility that she's been with guys more well endowed than they are...despite what they say publicly, most women want a guy that's packing...If a woman never had the experience, then maybe they don't know what they are missing, hence its not an issue?? I know its ridiculous, because a woman could have been only with one other guy, and that guy could have been hung like a rhino, but more opportunities=more possibilities..I dunno...I have heard guys say this before, though ...more than once.....There must be something to it..

 

Also...Again, even though its technically not fair, guys see women with high numbers as somehow unable to control themselves or have questionable boundaries....Like they are constantly seeking a better/new sexual experience, so its going to lead to a situation whereby there will always be some uncertainty or lack of trust. If you want to hear something crazy, i know guys that if a woman comes on to them sexually on the first date, they have a problem with it...They feel if that woman would give it up that easily, that indicates a woman that would do that to anyone....

 

There can be all types of movements afoot regarding not *s*-shaming, but that doesn't mean guys have to automatically accept it...Many don't..

 

Its crazy...I agree...but a lot of things on both sides are crazy and lack logic at times..

 

TFY

 

It is crazy, yes.

 

Ironically, even as a woman with a 'low number', the only option I have in order to dispel any shaming is to not even engage in that sort of mindset; that's why I have no interest in guys with the insecurities you describe. These insecurities may well be justified (I don't think they are FTR) but they are not compatible with my values and I'd rather a 'high partner' guy who the same core values as me than a 'low number' guy riddled with insecurities.

 

No-one should feel like they have to answer that question at any point if they don't feel it, especially not early on in the 'dating process'. It doesn't make you shifty, full of shame, secretive or dishonest - it just makes you discerning and careful not to open yourself up to more than you've bargained for to near strangers, in my opinion.

Edited February 16, 2017 by PrettyEmily77

[Shining One]

No-one should feel like they have to answer that question at any point if they don't feel it, especially not early on in the 'dating process'.

Help me understand this. What is the harm in dealing with this earlier rather than later? I can see the harm in dealing with this later, but I don't see any downside to handling this early.

[PrettyEmily77]

Help me understand this. What is the harm in dealing with this earlier rather than later? I can see the harm in dealing with this later, but I don't see any downside to handling this early.

 

You're not 'dealing' with anything, though - you're rushing to get as much personal information as possible in-between two dates, so you're almost pre-programmed to make judgement calls in haste (especially those who are 'multi-dating').

 

I've mostly been involved with men I've met through my extended social or professional circle, so I've never really experienced the sense of urgency people have in wanting to get as much private stuff from someone they've only met a couple of times.

 

I'd personally much rather be single than be subjected to constant arbitrary judgement that way - I don't want to take the risk of feeling jaded or deflated.

[Shining One]

You're not 'dealing' with anything, though - you're rushing to get as much personal information as possible in-between two dates, so you're almost pre-programmed to make judgement calls in haste (especially those who are 'multi-dating').

 

I've mostly been involved with men I've met through my extended social or professional circle, so I've never really experienced the sense of urgency people have in wanting to get as much private stuff from someone they've only met a couple of times.

 

I'd personally much rather be single than be subjected to constant arbitrary judgement that way - I don't want to take the risk of feeling jaded or deflated.

Here's how I look at it: If any aspect of me is a deal-breaker for a woman I'm dating, I would rather determine this as early as possible. If my 20+ partner count is too much for her, I would rather know before I invest significant time, money, and emotion into building something with her.

[PrettyEmily77]

Here's how I look at it: If any aspect of me is a deal-breaker for a woman I'm dating, I would rather determine this as early as possible. If my 20+ partner count is too much for her, I would rather know before I invest significant time, money, and emotion into building something with her.

 

How can you know that something is a deal-breaker before getting to know the person well enough, though?

[Shining One]

How can you know that something is a deal-breaker before getting to know the person well enough, though?

Some people have absolute deal-breakers. For example, I would not pursue things with a woman who has HSDD. It doesn't matter how well I know her or how "perfect" she is otherwise, this is an absolute deal-breaker for me. I'm betting you have some absolute deal-breakers of your own. Edited February 16, 2017 by Shining One

[PrettyEmily77]

Some people have absolute deal-breakers. For example, I would not pursue things with a woman who has HSDD. It doesn't matter how well I know her or how "perfect" she is otherwise, this is an absolute deal-breaker for me. I'm betting you have some absolute deal-breakers of your own.

 

Not really, apart from the usual violence or serious abuse stuff. I tend to think deal-breakers are baggage from previous relationships, so they don't apply to other guys. I try to judge people on their own merits and focus on what would make a guy compatible rather than deal breakers

[thefooloftheyear]

I think the same can be basically said about women too, a guy with a high number has experienced lots of women so how does she measure up? Is she pretty enough? Are her boobs the right size, the right shape? Is her butt too big, too flat, too small? Is she too fat, too skinny? Is she "hot" or just average or just nondescript? With all that experience he has, does she suck in bed? Is she important to him or just another notch on the bed post?

 

AND can she really trust him? He is obviously good at picking up women and sleeping with them, so can she trust him to go anywhere, the club, the pub, out with his mates, a work trip, even a simple trip to the supermarket, plenty women in there...?

 

AND will he just get bored of her pretty fast and move on to the next one?

 

 

True, but there are 2 differences that I can think of that make it not comparable, IMO...

 

And what you are saying is absolutely valid...I know there are woman that feel insecure or perhaps intimidated by a so called "stud"...The thing though, is that practically all of the things you bring up can be changed or improved upon.....Ive seen women whip themselves into shape, get a boob job, etc, to "keep up" or thwart the possibility of roving eyes and/or competition from rival women. ...

 

Same with bedroom skills...It doesn't take all that much to become a good sex partner...One vagina is pretty much all...HUGE difference from a guy and his dick...I mean, If I was a guy that had a dick smaller than, say.... 5", Id probably take a vow to Priesthood......Guys tie this directly to prowess and virility and nothing a woman can say to them will make them change their outlook...If you draw the short straw, so to speak, there isn't a damn thing they can do about it, and they are going to feel inadequate...Add a bunch of partners and you can see where that is going to go...

 

Also, unlike men, women seem to prize guys who have had it easy..They want what other women have.......Even the most experienced of guys would love to find nothing but virgins..>Its impractical, but that's the way it is...Women see guys who are inexperienced with women as a negative...

 

Its just not the same....nor is it fair, on either side...But guys can think what they do...even if logically it makes little sense..

 

TFY

Edited February 16, 2017 by thefooloftheyear

[Weezy1973]

I think asking the number is best left to people you are seriously considering having an exclusive relationship with. Before that point, it's not really relevant.

 

Most of my GFs have asked it, but not as an isolated question, more as an opportunity to assess whether or not we have similar core values when it comes to sex.

 

And I'm pretty firmly in the "sex is something you share for someone special" camp and so is my partner. Not to say we both haven't had sex with people that weren't particularly special to us, but those instances are few and far between so we both have relatively low numbers.

[todreaminblue]

Help me understand this. What is the harm in dealing with this earlier rather than later? I can see the harm in dealing with this later, but I don't see any downside to handling this early.

 

i agree to the point of finding out before you even date someone how they feel about potential dates who have had high numbers.....that's why i believe friendship before dating and knowing the person you date is a whole lot better than dating virtual strangers.For people who do date strangers......that's a risk .....so disclosing sexual relationships or sexual history early saves a lot of time in that risk factor.

[Els]

Some people have absolute deal-breakers.

 

If someone absolutely NEEDS to know someone's exact number immediately before they even get to know the person... then sure, bring it up on Date 1 or 2. Just don't be surprised if the woman, regardless of her number, perceives that behaviour as an absolute deal-breaker for them.

 

Personally, I think that any guy who does that is just plain stupid. Not because of unfairness or slut shaming being wrong or whatever (although those reasons are perfectly legit), but because, IMO, women who have the "sex only in committed Rs" mindset would almost always find such discussion on the first date to be extremely uncouth and off-putting. I grew up in a conservative culture where most women had low numbers, and if a guy tried that on Date 1, almost every woman I know would have gotten up in disgust and left immediately.

 

So basically, if you do that, you're effectively putting off almost all of the sane, healthy women with that sexual mindset - which presumably was the kind of woman you wanted to attract in the first place. (Edit: General 'you', I know that 'you' do not seek that).

Edited February 17, 2017 by Elswyth

[Cookiesandough]

easy solution - if it's a deal breaker for a guy to know your 'number' then it won't get to the point where it's a deal breaker for him when he finds out your 'number'! And most women with high numbers who divulge this info probably lie.

[PogoStick]

A woman has no right to ask how many LTRs I've been in, or how many times I've been married! Such a woman is definitely not a lady!

[PrettyEmily77]

So basically, if you do that, you're effectively putting off almost all of the sane, healthy women with that sexual mindset - which presumably was the kind of woman you wanted to attract in the first place. (Edit: General 'you', I know that 'you' do not seek that).

 

This is the danger with asking stats off of near strangers - you jump to ready-made answers right away.

 

A high number doesn't automatically equate to sexual prowess or an adventurous spirit or even a high drive, nor does it equate to promiscuity or lack of personal boundaries or unfaithfulness.

 

In the same way, a low number doesn't automatically equate to low drive, lack of opportunity, a prudish or 'vanilla' sexual mindset, nor does it equate to strong morals or guaranteed loyalty.

 

Ergo, the 'number' itself means nothing without a context.

 

I would not pursue a relationship with a guy without getting a sense of his character, how he's lead his life until now, how he sees his place in the world, and ultimately how compatible his core values are to mine, but I won't know that unless I make the effort to get to know him as a person, which takes time; by the time I get to that point, any number becomes irrelevant. That's been my experience so far, and I've never been asked my exact number by anyone.

[Shining One]

If someone absolutely NEEDS to know someone's exact number immediately before they even get to know the person... then sure, bring it up on Date 1 or 2. Just don't be surprised if the woman, regardless of her number, perceives that behaviour as an absolute deal-breaker for them.

 

Personally, I think that any guy who does that is just plain stupid. Not because of unfairness or slut shaming being wrong or whatever (although those reasons are perfectly legit), but because, IMO, women who have the "sex only in committed Rs" mindset would almost always find such discussion on the first date to be extremely uncouth and off-putting. I grew up in a conservative culture where most women had low numbers, and if a guy tried that on Date 1, almost every woman I know would have gotten up in disgust and left immediately.

 

So basically, if you do that, you're effectively putting off almost all of the sane, healthy women with that sexual mindset - which presumably was the kind of woman you wanted to attract in the first place. (Edit: General 'you', I know that 'you' do not seek that).

I would never recommend anyone who cares about the number to ask it early. I'm fully aware of how women react to certain questions early on. I'm trying to understand why the woman on the receiving end would prefer to get that question later (after she has expended time, resources, and emotion) rather than earlier.

[Shining One]

This is the danger with asking stats off of near strangers - you jump to ready-made answers right away.

 

A high number doesn't automatically equate to sexual prowess or an adventurous spirit or even a high drive, nor does it equate to promiscuity or lack of personal boundaries or unfaithfulness.

 

In the same way, a low number doesn't automatically equate to low drive, lack of opportunity, a prudish or 'vanilla' sexual mindset, nor does it equate to strong morals or guaranteed loyalty.

 

Ergo, the 'number' itself means nothing without a context.

I think you're trying to apply logic to something that's not always logical. Ironically, I'm often guilty of that myself. I agree, there's no real reason for < or = X to be acceptable and X + 1 suddenly becomes unacceptable. Heck, I'm unacceptable to plenty of women because I'm 1 inch below their required height (I'm 5'11"). It's not logical. It tells you nothing of my character. Plenty of requirements don't have logical reasoning behind them.

[PrettyEmily77]

I think you're trying to apply logic to something that's not always logical. Ironically, I'm often guilty of that myself. I agree, there's no real reason for < or = X to be acceptable and X + 1 suddenly becomes unacceptable. Heck, I'm unacceptable to plenty of women because I'm 1 inch below their required height (I'm 5'11"). It's not logical. It tells you nothing of my character. Plenty of requirements don't have logical reasoning behind them.

 

That's because I've never done OLD in my life, so I have no boxes to tick or a laundry list. I meet a guy, I like him, if I'm lucky he likes me too, we get to know each other for a while and stuff develops from there. It takes off or it doesn't, but that would be based on actual knowledge rather than requirements, pre-requisites and assumptions.

 

I don't mind spending time, emotion and resources with no guarantee of success - I don't know how logical that is, but that's the only way I know to get to know a person for who they are.

 

But people are in a rush now, and apparently that makes it ok for total randomers to demand the most intimate details of your life as a matter of course.

 

It doesn't have to be that way, and I don't personally want to subjet myself to that sort of stuff.

[elaine567]

And most women with high numbers who divulge this info probably lie.

 

I would guess so, as despite living in a sexualised society, a woman with a high number is still not seen as a desirable quantity by many men.

The double standards persist.

He is just sowing wild oats as he is perfectly entitled to do, but she is a [insert derogatory term of choice].

 

In a society where men expect women to "put out" by the 4th date and then the resulting "relationship" may not last much longer, then how on earth can most women, then have low numbers?

There is no factory producing never ending virgins/near virgins, the women they or someone else has pumped and dumped are the same batch of women they then look to find a "low number" wife/partner in.

How does that work????

[Els]

This is the danger with asking stats off of near strangers - you jump to ready-made answers right away.

 

A high number doesn't automatically equate to sexual prowess or an adventurous spirit or even a high drive, nor does it equate to promiscuity or lack of personal boundaries or unfaithfulness.

 

In the same way, a low number doesn't automatically equate to low drive, lack of opportunity, a prudish or 'vanilla' sexual mindset, nor does it equate to strong morals or guaranteed loyalty.

 

Ergo, the 'number' itself means nothing without a context.

 

I would not pursue a relationship with a guy without getting a sense of his character, how he's lead his life until now, how he sees his place in the world, and ultimately how compatible his core values are to mine, but I won't know that unless I make the effort to get to know him as a person, which takes time; by the time I get to that point, any number becomes irrelevant. That's been my experience so far, and I've never been asked my exact number by anyone.

 

I agree. My partners and I have usually eventually had it come up in conversation, but for us it was a natural part of the "getting to know each other" process, just one of the hundreds of things that we would have talked about by then. By the time we got to that conversation, the number in and of itself wouldn't have mattered much, and anyway we could have made a good guess based on everything else we already knew about them at that stage, if we had really wanted to. But I don't think it's wrong to have a mutual conversation at some point, if both people are curious and comfortable discussing it.

 

This probably answers Shining One's question, too. The reason is that we prefer not to date the kind of men who need to 'save time' on getting to know us as a person and think that asking for a number immediately would be a good 'shortcut'. In fact, I'm generally wary of men who want to take 'shortcuts' while dating, instead of being interested in taking time and getting to know me as a person.

[Shining One]

I would guess so, as despite living in a sexualised society, a woman with a high number is still not seen as a desirable quantity by many men.

The double standards persist.

He is just sowing wild oats as he is perfectly entitled to do, but she is a [insert derogatory term of choice].

Of course it's a double standard. Hopefully our society will eventually evolve beyond all of the double standards, both the ones that favor men (such as this one) and the ones that favor women. I imagine this will take generations though.

In a society where men expect women to "put out" by the 4th date and then the resulting "relationship" may not last much longer, then how on earth can most women, then have low numbers?

There is no factory producing never ending virgins/near virgins, the women they or someone else has pumped and dumped are the same batch of women they then look to find a "low number" wife/partner in.

How does that work????

This is speculation on my part. For men who believe this way, there are two pools of women. The group you have fun with and the group you pursue for marriage. I don't condone it, but I don't see it as any different from women having fun with "bad boys" in their youth and then settling down with a good provider.

[thecrucible]

The guy I started this thread about I decided to give him a pass but yeah just not sure. I mean he asks me that and we've kissed and since then have been texting a little bit every day for the past 4 days or whatever. But it's all good for me getting to know him etc until he starts trying to take it to almost cybersex level hmm but then earlier was asking about whether I meant to kiss him etc.

 

I think that's why the question got me up in the first place like "Why is he asking me this?" or "why does he need to know this information about me so quickly?". I'm not a prude but when the flirting hints at sexual stuff via text or online, I get uncomfortable because I don't feel like I'm at the same level as him atm. I'm just trying to keep it civil 'cause I will see him at tennis club every week. He was only not there this week because of an injury.

[Els]

The guy I started this thread about I decided to give him a pass but yeah just not sure. I mean he asks me that and we've kissed and since then have been texting a little bit every day for the past 4 days or whatever. But it's all good for me getting to know him etc until he starts trying to take it to almost cybersex level hmm but then earlier was asking about whether I meant to kiss him etc.

 

I think that's why the question got me up in the first place like "Why is he asking me this?" or "why does he need to know this information about me so quickly?". I'm not a prude but when the flirting hints at sexual stuff via text or online, I get uncomfortable because I don't feel like I'm at the same level as him atm. I'm just trying to keep it civil 'cause I will see him at tennis club every week. He was only not there this week because of an injury.

 

This guy definitely sounds like bad news to me, especially considering that you had to take his hand off your butt! Better to pass on him and just stay at acquaintance level, for sure.