Do Men Suffer As Much

[Whoknew30]

Don't mistake my meaning. My wife did deeply care for her AP. But the "man" she had fallen for was an illusion, an illusion carefully crafted by her AP to get her to have sex with him. I don't doubt for a second that my wife really liked (perhaps even loved) that illusion, but, it was all fake. That's my point, not that she didn't care, but that the person she cared about never really existed in the first place.

 

AP's have a huge advantage over husbands/wives that's difficult to compare against; they can say anything. My wife's AP talked about getting her pregnant and told her that I was a bad man because I wouldn't do it for her. He could do this, and could lead my wife to believe he'd help her get pregnant because he never intended to follow through on it. He has a vasectomy. My wife needs IVF. He's already got a set of kids with his wife. And he'd be financially destroyed by a divorce (kids, stay at home wife). He could NEVER pay for what it would take to get my W pregnant, even if he really wanted to (and if the clock wasn't ticking; all this needs to happen in the next few years). But he sure as h**l could talk about it, and use it to drive a wedge into our relationship because he had no intention of ever following through on it. It's unreality, and there's no way to compete with it.

 

If I woke up this morning and started talking to my wife about a trip to Paris, I'd have to really mean it. I'd have to have the money/time to make it happen. I'd have to start planning it. But if I were in in an affair, I could wake up this morning and start talking to my AP about Paris; telling her how much I'd like to take her picture under the tower and then take a helicopter ride around the city. Shoot, follow it up with a yacht rental on the Mediterranean for good measure, why not? Because it's all make believe. I'm never going to do it, so I can just make up some perfect scenario. And that poor woman would go home to her husband and think "Why won't he take me to Paris". Because, he'd actually have to do it! I wouldn't; and never intended to take you anywhere but to bed. And that's a fundamental mismatch between an AP and a "real" relationship.

 

 

Of course a BS wants to think this...when a man lives a woman he wants to have sex, it's part of it.

 

I think it's amusing that most BH wants to sex an A is all about sex with a man but also claim they have sex with their wives out of love.

 

Going by this, o man has ever had sex with a woman bc they love them. They only ever he sex out of live once their married.

 

My AP & I never talked about "Paris" or pretend scenarios. We talked about reality, he showed me after Dday he was wiling to go through it with me. He didn't run away, he actually told his gf they were done, which I found out from another source after the fact.

 

You're speaking about money & pretend. It's understandable bc your a new BS...but seen so many A & most aren't exactly what you're speaking of. How hypocritical of logic, only married men that love their wives are the only ones that can live beyond sex...that is not true by far. I personally think this a defense mechanism for BS...every A in history has only been not real & fake.

 

Wars have been fought over A, not all of them are fake, the feelings aren't fake & that's part of the reality of an A...that's what hurts. Yes, a WS may have fallen in love with someone else & it may have been very real.

 

If a BS can't except that fact...then that isn't real reconciliation. It's brain washing the WS to say what a BS wants to hear...tobwant hear hear or think that every A is make believe, is also very much a false reality.

[Girlfromcali]

Well, I can only give 2 perspectives; and both 2nd or 3rd hand, but I'll try because I think it's important for women to see how some men view this.

 

My friends/acquaintances who would classify as "serial cheats"? They are annoyed because someone "fell out of the rotation". They start looking for someone new and "blast" the old woman publicly (to other men). "She wasn't that hot", "She sucked in bed" (after telling me 3 months before she was a goddess), "She made a huge mistake, she'll be back".. But suffer? I'm not sure I'd classify that as suffering, it's more like loss of a physical good than it is an emotional loss.

 

My wife's AP? He went back to his wife, but not his old life. He's suffering greatly, his wife is making him bleed a lot for this transgression on their marriage. Does he think about my W? I'm sure he does. Does he pine after her? Again, I'm sure he does. But is that love/desire based in reality? Nope, not even a little bit. I'd say it's the same feeling I had as a teenager looking at images of Pamela Anderson (yeah, I'm dating myself); it's a lust feeling because of everything my wife represented to him and the action he was getting on the side with a beautiful woman. He misses the eating cake. Doesn't mean he loves that cake, just that he really likes to cake in general and would like to have some again. He's desperately trying to rebuild his marriage; he went from having 2 cakes to 0, so obviously he's feeling a big loss. But, from the outside, yes, he just went back to his old life like nothing happened. And, a few months/years from now, that's exactly what it will be; just a black mark on both marriages (or people, should either couple D).

 

Yes, I know those things are true what you're saying. My xMM told me all those things to my face, how he wanted to be a cake eater, and how he only wanted me to exist for his pleasure. That wasn't in the beginning, obviously. When he was coming on to me, it was all soulmates and love and I would die for yous etc.

 

I know my xMM is suffering but I know it's not because of me. There was something wrong before (the reason that made him cheat), and those issues are still there.

[Girlfromcali]

I guess the trauma of the shift from "I love you, you're my soulmate, I'm in love with you, first thing I think about when I wake up, the last before I go to sleep, I've never wanted anyone as much, just the thought of you turns me on more than anything has ever before, I would die for you, you complete me (at that point my logic was saying that's psychopathic considering it's a line from a movie)...

to basically just using me as a sex object and nothing else, has given me PTSD!

[DKT3]

Of course a BS wants to think this...when a man lives a woman he wants to have sex, it's part of it.

 

I think it's amusing that most BH wants to sex an A is all about sex with a man but also claim they have sex with their wives out of love.

 

Going by this, o man has ever had sex with a woman bc they love them. They only ever he sex out of live once their married.

 

My AP & I never talked about "Paris" or pretend scenarios. We talked about reality, he showed me after Dday he was wiling to go through it with me. He didn't run away, he actually told his gf they were done, which I found out from another source after the fact.

 

You're speaking about money & pretend. It's understandable bc your a new BS...but seen so many A & most aren't exactly what you're speaking of. How hypocritical of logic, only married men that love their wives are the only ones that can live beyond sex...that is not true by far. I personally think this a defense mechanism for BS...every A in history has only been not real & fake.

 

Wars have been fought over A, not all of them are fake, the feelings aren't fake & that's part of the reality of an A...that's what hurts. Yes, a WS may have fallen in love with someone else & it may have been very real.

 

If a BS can't except that fact...then that isn't real reconciliation. It's brain washing the WS to say what a BS wants to hear...tobwant hear hear or think that every A is make believe, is also very much a false reality.

 

The stuff you say just simply doesn't sound like someone who should really be married. You say if a BS can't accept that Thier partner was in love with AP then it can't be a real R, yet it's OK to be in love and always will be (your words) with the AP and successfully R. I guess as long as it makes sense to you.

[gettingstronger]

The stuff you say just simply doesn't sound like someone who should really be married. You say if a BS can't accept that Thier partner was in love with AP then it can't be a real R, yet it's OK to be in love and always will be (your words) with the AP and successfully R. I guess as long as it makes sense to you.

 

 

 

I think it comes from the desire to have meant that much to her AP.

[jah526]

My scumbag friends, yes, this is what they all do. "Say anything" to get women in bed. And because most of them are wealthy, things like "Helicopter rides over the med" seem, at least on the face of it, somewhat reasonable. The difference here is they have 0 intention of following through on any of it, it's not that they are building an unrealistic fantasy, it's just they have no action behind the words beyond "get her in bed".

 

Just curious - why do you want to have friends like this?

[Girlfromcali]

I think it comes from the desire to have meant that much to her AP.

 

I never meant anything to him. He couldn't have cared less about me. It's not an easy thing to accept when you obsessively think about him for years every day all the time.

 

What was it all for? It was all for nothing.

[DKT3]

Just curious - why do you want to have friends like this?

 

Honestly?

 

I've encountered men like this, grow up with a couple. In fact is n my original thread on this site there was 8 pages of dialogue deleted as I described my friends attitude towards women.

 

Bottom left he is there is a large percentage of men who will in fact say or do whatever it takes to get a woman into his bed.

[somanymistakes]

Of course there are guys like that - but why be friends with them, especially if you think they're scumbags?

[Whoknew30]

I think it comes from the desire to have meant that much to her AP.

 

Actually i think opposite. I think BS trigger hearing a WS saying what I'm saying.

 

So nmany one can ever have loved or cared unless married. The only person that will ever mean anything is only a spouse in life & if they say any caring cane out of anywhere else, it's all a li based only on sex? & anyone say there ever was caring & lol be in an A has to be lying.

 

 

If that was true, the divorce rate in America wouldn't be half & there would never be break ups or A.

[DKT3]

Of course there are guys like that - but why be friends with them, especially if you think they're scumbags?

In my case one of them was the son of my mom's BFF. We grew up together since in diapers. Our bond was forged in fire. He was horrible to women, while I didn't agree with his behavior it didn't directly affect me or impact my attitude towards women and relationships. So I guess because it didn't really matter to me. I would scold him from time to time or tell him he is being an azzhole, but it didn't really hurt our friendship.

 

We still talk a couple times a year and his attitude changed with the birth of his daughter.

[Whoknew30]

The stuff you say just simply doesn't sound like someone who should really be married. You say if a BS can't accept that Thier partner was in love with AP then it can't be a real R, yet it's OK to be in love and always will be (your words) with the AP and successfully R. I guess as long as it makes sense to you.

 

I'm saying the a married person isn't only ever in love with their spouse...real reconciliation is understanding beyond what only one person thinks they know.

 

I cared for AP, doesn't mean I didn't walk away or I see him. Love is action , not just words & any BS should know that. What hurt during your w A, her feelings or her actions. Bet a spouse wanting to sleep with or liking someone else is not as bad as sleeping with...do you see the difference between a feeling & a action?

 

What I get from you "A was all fake & if it wasn't then one shouldn't be married"...that would be only sex addicts that have A going by that logic. Does it happen, yes but that's not the only reason.

[DKT3]

Actually i think opposite. I think BS trigger hearing a WS saying what I'm saying.

 

So nmany one can ever have loved or cared unless married. The only person that will ever mean anything is only a spouse in life & if they say any caring cane out of anywhere else, it's all a li based only on sex? & anyone say there ever was caring & lol be in an A has to be lying.

 

 

If that was true, the divorce rate in America wouldn't be half & there would never be break ups or A.

 

Nah, no trigger here. I just know for me it's unacceptable. Honest or not, I feel my wife was like I love that man and always will I would simply say to the left is the front door, need me to hold it while you pack up your car.

 

The more you explain the more clear it is you do not get it.

[Elliebo]

I think you'll always have a soft spot for them but lets get real.....if you decided to be together would it have worked out??? With the daily stresses of life and other normal routine the excitement and thrill would soon run dry.

 

Also remember what you were doing was based on a lie and wrong! Remind yourself of this!

 

For me my AP was probably a bit more in to me in the end and I choose to walk away. I was also married when i met ap but im now single however he remained in the same situation and I often think our fantasy of a relationship kept him going where else I felt I couldn't move on as he was holiding me back.

 

Over 2 years is a long time...put him to the back of your mind and move on. X

[Whoknew30]

Nah, no trigger here. I just know for me it's unacceptable. Honest or not, I feel my wife was like I love that man and always will I would simply say to the left is the front door, need me to hold it while you pack up your car.

 

The more you explain the more clear it is you do not get it.[/quote

 

I think for anyone to think they have sat so over someone else's feelings is someone that expects a human not to be human.

 

Actions & feelings are two different things....wether a EA & or PA it's the actions that make an A not the feelings..

 

EA...writing emails, texts messages, meeting up to talk...all actions.

 

Pa....action of sex, mixed in with previous stated actions..

 

Feelings aren't what makes an A, it's the actions someone commits. One can feel how ever they want about anything, if they don't commit the action then the betrayal doesn't happen.

 

I think it's pretty clear..

[DKT3]

I'm saying the a married person isn't only ever in love with their spouse...real reconciliation is understanding beyond what only one person thinks they know.

 

I cared for AP, doesn't mean I didn't walk away or I see him. Love is action , not just words & any BS should know that. What hurt during your w A, her feelings or her actions. Bet a spouse wanting to sleep with or liking someone else is not as bad as sleeping with...do you see the difference between a feeling & a action?

 

What I get from you "A was all fake & if it wasn't then one shouldn't be married"...that would be only sex addicts that have A going by that logic. Does it happen, yes but that's not the only reason.

 

Not at all what I'm saying, don't expect you to understand.

 

What I'm saying is our simply can honestly do both. You can't say I love my husband but I also love the knife I stab him with.

 

Feelings in affairs can be real, but can you really commit back into your marriage if you're unwilling to let it go and move on. I have said this before you just seem to think it's OK and your husband should accept it. That all BS should accept Thier spouses is in love with some one else.

 

If your son was dating a woman and he says to you mom she cheated and is in love with him, but wants to stay with me what advice would you give?

[DKT3]

Nah, no trigger here. I just know for me it's unacceptable. Honest or not, I feel my wife was like I love that man and always will I would simply say to the left is the front door, need me to hold it while you pack up your car.

 

The more you explain the more clear it is you do not get it.[/quote

 

I think for anyone to think they have sat so over someone else's feelings is someone that expects a human not to be human.

 

Actions & feelings are two different things....wether a EA & or PA it's the actions that make an A not the feelings..

 

EA...writing emails, texts messages, meeting up to talk...all actions.

 

Pa....action of sex, mixed in with previous stated actions..

 

Feelings aren't what makes an A, it's the actions someone commits. One can feel how ever they want about anything, if they don't commit the action then the betrayal doesn't happen.

 

I think it's pretty clear..

 

Nope, disagree, strongly

[Elliebo]

Yes. I agree w/what you have said. I guess when I said I was pursuing, I meant that he didn't seek me out initially. It was a slow build situation... happened over the course of a year of friendly conversations, etc. I don't want anyone to think I'm a bunny-boiler! Believe me, I gave him LOTS of space and he gave me lots of BS about how he was leaving... :0 Thanks for the message... I need to hear these things on days like this.

 

 

Yes you do need to hear these things. It keeps you sane!

 

I think lots about my AP but I know its wrong and he was using me despite the **** he was telling me! Stay strong x

[DKT3]

That logic makes a marriage about what you can take from it and not what you bring to it. My wife deserves a man fully committed to her and I deserve that from her. If she is in love with another man then I don't get what I deserve, I don't care if she isn't sleeping with him, her mind and emotions are split.

[Whoknew30]

That logic makes a marriage about what you can take from it and not what you bring to it. My wife deserves a man fully committed to her and I deserve that from her. If she is in love with another man then I don't get what I deserve, I don't care if she isn't sleeping with him, her mind and emotions are split.

 

Who said "in love"...caring for someone from afar isn't actively "in love".

 

Emotions only become split when putting actions into another person.

 

If feeling are what's based on commitment, then guys cheat every time they look at an attractive woman & think of her in any type of sexual way....that's a feeling.

 

I've been with my H since 15 too, he's older & had a gf before me. Same girl called him a week before our wedding to make sure he really wanted to marry me. I think he'll always care about her even though he tells me no...I don't care bc there hasn't been any action towards this girl nor do I feel he's less committed bc I know they had feelings....I could care a less nor do I think it effects our marriage.

 

I know he's human & realistic that he is capable of having private feelings & still being committed to me. I guess I've just never been insecure about someone else's feelings only their actions. He crossed it again or I did, we'd be divorced but as long as we stay committed to each other actively, I'm not insecure about our marriage. It's been 9 years & we've kept our promises, which has been more years than we were married before A.

 

 

This whole thread was about OM...& several wrote the A did affect them,

 

Saying no WS in A could ever have cared about AP is not true...imo

[freengreen]

As much as what DK3 expects after an A is only fair and legit to say the least, what whoknew30 says is what practically happens.

 

I am sitting here trying to wash off any thoughs of him, yet I think of him 50% of the day, not necessarily all good things about him but, at the end of the day that is the fact. I feel bad because my H thinks I am over him, its done and dusted. I want it to be that way too!.. yet the moment isnt here. All questions like "how could he do this to me" to "Does he even remember me now?".. are all there...

I really dont get why it is so hard to wipe those few good highs off even though the self is trying so hard!!!... what kind of mindfak is this?!?!

 

Its so terrible to be in this seat.

[DKT3]

As much as what DK3 expects after an A is only fair and legit to say the least, what whoknew30 says is what practically happens.

 

I am sitting here trying to wash off any thoughs of him, yet I think of him 50% of the day, not necessarily all good things about him but, at the end of the day that is the fact. I feel bad because my H thinks I am over him, its done and dusted. I want it to be that way too!.. yet the moment isnt here. All questions like "how could he do this to me" to "Does he even remember me now?".. are all there...

I really dont get why it is so hard to wipe those few good highs off even though the self is trying so hard!!!... what kind of mindfak is this?!?!

 

Its so terrible to be in this seat.

 

Huge difference, you know it's not OK and you are recently out, who knew is almost a decade out and you two are in the same spot. In a decade you will likely have a totally different version of this story.

[freengreen]

Huge difference, you know it's not OK and you are recently out, who knew is almost a decade out and you two are in the same spot. In a decade you will likely have a totally different version of this story.

I see what you mean. 10 yrs is a big scoop outta life.

 

I understand whoknew and the restraint she gathered not to contact her MM for good and to choose her family. It does take a lot of you and glue to your ethics.

 

However if my husband came to me and said "I was thinking about her all these 10 yrs and took a lot of restraint to stop myself, I did it because I love you more and wanted our family"... I would get teary after "I was thinking about her all these 10 yrs and took a lot of restraint to stop myself"...rest wouldnt matter... call me a hipocrat, thats ok.

[princess67]

I am entering year 4 of my affair with a married man.

 

I know in my heart I need to get out.

 

But I can't.

 

Why?

 

Because I do not want to be feeling like you do right now. And for the rest of my life.

 

I know I will always grieve him. But I have him here and now. In my arms. And I am living in the moment.

 

One day I will suffer great pain. More than I do now. But I try not to think about that day.

[DKT3]

I see what you mean. 10 yrs is a big scoop outta life.

 

I understand whoknew and the restraint she gathered not to contact her MM for good and to choose her family. It does take a lot of you and glue to your ethics.

 

However if my husband came to me and said "I was thinking about her all these 10 yrs and took a lot of restraint to stop myself, I did it because I love you more and wanted our family"... I would get teary after "I was thinking about her all these 10 yrs and took a lot of restraint to stop myself"...rest wouldnt matter... call me a hipocrat, thats ok.

 

The point I've tried for some time to get through to her is this isn't healthy. The natural progression in life is that feelings unattended die. So after a decade of no contact she should absolutely be indifferent especially since it was destructive towards her family.

 

Making the decision to end the affair isn't the same as choosing your spouse out of a sense of obligation or it the right thing to do. Mindset is extremely important in healthy relationships. If you have the mindset that it's OK to carry feelings then it's impossible to truly commit into another relationship.

 

I believe she believes the things she is saying, but it's because she doesn't know any better. She has to pick up her husband's socks, he is available...This other guy is on a pedestal, the stuff fantasies are made of...Forever a great guy, like frozen in time.

 

It's simply not healthy or fair.