Do Men Suffer As Much

[Whoknew30]

Because you don't truly grasp it all.

 

It's not so much the AP as it is what the AP represents. By you embracing the idea that it's OK to have these glowing feelings and fond memories it actually shows a lack of empathy towards your husband. For him it's just a source of pain and displeasure.

 

Some of the WW's that see this as you are fresh out of infidelity or still holding out hope that it will still be something. You are years and years out.

 

i grasp it fine & am a realist...many time BS doesn't want to believe their spouse didn't actually care for their AP & that's just not true. It's not lack of empathy bc I actually bring honest about how I feel. Do you really think that WS & or AP have long term A with someone they truly didn't like?

 

Lack of empathy means, I don't care what I did to my H, that is t true. I do care but you seem to be getting truth & empathy mixed up. You can't possibly think your WS saw AP for a certain amount of time & never liked the person, that's the reality of why an A hurts, if it didn't then an A would be no big deal.

 

Don't you think it's a little odd that it's mostly only BS stating how much the AP didn't matter, not too many WS say that, actually most WS say how hard it is to let a long term AP go.

[Whoknew30]

I agree, it's not really HER but who HE was at the time that brings the disgust. It's difficult to explain without sounding harsh, but my husband doesn't think of her as a person per se, but as a situation. She represents a time in his life he doesn't think fondly of, not because of her, but because of him. Maybe if/when he forgives himself, that will change. Who knows.

 

In my experience, WH feel this way bc they usually get exposed to OW & W & both women are looking at him like he's a dog..it's hard enough to have to face your spouse (which a WS has to) to turn around & have to face AP that you also lied to too...so of course it's looked at after the fact as a "situation" vs looking at it as another actual person he lied to.

[gettingstronger]

In my experience, WH feel this way bc they usually get exposed to OW & W & both women are looking at him like he's a dog..it's hard enough to have to face your spouse (which a WS has to) to turn around & have to face AP that you also lied to too...so of course it's looked at after the fact as a "situation" vs looking at it as another actual person he lied to.

 

 

In our situation, she lied to herself- claimed she was cool with the arrangement when she wasn't. We're a bit different because our OW has been a nightmare, which most are not.

[DKT3]

i grasp it fine & am a realist...many time BS doesn't want to believe their spouse didn't actually care for their AP & that's just not true. It's not lack of empathy bc I actually bring honest about how I feel. Do you really think that WS & or AP have long term A with someone they truly didn't like?

 

Lack of empathy means, I don't care what I did to my H, that is t true. I do care but you seem to be getting truth & empathy mixed up. You can't possibly think your WS saw AP for a certain amount of time & never liked the person, that's the reality of why an A hurts, if it didn't then an A would be no big deal.

 

Don't you think it's a little odd that it's mostly only BS stating how much the AP didn't matter, not too many WS say that, actually most WS say how hard it is to let a long term AP go.

 

How she felt about him during is irrelevant, how she feels about him now is important.

 

You dont grasp it and it's not being a realist, it's far more fantasy based and a mental escape at this point.

 

What I'm saying is we all have people in our past, those we loved and those we hated. Over time when contact is lost those feelings should move towards indifference. If they don't it's because one is holding on ( in a unhealthy manner). Now couple that natural progression with the fact that this relationship was at the expenses of your family, it's really hard to say you show empathy. Again if you were fresh out your position would be understandable.

 

The impression I get when reading your posts is your a woman who chose to stay married, but not to end the affair. It's not the same, which is why I have a hard time buying you as blissfully married.

[HeCantBreakMe]

How she felt about him during is irrelevant, how she feels about him now is important.

 

You dont grasp it and it's not being a realist, it's far more fantasy based and a mental escape at this point.

 

What I'm saying is we all have people in our past, those we loved and those we hated. Over time when contact is lost those feelings should move towards indifference. If they don't it's because one is holding on ( in a unhealthy manner). Now couple that natural progression with the fact that this relationship was at the expenses of your family, it's really hard to say you show empathy. Again if you were fresh out your position would be understandable.

 

The impression I get when reading your posts is your a woman who chose to stay married, but not to end the affair. It's not the same, which is why I have a hard time buying you as blissfully married.

 

I agree with you to an extent DKT3. I agree that holding on to thoughts good or bad is still having the affair in your mind. I agree that it continues the fantasy and the healthy progression of breakups is the starvation method resulting in indifference.

 

But what I want to emphasize is the difficulty in breaking the obsessive thoughts. Someone posted on here once an addict always an addict. I often wonder how long it takes a drug addict to stop thinking about drugs .. it takes time and it takes a lot of help.

 

These thoughts when they become obsessive and unhealthy (limerence) can be debilitating and extremely difficult to fight especially without help. Can it be done YES but it takes a lot of work, help, support, and the desire to fight the addiction and to understand once an addict always an addict. I often find myself wanting to beat my head against a table or door to try and get the thoughts from my mind. I don't want them there but they are there and I have to accept that for a while they will remain there. The actions are what I am in control of at the moment.

[Whoknew30]

How she felt about him during is irrelevant, how she feels about him now is important.

 

You dont grasp it and it's not being a realist, it's far more fantasy based and a mental escape at this point.

 

What I'm saying is we all have people in our past, those we loved and those we hated. Over time when contact is lost those feelings should move towards indifference. If they don't it's because one is holding on ( in a unhealthy manner). Now couple that natural progression with the fact that this relationship was at the expenses of your family, it's really hard to say you show empathy. Again if you were fresh out your position would be understandable.

 

The impression I get when reading your posts is your a woman who chose to stay married, but not to end the affair. It's not the same, which is why I have a hard time buying you as blissfully married.

 

I ended the A, the day I said...& bc I am being honest that my other man wasn't some kind of demon that tricked me or used me, doesn't mean I'm unempathitic. Empathy is feeling bad for what I did to BOTH men...I did it to both, not just my H.

 

So me being honest about how I feel doesn't make me anything but honest. When I explain my situation, it's bc I'm speaking my truth if I think it pertains to OP question...& many times that entails me going back in the past.

 

I didn't see OM for almost 8 years, NC I'm no where near still in affair fog & if that triggers a BS to hear a WS being honest, well that would be their issues with in themselves, not mine. I don't have a mental escape, I have a past that I faced up to, owned & moved on...anyone that adds their own perception of that, would seem to be to be a person that might be using their own deep issues for interpreting what they hear vs what another person is actually saying. All I'm saying is there is a man in my past that I'll always care enough about that I hope he has a good life & I'll always feel a little bad that I hurt him too. I don't really understand how anyone would equate that to "not ending A"...I think I saw the OM face the day I ended it & it looked no different than me telling my H about the A.

 

I think it's odd any BS would tell someone what their feelings are or how it's "suppose" to go a certain way after day bc if any BS knew all...they probably wouldn't have been surprised by A to begin with..

 

Also, my marriage is good...who said "blissful" no marriage is perfect or always blissful that IMO i "fantasy". That's why I would never say that, I've only said my marriage is good & we're doing the best we ever had...I don't understand how anyone could misinterpret that.

[FoundMyStrength]

All I'm saying is there is a man in my past that I'll always care enough about that I hope he has a good life & I'll always feel a little bad that I hurt him too. I don't really understand how anyone would equate that to "not ending A"...

 

This sounds more like a realistic take on post-affair emotions than anything DKT3 is describing. From the perspective of a fOW who had an intense EA, this is how I feel about xMM. I don't want him in my life, I don't want a renewed connection, what happened was unhealthy and damaging to everyone. But I care for him. I wish him well. I hope his marriage recovers. I hope he is happy and I hope he finds his way.

 

I don't think I've ever felt indifference about anyone who has intersected with my life in any substantive, meaningful way. And honestly, I think it's more unhealthy to stuff down a natural, human feeling of "Hey, that thing over there reminds of someone I once cared about" than it is to simply feel it for a moment and go back to one's hopefully happy, contented day/life with their spouse.

[DKT3]

I agree with you to an extent DKT3. I agree that holding on to thoughts good or bad is still having the affair in your mind. I agree that it continues the fantasy and the healthy progression of breakups is the starvation method resulting in indifference.

 

But what I want to emphasize is the difficulty in breaking the obsessive thoughts. Someone posted on here once an addict always an addict. I often wonder how long it takes a drug addict to stop thinking about drugs .. it takes time and it takes a lot of help.

 

These thoughts when they become obsessive and unhealthy (limerence) can be debilitating and extremely difficult to fight especially without help. Can it be done YES but it takes a lot of work, help, support, and the desire to fight the addiction and to understand once an addict always an addict. I often find myself wanting to beat my head against a table or door to try and get the thoughts from my mind. I don't want them there but they are there and I have to accept that for a while they will remain there. The actions are what I am in control of at the moment.

 

And this is somewhat understandable, what's not is having these same feelings 5, 8, 10 years down the line. I have a college buddy who became a drug addict, been clean for about ten years. He once said the only time he thinks about the drugs or that period is when some asks him about it.

 

I guess what I'm saying in totality, is if you're still having these thoughts and feelings years later it's because you've chosen to not move pass them, because you've chosen to continue to romanticize the situation by using it as a pleasant escape. This is unfair to your spouse no matter what. I find it difficult to believe that one could be all in, while embracing something that was so destructive towards those you claim to be all in with.

 

It's all a choice, none of us are mindless robots, slaves to emotions. If you convince yourself that it's OK to carry a flame for an AP then you will not progress, nor can you ever fully recommit to the marriage.

[DKT3]

I ended the A, the day I said...& bc I am being honest that my other man wasn't some kind of demon that tricked me or used me, doesn't mean I'm unempathitic. Empathy is feeling bad for what I did to BOTH men...I did it to both, not just my H.

 

So me being honest about how I feel doesn't make me anything but honest. When I explain my situation, it's bc I'm speaking my truth if I think it pertains to OP question...& many times that entails me going back in the past.

 

I didn't see OM for almost 8 years, NC I'm no where near still in affair fog & if that triggers a BS to hear a WS being honest, well that would be their issues with in themselves, not mine. I don't have a mental escape, I have a past that I faced up to, owned & moved on...anyone that adds their own perception of that, would seem to be to be a person that might be using their own deep issues for interpreting what they hear vs what another person is actually saying. All I'm saying is there is a man in my past that I'll always care enough about that I hope he has a good life & I'll always feel a little bad that I hurt him too. I don't really understand how anyone would equate that to "not ending A"...I think I saw the OM face the day I ended it & it looked no different than me telling my H about the A.

 

I think it's odd any BS would tell someone what their feelings are or how it's "suppose" to go a certain way after day bc if any BS knew all...they probably wouldn't have been surprised by A to begin with..

 

Also, my marriage is good...who said "blissful" no marriage is perfect or always blissful that IMO i "fantasy". That's why I would never say that, I've only said my marriage is good & we're doing the best we ever had...I don't understand how anyone could misinterpret that.

 

If a drug dealer stops selling drugs for fear of being caught it's not the same as stopping because of a moral conflict. This is no different. Here you have a man who was willing, right along with you to place you're kids in a less desirable situation, to rob your husband from forming the best possible relationship with your kids, who pulled the pin and cheered you on as you attempted to blow up your home. Yes I get how you would forever remember him fondly.

 

Indifference doesn't mean you wish bad for someone....The thing is you've said you love your AP and always will, because he is a good person . Well, thats a bit more then wishing him well or being empathic for however you believe you hurt him.

[Whoknew30]

And this is somewhat understandable, what's not is having these same feelings 5, 8, 10 years down the line. I have a college buddy who became a drug addict, been clean for about ten years. He once said the only time he thinks about the drugs or that period is when some asks him about it.

 

I guess what I'm saying in totality, is if you're still having these thoughts and feelings years later it's because you've chosen to not move pass them, because you've chosen to continue to romanticize the situation by using it as a pleasant escape. This is unfair to your spouse no matter what. I find it difficult to believe that one could be all in, while embracing something that was so destructive towards those you claim to be all in with.

 

It's all a choice, none of us are mindless robots, slaves to emotions. If you convince yourself that it's OK to carry a flame for an AP then you will not progress, nor can you ever fully recommit to the marriage.

 

Well considering my job & degree are based around behavior & addiction, I'm pretty well rounded in the knowledge of feelings & how to handle them & exactly what romantzing is...I'm moved passed my feelings. I care for many people from my past in different ways, OM is just part of that group.

 

I don't think about him everyday & ponder for hours. If I hear or see something that brings it back, I do remember. The relationship with OM wasn't destructive, my marriage (at that time) was more destructive...that's why I had the A in the first place. I didn't care about my marriage, which is a little different than people that have A but never intended to leave...I was ready to leave, not bc of OM, just in general.

 

Trying to control what one feels is one of the most destructive behaviors, it's lying to one's self. Facing a feeling, dealing with & coming to terms, is the healthy way to go. If I feel like slapping a person, doesn't mean I'm going to, nor once I walk away is it going to stick with me all day. You face your feelings, feel them & move on.

 

This logic of every feeling a spouse is means this or that, IMO is bogus...you can carpet sweep feelings but that doesn't mean they went away. It kind of surprises me that a BS that has reconciled would ever say that bc if going to any kind of counseling, there's absolutely no way a therapist would council that kind of logic as healthy...that's the type of logic that gets one into an A, not being able to deal with kne's feelings healthy. Owning feelings isn't a bad thing, intact if you read it helps healing, not slows it.

[Girlfromcali]

I think, in fact, he was typical of almost all men you'll meet today, tomorrow and the day after. Look, I'm a man; and I probably have some "unique" views on love and sexuality that are just "mine", but, I talk to a lot of other men on a day to day basis. Almost all of them would take the deal you offered. And no, they wouldn't fall in love with you (or anyone else). It's just sex to them. And they are seeking it from you for a myriad of reasons; not getting it at home, not getting it at all, not getting the kind of sex they want, etc, etc. But none of the items on most male lists have anything to do with "love", they are almost always about sex.

 

Speaking for myself, it took a very long time in a committed/married relationship before love/sex became intertwined into one thing. And, even now, sometimes sex is just sex; it is the way I show love, yes, but it's also an activity that I enjoy for it's own sake. I can honestly say, I can count on one hand the number of men I know who really "intertwine" love and sex into one thing and wouldn't have one without the other.

 

WW's, please, wake up to the reality here. You might feel love, he might say love, and for some very small percentage of these relationships, maybe there really is love there. The vast majority of them aren't that way; and I don't ever need to be a WH to know that. I've been a single man, and that was always the case with me personally. And I've talked to enough straying men to know; it's not love that gets them with another woman, it's sex.

 

I wanted to comment on this. I didn't know any of this before the A, because I had never thought about these things before. I only had one real "love" experience and it was with my H.

Now, after reading these stories here I do know what it was but I didn't know then.

It made no sense. I trusted him because I trust people. He made a big deal of hating liars. He always said he'd never cheat. He always said he had never cheated because he had never wanted to. If someone asked why, he'd say sex is the same when you turn the lights off, and he gets everything he wants from his W.

Now, after all that when he started coming on to me very aggressively, it was confusing. All of a sudden I am his soulmate, he has never wanted anyone before etc. if you are not familiar with that, it really feels like real love. Now, the responsibility I take for my part too, of course. I am not a "victim" by any means. However, at that time I wasn't able to understand why he put so much effort in having me. He has a lot of opportunities with much more beautiful and younger women than me. I do know now that the things I thought he did because our great "connection" were actually pretty calculated. I get it now but boy was I confused back then.

OK, I now know what it was about. However, I trust people's words. Or at least I used to. Had he said ever that he only wanted sex, that would have been a very different story.

You live and learn.

[Nathan234]

Yes, they do. I would.

[Overtaxed]

No he's not my only relationship.

 

I've been thinking about this. I guess it's a very personal thing (isn't everything!). I chatted to a couple of my friends I'd discussed this with before & they both said that once the initial 'high' was over their drive has always been pretty much the same. They are both pretty low drive & its eventually become an issue in all of their relationships.

 

Being with the same person I can say that my desire ebbs & flows. I can be very high desire. Physical, medical issues have an effect but not a huge one. Emotional problems with our relationship tank my libido! I'm NOT a hysterical bonding lady really.

 

I know/have known a few serial cheats (men & women) & the partner they're with eventually makes no difference to their cheating. I don't really believe the old "once a cheat, always a cheat" UNLESS it's a serial cheat. I think it's a very different thing.

 

Well, I'll chime in and provide a male perspective; my drive has very little to do with my partner. It was high before I met her, high with other women, high in the beginning of our relationship and high pretty much consistently through it. You know when you have high sex drive? When you've seriously injured yourself and you're on pain killers but stop taking them even though the pain is blinding so you can have sex again. Yes, that was me (with my W). IMHO, sex drive seems to be pretty much built in; I've always had a much higher drive than most people; the only difference between women I can see is the number of times I actually can act on it, not the underlying feeling.

[Overtaxed]

i grasp it fine & am a realist...many time BS doesn't want to believe their spouse didn't actually care for their AP & that's just not true. It's not lack of empathy bc I actually bring honest about how I feel. Do you really think that WS & or AP have long term A with someone they truly didn't like?

 

Lack of empathy means, I don't care what I did to my H, that is t true. I do care but you seem to be getting truth & empathy mixed up. You can't possibly think your WS saw AP for a certain amount of time & never liked the person, that's the reality of why an A hurts, if it didn't then an A would be no big deal.

 

Don't you think it's a little odd that it's mostly only BS stating how much the AP didn't matter, not too many WS say that, actually most WS say how hard it is to let a long term AP go.

 

Don't mistake my meaning. My wife did deeply care for her AP. But the "man" she had fallen for was an illusion, an illusion carefully crafted by her AP to get her to have sex with him. I don't doubt for a second that my wife really liked (perhaps even loved) that illusion, but, it was all fake. That's my point, not that she didn't care, but that the person she cared about never really existed in the first place.

 

AP's have a huge advantage over husbands/wives that's difficult to compare against; they can say anything. My wife's AP talked about getting her pregnant and told her that I was a bad man because I wouldn't do it for her. He could do this, and could lead my wife to believe he'd help her get pregnant because he never intended to follow through on it. He has a vasectomy. My wife needs IVF. He's already got a set of kids with his wife. And he'd be financially destroyed by a divorce (kids, stay at home wife). He could NEVER pay for what it would take to get my W pregnant, even if he really wanted to (and if the clock wasn't ticking; all this needs to happen in the next few years). But he sure as h**l could talk about it, and use it to drive a wedge into our relationship because he had no intention of ever following through on it. It's unreality, and there's no way to compete with it.

 

If I woke up this morning and started talking to my wife about a trip to Paris, I'd have to really mean it. I'd have to have the money/time to make it happen. I'd have to start planning it. But if I were in in an affair, I could wake up this morning and start talking to my AP about Paris; telling her how much I'd like to take her picture under the tower and then take a helicopter ride around the city. Shoot, follow it up with a yacht rental on the Mediterranean for good measure, why not? Because it's all make believe. I'm never going to do it, so I can just make up some perfect scenario. And that poor woman would go home to her husband and think "Why won't he take me to Paris". Because, he'd actually have to do it! I wouldn't; and never intended to take you anywhere but to bed. And that's a fundamental mismatch between an AP and a "real" relationship.

[Life lessons]

Are you talking about male APs/OM?

 

There may be a rare few here and there that are upset if the A with their MW ends, but the other 95% of OM are simply a little bummed that they are down one booty call off the list.

 

Men don't seek married women for actual in depth relationships or plan futures with them.

 

In the case of single OM, if they pursue a MW it is almost strictly for NSA sex only.

 

Single OM hook up with MW so they don't have to heavy emotional ties or relationships with them.

 

 

I know of a current situation where a mw is having an A with a SM. He pursued her for a while.....they built an emotional connection. I guess it was an EA at first and then it became physical months after. She states the single man (whom is approx. 11 yrs younger) has told her he has intense feelings for her. I know she has tried unsuccessfully to stop contact several times but it just hasn't been successful. She has no intentions on leaving her H. So there are situations where the SM partner does feel more than just sex. But maybe it is rare. Idk. From what she has stated, he has never been with a married woman nor has sex without an emotional connection. Maybe men just hide feelings better than females!? ETA. It's a LD relationship but he contacts her daily and they see one another every few months.

[Life lessons]

Don't mistake my meaning. My wife did deeply care for her AP. But the "man" she had fallen for was an illusion, an illusion carefully crafted by her AP to get her to have sex with him. I don't doubt for a second that my wife really liked (perhaps even loved) that illusion, but, it was all fake. That's my point, not that she didn't care, but that the person she cared about never really existed in the first place.

 

AP's have a huge advantage over husbands/wives that's difficult to compare against; they can say anything. My wife's AP talked about getting her pregnant and told her that I was a bad man because I wouldn't do it for her. He could do this, and could lead my wife to believe he'd help her get pregnant because he never intended to follow through on it. He has a vasectomy. My wife needs IVF. He's already got a set of kids with his wife. And he'd be financially destroyed by a divorce (kids, stay at home wife). He could NEVER pay for what it would take to get my W pregnant, even if he really wanted to (and if the clock wasn't ticking; all this needs to happen in the next few years). But he sure as h**l could talk about it, and use it to drive a wedge into our relationship because he had no intention of ever following through on it. It's unreality, and there's no way to compete with it.

 

If I woke up this morning and started talking to my wife about a trip to Paris, I'd have to really mean it. I'd have to have the money/time to make it happen. I'd have to start planning it. But if I were in in an affair, I could wake up this morning and start talking to my AP about Paris; telling her how much I'd like to take her picture under the tower and then take a helicopter ride around the city. Shoot, follow it up with a yacht rental on the Mediterranean for good measure, why not? Because it's all make believe. I'm never going to do it, so I can just make up some perfect scenario. And that poor woman would go home to her husband and think "Why won't he take me to Paris". Because, he'd actually have to do it! I wouldn't; and never intended to take you anywhere but to bed. And that's a fundamental mismatch between an AP and a "real" relationship.

 

 

I agree with your statements. Furthermore affairs are nothing but fantasies. Well the majority of them. Hard to build a new life with an AP when it's based on lies and deceit!

[Birdies]

Don't mistake my meaning. My wife did deeply care for her AP. But the "man" she had fallen for was an illusion, an illusion carefully crafted by her AP to get her to have sex with him. I don't doubt for a second that my wife really liked (perhaps even loved) that illusion, but, it was all fake. That's my point, not that she didn't care, but that the person she cared about never really existed in the first place.

 

AP's have a huge advantage over husbands/wives that's difficult to compare against; they can say anything. My wife's AP talked about getting her pregnant and told her that I was a bad man because I wouldn't do it for her. He could do this, and could lead my wife to believe he'd help her get pregnant because he never intended to follow through on it. He has a vasectomy. My wife needs IVF. He's already got a set of kids with his wife. And he'd be financially destroyed by a divorce (kids, stay at home wife). He could NEVER pay for what it would take to get my W pregnant, even if he really wanted to (and if the clock wasn't ticking; all this needs to happen in the next few years). But he sure as h**l could talk about it, and use it to drive a wedge into our relationship because he had no intention of ever following through on it. It's unreality, and there's no way to compete with it.

 

If I woke up this morning and started talking to my wife about a trip to Paris, I'd have to really mean it. I'd have to have the money/time to make it happen. I'd have to start planning it. But if I were in in an affair, I could wake up this morning and start talking to my AP about Paris; telling her how much I'd like to take her picture under the tower and then take a helicopter ride around the city. Shoot, follow it up with a yacht rental on the Mediterranean for good measure, why not? Because it's all make believe. I'm never going to do it, so I can just make up some perfect scenario. And that poor woman would go home to her husband and think "Why won't he take me to Paris". Because, he'd actually have to do it! I wouldn't; and never intended to take you anywhere but to bed. And that's a fundamental mismatch between an AP and a "real" relationship.

 

As most generalizations are: this is probably true in most cases, but I'd be wary of proclaiming absolutes. My former MM is the exact same partner he was when we were in an affair. We are doing all the things we talked about - travel, time with families, etc. He is equally loving. He never tried to charm me, we were just honest about our feelings.

 

If the dude is a serial cheat like your scumbag friends, then I think you're 100% correct. But it's not always a fantasy. The problem is that unless you know each other well, it can be very hard to tell one from another.

[Life lessons]

I do think it's possible although statistics show your case is definitely a rare occurrence. But yes, it can and does happen.

[Girlfromcali]

So if men don't suffer then what do they do after the A is over?

 

Go back happily to live their old lives like nothing happened?

[Grey Cloud]

So if men don't suffer then what do they do after the A is over?

 

Go back happily to live their old lives like nothing happened?

 

That is exactly what mine did!

[freengreen]

That is exactly what mine did!

plus one. mine too, good for me!

[Taxed]

So if men don't suffer then what do they do after the A is over?

 

Go back happily to live their old lives like nothing happened?

 

Not happily, no - actually that would make it easier to stomach for me if he did. But he is doing what he has to do according to his values.

[Overtaxed]

As most generalizations are: this is probably true in most cases, but I'd be wary of proclaiming absolutes. My former MM is the exact same partner he was when we were in an affair. We are doing all the things we talked about - travel, time with families, etc. He is equally loving. He never tried to charm me, we were just honest about our feelings.

 

If the dude is a serial cheat like your scumbag friends, then I think you're 100% correct. But it's not always a fantasy. The problem is that unless you know each other well, it can be very hard to tell one from another.

 

Fair statement; and I'm sure there are some A's out there that are based on reality, what it would really look like to be together and what you'd really want to do for one another. I suspect these are the A's that have a chance of leading to a real relationship. However, I do suspect they are the exception; in my wife's case, I know that was not the situation, I was able to read a lot of their correspondence, and it was totally based in "fantasy land". She did say that the AP said "Would you be OK being poor/living hand to mouth", which was an honest statement, but then went right on to talk about IVF and kids (which is total fantasy for a "poor" couple, especially when the man has a long standing sterilization). There were glimpses of reality, but just long enough to support the fantasy that was being built.

 

My scumbag friends, yes, this is what they all do. "Say anything" to get women in bed. And because most of them are wealthy, things like "Helicopter rides over the med" seem, at least on the face of it, somewhat reasonable. The difference here is they have 0 intention of following through on any of it, it's not that they are building an unrealistic fantasy, it's just they have no action behind the words beyond "get her in bed".

[Overtaxed]

I ended the A, the day I said...& bc I am being honest that my other man wasn't some kind of demon that tricked me or used me, doesn't mean I'm unempathitic. Empathy is feeling bad for what I did to BOTH men...I did it to both, not just my H.

 

So me being honest about how I feel doesn't make me anything but honest. When I explain my situation, it's bc I'm speaking my truth if I think it pertains to OP question...& many times that entails me going back in the past.

 

I didn't see OM for almost 8 years, NC I'm no where near still in affair fog & if that triggers a BS to hear a WS being honest, well that would be their issues with in themselves, not mine. I don't have a mental escape, I have a past that I faced up to, owned & moved on...anyone that adds their own perception of that, would seem to be to be a person that might be using their own deep issues for interpreting what they hear vs what another person is actually saying. All I'm saying is there is a man in my past that I'll always care enough about that I hope he has a good life & I'll always feel a little bad that I hurt him too. I don't really understand how anyone would equate that to "not ending A"...I think I saw the OM face the day I ended it & it looked no different than me telling my H about the A.

 

I think it's odd any BS would tell someone what their feelings are or how it's "suppose" to go a certain way after day bc if any BS knew all...they probably wouldn't have been surprised by A to begin with..

 

Also, my marriage is good...who said "blissful" no marriage is perfect or always blissful that IMO i "fantasy". That's why I would never say that, I've only said my marriage is good & we're doing the best we ever had...I don't understand how anyone could misinterpret that.

 

IMHO, you cannot feel "sorry" for the AP. Now, this is coming from a LS, so please take it as such, but, if you didn't lie to the AP, and he knew you were married, you have no reason to feel "sorry" for him/her. They knew what they were getting into. They knew that they were pulling you out of your marriage. And they knew that, no matter what, their actions were wrong. Love (assuming it was real in the A) does NOT give someone permission to do this to another person. They were just as in the wrong as you were; shame and remorse should be the emotions the AP is feeling, not "sad".

 

Now, if you lied to the AP (sorry, haven't read the entire thread), they didn't know you were married (future faked them), yeah, they have every right to be upset! They were ALSO basically cheated on, just with the AP's husband/wife that they didn't know about it. But, IMHO, it's still highly dangerous to feel "sorry" for them; however much they were hurt, I can nearly guarantee that's 1/100th the amount the LS was hurt.

[Overtaxed]

So if men don't suffer then what do they do after the A is over?

 

Go back happily to live their old lives like nothing happened?

 

Well, I can only give 2 perspectives; and both 2nd or 3rd hand, but I'll try because I think it's important for women to see how some men view this.

 

My friends/acquaintances who would classify as "serial cheats"? They are annoyed because someone "fell out of the rotation". They start looking for someone new and "blast" the old woman publicly (to other men). "She wasn't that hot", "She sucked in bed" (after telling me 3 months before she was a goddess), "She made a huge mistake, she'll be back".. But suffer? I'm not sure I'd classify that as suffering, it's more like loss of a physical good than it is an emotional loss.

 

My wife's AP? He went back to his wife, but not his old life. He's suffering greatly, his wife is making him bleed a lot for this transgression on their marriage. Does he think about my W? I'm sure he does. Does he pine after her? Again, I'm sure he does. But is that love/desire based in reality? Nope, not even a little bit. I'd say it's the same feeling I had as a teenager looking at images of Pamela Anderson (yeah, I'm dating myself); it's a lust feeling because of everything my wife represented to him and the action he was getting on the side with a beautiful woman. He misses the eating cake. Doesn't mean he loves that cake, just that he really likes to cake in general and would like to have some again. He's desperately trying to rebuild his marriage; he went from having 2 cakes to 0, so obviously he's feeling a big loss. But, from the outside, yes, he just went back to his old life like nothing happened. And, a few months/years from now, that's exactly what it will be; just a black mark on both marriages (or people, should either couple D).