Praying for reconciliation

[aileD]

I have no patience to go fix the spelling and typo errors in the previous post sorry.

 

Also how did you find your men's group?

[Regretful one]

My opinion as a BS? She is enjoying being closer to you...she loves you. Your her husband. But... she is conflicted. Because when she's with you and having s good time it's easy to forget about what you did ...but reality is she doesn't want to let herself forget what you did .

 

Id say you are right and she has said similar things. However after being around her for a while thoughts of me and the OW do creep in and it becomes a bit overwhelming to be forced to think about it. Our initial time together can be really really good and yesterday towards night even though we did have sex, afterward she really had a difficult time. My shirt was wet from her tears.

 

It's nice and she is hurting because it IS nice and all those other nice times are in question now. Were they real? When you were with OW...and having nice times with W...were you faking?

 

Again you are correct. She has said things like our good times (in the past when I was also occasionally talking to women online) are all tarnished and not even real. I try to tell her that the good times with her were indeed real. And that even though I did those things I did and do love her. That is not easy for her to believe and I understand it. I obviously loved myself (in a selfish way) more than her. To answer your question (maybe it was a rhetorical question?) I believe that there were times I felt wanted and appreciated. It was a selfish motive and an ego boost. I honestly don't really recognize the person I was doing that. I don't think fondly of the things I did at all. I read on this forum somewhere how a BS felt that her husband always had the memories to think about and it wasn't fair. In my case I am trying to forget those memories. I do not want them in my head.

 

It's easy to just forget and go with the flow...she's struggling with this. Which is good because you don't want a false reconciliation. You don't want her to pretend it never happened and you don't want her to think YOU are pretending I didn't happen.

 

Excellent point. I really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you. I need to be careful that I don't just start thinking that she needs to do the work healing and not me. Its easy for me to just get caught up in working on myself which I am doing but I need to also focus on praying for her and and reassuring her that I am there for her. Sorry for what I did. Making changes to prevent this from every happening again etc.. I also appreciate what you said about false reconciliation. I think she is the type of person who could possibly do something like that to avoid the pain but she seems to be making herself deal with the pain in small amounts. I am also making sure she doesn't think I am minimizing this or pretending like it didn't happen.

 

If you had sex which I think it sounds like you did.....I guarantee you all that's in her mind is "did he touch her like he's touching me? ". "His penis was in someone else's vagina, his lips were on someone else's mouth". "Was she better then me?" "Did he tell her he loved her?" She probably has had awful graphic images of you having sex with this OW.

 

So yeah. Two steps forward, one step back. This is why R takes so long

 

Yes we had sex. I also did other things for her. And again you are saying things that ring true. She told me that sometimes she has terrible images in her mind when we have sex. She told me she doesn't want me to do any "moves" or any "new thing" that I did with the OW with her. She asked me if I kissed the OW and while Im sure she already knew the answer I had to be honest. She asked me about oral sex and again I was honest with her. I hate having to tell her these things as I know it just puts things in her mind but everything Ive read says to answer questions honestly without being X rated. My wife has seen a photo of the OW and knows that the OW is not as attractive as she herself is. The OW is 10 years younger but doesn't hold a candle to my wife. I told my wife that sex wasn't something I enjoyed as much as I do with my wife and that is true. I have told my wife that when we are together the OW isn't there - at least not in my mind and that is true as well. My wife is a sexual person and I think she sometimes gets mad at herself that she wants to have sex with me. I just try to be genuine with her and accepting of whatever she wants. I try to show my wife that I do desire her.

 

Yes absolutely... 2 steps forward one and a half steps back....

 

 

 

Also how did you find your men's group?

 

I found the men's group through our church. It is a good group for me and nice since its a 7 month program it requires a commitment. Ideally id find a support group geared for men dealing with their infidelity but those don't seem to exist here. Nor do groups dealing with separation. Everything is for divorce support or couples...

[aileD]

Yes absolutely... 2 steps forward one and a half steps back

 

It's a slow process but at least it's forward motion.

 

Your wife sounds a lot like me and you are like a jacked up version of where my H is at now. Lol.

 

glad I can provide some insight from this side of the fence.

 

I wish we could find a group like that. My husbands abusive background relates to religion and the church so it's hard to go that route for help. And there don't seem to be many support groups out there. I even asked our counselor if there were any other couples further on in recovery that could "mentor" us but they don't do that.

 

Then I end up here mingled with OWs and people that also have had horrible experiences and chose to leave and can't for the life of themselves figure out why I want to work on my marriage... then I get so frustrated lol

 

Are you guys by chance in the northeast US? Haha just kidding.

 

Wish you and wife well going forward.

 

Oh...watch this video and see if you get any insight from it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=LypLgeN6Fbk

 

And

 

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=k1mYwXy7ojc

 

For your wife

[wmacbride]

op,

i'm glad that you have a group you can call on for support,and that it aligns with your faith.

 

Not long after I found out about my husband's A, he was deployed for some time, and the best support I got -aside from my mom and dad and some good friends who knew what had happened- was from a catholic padre from Quebec. I had been connected to his office when I called the personnel support line for families, and he was so helpful, giving me a different perspective on the situation.

 

About whether or not I wanted to know about he affair- of course I did. I'm not a child.I am a full grown adult who can make my own decisions, but to do that, I need all the pertinent information.

 

From a ws, I would tell my bs. One reason is for the sake of honesty- how can one build a good marriage on lies? The second, you can never trust that your ow/om will never spill the beans.

[mikeylo]

I guess the irony is that while you are the one who hurt her, you have to be the one to comfort and heal her and its with you only that she will find comfort ! I guess it's only in the affair situation , this happens. Anyway , her wanting to be close to you again is an indication what she wants--- you.

 

Well, I really hope you are able to get together. Kids grow up and once hit their teens, don't want to be with parents as much and before you know it, they are out on their own. My son is 18 and gone ! I wouldn't say to my wife , lol but it's now onwards , I know , I need her the most.

[Regretful one]

 

I wish we could find a group like that. My husbands abusive background relates to religion and the church so it's hard to go that route for help. And there don't seem to be many support groups out there. I even asked our counselor if there were any other couples further on in recovery that could "mentor" us but they don't do that.

 

Then I end up here mingled with OWs and people that also have had horrible experiences and chose to leave and can't for the life of themselves figure out why I want to work on my marriage... then I get so frustrated lol

 

Are you guys by chance in the northeast US? Haha just kidding.

 

 

It does seem like there is not a lot of help available to those dealing with infidelity other than via counseling. Early on I had assumed there would be some one or some class available but have found nothing. Like you I was also going to find a mentor couple. The closest thing to that would be my wife's parents who went through this 30 years ago. The problem with that is that while they have always been great to me and I am very close to them they can't be unbiased and I understand that. Their attitude is more about dealing with my wife's pain and that I need to suck it up and do whatever she wants. Which isn't necessarily wrong at all, but I also need someone to support me rather than just insinuate that I screwed up and am lucky to even have a second chance right now. There are rarely calls or emails to check and see how I am doing. Again, Im not saying I deserve that from them but an unbiased mentor couple who is in favor of reconciliation would be welcomed.

 

In many ways thats why I ended up here as well. I told my wife I was on here and if she wants to read any of this she is welcome to do so. Im hoping she doesn't want to read things here as she might just find that it adds to her pain but I will never keep things from her again.

 

I have been a little surprised by the number of people against reconciliation around here. I suppose that is because the number of BS seem to heavily out number the WS on this forum. Because of that many opinions are very negative (perhaps rightfully so) towards marriage after an affair and the WS in general. My wife has told me that she sometimes wants to change jobs now because everyone at her work knows about the affair. She has also told them that she wants to work on saving her marriage and that several of her co-workers/friends tell her once a cheater always a cheater. She sometimes feels like they think she is a fool for wanting to stay in the marriage. Ive told her that they all have their own issues that she doesn't know about. They don't tell her about all of their skeletons. They give advice as if they have lived a perfect life. Until this happened my wife had what she considered a great marriage and she really mourns that.

 

Nope we are in the North West lol.

 

 

Oh...watch this video and see if you get any insight from it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=LypLgeN6Fbk

 

And

 

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=k1mYwXy7ojc

 

For your wife

 

Thanks for the videos. Ive read that it is important to say I will never do this again but as the video points out if I didn't keep my vows before why would I now?... Good point. While I have said similar things to my wife I have also told her and shown her by my actions (counseling, mens group etc..) that I need to and am changing who I am and fixing what was broken inside of me that led to my terribly poor choices.

[Regretful one]

From a ws, I would tell my bs. One reason is for the sake of honesty- how can one build a good marriage on lies? The second, you can never trust that your ow/om will never spill the beans.

 

I agree with this point and is in large part why I confessed. Not so much because I was worried about the OW spilling the beans in the future but because I was/am very determined to rebuild my marriage on complete honesty.

 

I guess the irony is that while you are the one who hurt her, you have to be the one to comfort and heal her and its with you only that she will find comfort !

 

I think you are right... Although she still thanks me for giving her this time by separating and moving out so that she can deal with things. I suppose some heal differently. My wife wants me around for periods of time and then appreciates it when she has time to herself. Obviously that causes a little bit of insecurity inside me - I mean my wife tells me she appreciates the time she has without me. I have to fight against that insecurity concern and just know she needs to heal from this in the way that works for her.

 

*UPDATE*

Saturday was a good day - as mentioned she came to me at my apartment. Then we met for lunch after and then went to church together and then home after that. Made love and talked, cried etc.. etc..

 

Sunday was also decent. I went to church again on my own. Hung out with my older son watching football.. worked out etc.. all the while texting my wife. She invited me over for dinner and a movie with our daughter. Was a good evening. Unfortunately there was a setback. I have slept maybe 8 hours over the past 2 days and was exhausted. I also had a couple drinks with dinner. My wife decided she wanted to make love again and its embarrassing to admit but on a rare occasion Ive had ED. Its not common but has happened before. Well my wife doesn't seem to understand that its not a reflection on my attraction towards her and takes it personally. So as soon as that happened she was upset and suggested I leave. I have to be sympathetic to her wants especially right now so I reluctantly did. I texted her that I wish we could talk about these things as its an example of whats was/is missing in our marriage - the ability to be completely open and talk about things. The infidelity just further complicates things and limits us on being able to work on other issues that existed at the moment. The thing that sucks is that she felt as I didn't desire her which isn't true. And to me it feels like if I don't perform then Im worthless. So it was a setback. 2 steps forward 3 steps back on Sunday.

[mikeylo]

The reason you won't find support for yourself is that you had your pleasure at the cost of your wife. She has to suffer because you chose your happiness over hers or yours together. You betrayed her.

 

While you did what you did because of your issues, she is the one who loved( loves) you with full heart and has to bear the consequences of something she didn't do.

 

I would caution you falling into bad company again. You yourself need support. DONT start chatting to some new woman ! Your wife has transformed you.You owe her.

 

You can please her in other ways! She still loves you and wants to reconnect. Take it by horns and get her heart to where you want it to be. Work on your issues to build a secure future with her. You both need security. We all do.

 

Now you need to give her what she gave to you previously. Loyalty , honesty , love, etc etc. She might be thinking that all her effort to keep together was useless as you weren't in it.

 

Anyway , unfortunately, you have to suck up, be glad you got another chance ( most don't) and give her what she gave you. You know what she gave , that's why you want to be with her.If she isn't going to get it now, after all this , it will not end well , for you.

[Mr Blunt]

Thanks for the videos. Ive read that it is important to say I will never do this again but as the video points out if I didn't keep my vows before why would I now?... Good point. While I have said similar things to my wife I have also told her and shown her by my actions (counseling, mens group etc..) that I need to and am changing who I am and fixing what was broken inside of me that led to my terribly poor choices.

 

 

 

 

By Blunt

Your correct actions for years will win over a wife that still wants to reconcile. You will probably have radical ups and downs for the first year or two but genuine remorse with actions as proof will in in the end

[aileD]

I can relate to the ED part too, as that has happened to us in the past as well and it made me feel worthless, not good enough, that he was thinking of her, that I wasn't attractive, that he was wishing he was with her, she did it better, etc

 

Turns out he just had the wrong seat on his bicycle and it was pressing on a nerve...stopped cycling and now ok. Tmi lol

 

But your wife will struggle with this. You say say it wasn't due to lack of desire but to her your words are nothing right now. Just today I had anxiety because I sent H a message and it just said "sent"...not "delivered". Sounds stupid and simple but to me.....it was a trigger. It COULD mean his phone was off (in reality he was in his boss's office which doesn't have good service)..in thinking why is his phone off? We have the gps maybe he shut it off so he could go somewhere and not have it recorded. Maybe she called him and he had to wipe his phone. Maybe he left his phone at work and drove offf with her.

 

It was nothing like that and he even had boss verify with me (we are friends).

And it's happened before. I know his phone doesn't work in her office. I know he's at work. I know he has meetings. But I still triggered and freaked out.

 

It's early in R. The "why wasn't I good enough not to cheat on" mindset is strong.

[Regretful one]

The reason you won't find support for yourself is that you had your pleasure at the cost of your wife. She has to suffer because you chose your happiness over hers or yours together. You betrayed her.

 

I think you misunderstand what I mean by support. Im not looking for someone to support me by trying to make me feel better about what I did. I don't need that nor is that what I was saying I was looking for. By support I mean a guy who has been where I am at and worked through infidelity in his marriage. Yes I understand my wife has to suffer and I am fully aware that I betrayed her. By support I mean HELP. Help/support working on myself which is a big part of what I need to do and am doing. A friend to talk to would also be welcomed - Im not complaining or feeling sorry for myself here.. Just saying.

 

I would caution you falling into bad company again. You yourself need support. DONT start chatting to some new woman ! Your wife has transformed you.You owe her.

 

Ha.. Im confused, now here you are saying I need support. Im not "falling into bad company"? Im not sure what you mean. I go to church. I visit family. I spend time with my wife. I go to the gym. I work. I sit in my apartment. Im not doing anything with any bad company. Ive actually never been one to "go out with the boys" or be around people who were considered "bad company". I haven't started nor will I be chatting with any women. The closest thing I have done to that is here when a female BS or WS responds to my post. And my wife is aware Im posting on this forum. She may be reading my thread - I have no idea. She checks my internet history every time we are together so she is well aware.

 

 

 

I can relate to the ED part too, as that has happened to us in the past as well and it made me feel worthless, not good enough, that he was thinking of her, that I wasn't attractive, that he was wishing he was with her, she did it better, etc

 

Turns out he just had the wrong seat on his bicycle and it was pressing on a nerve...stopped cycling and now ok. Tmi lol But your wife will struggle with this. You say say it wasn't due to lack of desire but to her your words are nothing right now.

 

Ugh.. I hate that... Its a mental thing for me and now I know it will be on my mind too for the next time. Its not common but talk about terrible timing. And I do understand her side of the issue feeling insecure as you point out here. Its one of those things that will make us both insecure unless we talk about it and also as you point out my words don't mean a whole lot right now.

 

Just today I had anxiety because I sent H a message and it just said "sent"...not "delivered". Sounds stupid and simple but to me.....it was a trigger. It COULD mean his phone was off (in reality he was in his boss's office which doesn't have good service)..in thinking why is his phone off? We have the gps maybe he shut it off so he could go somewhere and not have it recorded. Maybe she called him and he had to wipe his phone. Maybe he left his phone at work and drove offf with her.

 

It was nothing like that and he even had boss verify with me (we are friends).

And it's happened before. I know his phone doesn't work in her office. I know he's at work. I know he has meetings. But I still triggered and freaked out.

 

I can understand your worry and Im sure your H does too. Ive offered a GPS thing or some sort of computer monitoring device and so far she has been reluctant to say she wants it. She says "I don't want to have to check on you and don't feel like I should have to..." I just tell her Im trying to be transparent. Whenever we are together I leave my phone for her to look at and she always does. So Im not sure, maybe I should just set up the GPS thing for her even though she isn't asking for it.

 

It's early in R. The "why wasn't I good enough not to cheat on" mindset is strong.

 

Yes it is still early I have to remind myself of that daily. Thanks for the feedback.

[aileD]

I recommend the life 360 app for your phones.

 

You can set "places". My whole family has it on our phones. I can set alerts for when people leave and arrive places.

 

So I get an alert when my son leaves the middle school. When my H arrives at work, etc.

 

I can look at it or not, can go back and see history. Pretty good app

[mikeylo]

What I meant was that in your desire to make things better , be careful who you confide in. Not everyone has your best interests in mind even though they mind sound as one. Makes sense ? Apart from counsellor and your wife , anonymous boards are your best bet at the moment.

 

As for her saying , she doesn't want to check on you , she is actually giving you all the freedom to do what you want. That is where your trustworthiness comes. She is giving you the same freedom that you had before that you misused.

 

For ED, lift weights, go to gym. See a doctor.

[wmacbride]

Rebuilding trust takes a long time,and it comes from small acts that show her you can be honest. Showing her little acts of kindness each day can also be important. No grand gestures, just little things that show her you care and are thinking of her.

 

Also,if you are looking for in person support, you might be able to find one through the Meetup site.

 

Surviving infidelity Meetups - Meetup

[Regretful one]

I recommend the life 360 app for your phones.....Pretty good app

 

I mentioned this to her yesterday and told her if at any time she would like me to get this on my phone Id be happy to. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

What I meant was that in your desire to make things better , be careful who you confide in. Not everyone has your best interests in mind even though they mind sound as one. Makes sense ? Apart from counsellor and your wife , anonymous boards are your best bet at the moment.

 

Ok thank you for clarifying. Other than my Christian Men's group and a couple pastors (and here/counseling etc.) I haven't really talked to anyone else about what is going on.

 

For ED, lift weights, go to gym. See a doctor.

 

Yeah not bad advice except that I lift and workout 5-6 days a week and have for the past 6 years. Run 10k races, half marathons a few times a year etc.. Im actually quite fit - eat healthy, non smoker etc.. etc... Have been to the urologist a few times in the past 6 months for something unrelated. His answer was that guys over 40 on occasion will have it from time to time. Fortunately it wasn't an issue this morning. My wife was up early around 4:30 and feeling really down and alone (we had to put our dog to sleep) and asked if I would mind coming over for a few hours. Obviously I told her Im always there for her in any way she needs. So we were able to put the other night behind us thankfully.

 

 

Rebuilding trust takes a long time,and it comes from small acts that show her you can be honest. Showing her little acts of kindness each day can also be important. No grand gestures, just little things that show her you care and are thinking of her.

 

Yes and I am doing that daily. I agree with you in that over time those small acts can soften her heart. She has told me several times recently that she really appreciates how good I have been during the separation. I put no pressure on her to let me move back in and always tell her that my focus is on her needs - along with apologizing for doing this to her. She now even apologizes after having some anger come out and saying something mean. I respond with telling her she doesn't need to apologize and that I understand where it is coming from.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Regretful one

[mikeylo]

I guess, you just need to keep moving forward but not forget what has happened. You both have to work hard, her learning to trust you again and you earning it.

 

If you have women clients, be very professional. Keep it straight up, no private talk, nothing beyond work. If you have been overly ' friendly', invading personal space , make an overnight change and become professional right away. They might question but will get used to to the new you/ boundary. Since you started it, you have to be the one to pull back. They will notice and you should be prepared to lose a customer or two. If they are being overtly with you ,of course their own morals are low. Your wife has good morals , those women have low. Take your pick.

 

Focus on making her fall in love with you again. Of course it's stained but you've got no choice.

[Lion Heart]

RO

 

As you may remember I'm a BW twice over..it appears your sincerity is what makes me respond to your thread (but I've been fooled before! Lol).

 

As you can imagine I feel far more for your BW but I have read your concerns and will respond to those that I remember further down. These points are IME only. I hope they help.

 

Firstly your BW:

* she most DEFINITELY needs time out from having to face you. It was THE MOST painful thing to do for me after D Day ie face both the man I'd loved for years AND the monster he was to me. The monster I despised vehemently. It won over in the end but he's not necessarily you.

* she needs this time out to PROCESS her thoughts. A trauma response is what some people experience. I did and it became PTSD. I forgot the knowledge my degrees had given me and had to RELEARN it. I was horrified.

I still can't remember some words! But at first I couldn't speak a coherent sentence. This lasted for 6 months. UNLESS HE WASN'T IN MY COMPANY.

* I needed to feel the security within myself (without him anywhere near me) to stabilize myself. I felt so completely co-dependant. But the time alone made me realize my INDEPENDENCE and more.

The peace I felt with God only with him vacant from my life.

* I felt so completely unloved by WH A that I triggered as your BW did if things didn't work in the bedroom. His honesty would've helped. Yours should.

* see how BW feel here? If your BW isn't expressing herself then she could be holding back. Introspection now may help you find out why. Is BW THAT used to handling these intimate issues in her own? I was.

 

For you:

* install the gps described on the family's phones. BW may feel as I did. It was an invasion of WH privacy. Like all of that password stuff. I didn't feel any better for it. Nothing made me feel better. Seeing it on my phone was a reminder of his infidelity and lack of love for me. But it may be different for her.

* see a Dr immediately about your ED. Tell BW you will do all you can. Those tablets work wonders and you need them now. Limit alcohol to nothing if need be. This is VERY IMPORTANT. You've been giving it away for years to OW. Ofcourse it makes no sense to BW now that there's this issue. Limit handling yourself too.

I'm glad we'll never meet lol! The beauty of forums is that you can give and get amazingly honest feedback!

* I doubt you realized how much you depended on your wife. Express yourself as much as possible to her.

 

I think you'll find fewer WH here than WWs.

And fewer WSs than BSs in reconciliation.

 

You are not alone but you feel more alone atm.

RO BE PROUD of yourself for SEEKING help to save your M.

I'm surprised to see a remorseful serial cheating husband here but this shows just how DETERMINED you are to CHANGE.

 

I hope you can. Or indeed have.

 

How can ensure a promise to YOURSELF that you will never betray your BW again?

 

Your habits are long and reliable. It'd be a HARD SLOG for you to fight them.

 

MY $60 million question is this.....because I'm intrigued and perplexed tbh but the answer may help you prepare for same questions if they haven't arisen before now....as a person who believes in God, as you say, how could you do all these actions of betrayal KNOWING God was watching every single thought let alone action?

 

I don't mean to grill you at all. I'm always so surprised when cheating people say they're Christians. Depends on the practises of the specific strain of Christianity I've found IME.

 

Or do you feel that your faith is more religious than a relationship with your higher power?

 

I hope you can answer this because I'm hoping the answers will really help you delve deeper into your beliefs. Find your foundation then build on it.

 

It's not until a person hits rock bottom sometimes that they BEGIN to realize the gravity of their actions.

 

BTW my friend was a serial cheating H to his W for years.

When she ousted him he sought counselling and is still receiving it after 6 years. At the 5y point he could articulate what was missing inside himself to cheat.

At 6y he still hasn't put it all together

Just sayin'.

 

Many blessings for you and your family

Lion Heart

[Lion Heart]

BTW my friend's BW divorced him recently. There was no reconciliation effort on her behalf at all. She couldn't.

 

LH

[Regretful one]

RO

 

As you may remember I'm a BW twice over..it appears your sincerity is what makes me respond to your thread (but I've been fooled before! Lol).

 

LH thank you for again posting in my thread. I value your input. After reading your comments to me and comments in other threads I understand you to be skeptical of any WS and not trusting of anyones motives if they have betrayed their spouse. Obviously that is a direct result of being a BW twice over. The reason I appreciate your input is because I figure you (along with a few others around) tell it like it is. No sugar coating and no holding back. I do admit that sometimes I feel like "I didn't betray this person why are they coming down so hard on me" but thats what I need. It helps me see clearly. The reading, the watching you tube videos, the posting here, and of course the interaction with my wife has really helped me fully understand the significance of what I did and what implications stem from it. That is not to say I thought it was "no big deal"... certainly not.

 

Firstly your BW:

* she most DEFINITELY needs time out from having to face you. It was THE MOST painful thing to do for me after D Day ie face both the man I'd loved for years AND the monster he was to me. The monster I despised vehemently. It won over in the end but he's not necessarily you.

 

Yes this is true for my wife. She will often thank me for giving her this time. She says that often face to face gives her anxiety right now. Its less and less as time goes by thankfully. Over the past week she has really started to talk a lot about a future us and is always sure to say "but that doesn't mean you can move back in yet"... I tell her often that I want to give her what SHE needs. If that is me not living at home than so be it. She is very thankful every time when i say this. She mentioned maybe after 2 or 3 months I could move back home. I just said lets wait and see and that she would know when the time was right.

 

* she needs this time out to PROCESS her thoughts. A trauma response is what some people experience. I did and it became PTSD. I forgot the knowledge my degrees had given me and had to RELEARN it. I was horrified.

 

Yep.. very much like a trauma experience. All the stages.

 

I still can't remember some words! But at first I couldn't speak a coherent sentence. This lasted for 6 months. UNLESS HE WASN'T IN MY COMPANY.

 

Early on (yes I realize we are still early on) she had great difficulty talking to me in person and saying what she really felt. She was so used to just keeping things status quo. Not rocking the boat that she stifled her voice and opinions. To a great extent this was a major thing I was missing in our marriage. It resulted in lack of connection with my wife which was a major thing I was seeking with the affair. Anyway, she finally found her voice on the day she told me I needed to move out. It was really good for her and me but it didn't stop me from whining about it. Thankfully she didn't back down at all. Now we text often and when we text she has lots of back bone. She lets me have it. She is doing it more and more face to face. Just this morning she told me she wants to talk face to face today after our therapy session. She has questions she wants me to answer in person rather than via text. That makes me a little uneasy but then thats to be expected. Difficult topic but Ive read that details are not always helpful for the betrayed. Obviously they need the information and need to have full disclosure - I get that. But I worry about x rated details just hurting my wife and serving not purpose. Creating more triggers needlessly. I voiced this concern to my wife and she says her imagination is worse. I get that too. My plan is that if she asks a very graphic question x rated question I will tell her I will answer it but Id prefer to talk to our counselor first about those types of questions. Think that is a good approach?

 

The other issue I have is that Ive already forgotten a lot about my affair. Ive forgotten a lot about the female email pals. My wife asks me specific questions I honestly just don't remember. My wife I think assumes Im just withholding information. Today she texted me and asked me how long the affair lasted and I just quickly answered 6 weeks since that for some reason is what I had in my mind. But she quickly responded that it was more than 6 weeks. She knows the week it started (she was out of town and I told her this) and she knows the week it ended (the same week I confessed). That time line adds up to more than 6 weeks. I tried to explain to her that I didn't have a calendar out. My point is I am making a conscious effort to forget everything about those women. I do NOT sit around and think of them or my affair during the day. I do not re-live it. I have already forgotten things that I told my wife during my confession. So now I worry that she will ask me something and Ill make a mistake and upset her.

 

 

* I needed to feel the security within myself (without him anywhere near me) to stabilize myself. I felt so completely co-dependant. But the time alone made me realize my INDEPENDENCE and more.

 

That sounds like my wife with one exception. She is realizing how much she misses me. She is enjoying her independence but the house is quiet. She says she misses me holding her. She wants to get past this so we can have a new marriage. She has said several times that our old marriage is over. She wants nothing to do with the guy she used to be married to and wants a new marriage to a new better me.

 

* see how BW feel here? If your BW isn't expressing herself then she could be holding back. Introspection now may help you find out why. Is BW THAT used to handling these intimate issues in her own? I was.

 

She was doing this but is expressing herself a lot more now. Especially via text. Sometimes it is rough and will say really hard things to hear but will follow it up with "but I don't want a divorce" or "But I think we can work through this"...

 

For you:

* install the gps described on the family's phones. BW may feel as I did. It was an invasion of WH privacy. Like all of that password stuff. I didn't feel any better for it. Nothing made me feel better. Seeing it on my phone was a reminder of his infidelity and lack of love for me. But it may be different for her.

 

Yesterday I sent her information on the GPS thing and it set her off. She went on a rant about how I was a lying cheating sneaking around SOB and that if I wanted to do it again that a GPS or internet nanny wouldn't stop me. I responded that I was just trying to help and she told me to F off. So I dropped it and apologized.

 

* see a Dr immediately about your ED. Tell BW you will do all you can. Those tablets work wonders and you need them now. Limit alcohol to nothing if need be. This is VERY IMPORTANT. You've been giving it away for years to OW. Ofcourse it makes no sense to BW now that there's this issue. Limit handling yourself too.

I'm glad we'll never meet lol! The beauty of forums is that you can give and get amazingly honest feedback!

 

Ha.. I should have never mentioned the ED. I have seen a doc. Not for that specifically but was told its very common for guys over 40 (I'm in my early 40s). Its not a common thing. It happened before and during my affair on rare occasions. For me it seems to be very lack of sleep + alcohol related. Ive not yet ever tried the blue pills. If need be some day I would but the doctor said that Im not at that point. Just to be clear my affair wasn't years. There was a one night thing about 4 years ago and then a 7 or 8 week (I still need to get a calendar out) affair where we met about 6 or 7 times. There has been no self handling. Again I should not have mentioned it here lol.

 

Yes thankfully this is an anonymous forum...

 

* I doubt you realized how much you depended on your wife. Express yourself as much as possible to her.

 

Oh I know I depended on her! And I do realize it. I actually did a lot of things around the house so its not those types of things I took for granted. It was her friendship that I took the most for granted. I miss that more than anything. She was my go to for anything and I really leaned on her for support. Now I don't have that like before and it sucks.

 

I think you'll find fewer WH here than WWs.

And fewer WSs than BSs in reconciliation.

 

You are not alone but you feel more alone atm.

RO BE PROUD of yourself for SEEKING help to save your M.

I'm surprised to see a remorseful serial cheating husband here but this shows just how DETERMINED you are to CHANGE.

 

Yes no question Im among the minority here. My personality is such that I am interested in what others think. Its in some ways what got me into trouble. Im interested in people and people's opinion.

 

 

How can ensure a promise to YOURSELF that you will never betray your BW again?

 

Your habits are long and reliable. It'd be a HARD SLOG for you to fight them.

 

Very good question. Its also a question that my wife has asked me. How can she know I would never do this again. I don't know that I have a great answer for you or her. I think the best answer I can give is by saying I recognize I have a problem and I understand I haven't had success resisting temptation in the past. I can easily promise myself and my wife that I don't want to ever betray her again. I wouldn't have confessed if it was something I wanted to keep doing or to do again. I must develop new habits and find ways to resist temptation as they come. Being in an apartment on my own has been a test of sorts for myself. I welcomed that part of it - I wanted to test myself. Im happy to report that Ive been "clean" since my confession. Clean meaning no porn (not that I really had a porn issue though), no reading craigslist personal ads, no relapses of any kind. Now I understand I'm 2 months past D-day and working hard to save my marriage. Perhaps its easy to resist temptation right now... I would counter that by also saying Im as alone right now as Ive ever been. Wouldn't now be the time when a junkie would be most likely to fall off the wagon? Hmm food for thought. In any event I feel a big change within myself. Ok you asked the question... Two things caused this change for me.

 

1) Individual counseling. I have never had counseling in the past. This counseling which took place before I ever confessed opened my eyes to the fact that my mother did not love me as she should have. The abuse I suffered through as a kid was not my fault and I didn't deserve that ****. The neglect and abuse created a very big insecurity within myself and what I looked for in an affair was a very basic need that everyone has. I just went about satisfying that need in a terrible way. After a couple months of counseling I was able to separate my behavior from who I am as a person. I understood that I was not evil I just made bad choices. Might sound simplistic but it was revolutionary for me.

 

2) Being forgiven by God. A few days after confessing I was in a bad place. Even though the weight of lies to my wife had been lifted it was still very dark for me. I had a trip planned which required a 9 hour drive alone. During that drive I was forgiven. I know some will roll their eyes and thats ok. But I spent hours praying and asking Him to forgive me for the long list of things I had done. About 7 hours into that drive I had a peace that I haven't known before. At a time when my marriage was quickly headed towards divorce and so many things seemed bleak I felt peace.

 

The result of those two things (along with a lot of self reflection, reading, and "heavy lifting of self work) have changed me. I can't answer any better than that.

 

MY $60 million question is this.....because I'm intrigued and perplexed tbh but the answer may help you prepare for same questions if they haven't arisen before now....as a person who believes in God, as you say, how could you do all these actions of betrayal KNOWING God was watching every single thought let alone action?

 

I don't mean to grill you at all. I'm always so surprised when cheating people say they're Christians. Depends on the practises of the specific strain of Christianity I've found IME.

 

Or do you feel that your faith is more religious than a relationship with your higher power?

 

I hope you can answer this because I'm hoping the answers will really help you delve deeper into your beliefs. Find your foundation then build on it.

 

Another excellent question. Im glad you asked. It gives me opportunity to glorify my God and further humble myself.

 

The simple answer is I once was lost but now Im found.

 

The complex answer is that it is a very slow fade. I didn't set out one day to betray my wife, ruin my life and end up in hell by committing a mortal sin. Over time Satan and I chipped away at things. He fed my insecurities and helped them grow. I justified things and fooled myself. I lied to no one more than I lied to myself in all of this. Bottom line I loved myself (in a bad way) more than I loved my God and more than I loved my wife. It was all about selfishness. Had I simply spent more time asking God to help me. Had I simply gone to my wife and told her that my insecurities were really bothering me a different path would have been taken.. Instead Satan old me I deserved a secret friend just to talk to. Whats the harm in that he told me. You can watch a tiny bit of porn once in a while, whats the harm in that.. Have a few more drinks and talk to this woman hitting on you in the bar whats the harm in that. Then a line is crossed and satan has a hold. Now he uses that and has his hooks set. I tell my wife the only way out of all of this for me was to confess to her. I realize my story and my reliance on God now has a hypocrisy sound to it. But there are no perfect sinless people. In Gods eyes a sin is a sin. If a man even looks at a woman in a lustful way he has committed adultery. I could never live to such high standards and wont. I will fail. But because I can be forgiven I can overcome. I once was lost but now am found. Through Gods grace I am learning that because of my poor choices I will suffer consequences. But he will not give up on me.

 

No, my faith is not a religious thing at all... purely relationship. That 9 hour drive in the car exemplifies to me just how much. I go to church (two times a week at the moment) but I don't consider myself necessarily religious actually.

 

Its a difficult thing to answer. I hope my answer didn't just sound like a lot of fluff to you. I gave it my best attempt to answer honestly.

 

 

It's not until a person hits rock bottom sometimes that they BEGIN to realize the gravity of their actions.

 

 

Many blessings for you and your family

Lion Heart

 

Sometimes we do not get to the point of Jesus is all we need until we understand that He is all we have.

 

I wish you blessings as well LH.

[mikeylo]

She was so used to just keeping things status quo. Not rocking the boat that she stifled her voice and opinions. To a great extent this was a major thing I was missing in our marriage. It resulted in lack of connection with my wife which was a major thing I was seeking with the affair. Anyway, she finally found her voice

 

I beg to differ.

 

You were chatting other women and getting your emotional needs met with other women. Your wife tried to connect with you but didn't get anything back from you , so she gave up and stopped complaining but didn't go and find other men. When you couldn't have your cake and eat it too ( that is , have other women AND your wife at your disposal ) then and only then you realized or your wife's withdrawal from you raised questions.

 

You can read your previous posts to verify.

 

What is it ? Your mother or your wife ? You are blaming both of them for your affairs ! Your wife didn't get her emotional needs met from you. What did she do ? Affairs? No. She STFU and lived with herself. By doing so , she has become self reliant and doesn't need you anymore emotionally. You taught her to not depend on you for her emotional needs.

 

What is she going to get out of this marriage? Probably nothing.

 

Stop blaming wife / mother for your affairs ! I guess you are good with words! The proof is having so many other women you are / were able to chat up.

Edited October 19, 2016 by mikeylo

[aileD]

I didn't hear him blaming his choice to have affair on anyone else but himself. He has simply learned through counseling and introspection the subconscious reasons inside himself that allowed him to make this choice.

 

I'm sorry the app suggestion made your wife upset. For me....it was a relief and a signal to me he was willing to be completely open. All BS are not the same I guess.

 

One thing I always said to my husband is "the Devil doesn't come dressed in pointy horns and a cape, he comes as all you've ever wished for" (a Pinterest quote,not my quote).

 

If you think about it it's true. Even if you don't subscribe to faith. Most people in affairs see their AP as "perfect" and they fulfill all they thought they were missing in their marriage. When in reality, the negatives are overlooked.

 

She has questions she wants me to answer in person rather than via text. That makes me a little uneasy but then thats to be expected. Difficult topic but Ive read that details are not always helpful for the betrayed. Obviously they need the information and need to have full disclosure - I get that. But I worry about x rated details just hurting my wife and serving not purpose. Creating more triggers needlessly. I voiced this concern to my wife and she says her imagination is worse. I get that too. My plan is that if she asks a very graphic question x rated question I will tell her I will answer it but Id prefer to talk to our counselor first about those types of questions. Think that is a good approach?

 

Be honest. No matter how bad, trust me her imagination is worse. Some women need the details to be able to move on. It's difficult. i hope it goes well for you

[Regretful one]

I beg to differ.

 

 

What is it ? Your mother or your wife ? You are blaming both of them for your affairs ! .

 

I was trying to answer the question posed. Im not blaming anyone for my affairs but myself. If you have red my many posts saying so you would know this. I am 100% to blame and I own that.

[Regretful one]

I didn't hear him blaming his choice to have affair on anyone else but himself. He has simply learned through counseling and introspection the subconscious reasons inside himself that allowed him to make this choice.

 

Thank you! I own this. I have told my wife several times (including today when she asked what she could have done to prevent this) that it had nothing to do with her or her love (or lack of) for me. It was a 100% selfish act and nothing she did or didn't do would justify what I did.

 

I'm sorry the app suggestion made your wife upset. For me....it was a relief and a signal to me he was willing to be completely open. All BS are not the same I guess.

 

No, don't be sorry. IT was a good suggestion. My wife will find many things to go off on (and rightfully so). I am willing to bet that she will eventually ask me about the GPS app and tell me to get it. lol.

 

One thing I always said to my husband is "the Devil doesn't come dressed in pointy horns and a cape, he comes as all you've ever wished for" (a Pinterest quote,not my quote).

 

If you think about it it's true. Even if you don't subscribe to faith. Most people in affairs see their AP as "perfect" and they fulfill all they thought they were missing in their marriage. When in reality, the negatives are overlooked.

 

In my case the AP was an escape. You are right there is no issues of life to deal with. No discussions about finances. No discussions about issues with the kids.. etc. etc.. its all about an ego boost. A selfish escape.

 

Be honest. No matter how bad, trust me her imagination is worse. Some women need the details to be able to move on. It's difficult. i hope it goes well for you

 

Turns out what she wanted to know wasn't the sexual details I had assumed she wanted.. What she wanted to know is where my mind was and when I started to take those small steps towards what ended up being an affair. We talked for 2 hours face to face about this. As hard as it was to answer some of her questions she used her voice. She was not emotional and she asked very specific questions. I answered openly and honestly and felt like my answer wouldn't be a deal breaker which was very good. Then we went together to our counseling session which was a joke. We spent 75% of the session talking about the birth of our first born son. lol. We left the session laughing our arses off say wtf was that. Maybe our counselor is just trying to get us to team up I don't know but it worked. We ended up laughing so hard we cried. First time in months and first time since D day we laughed like that by making fun of our counselor.

 

After that we went back to my apartment. Just the two of us. We made love again and talked and then went to dinner. I love this woman so damn much. She has told me (and our counselor) that she no longer considers divorce as an option and wants to pursue reconciliation. She isn't ready for me to move back home and I'm not pressuring her for that at all. Im just ecstatic that she openly tells me she wants to be married to me. Im glad that we are building a foundation of open honesty now. I know I don't deserve this opportunity but Im thankful for it.

 

Now she is questioning our counseling. We feel like we are doing more on our own than we d0 with her. Perhaps our counselor is smarter than we realize and her thoughts and assignments are working in some sort of weird psychological way I don't know. She is now open to doing some sort of weekend get away for intense infidelity counseling. The one we are looking at is the EMS weekend put on by affairrecovery.com its pricy but right now I don't care about costs. I think it could help us to get actual infidelity counsel by counselors who specialize in infidelity.

[aileD]

If you do it EMS please let me know how it is ! We want to do it too but it's just not in our price range at all... I'm out of work right now too.

 

You can do the online boot camp too for free.

 

I have to say the affair recovery website and YouTube has been THE one resource that has truly helped us. They know, they've been there. They even say that conventional counseling only works to a point if they do not specialize in infidelity and all it's intricacies. We so enjoy their topics and perspectives

 

I'm glad things are going well and divorce is off the table! your story gives hope to so many.

[Lion Heart]

RO I smiled at laughed with you at your last post. I'm very happy for you both! Ofcourse!

 

SACK YOUR MC! LOL.

You need a different one as we said a while back? (Sorry if I'm confusing things. I'm trying to hold a few points in this head of mine! Lol).

 

We can ALL discuss your MC later ROFL.

 

Anyway thankyou for responding in #119. I type from my phone so won't be fancy.

 

Also sorry for the gps suggestion. Blame us lol.

 

I'm just not attempting at all to bash you. I'm really at peace by the time I respond lol. Not at the time of reading tbh. It is confronting but this is not about me. I'm SO FREAKING HAPPY I'm divorcing! It can't come fast enough! So please know my intention is pure and my words are in the hope to prepare you. Take what you will. Leave what doesn't sit right but DO USE binocular vision now. TWO people. Not a periscope as in your A time.

 

Please ALWAYS ANSWER FRANKLY and honestly ANY QUESTIONS AT ALL your BW has. Don't ask the MC first.

Have COURAGE. BE BRAVE.

 

I was a BW that HAD to have all thr details of everything.

 

Yes it hurt ALOT but I couldn't sleep either way. I'd rather be slapped in the face with the truth than kissed with a lie is what is written here.

Though I believe you can't remember SOME things. You were afraid to tell your BW anything she asked?

 

REVERSE that thought immediately.

 

It's through the TRUTH that you will both be able to get it all out NOW and not have ugly questions in years to come that you wouldn't answer honestly before. Though there's never any guarantees questions won't come thick and fast after your BW sees or hears something.

 

Ok the devil I get it. Not lol. But you are ofcourse allowed your way of believing how YOU THOUGHT then CREATED and then ACTED. Buddy that's all on you.

 

There are things extremely similar to you and I in more ways than you know. Childhood - same. Yes same mother / child experience.

 

But there's no way on earth that I would ever blame my mother nor childhood experiences on ACTIONS I CONSCIOUSLY CHOSE to do in my 20s, 30s etcetera.

 

In fact I looked FORWARD to turning 18yo and DEFINITIVELY stood up to myself and said LEAVE that behind and take full responsibility from now on...or similar lol.

 

I understand how childhood may mold a person but I also took those experiences and used them as STRENGTHS. Converting them. As you can do too.

 

I'm so happy for your R. Know this.

 

Stand up and BE THE MAN you want to be now. You haven't been a husband to be proud of.

Be him now.

 

My foreboding thoughts are these:

* by saying the As were all on you it's only THEN YOU ARE taking full responsibility.

* I hope you're not playing the pity card to anybody about your childhood. It happened yes. You need to nurture the hurt little boy inside. Absolutely! YOU need to be the person who is proud of HIM and you right now. Facing up is fantastic.

* sorry I completely disagree with your summation of the difficulty of your situation being alone as opposed to being BACK in the home and M. THAT'S WHERE and when all those thoughts and behaviours existed in your HOME and in that M. It's then IMHO that you'll find more wandering thoughts going on because it's that SAFETY net you were spring boarding from. The analogy of drug addict...You'll be back in the drug den. Now is the FRESHNESS of second chances and hope. M is back to monotony lol and other "stuff".

Please guard your thoughts there.

* quitting porn and online voyeurism cold turkey is great but WHAT will you be REPLACING these behaviours with?

If there is a void left, then what will give you the same depths of satiation? Because lol......

* I kind of understand the x rated excitement "need" and if that was satisfied ONLY OUTSIDE your M then please, you need to find SOME way to have this happening INSIDE your M with your WIFE. My husband really had the whole "Madonna / whore" complex issue going on with me.

The OWs were the w words (which is a very disgusting attitude IMHO) so he USED them for all that "dirty stuff". There was also ALOT of excitement in the CHASE and LAND (amygdala lol) thing operating in him. He had GIGS which is funny because he hates his life now. Great! Lol.

But he relegated me to the Madonna side yuck! He was SO DROLL with me it was horribly boring.

ExWH just COULDN'T reconcile the two concepts in his mind into ONE woman. In fact he called me disgusting for suggesting we do something he did with an OW.

 

Anyway he's dust lol.

 

I just hope that your R effort doesn't land you both back in the same field.

Sure your BW wants a FAR BETTER M..BUT what does that LOOK like for BOTH of you???

Your list.

Her list.

Delete Craigslist lol. Sorry just had to do it!

 

And now to the ED....just joking. I'd have those pills anyway because you NEVER KNOW!

 

In summary, it may NOT have been all about the SEX in your As but pull the whole thing apart until you DO KNOW exactly what the huge motivations were and do not leave those needs nor wants vacant.

 

I think you guys CAN have "it all" but what is ALL to you BOTH.

ExWH list was bl**dy ridiculous lol. You don't want to know lol.

 

It's not a time for only BW to make blanket demands although I would CERTAINLY give her everything she needs to feel safe, secure and one day, blissfully happy she R with you.

 

It's a time to reassess the BALANCE OF POWER in the relationship. She may always have the power in many ways now BUT you cannot feel like a the little boy vying for mummy's love ANYMORE.

 

You will NEED to be respected. How can you get this now...ask your new MC lol.

You will NEED to feel appreciated. Same...

You will need to feel valued...

 

After all the disclosures of exWH and his reluctance of ANY psychological support, his childhood experiences and trauma etcetera and his overblown entitlement issues etcetera lol I would always be left filling an empty washtub as fast as I could but it would never be enough. The plug was left out.

 

I simply wanted a MAN who matched me.

I'm so happy I have him now in my bf.

 

Please don't feel sorry for me! God must've had his hand in ALL of this. I'm so happy!

 

BTW my parents were Missionaries and my wayward father cheated on my mother in the worst possible scenario I can imagine. ExWH family think themselves VERY Christian indeed EX wayward father in law is a filthy perverted serial cheater. Unrepentant.

 

Not like you RO! I'm being sincere there.

 

And that family were the most evil people I've ever encountered and I have alot of experience with evil.

Thank God.

 

If I've sounded harsh please don't take it that way.

My healings been AWESOME but I realize that I have A LONG way to go yet.

 

Btw did I mention that I'm so happy for you IF YOU'RE SINCERE lol.

 

:-))

Lion Heart