Praying for reconciliation

[Lion Heart]

* that's the term for BSs wanting sex in huge amounts after D Day.

 

It took my morning walk to clear my mind lol.

 

LH

[mikeylo]

. hit the nail on the head when you were saying your BW wasn't expressing herself etc.

 

BW doesn't NEED you. She's deciding if she WANTS YOU

 

It's very sad but so true. She has learned ( or he has taught her ) to not depend on him for her emotional needs.

 

While he was getting his appreciation , admiration, approval, validation , from other women , he was doing the same for them. Those women were getting the same appreciation, compliments from him.

 

The big question : Who was doing these things for his wife ?

 

While he was laughing with other women , his wife was left empty. He still wants her. Why ? Because She still makes him feel wanted. Has HE made HER wanted and desired by him? She has a lot to offer to him otherwise he would be gone. She doesn't seem desperate for him because he didn't give her anything that she would miss.

 

OP, your wife is still closed and it seems she is not finding any reason to open up. You are again making it about yourself by trying to make yourself desirable by her. How about making her feel wanted, desired ? How about doing the things that you did with other women, doing with her ? Those cheap women didn't deserve it.Did they ? You and them just used each other.

 

Coming clean, confessing is freeing for YOU but it doesn't change anything for her. She is still on her own, so to speak. By forgiving you, she has chosen to live with peace within herself . She did her part Again.

 

I'm a 54 year old married man. Married for half my life. It's not easy. We had our own fights, disagreements. My wife has now got wrinkles , gained weight and old age health issues are rearing ugly head. Does it mean I should ogle or give compliments , chat up , other women who are same age as her but slimmer, Botox faced, boob jobs , starving or popping pills to stay trim and chasing taken men who are as willing ( as you )?

 

Make her wanted. As long as other women are around or creep up, she is thrown off the bus, by you. You will feel ugly when you feel not wanted by her.

Edited October 29, 2016 by mikeylo

[Regretful one]

Thanks for your comments. I won’t respond to everything but will try to with some of it below.

 

But the ONE story to fully attend to will be your BWs.

She appears NOT to be able to fully articulate her pain.

These WILD feelings of confusion are there constantly.

The "triggers" are indescribable.

 

Yes I think she does have trouble dealing with her pain. She is still traumatized. It is a slow process for sure. Brings new meaning to one day at a time.

 

There's so much to be gained for your BW to share her story. Gain support. Do what SHE needs to get her words around her pain. I find being able to articulate it all makes it easier to FOCUS one's healing / research in those areas. The healing may be faster. I believe in my case it has been.

 

Well she has told several people. She is a very well liked person and has many friends. I know she regrets telling some people as now especially at her work its a constant topic. People like to gossip as well. But yes she has several people she has told. I think the EMS weekend retreat will be even better as there will be other BS there dealing with what she is and from many things Ive read there is some healing that can take place when you are able to be around others dealing with the same thing. I also read that it helps the betrayed see other unfaithful spouses and how they are working (or not) at doing their part of their own recovery and that it helps see their own unfaithful spouse in a new light.

 

RO obviously you have absolutely decided to get off that Merry-go-round. Has your BW?

She may still be swirling crazily in her mind. I was at 9 weeks post D Day! I ask this because she once said she'd wished you'd never told her?

 

I don’t think my wife is on the denial merry-go-round. She isn’t in denial she just hates the reality of what I’ve done. She only wished I hadn’t told her as she would then not be dealing with this great amount of pain and understandably so.

 

Maybe you had further to come but imo you may surpass her in development. That's all good too but be aware of this BALANCE out of kilter in a different way.

 

I believe that I am in a better mental state right now than she is. That case is a complete 180 from how it was prior to D-Day. I was in such a bad place and she was in a good place. Now after I have worked through much of my crap in IC and continue to do so I am so much better off and healthy. Unfortunately she is now in that a dark place grasping for reasons to be happy again. Some days are better than others. I help her as much as I can and as much as she will let me. It is sometimes so difficult to stay optimistic or hopeful. I sometimes wonder if I will ever have my wife back that once liked me. We watched a family home video recently and one of the first things I noticed was how we joked around and talked to each other in a nice way. I miss that - it is difficult when the person you love just seems to loath you most of the time. Now before everyone jumps down my throat - I KNOW I brought it all on myself by making the choices I made.

 

OP outside these programs don't understand the process. You must do as you feel in how much you expose to OP. Anywhere.

The full and complete transparency IS between you and God. Indeed as you say it is SUCH A WONDERFUL LIFE living in the truth every day. I WISH ALL PEOPLE could know this freedom. It's beautiful.

 

I agree. I don’t think most people know what that process is all about. Concepts which are worked on I think can seem backwards or counterintuitive to someone unless they take the time to fully read and understand the concept and why it works and what the goal is.

 

It hit the nail on the head when you were saying your BW wasn't expressing herself etc.

 

Looking at the Cycle of Violence will have you see why.

She's backed herself into a corner. Many women cower.

I didn't but I still WAS BACKED into that corner.

 

There's no other place for some women to go (they think) but INTO THEMSELVES.

They learn to be emotionally independent of you.

Independent in every way. (Oh yes I can hear you arguing the point and DO but everything you've done and the situation now makes this clear to me).

 

I don’t think she cowered. I still think of her as a strong woman. There were several things that she would speak up about and fight me on. It was the small stuff.. the more general stuff that she wold just not voice her opinion on. I would state my opinion and she would just go along with it. In my mind we had a discussion and she agreed with me. In her mind she figured she would not hassle with it or make an effort because I could sometimes be an ass I suppose. In the long run I got to really miss that part of her - even though the fact she shut it down was mostly my own doing. I miss the give and take and the compromise. I miss the being able to say things like “I love you so if you would rather do X lets do X… I don’t need to do Y.” I lost the ability to be her hero, the man she admired etc.. etc.. So yes she learned to be somewhat emotionally independent of me that is true. So no Im not arguing. Our MC has said the very same things. But here is the kicker…. she has become emotionally independent of everyone according to our MC. She has been that way since before she met me according to MC. We are skeptical. Sometimes I think the psychology of it all confuses us and we think of ourselves in more simply ways when its the two of us talking. We have some really good conversations now. Better than I can remember in years. Deep conversations. I wish we could have more but then we aren’t around each other all that much.

 

BW doesn't NEED you. She's deciding if she WANTS YOU.

So far....sure sex? I get that.

The sex experienced and sought by BWs after D Day is called something lol..can't remember I'M WAY PAST THAT lol. Mermaid knows the term.

It's completely DIFFERENT sex to before.

WSs may say better!

 

Yes Id agree with that. She says she wants to give it time and see if we can salvage it. Like I’ve said before there are great ups and great downs. She has talked about me moving back in two months from now (when my apartment lease is up). She has talked about starting to date. She has been warm to me and even compassionate when asking me about my FOO issues and things I went through. But then at other times she hits me with she doesn’t see how any of this is possible. That this isn’t fair and if she would have known I was doing these things she would have too. Im not looking for any sympathy here at all but its a helpless feeling to be an unfaithful wanting more than anything to reconcile. I suppose - a similar feeling of helplessness that the betrayed experiences when they are traumatized by finding out.

 

As far as the sex part goes. One thing that hurts my wife is that she actually wanted to liven up our sex life too. She would have been so anxious to work on our marriage and get more creative in the bedroom. She is sad that now she has to instead process all this pain and hurt. It is such a battle every day to forgive myself. Its as if I was in some sort of a daze before. Like some sort of Satan inspired Narcissistic daze. I wasn’t thinking straight. It seems so clear now. I had/have the most amazing woman. She was/is the love of my life and best friend. Yet I jeopardize a life with her for such pathetic reasons. I truly don’t recognize the person I was and am so pissed at that guy. Anyway, I know what you are talking about when you mentioned sex after D day. Im assuming you are talking about Hysterical Bonding. I think there was some of that but I don’t believe that is what it is now. I would say its different now though. You are right. Its not going through the motions now at all. Its an event! I also sense a much greater connection now than possibly ever. I think we would both say its better - other than when she has triggered thoughts… As you mentioned the cinema screens. I don’t feel that my wife is doing what you did however and is just putting on a show.

 

Not only would I NEVER tolerate a bf cheating.

I WALK immediately.

 

Why should it be any different in M?

I believe it's MORE important BECAUSE of the children.

 

I get what you are saying and you have every right to feel that way as does my BW. It really is her decision. All I can do is work at becoming the man I should have been. Some times people can forgive and some times they can not. Or they can forgive but even then not stay in the marriage. I understand all that. I also know for fact that some of the strongest and best marriages are ones which went through things like this. Ask those couples and they would say that they would never wish infidelity on anyone but if given the chance they would not go backwards and redo anything if it mean losing what they had now. I think that is very telling. We can disagree on whats best for children - I think we agree we only would want what was best for them though. I think people are not disposable however and infidelity does’t happen in a vacuum. Easy for me to say as an unfaithful I know. I do believe in all honesty that if the roles were reversed I would be right where my wife is at. I would be having the same ups and downs she is. Id want to kill her and love her at the same time something she has has told me many times. I believe after getting the right help and seeing changes made I would chose her. But again perhaps I’m biased. I do think people are more than their bad choices and CAN/DO change.

 

Lastly (I hope!) For now at least...there are 7 FORMS of Abuse. Not exclusive to ONE partner's actions.

But women living with an abusive man are often REACTING to the abuse.

Forms of abuse overlap.

 

I can’t disagree with anything you said. Its hard to read and think of myself as an abuser but again. I can’t disagree with anything you wrote. I can’t change the past. I can only work on today. I am at a point in my life where I have given up hope for a better past. My past unfortunately wont change but I’m so glad my future will. As tiny as it is and as Im sure its meaningless to all reading this (as well as my wife) I am happy that for the past 10 weeks Ive stayed completely sober (to keep with the drinking analogy). It has not been difficult (the staying clean/sober part) which makes me curious. I can only assume that the work I did in IC really opened my eyes to a lot of needed understanding. Regardless I stay ever vigilant and continue to walk my path.

 

 

 

 

OP, your wife is still closed and it seems she is not finding any reason to open up. You are again making it about yourself by trying to make yourself desirable by her. How about making her feel wanted, desired ? How about doing the things that you did with other women, doing with her ? Those cheap women didn't deserve it.Did they ? You and them just used each other.

 

 

I don’t know that it is of any benefit to respond to you but Ill do so anyway.

 

I think she does open up to me. Often. She is however still dealing with a lot of trauma and pain. I don’t know that I am being selfish by trying to do what I can to please her. Give her some happiness. If you are suggesting I shouldn’t try to be desirable to her we will just disagree. You would rather I try to be undesirable or perhaps you prefer to just take the opposite side of anything I say. Ive wronged my wife not you. You can now reply and say Im being defensive. Your welcome. You told me I would cheat again - does it make you feel better to beat up WS? IF so, I guess Im glad I can give you that satisfaction. I know I’m an easy target. I appreciate constructive criticism or as LH does, shares points of view without being insulting.

 

I'm a 54 year old married man. Married for half my life. It's not easy. We had our own fights, disagreements. My wife has now got wrinkles , gained weight and old age health issues are rearing ugly head. Does it mean I should ogle or give compliments , chat up , other women who are same age as her but slimmer, Botox faced, boob jobs , starving or popping pills to stay trim and chasing taken men who are as willing ( as you )?

 

 

No it doesn’t mean you should be the lowly scum that you think I have been. Again we have covered this. You are/were a great husband and I was nothing or worse than nothing in your opinion. Who will cheat again. I got it. You have given my your opinions. move along.

 

Make her wanted. As long as other women are around or creep up, she is thrown off the bus, by you. You will feel ugly when you feel not wanted by her.

 

I do make her feel wanted. In every way I know how because I do in fact want her. Again, there are no other women around. No women creeping up. She is not being thrown off any bus by me anymore. If she decides that she can no longer be married to me it will hurt. I understand this simple fact. I will feel very rejected and sad. I will only have myself to blame and I will have to accpet it. Yes I get it. Thanks.

[Regretful one]

*Update*

Not much to update. Ive been really busy with work. I won't sacrifice any of the other things Im doing so sleep and posting/reading on here had to give . I think my wife must be reading this thread as she mentioned that I hadn't posted on any forums lately. I didn't question her about it. If she (you) are reading please know that my thoughts here are thoughts. Like a journal. Im thinking out loud looking for advice from others who are where you are.

 

Past few days have been difficult with a few bright spots. Work is a good way to escape and yet be productive. I workout more than ever and am noticing some gains rather than maintaining which is what I've done for past couple years so thats good. My wife and son both noticed which was nice. My wife continues to have good days and bad. Usually when she works are the days she struggles. She works 3 days a week and those are typically the worst days of the week. She says she feels exhausted a lot of the time obviously from dealing with all of this plus the rest of things that life throws our way.

 

She recently texted me during a bad day and said the she would just need to not talk to me for a few days. I took that to mean she wanted some space. She later that same day asked me why I hadn't texted her to tell her I loved her. Said that usually I text her and tell her good morning, good night etc.. etc.. I need to learn I guess to read between the lines. A few nights ago when I picked up my daughter she was very cold to me. So I just hurried my daughter up, prayed with my wife, tried to rub her shoulders with little response. I told her I loved her with no response. I took that to mean give her space. Then the next day she made it sound like I wasn't pursuing her. I think I am just dense sometimes or something. Im going to start trying to be more affectionate even if she doesn't seem to want me to be so. I figure the worse that will happen is ill get punched but I know I don't want her to think I don't want her!

 

We have a 2 hour long couples MC session today. Fingers crossed things go well.

[mikeylo]

Whoa! I don't see where I have been insulting to you? Yeah, I did call those women as cheap and that's the truth. People ( men and women ) who go around flirting, crossing boundaries, having inappropriate conversations/ body language with a taken person IS cheap, no matter how anyone tries to defend it. They are as low moral character as the WS. I won't apologize for saying so.

 

Yes, I love my wife and more than that I respect her and our relationship.

 

Again , I don't see where I beat you up ? Enlighten me! I'm giving you pointers on how to get her back. Unfortunately, truth is bitter.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but she will not see you as her hero anymore. A guy who needs plenty of women around is weak. She has seen that. She is stronger to have survived the betrayal, even though she feels weak now. How can you be a protector when you are the one who hurt her deepest ? That was an illusion she was in but now the reality is in front of her.

 

I'm sorry but your wife is still not opening to you. Otherwise these thoughts would have come straight from her mouth. It's because of your defensive approach, I'm afraid.

 

Yes, I'm a very proud married man because I know the hard work that I have put to keep my wife as number 1 and making all women jealous of her.

 

Well, I'm a guy and my way of writing and speaking is straight shooting. I don't sugar coat and can't write as eloquently and give soft blows as the fabulous women here. I say it as a man, take it or leave it.

[Regretful one]

Simply put we don't understand each other. I welcome advice, constructive criticism. Ive tried to explain to you my thoughts and you choose to not understand. Its fine. Some people simply do not tend to agree with others perhaps. Read LH's posts. She is every bit a straight shooter. No sugar coating etc.. etc.. I don't think you actually read my comments, you instead choose to spout a barrage of how terrible I am/was etc.. I don't disagree with the choices I made being wrong. I can't say it enough and again if you would read my comments in this thread you would see that.

 

Whoa! I don't see where I have been insulting to you? Yeah, I did call those women as cheap and that's the truth. People ( men and women ) who go around flirting, crossing boundaries, having inappropriate conversations/ body language with a taken person IS cheap, no matter how anyone tries to defend it. They are as low moral character as the WS. I won't apologize for saying so.

 

It was an insult to suggest I would go cheat again.. You don't know me. Period. You don't fully know my situation. To suggest I would do something again which I am extremely remorseful for is an insult.

 

I have no idea where you come up with suggesting that I was defending "cheap" men or women. I have never once defended anyone who crosses boundaries including myself. Im not asking you to apologize for that opinion - Im asking you to not put words in my mouth.

 

Yes, I love my wife and more than that I respect her and our relationship.

 

Great Im happy for you!

 

Again , I don't see where I beat you up ? Enlighten me! I'm giving you pointers on how to get her back. Unfortunately, truth is bitter.

 

Its constant. Every post. Go back and read perhaps. Pointers are welcomed. I understand the truth can be bitter.

 

I'm sorry but your wife is still not opening to you. Otherwise these thoughts would have come straight from her mouth. It's because of your defensive approach, I'm afraid.

 

Yes, I'm a very proud married man because I know the hard work that I have put to keep my wife as number 1 and making all women jealous of her.

 

You don't know my wife. You don't know me. Unless you state other wise you have no back ground in psychology, social work, marriage counseling etc.. you choose to put yourself on top of a pedestal as the example of whom to look at. Its not my bubble that needs bursting. I have admitted my faults repetitively on here. I am honestly happy that you are a proud married man and that you make other women jealous of your wife. Thats great. Again I don't find your thoughts helpful for my situation. Perhaps others would. Suggesting my wife is not opening up to me because I have a defensive approach is unfounded and insulting. You have not been around when I am talking to my wife. I have been anything but defensive with her. Im sorry you can't take criticism for the way your "pointers" come across to me. I suggest you find a different thread where the OP can better utilize your methods of counseling.

 

Well, I'm a guy and my way of writing and speaking is straight shooting. I don't sugar coat and can't write as eloquently and give soft blows as the fabulous women here. I say it as a man, take it or leave it.

 

There have been other guys here as well. There have been many BS shooting it straight. LH is a prime example. At this point I don't want to see this thread closed because of bickering. Id rather "leave it" and allow you to find another thread. Good day sir.

[aileD]

Hi there RO and Mrs RO

 

I hope things are going well for you both. I know how hard it can be to get over something like this. I honestly feel I have PTSD from a lot of the things I went thru/H put me through.

 

It's confusing and Try to understand Mrs RO's sort of confused and back and forth emotions are completely normal. I know RO is doing IC and there is some MC....but is Mrs RO doing IC as well? It can help be a support and help work through things

 

I think it's also important to find support and surround yourselves with people and resources that are pro-recovery. People that have been through it and got through it and came out on the other side with a transformed and healed marriage.

 

I'm not sure if I will reply again before you go to your EMS weekend, but I just wanted to say that I wish you the best out there and hope the weekend helps greatly with bringing you closer, understanding each other more, and helping you move forward with healing.

 

I'll be praying for you both

 

AileD

[Lion Heart]

RO is your weekend away coming up soon?

 

You don't have to give dates etc.

 

Just really hoping you guys can both get the help that you're both seeking. Healing :-). I truly wish you and Mrs RO lol the best.

 

As aileD pointed out, the healing takes a VERY long time.

It's sad to see some OP here still suffering in Reconciliation 30+ years later.

 

It would be SO WONDERFUL for couples sincere in their endeavours to reconcile if there was a just something IDK a pill?

 

A magic wand.

 

Well I just bought our new Christmas tree, I threw ours off our balcony when WH was trying to force me to have sex with strangers. Soon after my D Day.

 

I'll ALWAYS be grateful for my D Day.

It BEGAN to show me the REAL person I'd married.

He's rotten to the core. And I always used to say that nobody is all bad. To me exWH is.

 

But in your case RO I believe and so much hope that in all your efforts, you are sincere.

Isn't that WONDERFUL!!!

I truly doubt you'd bother at all with ALL your diligent and sustained hard work if you were a fake.

 

It's not for me to judge whether you've redeemed yourself.

It's for you.

I say to my children all the time, that you are the only person you'll have to sleep with for the rest of your life.

Make good decisions.

Wise ones.

 

Your disclosures were wise IMHO.

 

This is truly a rebirthing for you.

Congratulations. This is a job hard fought and you'll win.

Because you'll be able to KNOW you did the right thing from then onwards.

 

Best wishes

Lion Heart

[Lion Heart]

#168 in that post of yours RO, you mention something in the 1st year of M that may have changed your W.

 

I'm not asking what that is...as a woman and a wife 3 times over lol I might know myself....

 

Anyway the POINT was about "adoration" etc...it kinda twigged a memory of a woman I knew once.

She and her H had been married for 20y.

They had 3 young children.

 

Their 1st 10y were childless then the kids and careers...blah blah blah lol.

 

SHE said that her and her H and the 3 children made the same KIND of trip to a different place in nature every year.

 

Around the campfire she would look at her husband and say "THAT'S why I married you!" Lol. It was like they were crazy busy all year long and only reconnected FULLY on that trip once a year.

 

Ok it takes two VERY mature and IDK self-sustaining? Individuals for that kind of M.

But it's the CONNECTION and solidifying WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE TOGETHER thats my point.

 

What MAY sustain a wife may not sustain a husband and vice versa.

SO Like a Venn diagram lol WHERE'S THE crossover?

 

It's the magic of good relationships when there's a natural crossover ie my bf and I just LOOOOOOVVE cooking like crazy love it. Both being from sunny parts of the world we love being together in water ...

And absolutely love driving on trips together for any reason. We are very good travellers together.

 

What do you both love doing independently that's the same?

(Sorry but without the children as a focii - even though they may accompany you both too).

 

I think it's sad when a wife stops adoring her husband.

Admiring him too.

 

I work in a field where to focus on deficiencies is ALL that seems to happen. It's critical for improvement ofcourse BUT I HAVE FAR more success by simultaneously focussing on STRENGTHS.

 

LOL that's possibly why ALL my husbands thought I adored them so much that I could be treated as a doormat.

 

But they learnt by divorce.

 

See I'm a typical betrayed husband in all manners except the obvious to me lol.

The STBexVWH is a typical wayward wife. Yeah a real princess lol.

 

The lessons in the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" being pertinent to me.

 

But I really think you'd LOVE the Stephen Covey materials RO and so would Mrs RO if she's a reader. Your children too. He has clips on YouTube too about ALL sorts. I love his stuff there on CHARACTER vs PERSONALITY.

 

You'll see Covey's incredible way of teaching us stuff I think you'd wished that YOU learnt as a child.

Instead of learning huge Bible verses and The Lord's Prayer by rote not understanding, my parents could have taught more useful things (oh blasphemy lol) regarding life, love and commitment.

 

I guess they would've had to PRACTICE that too lol.

 

Without trying to psychoanalyse too much....but this comes from J and his sharing about his learning re M and infidelity.

 

Some women expect their Hs to behave towards them as their father did to their mother. Subliminally etc.

And if their H doesn't then he "falls short" in some way.

 

Hence adoration falling off. IDK.

 

It was just like that for Js wife.

It didn't matter WHAT he achieved in his own rights.

And he's an incredibly successful man in 3 fields.

He could never be HER father.

So she absolutely took him for granted. Treated him like a doormat etc.

He DID (maybe still does..btw I should ask him this. If he hadn't proposed this year, I'd have a clearer conscience talking with him at all lol) ACTIVELY SEEK the adoration missing from his M.

 

And he got it seemingly anywhere and everywhere lol!

He's incredibly handsome so women fall at his feet.

Astounding to witness.

I laugh alot at this spectacle.

Cause he doesn't have me doing that omg. No.

 

I digress...just trying to understand WHAT and IF there's yet to be discovered or rediscovered to reignite the adoration stuff for you in your M. Especially now.

 

Hang in there!!

:-))

Lion Heart

[Lion Heart]

*Update*

Not much to update. Ive been really busy with work. I won't sacrifice any of the other things Im doing so sleep and posting/reading on here had to give . I think my wife must be reading this thread as she mentioned that I hadn't posted on any forums lately. I didn't question her about it. If she (you) are reading please know that my thoughts here are thoughts. Like a journal. Im thinking out loud looking for advice from others who are where you are.

 

Past few days have been difficult with a few bright spots. Work is a good way to escape and yet be productive. I workout more than ever and am noticing some gains rather than maintaining which is what I've done for past couple years so thats good. My wife and son both noticed which was nice. My wife continues to have good days and bad. Usually when she works are the days she struggles. She works 3 days a week and those are typically the worst days of the week. She says she feels exhausted a lot of the time obviously from dealing with all of this plus the rest of things that life throws our way.

 

She recently texted me during a bad day and said the she would just need to not talk to me for a few days. I took that to mean she wanted some space. She later that same day asked me why I hadn't texted her to tell her I loved her. Said that usually I text her and tell her good morning, good night etc.. etc.. I need to learn I guess to read between the lines. A few nights ago when I picked up my daughter she was very cold to me. So I just hurried my daughter up, prayed with my wife, tried to rub her shoulders with little response. I told her I loved her with no response. I took that to mean give her space. Then the next day she made it sound like I wasn't pursuing her. I think I am just dense sometimes or something. Im going to start trying to be more affectionate even if she doesn't seem to want me to be so. I figure the worse that will happen is ill get punched but I know I don't want her to think I don't want her!

 

We have a 2 hour long couples MC session today. Fingers crossed things go well.

 

RO how you're describing your BW is so much what I went through too. I was just ALL OVER THE PLACE.

 

And it's unpredictable too.

 

Maybe BW is triggering? Like when she's gone cold she's having mind movies.

Triggers are so crap.

 

Does your BW DISCUSS any triggers she's having with you?

 

LH

[Lion Heart]

RO I know you've got alot going on. Too much!

 

The MC told WH to write me a letter.

Lol the letter was pretty crappy. About 3 sentences long.

Something like he loved me more than he's ever loved anyone bs bs bs. Probably true but crappy treatment still the same. He's got ISSUES so let's not go there in detail.

 

IDK IF I WERE you I'd write a ton of letters to BW / maybe I should call her Mrs RO like alieD has.

 

Maybe Mrs RO can open the letter that corresponds (maybe answers) her feelings at that moment.

 

So if she's feeling unloved by you. Or ever wondering...then a letter that has your apology in detail regarding her feelings. Stating your recommitment.

That's a biggie I think. Was for me anyway.

 

A trigger may be that Mrs RO felt "what did SHE (indeed they) have that I didn't?" Again it's wise to tell the truth.

You can go back to your own ability to not UNDERSTAND at the time that you still had shyte to work out re FOO issues.

This need to be stating you taking full responsibility and now KNOWING the steps that led you there. Etc.

 

The FUTURE letter...(it was the FUTURE that freaked me out the most whilst being bomb shelled by WH past affairs and SEEING HIS behaviours more clearly in front of me during R... like dog panting when he saw any female... a sick sight for me).

This is about your FOCUS in all ways on God, Mrs RO, your work...etcetera.

WHAT you believe your futures together will look like.

SO important.

 

You see when you're THERE in her presence she sees the TWO of you. The one she now knows was with OWs (the ogre I called that lol) AND the one who's talking now (white noise when she only sees the ogre). Her husband trying to talk.

 

The letters help when you're not there more than you may think.

 

When you are....NEVER say "that's all in the past" (RO that's what abusers always say!).

You need to think about what you want to say when she's battling her mind.

My suggestion is something like this...look at her in the eyes, close if you can and say "You KNOW I love you. You know I'm sincere. This work I've been doing has helped cast off those things that made me who I was. I'm free of that and will ALWAYS know how destructive that all was to YOU, the last person I'd ever want to hurt.."

Our future IS GOOD because as God is my witness lol I'LL do all in my power and his to give you everything I have.

 

RO IF THE ogre wins in her mind for a sustained period of time (when she's cold or triggering) then the M is over.

 

ExWH had a WINDOW OF TIME to work REALLY REALLY hard and fix this M.

He was too broken.

 

 

You are not. You may have been once. Now you are getting the answers because you're finally asking the QUESTIONS.

 

Make sure to download What A Wayward Spouse needs to do to heal their marraige. Wow that was in my autocorrect lol!

 

I know this weekend affair recovery program is very expensive BUT CAN YOU PLAN SOME really fun activities together as a family and as a couple?

Bike riding?? IDK nature walking?

Picnics?

Alone / together.

For reconnection and hopefully the ogre can slowly disappear in her mind and the GREAT GUY can win.

 

Ughhhh it's so crap. I hope these things help.

I'm off to feed the chickens lol.

 

Lion Heart

[Regretful one]

Hi there RO and Mrs RO

 

I hope things are going well for you both. I know how hard it can be to get over something like this. I honestly feel I have PTSD from a lot of the things I went thru/H put me through.

 

It's confusing and Try to understand Mrs RO's sort of confused and back and forth emotions are completely normal. I know RO is doing IC and there is some MC....but is Mrs RO doing IC as well? It can help be a support and help work through things

 

I think it's also important to find support and surround yourselves with people and resources that are pro-recovery. People that have been through it and got through it and came out on the other side with a transformed and healed marriage.

 

I'm not sure if I will reply again before you go to your EMS weekend, but I just wanted to say that I wish you the best out there and hope the weekend helps greatly with bringing you closer, understanding each other more, and helping you move forward with healing.

 

I'll be praying for you both

 

AileD

 

Thank you for your reply. I do in fact now know that my wife AKA Mrs. RO reads and has read this thread. She was actually concerned because I stopped posting for a couple days. I was in deed busy with work. But knowing she likes to read what I (and other BS write) write will inspire me to keep posting frequently. Perhaps she will create an account and post on her own? No idea. Anyway, thank you for addressing her as well!

 

My wife does also get some IC. Our marriage counselor seems to determine when we need IC or couples sessions. Having said that our last 2 hour couples session seemed to be more of an IC for her as I think I talked for maybe all of 5 minutes! lol. I think my wife has some FOO issues of her own that she would be helped by more IC. I also think that she will really appreciate getting a chance to be around other BS during our weekend retreat. She sometimes is hard on herself for the way she feels. She will say things like she is crazy or she is messed up. I encourage her and tell her that its normal to feel the way she feels and that I understand it. But She needs to see and meet and talk to BW who are where she is. I think it will be so good for her. I encouraged her to read more threads here and on affairrecovery.com as there are so many other BS struggling.

 

I AGREE! Recovery is so important for us both regardless of what my wife chooses to do. My wife does indeed want to reconcile I believe - and you know my thoughts on the subject. She has a friend who divorced her husband after his affair but then it was a different situation (they are all different after all right?). That person was not remorseful and went to live with his AP. So when when she talks to that friend I fear that friend is very negative on reconciling because of her own experience. The weekend retreat is geared towards couples who want to reconcile and it is a Christian based program (as you know). Yet they don't try to steer couples one way or the other. They promote healing and the BS doing what is best for them. At least thats my take on it.

 

Thank you for your prayers and well wishes! I am a bit nervous but also looking forward to the weekend.

[ShatteredLady]

Post 177 Mikey....

 

"How about making her feel wanted, desired ? How about doing the things that you did with other women, doing with her ? Those cheap women didn't deserve it. Did they ?"

 

.....I took a different meaning from this. Maybe because I'm a BS & this triggered me awfully. It's something I wish my WH would understand & do for me. Not because I've asked him to. Just because he WANT'S to.

 

 

After 12 years my H's exOW reached out to him through LinkedIn. All she wrote was "Hey!". It took him a whole week of thinking about it to reply to her. He wrote a very long, very thoughtful, very beautiful letter. In 25 years he has NEVER written to me like that!

 

Reading messages between the love of your life & his secret passion is beyond brutal. Those WORDS!! Ugh! Just little words, one after the other, how can things so small hurt so very much? They burn to the core. Little words strong enough to destroy our love story, our life.

 

I WANT WORDS LIKE THAT!!

 

In the next 6 WEEKS he sent her 3 HUGE bouquets of flowers. I've NEVER received flowers like that! 20 anniversaries, 25 birthdays NEVER! I'm a bunch of grocery store flowers kind of woman.

Even the Mother's Day that led to d-day he purchased flowers on a "buy 1 get 1 of LESSER VALUE half price" deal. I was thrilled to get my first delivery flowers from him only to learn I was the lesser value, after thought, because there was a CHEAP deal.

 

He sent her music CD's that he thought she would like (it was my music. My favorite CD's) but he shared music he loved just because he could. Just to please her.

He sent her a gift basket of my favorite wine. I've NEVER had a basket of wine or chocolates or anything delivered to me. Just wishing me a nice relaxing weekend.

 

He bombarded her with all of these gestures in a few weeks! It must of been lovely for her. All those surprise gifts. All of those words. All of it!!

 

I'm a cheap date

 

No-one has ever done that for me. I don't know what it's like to be wooed like that. I'm not worth it. We met when I was only 21 years old. I'll never know what it's like to be treated like that. It must feel so special. I can only imagine a man putting that kind of effort into me.

 

It was our 20th Wedding Anniversary a couple of weeks ago. I got a bunch of flowers from Target & takeout food. That's me.

 

 

When Mikey wrote - "How about making her feel wanted, desired ? How about doing the things that you did with other women, doing with her ?". That's what I thought he meant.

 

It would be wonderful to receive the words, the gifts, the obsessive thoughts. I AM JEALOUS of a woman who thought nothing of being complicit in destroying the most precious thing in my world...My little family. It was the world to me.

[Regretful one]

RO is your weekend away coming up soon?

 

We leave a week from today.

 

Just really hoping you guys can both get the help that you're both seeking. Healing :-). I truly wish you and Mrs RO lol the best.

 

As aileD pointed out, the healing takes a VERY long time.

It's sad to see some OP here still suffering in Reconciliation 30+ years later.

 

Amen to that. And thank you.

 

Yes I want no part of suffering years down the road. I want my wife to be the happy giddy woman she used to be. I know it will take potentially years of work but I want to be the man she deserves too. I so want that marriage that some talk about which are AMAZING after they recover from infidelity. Nothing amazing comes easy however.

 

It would be SO WONDERFUL for couples sincere in their endeavours to reconcile if there was a just something IDK a pill?

 

A magic wand.

 

My wife has said almost the exact same thing. She is exhausted by this. It is something she constantly thinks about and it wears her out. I don’t know if you have ever seen the movie with Jim Carrey “Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind” but they erase parts of someones memory.. That would be nice for infidelity.

 

Well I just bought our new Christmas tree, I threw ours off our balcony when WH was trying to force me to have sex with strangers. Soon after my D Day.

 

Interesting thing is that my wife just texted me that she has always shared sex stuff with just me and that I had been sharing that with others.. She says it would be easier for her if she had been doing the same things. Yet can’t because she isn’t that person. Its frustrating because of the level of unfairness that happens when a spouse does this. I understand what she means. Id feel the same way in her shoes I know it. But in your case.. its odd that he wanted you to do that. His guilt must have just been so high - either that or he was just trying to find an easy fix. Maybe both.

 

I'll ALWAYS be grateful for my D Day.

It BEGAN to show me the REAL person I'd married.

He's rotten to the core. And I always used to say that nobody is all bad. To me exWH is.

 

LH, I am sorry for what you went through. I can sense your pain that still exists.. not because you miss him or want that marriage back but because you were betrayed and that is a very real pain that no one should have to go through. Its not fair. Its not right and the unfaithful unfortunately simply do not think about their spouse when they make these terrible decisions. I HATE that I made that decision. MORE THAN ONCE! I get so mad at my old self. I want to kick his ass so bad.

 

But in your case RO I believe and so much hope that in all your efforts, you are sincere.

Isn't that WONDERFUL!!!

I truly doubt you'd bother at all with ALL your diligent and sustained hard work if you were a fake.

 

Well I think id have to be a seriously mentally ill person to go through what I’ve gone through and continue to go through if I wasn’t sincere (Now I’m not saying I’m going through more than my wife or looking for sympathy here..). My point is that Im fighting tooth and nail and spend a lot of time on my knees daily - if I wasn’t sincere I think id be doing other things with my time.

 

It's not for me to judge whether you've redeemed yourself.

It's for you.

I say to my children all the time, that you are the only person you'll have to sleep with for the rest of your life.

Make good decisions.

Wise ones.

 

Very smart advice. And very true.

[ShatteredLady]

The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind has always been one of my favorite movies! Wouldn't it be wonderful? Even though that's kind of the opposite to the message of the film....which I completely agreed with before.... so very much can be split into before & after.

 

 

You sound very sincere. I truly hope that you guys can get past this & find your Eternal Sunshine again.

[aileD]

Interesting thing is that my wife just texted me that she has always shared sex stuff with just me and that I had been sharing that with others.. She says it would be easier for her if she had been doing the same things. Yet can’t because she isn’t that person. Its frustrating because of the level of unfairness that happens when a spouse does this. I understand what she means. Id feel the same way in her shoes I know it..

 

Yup. It sucks. My husband was a virgin when I met him in high school. I had one other partner- my HS boyfriend of three years. Now my H has slept with more people than me. ....just two more....but the fact it happened during our marriage is a real bummer...to put it lightly.

 

It makes me sad. But I can't dwell on sad in recovery. It happened. It can't be erased or taken back. I have to move forward from here. And to be honest, I think we are going to have a better relationship than we did pre-affair. I'm glad that we will have the opportunity to do that. And I'm glad we sort of got forced into really looking deeper at our relationship and putting in the work to focus on it.

 

It doesn't take away the hurt and disappointment and complete crushing of my soul but I'm trying to "find the good" in the situation. Always focus on the good

 

Mrs RO may not want to hear this....and I'm sure she doesn't feel this away and I am in no way diminishing anything she feels....but in my eyes, she's blessed to have a husband that is so committed to recovery as you are. Committed to understanding and giving her what she needs and taking responsibility for your bad choices. My husband is there now, but we did a year of push/pull that completely tore my guts out. So Mrs RO, if you are reading this please look for the good in the crappy situation. It may not seem there is any good sometimes but you can always find something.

 

Still praying for you.

[aileD]

Oh and movies. I've watched "Stuck in Love" on Netflix probably about 40 times this last year. More my situation than yours but man that movie spoke to me. Gave me hope to hold on when all seemed lost ...that love and family can find a way back to eachother no matter how done it seems to be.

[dreamingoftigers]

Post 177 Mikey....

 

"How about making her feel wanted, desired ? How about doing the things that you did with other women, doing with her ? Those cheap women didn't deserve it. Did they ?"

 

.....I took a different meaning from this. Maybe because I'm a BS & this triggered me awfully. It's something I wish my WH would understand & do for me. Not because I've asked him to. Just because he WANT'S to.

 

 

After 12 years my H's exOW reached out to him through LinkedIn. All she wrote was "Hey!". It took him a whole week of thinking about it to reply to her. He wrote a very long, very thoughtful, very beautiful letter. In 25 years he has NEVER written to me like that!

 

Reading messages between the love of your life & his secret passion is beyond brutal. Those WORDS!! Ugh! Just little words, one after the other, how can things so small hurt so very much? They burn to the core. Little words strong enough to destroy our love story, our life.

 

I WANT WORDS LIKE THAT!!

 

In the next 6 WEEKS he sent her 3 HUGE bouquets of flowers. I've NEVER received flowers like that! 20 anniversaries, 25 birthdays NEVER! I'm a bunch of grocery store flowers kind of woman.

Even the Mother's Day that led to d-day he purchased flowers on a "buy 1 get 1 of LESSER VALUE half price" deal. I was thrilled to get my first delivery flowers from him only to learn I was the lesser value, after thought, because there was a CHEAP deal.

 

He sent her music CD's that he thought she would like (it was my music. My favorite CD's) but he shared music he loved just because he could. Just to please her.

He sent her a gift basket of my favorite wine. I've NEVER had a basket of wine or chocolates or anything delivered to me. Just wishing me a nice relaxing weekend.

 

He bombarded her with all of these gestures in a few weeks! It must of been lovely for her. All those surprise gifts. All of those words. All of it!!

 

I'm a cheap date

 

No-one has ever done that for me. I don't know what it's like to be wooed like that. I'm not worth it. We met when I was only 21 years old. I'll never know what it's like to be treated like that. It must feel so special. I can only imagine a man putting that kind of effort into me.

 

It was our 20th Wedding Anniversary a couple of weeks ago. I got a bunch of flowers from Target & takeout food. That's me.

 

 

When Mikey wrote - "How about making her feel wanted, desired ? How about doing the things that you did with other women, doing with her ?". That's what I thought he meant.

 

It would be wonderful to receive the words, the gifts, the obsessive thoughts. I AM JEALOUS of a woman who thought nothing of being complicit in destroying the most precious thing in my world...My little family. It was the world to me.

 

This really resonated with me.

 

We just had our tenth in May. Meh. We went out to dinner but that was it.

The ways that he talked to the other women .... wow. He NEVER talked that way to me, even when we were dating.

 

I have had eleven years with him, supported him through endless bullshyte, borne two of his children and most of the time supported the family.

 

But that all becomes absolutely nothing because other women have nicer arses. They deserve far more attention and care I guess.

[mikeylo]

Yes, shattered lady, that's what I meant.

 

Even if the first step was just a 'hey' by his exOW, your husband was the one who should not have even responded. She was wrong but more than her, it was him. Why did he indulge? She didn't force him?

 

I'm sorry for your pain. I saw my sister suffering. The b@stard ( my ex WBIL) had the guts to continue making new female friends and throwing them in her face and continued his disgusting behavior, expecting her to accept the ' just friends ' and stop her neurotic attitude and keep watching him giving tight hugs to barely covered boobs of other women , sloppy kisses and what not. Yeah, she sucked up for a while , packed her bags and left. He too left -- lol but to the psychiatric ward.

[mikeylo]

This really resonated with me.

 

We just had our tenth in May. Meh. We went out to dinner but that was it.

The ways that he talked to the other women .... wow. He NEVER talked that way to me, even when we were dating.

 

I have had eleven years with him, supported him through endless bullshyte, borne two of his children and most of the time supported the family.

 

But that all becomes absolutely nothing because other women have nicer arses. They deserve far more attention and care I guess.

 

They don't have better azzs. They feed him with false compliments and appreciation that you wouldn't because you know it's not true. Most OW feed so much ego boost that is impossible for a spouse to compete with. I can bet , if they were replaced with the spouse , same would happen. That's why those marriages fail.

OW also know what crap is spitting through their mouth but if the guy is giving them the attention, then why not ? If he stops, no one would cross the line.

 

As I said somewhere, WS and OW/OM , just use each other at the cost of BS.

[ShatteredLady]

Yes, shattered lady, that's what I meant.

 

Even if the first step was just a 'hey' by his exOW, your husband was the one who should not have even responded. She was wrong but more than her, it was him. Why did he indulge? She didn't force him?

 

I'm sorry for your pain. I saw my sister suffering. The b@stard ( my ex WBIL) had the guts to continue making new female friends and throwing them in her face and continued his disgusting behavior, expecting her to accept the ' just friends ' and stop her neurotic attitude and keep watching him giving tight hugs to barely covered boobs of other women , sloppy kisses and what not. Yeah, she sucked up for a while , packed her bags and left. He too left -- lol but to the psychiatric ward.

 

 

 

I'd LOVE to know the thought processes that he went through in that week. I can't stop thinking about it.

 

Funny, I don't really have a big problem with OW. I knew her the first time. She doesn't believe in longevity in human relationships. She doesn't even stay in contact with her mother or father (obviously divorced), has no long term friends, she was artificially inseminated with her children. Travels most of the time for her job. Frequently moves states & doesn't stay in contact with anyone (except my H!).

 

My H doesn't believe, think, live or promise like that. Quite the opposite. He betrayed himself nearly as much as he did me.

[ShatteredLady]

They don't have better azzs. They feed him with false compliments and appreciation that you wouldn't because you know it's not true. Most OW feed so much ego boost that is impossible for a spouse to compete with. I can bet , if they were replaced with the spouse , same would happen. That's why those marriages fail.

OW also know what crap is spitting through their mouth but if the guy is giving them the attention, then why not ? If he stops, no one would cross the line.

 

As I said somewhere, WS and OW/OM , just use each other at the cost of BS.

 

 

My H's OW described him as "The most moral, loyal, principled man she had ever met in her life" on several occasions!!

 

You've got to laugh sometimes.

[Regretful one]

Post 177 Mikey....

 

"How about making her feel wanted, desired ? How about doing the things that you did with other women, doing with her ? Those cheap women didn't deserve it. Did they ?"

 

.....I took a different meaning from this. Maybe because I'm a BS & this triggered me awfully. It's something I wish my WH would understand & do for me. Not because I've asked him to. Just because he WANT'S to.

 

 

After 12 years my H's exOW reached out to him through LinkedIn. All she wrote was "Hey!". It took him a whole week of thinking about it to reply to her. He wrote a very long, very thoughtful, very beautiful letter. In 25 years he has NEVER written to me like that!

 

Reading messages between the love of your life & his secret passion is beyond brutal. Those WORDS!! Ugh! Just little words, one after the other, how can things so small hurt so very much? They burn to the core. Little words strong enough to destroy our love story, our life.

 

I WANT WORDS LIKE THAT!!

 

In the next 6 WEEKS he sent her 3 HUGE bouquets of flowers. I've NEVER received flowers like that! 20 anniversaries, 25 birthdays NEVER! I'm a bunch of grocery store flowers kind of woman.

Even the Mother's Day that led to d-day he purchased flowers on a "buy 1 get 1 of LESSER VALUE half price" deal. I was thrilled to get my first delivery flowers from him only to learn I was the lesser value, after thought, because there was a CHEAP deal.

 

He sent her music CD's that he thought she would like (it was my music. My favorite CD's) but he shared music he loved just because he could. Just to please her.

He sent her a gift basket of my favorite wine. I've NEVER had a basket of wine or chocolates or anything delivered to me. Just wishing me a nice relaxing weekend.

 

He bombarded her with all of these gestures in a few weeks! It must of been lovely for her. All those surprise gifts. All of those words. All of it!!

 

I'm a cheap date

 

No-one has ever done that for me. I don't know what it's like to be wooed like that. I'm not worth it. We met when I was only 21 years old. I'll never know what it's like to be treated like that. It must feel so special. I can only imagine a man putting that kind of effort into me.

 

It was our 20th Wedding Anniversary a couple of weeks ago. I got a bunch of flowers from Target & takeout food. That's me.

 

 

When Mikey wrote - "How about making her feel wanted, desired ? How about doing the things that you did with other women, doing with her ?". That's what I thought he meant.

 

It would be wonderful to receive the words, the gifts, the obsessive thoughts. I AM JEALOUS of a woman who thought nothing of being complicit in destroying the most precious thing in my world...My little family. It was the world to me.

 

 

Shattered,

Thank you for your post. It was very heart felt. It is my hope that you do feel that kind of treatment some day from a man. I am terribly sorry that you haven't been to this point. I know I have failed my wife in many ways as well and can only work at giving her the things she deserved from me (if she allows me to) in the future. It would be remiss of me if I didn't however tell you that there is someone who does want and desire you more than anything. At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite because of my many past sins there is a God who does long for a relationship with you. I don't know if you are a person of faith so forgive me either way. I also know you were speaking of your husband and wanting a man to show you what your husband unfortunately showed this other person. I am sorry you are dealing with that pain. NO one deserves to be made to feel that way - to know I have made my wife feel that sort of pain is difficult to bear.

 

You are no cheap date and I hope/pray that you are witness to that fact soon.

[Regretful one]

Wow LH you have gone post crazy here! lol

 

I appreciate it.

 

 

 

Anyway the POINT was about "adoration" etc...it kinda twigged a memory of a woman I knew once.

She and her H had been married for 20y.

They had 3 young children.

 

Their 1st 10y were childless then the kids and careers...blah blah blah lol.

 

SHE said that her and her H and the 3 children made the same KIND of trip to a different place in nature every year.

 

Around the campfire she would look at her husband and say "THAT'S why I married you!" Lol. It was like they were crazy busy all year long and only reconnected FULLY on that trip once a year.

 

Ok it takes two VERY mature and IDK self-sustaining? Individuals for that kind of M.

But it's the CONNECTION and solidifying WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE TOGETHER thats my point.

 

YES… Thats it.. That connection.. I so missed that. I even admitted to the other women I talked to and my AP that I missed the connection with my wife. It wasn’t the sex it was the connection for me. Unfortunately I was to messed up, stupid, selfish, ____ etc. to go about a healthy way of getting that back. And to think that the main reason we had no connection was much of my own doing. We did have that connection early on. Then what happened (which you eluded to) according to our MC was that my wife wanted to be a stay at home mom and suppressed that desire because I was in graduate school and she was forced to go back to work. She resented me for that. At the same time I was so consumed by getting my degree and all the pressures associated with that that I literally shut down as far as my relationship goes. I would be up till 3AM most nights just doing my school work. We weren’t intimate for months at a time early in our marriage. It was a very rough start. A young woman with a baby and an absent husband who had to work to help support her family. Our MC thinks that had a big impact on our relationship. She was further damaged by a conversation she had with her mom at the time looking for support and understanding her mom told her to suck it up as when you have a baby and a family you have to make sacrifices. Now there wasnt much I could do as I needed to get my degree so I could eventually go on to have a career and support my family but My wife did lose a part of her then. At least that is the theory.

 

 

What do you both love doing independently that's the same?

(Sorry but without the children as a focii - even though they may accompany you both too).

 

I think it's sad when a wife stops adoring her husband.

Admiring him too.

 

We have many things but sometimes now I wonder if they were things she really liked. She is getting her voice back slow but sure now however as Im hearing it more and more. To answer your question… Camping, traveling, the theatre, eating good food… to name a few.

 

It is sad! Though I know a lot of it was my own doing. I never really realized it was something I wanted/needed until recently. Ive since learned that most if not all men really just want to be admired, respected and adored by his wife. I actually got emotional in MC when My counselor mentioned this to my wife. It is true that I would do most anything for her - I just want to know she is proud of me. Unfortunately Ive bunged it all up by some terrible choices… however there is hope as I am doing things now that she has seen and is aware of. She is noticing that I actually do possess qualities still that would make for a good husband after all. There is hope for me yet I tells ya. And regardless of what anyone says I know I can be her hero some day.

 

You'll see Covey's incredible way of teaching us stuff I think you'd wished that YOU learnt as a child.

Instead of learning huge Bible verses and The Lord's Prayer by rote not understanding, my parents could have taught more useful things (oh blasphemy lol) regarding life, love and commitment.

 

Its on order! Ill pardon the blasphemy.

 

Some women expect their Hs to behave towards them as their father did to their mother. Subliminally etc.

And if their H doesn't then he "falls short" in some way.

 

Hence adoration falling off. IDK.

 

It was just like that for Js wife.

It didn't matter WHAT he achieved in his own rights.

And he's an incredibly successful man in 3 fields.

He could never be HER father.

So she absolutely took him for granted. Treated him like a doormat etc.

He DID (maybe still does..btw I should ask him this. If he hadn't proposed this year, I'd have a clearer conscience talking with him at all lol) ACTIVELY SEEK the adoration missing from his M.

 

And he got it seemingly anywhere and everywhere lol!

He's incredibly handsome so women fall at his feet.

Astounding to witness.

I laugh alot at this spectacle.

Cause he doesn't have me doing that omg. No.

 

I digress...just trying to understand WHAT and IF there's yet to be discovered or rediscovered to reignite the adoration stuff for you in your M. Especially now.

 

Hang in there!!

:-))

Lion Heart

 

Ive heard things like that said before (and vs versa about men wanting a wife like their mom - to which Im a major exception to that!)

 

I think my wife does look at her Dad as being a really amazing man and a good husband - even though he himself committed adultery. I do think in some ways she doesn’t think I stack up to him and in some ways to her brother who is a successful surgeon. While I am by many accounts successful (Ill keep my profession a mystery) she hasn’t ever really taken a great interest in what I do yet others are very interested. IT is perhaps something to discuss with her. So Mrs. RO if you are reading this please tell me what you think about this… Or better yet join this forum and share with the group. lol Imagine the intrigue if she actually did…

 

Regarding your last comment. We have been having discussions spurned by our recent MC session of my wife finding her voice again. My wife has hated her job for years. Which is unfortunate as she is really really good at it and looked up to by many. Wins awards etc.. But none the less loathes going to work most days. She works three days a week yet they are tortuous. So part of our counseling is for my wife to rediscover what she wants out of life and where she would like to be/doing. Turns out not working is high on the list. Or at least not working at that job. She wants to stay home and work from home or be a housewife. I work from a home office. It is her opinion that she can then have a chance to allow me to fully lead and provide for our family to which she will then more easily gain the adoration I seek. Might require me picking up a second job but at least Ill make my woman proud lol. Anyway we are exploring those ideas. In truth just taking care of her more than I have in the past and being an actual spiritual leader for our family is what will make her adore me I believe.

 

 

RO how you're describing your BW is so much what I went through too. I was just ALL OVER THE PLACE.

 

And it's unpredictable too.

 

Maybe BW is triggering? Like when she's gone cold she's having mind movies.

Triggers are so crap.

 

Does your BW DISCUSS any triggers she's having with you?

 

LH

 

My wife is naturally all over the place so this just takes it to levels previously unknown to mankind. (I know its my fault Mrs RO. Its my own doing… just saying. I love you)

 

SOOOO Unpredictable. My gosh its unpredictable. Today we are texting and things are so great. Like Im chatting with my best friend again. Then out of the blue she turns on me with a “Its so unfair you did this to me when I would have never done anything like this to you… What is wrong with you?”. But Im learning. I was also able to switch gears.

 

The counselor I spoke today on the phone said that I am her biggest trigger. I guess that makes sense. A big reason she wanted the separation. She also misses me she says and wants me to be with her often. She has an internal battle going on which she admits to. The two parts of her - one that hates me still and the other that loves me are in a constant fight. Other than that we don’t talk about triggers now that you mention it. I know there must be several but she hasn’t told me when she has them.. Good question.

 

IDK IF I WERE you I'd write a ton of letters to BW / maybe I should call her Mrs RO like alieD has.

 

Maybe Mrs RO can open the letter that corresponds (maybe answers) her feelings at that moment.

 

So if she's feeling unloved by you. Or ever wondering...then a letter that has your apology in detail regarding her feelings. Stating your recommitment.

That's a biggie I think. Was for me anyway.

 

Not a bad idea. Ive often thought about writing out an apology that is beyond a simple text or a few words uttered which is what she has had to this point.

 

A trigger may be that Mrs RO felt "what did SHE (indeed they) have that I didn't?" Again it's wise to tell the truth.

You can go back to your own ability to not UNDERSTAND at the time that you still had shyte to work out re FOO issues.

This need to be stating you taking full responsibility and now KNOWING the steps that led you there. Etc.

 

We have done this very thing. Did it again last night actually when I spent the night at home. My wife seems to appreciate it when I talk about my FOO issues and how they used to impact me. Not saying Im 100% worked through them but soooo much better now. It isn’t easy for me to talk about that stuff and It often makes me emotional which I hate but she appreciates the sincerity I think. She told me last night that it helps her feel empathy towards me which in turn gives her a break of being so hurt and upset with me. I found that to be interesting. But yes as you suggested that discussion led to me saying that those issues played a role but I still didn’t have to make the decision I did. Many people with FOO issues don’t. I followed that by saying that I can’t give her a Why answer that would satisfy her as there is no “why” that would ever be good enough to justify what I did. That was followed by an intense hug.

 

 

The FUTURE letter...(it was the FUTURE that freaked me out the most whilst being bomb shelled by WH past affairs and SEEING HIS behaviours more clearly in front of me during R... like dog panting when he saw any female... a sick sight for me).

This is about your FOCUS in all ways on God, Mrs RO, your work...etcetera.

WHAT you believe your futures together will look like.

SO important.

 

Oh my wife has asked me many times exactly that. “What does our future look like in your mind”.. she has asked me to spell out how things would look and what would be different. And as you mention God is front and center.

 

You see when you're THERE in her presence she sees the TWO of you. The one she now knows was with OWs (the ogre I called that lol) AND the one who's talking now (white noise when she only sees the ogre). Her husband trying to talk.

 

Ok this is getting spooky. I think you have channeled my wife’s inner self here. She has also said the same thing. And I feel it too. She sometimes looks at me - like really looks at me. In my eyes for a long period of time. As if she is trying to figure out who I am in her presence. Its a little weird after about 5 minutes of that but I don’t tell her that. (Mrs. RO. I don’t mean weird in a bad way). She is desperate to know if I am sincere and I realize this.

 

 

 

When you are....NEVER say "that's all in the past" (RO that's what abusers always say!).

You need to think about what you want to say when she's battling her mind.

My suggestion is something like this...look at her in the eyes, close if you can and say "You KNOW I love you. You know I'm sincere. This work I've been doing has helped cast off those things that made me who I was. I'm free of that and will ALWAYS know how destructive that all was to YOU, the last person I'd ever want to hurt.."

Our future IS GOOD because as God is my witness lol I'LL do all in my power and his to give you everything I have.

 

Noooo Id never say that. First of all I don’t believe that and second Ive read to many things relating to infidelity and the lists never to say to a BS. The amount of things I’ve read and youtube videos Ive watched is staggering but it has been so helpful not just in the way to help my wife but to better understand what I’ve done to this woman Im supposed to love. I have said very similar things to what you say here.

 

RO IF THE ogre wins in her mind for a sustained period of time (when she's cold or triggering) then the M is over.

 

ExWH had a WINDOW OF TIME to work REALLY REALLY hard and fix this M.

He was too broken.

 

The ogre won’t win.. Im to determined to let that happen. Ive taken proving my love for her to new levels. I have a morning flight to catch tomorrow (I need to get to bed) for a meeting but Im going to get up a couple hours early just so I can sneak into the house and do something nice for her (she really likes bible verses and Ive been buying them and putting them on the walls - can’t remember if I mentioned that here or not). She might wake up and thats fine but I want to make sure she knows she is my first priority. So anyway..

 

You are not. You may have been once. Now you are getting the answers because you're finally asking the QUESTIONS.

 

Nope.. Im as solid as I remember ever being actually.

 

I know this weekend affair recovery program is very expensive BUT CAN YOU PLAN SOME really fun activities together as a family and as a couple?

Bike riding?? IDK nature walking?

Picnics?

Alone / together.

For reconnection and hopefully the ogre can slowly disappear in her mind and the GREAT GUY can win.

 

Ughhhh it's so crap. I hope these things help.

I'm off to feed the chickens lol.

 

Lion Heart

 

At the weekend affair recovery thing? nope.. its like 12 hours a day of intense therapy. No time for anything other than major intense healing going on I assume. But she is opening up more and more to doing things together. She asked me today if I ended my 3 month apartment lease early if I would not have to pay my last month. Although she followed that up by asking me if I had to stay longer if I could renew the lease. lol

 

Chickens? My wife loves chickens. I had them growing up. I hate them unless they are on my plate. My wife however seems to think they would bring lots of joy to her life. If only our HOA agreed.

[Regretful one]

It makes me sad. But I can't dwell on sad in recovery. It happened. It can't be erased or taken back. I have to move forward from here. And to be honest, I think we are going to have a better relationship than we did pre-affair. I'm glad that we will have the opportunity to do that. And I'm glad we sort of got forced into really looking deeper at our relationship and putting in the work to focus on it.

 

It doesn't take away the hurt and disappointment and complete crushing of my soul but I'm trying to "find the good" in the situation. Always focus on the good

 

Mrs RO may not want to hear this....and I'm sure she doesn't feel this away and I am in no way diminishing anything she feels....but in my eyes, she's blessed to have a husband that is so committed to recovery as you are. Committed to understanding and giving her what she needs and taking responsibility for your bad choices. My husband is there now, but we did a year of push/pull that completely tore my guts out. So Mrs RO, if you are reading this please look for the good in the crappy situation. It may not seem there is any good sometimes but you can always find something.

 

Still praying for you.

 

Thank you very much for saying such nice things! And I do have faith that through this a better marriage can result. My wife agrees but its still hard to see that far off into the distance for obvious reasons being only 10 weeks past D-Day. It is a one day at a time thing for sure.

 

A quote I came across - not sure I mentioned it here yet or not but it goes with what you are saying: “We have to give up hope for a better past”…

 

 

 

 

Oh and movies. I've watched "Stuck in Love" on Netflix probably about 40 times this last year. More my situation than yours but man that movie spoke to me. Gave me hope to hold on when all seemed lost ...that love and family can find a way back to eachother no matter how done it seems to be.

 

Don’t think Ive seen it… Will need to look for it.