Online dating is so depressing

[NJ123]

Think a little. A decent looking woman online has 97938723 messaging her. She's not gonna waste her time talking to all those guys, so she creates a little list in her head to weed out many of them. You get weeded out. Why should she talk to you when she has guys 5'10 or taller messaging her all the time?

 

In person, it can be different, but that depends on the people. Maybe you are short, but really funny. Maybe you just tick all of her other little boxes so much that she doesn't even mind that you are short. Maybe you see her every day, and she just finds herself being drawn to you.

 

This doesn't mean that if you stop looking online, you are suddenly gonna get a ton of dates. It's just a better idea than what you are doing. The fact that you sit here lamenting your online dating life, but refuse to move on with your life just creates a frustrating experience for those trying to help you here.

 

Where am I going to meet people in person though? I've never in my life saw a guy hit on a woman outside of a bar/club setting. I've only seen it once at my job where some guy hit on one of my co-workers but he knew her through someone already so she wasn't exactly a complete stranger. Where are people meeting their gfs/wives if it's not through online dating these days?

[Nightwriter]

I'm pretty much 5'6" without shoes & close to 5'7" with.

 

Wat? This whole discussion was about 5'6"? I thought you were like 5'4" or something. That's not tall but I know a ton of 5'6"-5'7" guys who don't seem to have a problem getting women.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Nightwriter

[Blanco]

Wat? This whole discussion was about 5'6"? I thought you were like 5'4" or something. That's not tall but there I know a ton of 5'6"-5'7" guys who don't seem to have a problem getting women.

 

Like I've said (multiple times), the OP's height is NOT his biggest problem with procuring dates. It's probably a factor to some degree in the same sense that I don't look like Tom Hardy, so I'm not getting female attention like he would.

 

Ultimately, the height thing (and the income thing) are strawman arguments.

[Blanco]

Where am I going to meet people in person though? I've never in my life saw a guy hit on a woman outside of a bar/club setting. I've only seen it once at my job where some guy hit on one of my co-workers but he knew her through someone already so she wasn't exactly a complete stranger. Where are people meeting their gfs/wives if it's not through online dating these days?

 

Dude, we already had this discussion. I mean, at this point, we've had multiple discussions about the same subjects in this thread, but this is one I distinctly remember. If you aren't seeing this, then you simply aren't getting out enough.

 

If your life is predominantly hang out in your parents' home posting on Loveshack and intermittently going to your job, then of course you're not going to see this.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Wat? This whole discussion was about 5'6"? I thought you were like 5'4" or something. That's not tall but I know a ton of 5'6"-5'7" guys who don't seem to have a problem getting women.

 

So what if a guy who is 5'4" is reading this?

 

Or 5'1" for that matter?

 

Then what happens?

 

Well, height isn't the problem for OP, but sorry it is for YOU.

[NJ123]

Dude, we already had this discussion. I mean, at this point, we've had multiple discussions about the same subjects in this thread, but this is one I distinctly remember. If you aren't seeing this, then you simply aren't getting out enough.

 

If your life is predominantly hang out in your parents' home posting on Loveshack and intermittently going to your job, then of course you're not going to see this.

 

Where I am whether it's at the gym, at a grocery store, at a clothing store, even the mall I've never seen a woman hit on a guy before in front of my eyes outside of a bar/club setting. Everyone either keeps to themselves or is with their own group of friends or with their boyfriends/husbands.

[BaileyB]

Height clearly isn't the problem here.

 

It's very rigid black and white thinking and a very self defeating attitude.

 

Yeah, it's hard to meet people and form relationships sometimes. But, there are opportunities everywhere.

[Nightwriter]

So what if a guy who is 5'4" is reading this?

 

Or 5'1" for that matter?

 

Then what happens?

 

Well, height isn't the problem for OP, but sorry it is for YOU.

 

If he were 5'1", he'd probably get even less women than if he were 5'6". So that guy should look for women who are willing to date 5'1" guys and don't care about the others. That's just life. People sure are touchy about height.

[NJ123]

If he were 5'1", he'd probably get even less women than if he were 5'6". So that guy should look for women who are willing to date 5'1" guys and don't care about the others. That's just life. People sure are touchy about height.

 

As I'm going to say again, this whole height thing was only brought on due to the whole match.com fiasco where the vast majority have the preference on there for a guy that's taller than me. And some in here were saying I should spend my money just to get rejected over & over again since I'm not in their preferences.

[Nightwriter]

As I'm going to say again, this whole height thing was only brought on due to the whole match.com fiasco where the vast majority have the preference on there for a guy that's taller than me. And some in here were saying I should spend my money just to get rejected over & over again since I'm not in their preferences.

 

There have been correlative studies that greater height positively affects one's career advancement. And likely similar studies with dating. Those are just the facts and is life.

 

But you can't do anything about it so you just have to make do with what you got the best you can. Sure you can complain about it on the Internet, but it won't change anything. I've said it already, but if you have hobbies, go join groups with that hobby. You'll meet friends, some maybe even women, and maybe, if you have some wit, you might hit it off with one. But please don't hit on a girl at the grocery store. You'll get slapped by a cabbage.

[normal person]

I am funny when I'm with my friends or texting with them. This is just a serious topic though so why would I type out funny replies in here?

 

You could be critiqued and get help with it, that's what the forum is for, right? Maybe, just maybe, you're not as funny as you think you are?

 

Everyone would just be like what the heck is going on with this guy.

 

No offense, but I'm pretty confident everyone here has been thinking that since at least page 5.

 

Where I am whether it's at the gym, at a grocery store, at a clothing store, even the mall I've never seen a woman hit on a guy before in front of my eyes outside of a bar/club setting.

 

So why not go to a bar/club?

 

As I'm going to say again, this whole height thing was only brought on due to the whole match.com fiasco where the vast majority have the preference on there for a guy that's taller than me. And some in here were saying I should spend my money just to get rejected over & over again since I'm not in their preferences.

 

I'm only 5'10", I get a good amount of interest from girls who clearly specify they're looking for someone taller than that. Just because they have it in there doesn't mean it's steadfast, it could very well be a fluid preference. For example, I prefer blonde girls. That is to say, my eye is drawn to them. I have an inclination towards them. Is every girl I go out with blonde? No. Do I think they're better? No. But I am drawn to them more often. That's it.

 

If genuine (hey, don't want to doubt you but I've never seen anything like this in OLD terms before) then you must have the best written profile for a man that there is. An endless stream of women writing to you off their own back actually engaging you (no 'hi ' bull****) is literally the holy grail of online dating for men because it is so unheard of outside of profiles by dudes that look like a chiseled Adonis. I think this is important to bear in mind when dealing with the scepticism/cynicism of others in this thread who have had the total opposite experience.

 

I really just took the common sense approach and wrote the profile I would want to read if I was someone else. I just thought about all the things I hated about the throwaway profiles I saw and wrote the opposite. And to be fair, there are plenty of "hi" messages, but the screenshot is of my inbox filtered for "funny profile" and "Captions." So they aren't all gems.

 

Although all that being said for your method to work you must be way above average looking.

I'm probably not entirely hideous, but you never know.

 

I notice you used a puppy pic- I always thought that was a bit cliché and cynical but people seem to be having some success with it so perhaps I need to borrow my mate's mutt for a few hours!

 

Just make sure you give it a good caption...

 

So yeah, there is some interesting info here but I do feel that you are being hard on some of the others in this thread. Take it from me who has tried countless profile revisions and has a witty writing style (according to people I trust as being impartial) and gets dates yet never gets messaged first: your profile (and most likely your looks) are top tier and not everyone can be top tier in online dating. So for the rest of us we are either going to disbelieve you or get frustrated that you have some kind of X factor that try as we might we can't emulate or do so in a way that is congruent to us.

 

What I've always espoused in these threads is that you absolutely cannot be average if you want success. It's digital Darwinism. Survival of the fittest. Granted you can only control so many things about yourself, but if you're not doing anything about the things you can control, then I don't have much sympathy. You can ascend above average with hard work, effort, and just using common sense. There's no secret to what women like. So if you want women that badly, just get those things. In theory, it couldn't be simpler.

 

Am I in good shape? Yes. But I'm 5'10", 150 lbs. Not exactly Hercules, nor will I ever be, but I'm in the best shape a short, lean person can be in because I go the gym 6 days a week and have a controlled diet. Am I successful? Yes. Because I invested countless hours in learning a business (even though I suck at math/numbers) and finding a niche for it in my free time while everyone else was sitting around watching TV. Even when I did watch TV as a kid, I absorbed the good parts (jokes from The Simpsons, Seinfeld, etc) like an encyclopedia, developed a good sense of humor (which lead to an award and a brief career in TV/film before I realized I hated Hollywood), which I then pragmatically applied to my own very well edited profile. I try and learn something from everything I do (including these threads and most interactions with people), I don't waste time or opportunities. I deliberately choose to live in the middle of the most densely populated, female-skewed city on the continent because it maximizes interactions, chance meetings, and odds in general. I think about the times when most women will be online (weeknights between 9 and 11, especially when it's raining) and I use boosts at those times to optimize my viewership. I'm always thinking of new angles and ideas to make life as efficient and as productive as possible. Etc, etc, etc. And it's fun. I don't just do it for women, I do it because personal growth, achieving things, solving problems, not wasting time, and liberating yourself makes you feel great. Women are just the spoils of war.

 

It's not rocket science, it's just common sense, working harder than everyone else, and adapting to the environment. It's not the smartest who survive, it's the most willing to adapt. In many of these threads, the guys don't want to do any of those things. So I can't always empathize with them, and they think I'm a lunatic.

Edited September 23, 2016 by normal person

[AceCutty]

C'mon, guys. If you read back I clearly said "I think it's a bad idea." It's an opinion -- as in, I don't do it -- not a law or instruction, and it was given as an example in reply to someone describing a situation where men send hundreds of emails (not one who's "already not"). And it wasn't even the point I was trying to make. It was just the launching pad for the point, which I might as well reiterate now:

 

I thought we were talking about dating in general, not exclusively online dating.

 

I have no idea how to be successful online so I will defer to the experts on this one. I do know how to have success in person though.

 

If you're doing something hundreds of times with no positive results, and you can't come to the conclusion that it might be wise to change or adapt your methodology or something about yourself, maybe it's not the website's "fault," considering plenty of people do figure it out.

 

I agree that there is a certainly a method for success online. I've met guys over the years that went from absolutely no success online to tons of success. They spent a ton of time fixing up their profiles and pictures. I have no idea whether or not they messaged women or women messaged them though. From what they told me, it varied from person to person.

 

So, if we're going to have this red herring discussion, admittedly there are a lot of variables here, but the point is: you can gain an advantage by not approaching/messaging/whatever first, and you can really taint your own image and shoot yourself in the foot by approaching/messaging the wrong way, which includes "often," "cluelessly," and "without invitation." I'm not saying that's the case all the time, but let's not act like it isn't a big factor. I have demonstrably a good method/theory in contrast to the guy who sends hundreds of messages and yields zilch.

 

Again, speaking solely on in-person meeting: If you don't approach, you won't succeed because, in most cases, they won't approach you. They may stand next to you. They may look at you. They may even ask you a random question. But they will almost never approach you.

 

Did you ever consider the possibility that people can be multi-dimensional, not appreciated for one single thing about them, and that regardless of what they look like they might have other appealing qualities?

 

My profile is funny. I made sure I had one of the funniest, most interesting, different, profiles anyone has ever read. http://s13.postimg.org/itawsuspz/funnyprofile.jpg

 

Same with my photo captions: http://s10.postimg.org/kjimu17sp/captions.jpg

 

So maybe things aren't as you think. This is nuts. I post in here as one of a handful of people who has figured out the things so many of you are struggling with, share my insight and knowledge for free, and people still want to try and discredit me and write me off. Can we get past this now? I know what I'm talking about.

 

Yes, but OLD is heavily looks and stats based. I'm sure you could be successful without those things, but you're fighting an uphill battle.

 

If that works for you, great. There's no reason not to do it. Personally I'm not too inclined towards the "he likes me, and even though I was previously ambivalent about him, I guess I'll see where this goes because having a relationship is better than not having one" line of thought, which is what that kind of seems like. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but I think that's a shaky foundation. Being with someone who likes and appreciates you from the start is probably a much better footing, in my opinion.

 

For me, personally, I can count on one hand how many women were super interested in me from the start. It just doesn't really happen to me. However, once they are into me, they tend to be REALLY into me. I've dated many women that were lukewarm at the beginning that I ultimately ended up breaking up with.

 

While there is something to be said about the "agency" of it, reveling in the privilege of choosing who you approach is essentially meaningless because you don't get to choose who likes you back, and that's all that matters. And while it may not be "needy or desperate" per se, I still think it's safe to say that whoever messages/desires more/asks/approaches shown (an albeit small) vulnerability/weakness, and has empowered the other person to be able to make a decision about them. I prefer the dominant position so I'll stick to the high ground and not gamble by walking up to randoms and subconsciously broadcasting the fact that no other woman wants to talk to me. I consider the psychology of the situation. It's much easier to pick from the women who who you know do like you than to do some song and dance to try and win over the ones who probably don't.

 

I disagree.

 

Here's an example of this. I moved to a new city a few years back and didn't know anybody. I went to a club on New Years completely alone. I consistently made approaches all night. What ended up happening was that people liked me and some women REALLY liked me. It got to the point that I was dancing with one girl (who was trying to get my number) while another one (who I ended up going home with that night) walked by me, petting my hair.

 

By your definition, I should have been begging for those women's interests because I approached them. No woman that night gave me any signals whatsoever. So what did I do? I created something out of nothing. That's what a real man does.

 

If you just wait to get your signal (like your email, wink, like on OLD), you're home free. No woman is going to give you a signal and then not be happy you're talking to her. If you don't get a signal, the other method is to come into contact circumstantially, then work your magic. The OLD equivalent of this is use a top spot or something that puts you in everyone's search so they can't ignore you.

 

The only times where I've ever waited for a signal from women to do anything ultimately led to failure. Any time that I initiated and moved things along, things typically went pretty well.

 

It's just something that works great for me. If you don't like it, that's fine. Stick to messaging people, if that's what works for you. But a little open-mindedness might do some good, too.

 

Do you, bro.

 

But I'm not the one replying to a thread from a guy that is clearly struggling and encouraging him not to approach.

[AceCutty]

Think a little. A decent looking woman online has 97938723 messaging her. She's not gonna waste her time talking to all those guys, so she creates a little list in her head to weed out many of them. You get weeded out. Why should she talk to you when she has guys 5'10 or taller messaging her all the time?

 

In person, it can be different, but that depends on the people. Maybe you are short, but really funny. Maybe you just tick all of her other little boxes so much that she doesn't even mind that you are short. Maybe you see her every day, and she just finds herself being drawn to you.

 

This doesn't mean that if you stop looking online, you are suddenly gonna get a ton of dates. It's just a better idea than what you are doing. The fact that you sit here lamenting your online dating life, but refuse to move on with your life just creates a frustrating experience for those trying to help you here.

 

Well, I mean it is understandable that he feels this way. He is severely limited in a way that most people are not because of something completely out of his control and something that he can't fix.

 

Sure, there are others out there that are worse off (those with disfigurements and diseases), but not many. I think people on this thread should cut the guy some slack.

[AceCutty]

You could be critiqued and get help with it, that's what the forum is for, right? Maybe, just maybe, you're not as funny as you think you are?

 

 

 

No offense, but I'm pretty confident everyone here has been thinking that since at least page 5.

 

 

 

So why not go to a bar/club?

 

 

 

I'm only 5'10", I get a good amount of interest from girls who clearly specify they're looking for someone taller than that. Just because they have it in there doesn't mean it's steadfast, it could very well be a fluid preference. For example, I prefer blonde girls. That is to say, my eye is drawn to them. I have an inclination towards them. Is every girl I go out with blonde? No. Do I think they're better? No. But I am drawn to them more often. That's it.

 

 

 

I really just took the common sense approach and wrote the profile I would want to read if I was someone else. I just thought about all the things I hated about the throwaway profiles I saw and wrote the opposite. And to be fair, there are plenty of "hi" messages, but the screenshot is of my inbox filtered for "funny profile" and "Captions." So they aren't all gems.

 

 

I'm probably not entirely hideous, but you never know.

 

 

 

Just make sure you give it a good caption...

 

 

 

What I've always espoused in these threads is that you absolutely cannot be average if you want success. It's digital Darwinism. Survival of the fittest. Granted you can only control so many things about yourself, but if you're not doing anything about the things you can control, then I don't have much sympathy. You can ascend above average with hard work, effort, and just using common sense. There's no secret to what women like. So if you want women that badly, just get those things. In theory, it couldn't be simpler.

 

Am I in good shape? Yes. But I'm 5'10", 150 lbs. Not exactly Hercules, nor will I ever be, but I'm in the best shape a short, lean person can be in because I go the gym 6 days a week and have a controlled diet. Am I successful? Yes. Because I invested countless hours in learning a business (even though I suck at math/numbers) and finding a niche for it in my free time while everyone else was sitting around watching TV. Even when I did watch TV as a kid, I absorbed the good parts (jokes from The Simpsons, Seinfeld, etc) like an encyclopedia, developed a good sense of humor (which lead to an award and a brief career in TV/film before I realized I hated Hollywood), which I then pragmatically applied to my own very well edited profile. I try and learn something from everything I do (including these threads and most interactions with people), I don't waste time or opportunities. I deliberately choose to live in the middle of the most densely populated, female-skewed city on the continent because it maximizes interactions, chance meetings, and odds in general. I think about the times when most women will be online (weeknights between 9 and 11, especially when it's raining) and I use boosts at those times to optimize my viewership. I'm always thinking of new angles and ideas to make life as efficient and as productive as possible. Etc, etc, etc. And it's fun. I don't just do it for women, I do it because personal growth, achieving things, solving problems, not wasting time, and liberating yourself makes you feel great. Women are just the spoils of war.

 

It's not rocket science, it's just common sense, working harder than everyone else, and adapting to the environment. It's not the smartest who survive, it's the most willing to adapt. In many of these threads, the guys don't want to do any of those things. So I can't always empathize with them, and they think I'm a lunatic.

 

Dude, 5'10" is not short. As a short guy (like OP), I take offense to men that are average height, but claim to be short. It's not cool. You have not had to overcome the obstacles that I have in life because of my height.

 

Again, you are average height and most likely good-looking. You are PRIVILEGED, which is why you are successful. Don't make the mistake of attributing your success to hard work. Some of us have had to truly work hard because we were not blessed with the genetics that you inherited.

 

Geeze, talk about narcissism.

Edited September 23, 2016 by AceCutty

[NJ123]

You could be critiqued and get help with it, that's what the forum is for, right? Maybe, just maybe, you're not as funny as you think you are?

 

 

 

No offense, but I'm pretty confident everyone here has been thinking that since at least page 5.

 

 

 

So why not go to a bar/club?

 

 

 

I'm only 5'10", I get a good amount of interest from girls who clearly specify they're looking for someone taller than that. Just because they have it in there doesn't mean it's steadfast, it could very well be a fluid preference. For example, I prefer blonde girls. That is to say, my eye is drawn to them. I have an inclination towards them. Is every girl I go out with blonde? No. Do I think they're better? No. But I am drawn to them more often. That's it.

 

 

 

I really just took the common sense approach and wrote the profile I would want to read if I was someone else. I just thought about all the things I hated about the throwaway profiles I saw and wrote the opposite. And to be fair, there are plenty of "hi" messages, but the screenshot is of my inbox filtered for "funny profile" and "Captions." So they aren't all gems.

 

 

I'm probably not entirely hideous, but you never know.

 

 

 

Just make sure you give it a good caption...

 

 

 

What I've always espoused in these threads is that you absolutely cannot be average if you want success. It's digital Darwinism. Survival of the fittest. Granted you can only control so many things about yourself, but if you're not doing anything about the things you can control, then I don't have much sympathy. You can ascend above average with hard work, effort, and just using common sense. There's no secret to what women like. So if you want women that badly, just get those things. In theory, it couldn't be simpler.

 

Am I in good shape? Yes. But I'm 5'10", 150 lbs. Not exactly Hercules, nor will I ever be, but I'm in the best shape a short, lean person can be in because I go the gym 6 days a week and have a controlled diet. Am I successful? Yes. Because I invested countless hours in learning a business (even though I suck at math/numbers) and finding a niche for it in my free time while everyone else was sitting around watching TV. Even when I did watch TV as a kid, I absorbed the good parts (jokes from The Simpsons, Seinfeld, etc) like an encyclopedia, developed a good sense of humor (which lead to an award and a brief career in TV/film before I realized I hated Hollywood), which I then pragmatically applied to my own very well edited profile. I try and learn something from everything I do (including these threads and most interactions with people), I don't waste time or opportunities. I deliberately choose to live in the middle of the most densely populated, female-skewed city on the continent because it maximizes interactions, chance meetings, and odds in general. I think about the times when most women will be online (weeknights between 9 and 11, especially when it's raining) and I use boosts at those times to optimize my viewership. I'm always thinking of new angles and ideas to make life as efficient and as productive as possible. Etc, etc, etc. And it's fun. I don't just do it for women, I do it because personal growth, achieving things, solving problems, not wasting time, and liberating yourself makes you feel great. Women are just the spoils of war.

 

It's not rocket science, it's just common sense, working harder than everyone else, and adapting to the environment. It's not the smartest who survive, it's the most willing to adapt. In many of these threads, the guys don't want to do any of those things. So I can't always empathize with them, and they think I'm a lunatic.

 

It seems anything I say you never even believe so why do you even bother? I make my friends laugh a lot when I'm with them or text with them. Why don't you believe that? As I said, I guarantee if we actually met in real life we would get along just fine. I have no enemies or get into arguments with anyone in real life or anything.

 

And bars/clubs just aren't my thing. I just have never really enjoyed myself when at one unless I was really drunk but I get really sick the following day after drinking a lot so it's almost not worth it. I'd only get drunk again on very special occasions at this point like if I was at a wedding.

 

And they don't turn you down because 5'10" is above average height where in shoes you're pretty much right near 6 foot where they couldn't tell the difference. So you personally have nothing to worry about in terms of online dating preferences. The only ones that would turn you down are the ones that are extremely picky to the point where they only exclusively want a guy that's 6 foot or taller where even an inch or so is a deal breaker.

[AceCutty]

It seems anything I say you never even believe so why do you even bother? I make my friends laugh a lot when I'm with them or text with them. Why don't you believe that? As I said, I guarantee if we actually met in real life we would get along just fine. I have no enemies or get into arguments with anyone in real life or anything.

 

And bars/clubs just aren't my thing. I just have never really enjoyed myself when at one unless I was really drunk but I get really sick the following day after drinking a lot so it's almost not worth it. I'd only get drunk again on very special occasions at this point like if I was at a wedding.

 

And they don't turn you down because 5'10" is above average height where in shoes you're pretty much right near 6 foot where they couldn't tell the difference. So you personally have nothing to worry about in terms of online dating preferences. The only ones that would turn you down are the ones that are extremely picky to the point where they only exclusively want a guy that's 6 foot or taller where even an inch or so is a deal breaker.

 

It's bizarre to me that so many people here think that height alone cannot possible be a reason for a man to struggle in dating.

 

As a fellow short guy, I completely understand where you're coming from and why you're frustrated. Short men face a ton of struggles and a lot of discrimination that is not acknowledged by the general public. It's sad, really.

[normal person]

I thought we were talking about dating in general, not exclusively online dating.

 

I have no idea how to be successful online so I will defer to the experts on this one. I do know how to have success in person though.

 

I think it has a lot of real life applications too, but everyone has different luck, I suppose.

 

I agree that there is a certainly a method for success online. I've met guys over the years that went from absolutely no success online to tons of success. They spent a ton of time fixing up their profiles and pictures. I have no idea whether or not they messaged women or women messaged them though. From what they told me, it varied from person to person.

 

I'm not surprised. Good for them.

 

Again, speaking solely on in-person meeting: If you don't approach, you won't succeed because, in most cases, they won't approach you. They may stand next to you. They may look at you. They may even ask you a random question. But they will almost never approach you.

 

They do, though. And it's often something as innocuous as "I like your jacket." So remember to dress nice. You need "bait." You need a talking point for them. If it's not nice clothes, it could be that they see you doing something interesting (telling a joke to friends who laugh uproariously, talking about something really interesting within earshot of them, etc).

 

But I'll concede that most of the time, a woman's MO isn't to go up and speak to you, most simply are socialized to be passive. Usually, the method is to get you to notice her. All you have to do is recognize the signal, and yes, it can be difficult because women are more subtle than men. She'll glance at you, look away, and glance back. She'll be near you when she doesn't have to. She'll bump into you. Etc. Things men would never consider signals can be considered giant demonstrations in their eyes. Not to get into nomenclature, but this could be considered an "approach" from a woman if you're observant enough.

 

Yes, but OLD is heavily looks and stats based. I'm sure you could be successful without those things, but you're fighting an uphill battle.

 

Probably. 'Better fight hard.

 

For me, personally, I can count on one hand how many women were super interested in me from the start. It just doesn't really happen to me. However, once they are into me, they tend to be REALLY into me. I've dated many women that were lukewarm at the beginning that I ultimately ended up breaking up with.

 

Whatever works for you. I don't doubt you, but the processes themselves sound so alien to me in context of how I think things happen. Would be interested to hear about it if you wanted to elaborate.

 

I disagree.

 

Here's an example of this. I moved to a new city a few years back and didn't know anybody. I went to a club on New Years completely alone. I consistently made approaches all night. What ended up happening was that people liked me and some women REALLY liked me. It got to the point that I was dancing with one girl (who was trying to get my number) while another one (who I ended up going home with that night) walked by me, petting my hair.

 

By your definition, I should have been begging for those women's interests because I approached them. No woman that night gave me any signals whatsoever. So what did I do? I created something out of nothing. That's what a real man does.

 

Well, you've done it well. I don't imagine everyone else described was as good as you. What I didn't expound on (my posts are too long as it is) is that for me, I think there's all sorts of right ways (which you have cracked) and wrong ways (the kind which I'm vehemently against) to approach, if you're going to do it. Long story short, to me, the "right" way to do is to get in their immediate vicinity, ignore her at first, then find something circumstantial to comment on (not overt sexual pressure) to her or even someone nearby (hopefully something funny), parlay that into something about her and how she feels, form an emotional bond, empathize with her if you agree/challenge her if you don't, let the conversation run its course, then, if she's all she's cracked up to be, let her somehow know she's earned your affection, as if it's something you, the (supposedly) empowered one, granted her rather than something she already had. That way you don't appear to be lowering yourself before her, you maintain your status. It's a little bit of a trick but there's no harm in it. That's what I'd do, if I was into that.

 

But your way works too, hah.

 

Do you, bro. But I'm not the one replying to a thread from a guy that is clearly struggling and encouraging him not to approach.

 

As described above, there are right ways and very wrong ways, in my eyes. But that wasn't really the topic so it never got unpacked. Anyways, if anyone was curious, now they know.

[NJ123]

It's bizarre to me that so many people here think that height alone cannot possible be a reason for a man to struggle in dating.

 

As a fellow short guy, I completely understand where you're coming from and why you're frustrated. Short men face a ton of struggles and a lot of discrimination that is not acknowledged by the general public. It's sad, really.

 

I feel like my only chance to ever meet someone is somewhere in person since online dating isn't good for shorter guys.

[AceCutty]

I feel like my only chance to ever meet someone is somewhere in person since online dating isn't good for shorter guys.

 

I think that's probably your best bet.

 

A friend of mine that's 5'5" did well online. But he exaggerated to 5'7/5'8 (don't remember which) and wore lifts on his dates. OLD worked out REALLY well for him in the end. It took him a few months of relentlessly working on it though.

[AceCutty]

 

Whatever works for you. I don't doubt you, but the processes themselves sound so alien to me in context of how I think things happen. Would be interested to hear about it if you wanted to elaborate.

 

Well, my stories are anecdotal. So keep that in mind.

 

My ex-girlfriend stood me up on our first date (though we knew each other from school). She just didn't show. Eventually, I was able to get her out. We started dating and she was crazy about me after a while. I broke it off with her.

 

Another one is a married couple that I know. He cold approached her at a gym and she was lukewarm about him (she even told me this years later). In the end, she went out with him and things worked out. It turns out that he ended up putting off marriage for a long time and she had to push it.

 

I've seen and experienced many situations where the man is way more interested at the beginning and then things turn around as the relationship progresses.

 

Also, in my experience, if things start off really hot and heavy, they peter out pretty quickly.

[NJ123]

I think that's probably your best bet.

 

A friend of mine that's 5'5" did well online. But he exaggerated to 5'7/5'8 (don't remember which) and wore lifts on his dates. OLD worked out REALLY well for him in the end. It took him a few months of relentlessly working on it though.

 

True, I guess if I ever went back on OKCupid it would maybe be a little white lie if I put I'm 5'7" which I'm literally right below it with shoes on. But right now all I have is Tinder & Bumble that I use. I deleted OKCupid yesterday & Plenty of Fish last week. I just don't know if I want to go back on those sites again. And I'm definitely not paying money with the odds completely stacked against me, it would almost be like the equivalent of gambling my money away in Vegas.

[normal person]

Dude, 5'10" is not short. As a short guy (like OP), I take offense to men that are average height, but claim to be short. It's not cool. You have not had to overcome the obstacles that I have in life because of my height.

 

Again, you are average height and most likely good-looking. You are PRIVILEGED, which is why you are successful. Don't make the mistake of attributing your success to hard work. Some of us have had to truly work hard because we were not blessed with the genetics that you inherited.

 

Geeze, talk about narcissism.

 

I've found 5'10" is right around what most women would consider a cut off. Definitely not a gift. Average at best. My male friends are all taller than me. It's not the end of the world, but it's not particularly easy for me either. There are plenty of women out of my league just based on height and their desire to wear heels. It's emasculating even at my height, more than you realize. If I was shorter, I'd still be doing the same things and probably be even more motivated. That being said, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a woman who knew how tall 5'10" (or whatever the height is) is in real life. Also, attributing success to the fact that I'm 5'10" rather than anything else I've done is just ridiculous, sorry. There are plenty of taller guys who struggle too. Height is nice, I'm sure, but I doubt it's a magic bullet.

 

It seems anything I say you never even believe so why do you even bother?

 

Pretty convenient excuse. I'm not the one doubting everything you say, I'm the one asking you what you're doing to rectify the situation.

 

I feel like my only chance to ever meet someone is somewhere in person since online dating isn't good for shorter guys.

 

And bars/clubs just aren't my thing. I just have never really enjoyed myself when at one unless I was really drunk but I get really sick the following day after drinking a lot so it's almost not worth it. I'd only get drunk again on very special occasions at this point like if I was at a wedding.

 

So you feel your only chance to ever meet someone is in person, yet you don't want to go to the one place most likely for you to meet someone, where women are looking to meet men and uninhibited because it "isn't your thing." You could very easily go and have just or drink or two and not get drink, or just drink water.

 

But you'd rather not step out of your comfort zone, or do anything you don't like doing. Sounds about right. That's about all of this thread I can handle, then. Best of luck.

Edited September 23, 2016 by normal person

[AceCutty]

I've found 5'10" is right around what most women would consider a cut off. Definitely not a gift. Average at best. My male friends are all taller than me. It's not the end of the world, but it's not particularly easy for me either. There are plenty of women out of my league just based on height and their desire to wear heels. It's emasculating even at my height, more than you realize. If I was shorter, I'd still be doing the same things and probably be even more motivated. That being said, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a woman who knew how tall 5'10" (or whatever the height is) is in real life. Also, attributing success to the fact that I'm 5'10" rather than anything else I've done is just ridiculous, sorry. There are plenty of taller guys who struggle too. Height is nice, I'm sure, but I doubt it's a magic bullet.

 

I'm not saying it's a magic bullet, but even you say that it's a bit of a struggle to even be average height.

 

Now, just multiply that by 10 and you are where we are.

 

And one other thing: you say that you would be more motivated. For me, it's definitely been a mental struggle to stay motivated. Although I have had success with women (as described above), it deeply bothers me that most women will only date me despite something that's a core part of who I am.

[Blanco]

Re: Being funny

 

It's been my experience that most people aren't that funny. Some people are hilarious; others have their moments to shine. But I would say that the average person isn't all that funny. That doesn't mean they are incapable of identifying humor or thinking something's funny. It also doesn't mean that they aren't capable of reeling off an amusing line now and again. On the whole, though, I don't think you could label the average person consistently funny.

 

The problem, of course, is that I've met very few people in my life who don't think they're at least pretty funny. Humor is more an innate trait, too, so I think it's a slippery slope for someone who's not funny to really try to be funnier. That just ends with some really awkward moments.

 

If you're not that funny, that's not the end of the world. You can still have a sense of humor about things; not take yourself or some things so seriously. The world needs as many people like that as we can get.

[ZA Dater]

This thread made me think about a few things, as did the events of yesterday the good and the bad ones.

 

OLD: Yes it actually can work provided one moves away from a specific thing, the more specific the harder it is to find.

 

Dating: I think deep down you need to look hard at yourself, what you are good and what you aren't good at, write down that list. The issue seems to be that abject disappointment had a profound effect on people. My issue is I am chronically lonely and lack a social life so to speak which then sets back my dating ability because intrinsically girls ask why I am such a loner.

 

The thing about life is bad sometimes blinds you to the good. Like the OP I would love to date an ideal at this time its not working but it doesn't mean it wont in the future, instant gratification is really part of dating. For me I am lucky to have a few people in my life I genuinely care about and that's a gift I think, all at various times provide support and many just make my life a richer place, some do this without knowing it.

 

OP, sit back and list ten things you are lucky to have, ten experiences you covet and think really what is important.

 

In my opinion OP, you need to be thankful more before you can ask for more.

 

Humour I don't think is the be all and end all but confidence is, its hugely difficult to muster but you (and I) need to try exhibit more of it.

 

I can tell you categorically if I could post a picture of the girl I like most here, 9/10 guys wouldn't like what they saw, she is average at best, its fine to shoot for the stars looks wise but I have models sitting in front of me who while nice people didn't make me feel like this average person does.

 

You really need to get out of this dark space, height, irrelevant, money, yes you can beat some of the odds with it but I would argue confidence trumps money 9/10 times.

 

Find something you feel good doing, ironically for me its buying nice clothes that's one thing, they make me feel good, I work out, that makes me feel good. Feel better about yourself before you start looking for others, I spent nearly 10 years looking for a date without actually improving myself.

 

The space where you are now isn't a good one, I have been there and believe me NOBODY is going to find you appealing in that space. Perhaps another you can learn, I never did this and I need to, tell people, show some emotion.

 

Its a tough road, I don't have all the answers and you will have down days but you need to find some positive in them. Rejection conditions you to think things of women which aren't true.

 

For years I tried to apply objective thought to dating. The reality is you can, you just be the best you can be.