"Destabilization Phase" and your thoughts and experience

[rumblefish12]

So my LS friends I have decided to join NC

 

I told him it's naive to think we can be friends.

 

Sunshine -- That's really great! You are so right about the friends thing. My exAP kept saying, "I don't see why we can't be friends and just have sex every once in awhile." It was so unrealistic. Friends don't have sex, first off. And really all it would be doing is keeping me in touch with her as she eventually moved on with someone else. I'd be a wreck. There's no way.

 

She would say, "I don't intend to find another man. I don't want you to think about that." It was such a feeble attempt at reassurance. LOL

 

I got so much from LS today and I'm really grateful. Sunshine, you're going to be okay. Better than okay. You're going to be whole again as a result of this. Keep talking, right?

[Chica80]

Thank you everyone....in a weird way I feel ok right now. I'm not sad. I'm trying to focus on the important aspects.

 

I love him. I love him for all his good parts all his bad parts all his potential parts....

 

There is a lot of healing that I need to do. For myself, one thing that really seems to resonate in so many post I read. We are all broken, hurt and looking for something. Good people do have affairs... I think the difference is healthy people don't. At least that's my understanding.

 

I will keep posting here on this thread...

 

Love and Hugs to all of you

[Rea]

Ok.. I have never officially done NC, other than us arguing about him being "fickle" and me not trying to talk to him for a few days..but I know now I need to get out, at least for a little while. As I said in an earlier post, we had IC for the third time about three weeks ago (the full blown sex didn't start until the beginning of this year) and he immediately said we couldn't do it anymore that he had to be good and not act on it anymore.. This went on for a week and a half and last week midweek we ended up having phone sex.. And he's cold again. tbursday and Friday he's "too busy at work to talk" and I made another attempt to talk to him today and he pretty well told me that the next month or so he would be too busy and then stopped responding to anything I said. He knows he has it made. He knows that he can ignore me when he's not feeling it, I'll get mad, and in a few days I'll be there starting a conversation with him again, looking for some sort of high, and if he's in the mood, we will talk and text hot and heavy until we either sleep together again, or something to that effect. It will do me no good to tell him I'm going NC, bc he will say "ok it's probably for the best, and the cycle will start over. I need to stop talking to him for a while cold turkey. So, in asking for advice. What do I do to stay mad, how do I let him know I'm not his doormat? My biggest problem is being strong enough to fight the urge to text him to see what kind of mood he's in or if he texts back. I am so weak and I hate myself for being in this situation, for allowing myself to get feelings, and for letting him walk all over me.

 

IMO: You don't try staying mad - staying mad keeps you in the game, it keeps the cycle continuing. You get mad - you make up - you get mad - you make up... Don't get mad, become indifferent. Indifference if when you know you've mastered your feeling in this mess. Plus staying mad takes energy. Don't give him the power to suck anymore of that from you.

 

I reached a point where I just couldn't be bothered anymore with any of it. Trying to figure him out, trying to figure me out, trying to figure his W out. I realised that figuring anyone but myself out really didn't matter. It wouldn't change the situation we were in. The only other thing that really helped was looking into split self affairs. That helped me understand the relationship I'd become involved in and that it was never going to change unless I changed it.

 

When I started practicing indifference towards him, I could not believe how he reacted. For example, he would increasingly go two/three days without contacting me. I had pulled him on this and told him I don't mind him having a break from contact, but I won't accept him going underground, that isn't fair, it's cruel as it leaves me not even knowing if he is ok. He would not tolerate me doing that to him. The next time he did it to me, he sent me all the lame excuses and apologies, but I simply responded thanking him for contacting me, that I accept his apology, but I choose not to accept his behaviour. I told him I wasn't angry. This got to him big time because he had nowhere to go with it. It shocked him that I wasn't upset. I realised that every time I became angry or upset with him, all I was actually doing was stroking his ego.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Rea

[Rea]

It's extraordinarily painful for me as a BS to read about the intensity of affair feelings - the paradox is that they are "real" but can only exist inside Fantasyland and I think that's what makes it so difficult to get past the "destabilization" - anything remotely resembling reality threatening to leak into the affair fantasy is met with the push of panic and fear, which only makes the ensuing pull that much stronger. This cycle of delusion feeds itself, from itself. I find reading the stories of OW heartbreaking - I came here looking for ways understand my WH's xOW and instead of finding reasons to demonize them, they have been humanized. I understandably have no desire to reach out and hug her, but I also recognize the toll the affair had on her while it went on and the devastation she felt on d-day.

 

Lobe, I don't know your story, but the fact that you are here taking the time to develop understanding of all parties is commendable. I am sorry you have experienced the pain of being subjected to such self indulgence.

[Lobe]

Thank you for posting here.. This thread has gone above and beyond what I intended when I started it. I am the married OW... I have heard perspectives from others like me, from the male AP, and now from the BS. I know it can't be easy for you to read some of this. As far as your relationship goes, if you don't mind sharing, did your husband give any signs at home that he was struggling with "feelings" or "emotions" for someone else? I've always wondered what it must be like for the betrayed spouse, or if sometimes they are just that good at hiding it?

 

Hindsight is always 20/20, right? In our case, WH's affair was one of opportunity. We were not in the greatest place in our marriage - I had gained a lot of weight due to stress and wasn't able to perform sexually - but it wasn't the worst and outside of that, our marriage was pretty solid. We held hands, hung out, talked every day, cuddled at bedtime, went to family functions together, hosted dinner parties at our house, watched movies... We weren't really unhappy, but we weren't as happy as we could have been, if that makes any sense. But timing is everything... My hunting skidoo riding quadding rustic redneck husband started feeling unsettled in his life around the time I gained weight. To address his feeling like he had lived an unexamined shallow life, he went on a journey of self-discovery, eventually taking up yoga and getting into astrology and going vegan. I didn't get on the gluten free vegan yogi horoscope bandwagon but fully supported his decision to explore if it was making him happy. He was off doing his thing, I was off doing mine, we weren't really paying attention to the other person much and in that time and space, created the perfect storm for an affair.

 

We puttered along happily for about a year like that, me doing weight loss, him stargazing and avoiding gluten and then all of a sudden things changed. He became irritable, snapping at me for everything and anything. He lived with his phone and spent more and more time at work or hiding in the bathroom. He stopped calling me on his breaks and stopped sleeping under the same covers with me. Within 2 weeks of his behaviour changing, I knew something was up but I was so sure he would never cheat on me, I thought I must be going crazy. And so I let it continue, right there under my nose, for another 5 months.

 

Lunch Wagon Lady took an interest in WH and all of the sudden my husband was not sure he had ever really loved me (we've been friends for over 2 decades), I didn't understand or support him (I supported him through 2 years of college, bought him his first $^&$$ yoga punch pass and subscribed to the astrology site he was addicted to for Valentine's day), I was demanding (false - I ask once then do it myself if it's not done and he would get mad at me for not waiting for him to do it), I never listened to him when he wanted to talk (also false - it was like pulling teeth to get him to decide on what he wanted for birthday dinner), I denied him sex to control him (that was a COMPLETE lie - I was so self-conscious about my weight I had actually removed the full-length mirrors from all 3 bathrooms in our house). He began hiding in the bedroom at family events, skipping out on work events, you name it. Every possible way he could create a wedge between us, he did. That was his "struggle" with emotions.

 

I don't think she made him do that. I think that the only way he could live with what he was doing was to completely fabricate a place where I was an evil monster, and in doing so, he felt contempt for me. I saw it in his eyes, and did not know how or why he hated me so much, no matter what I did or how hard I tried to reconnect with him. In fact the more I reached out to him, the more of an assh*le he became. He just *poof* disappeared from my life, while living under the same roof. I had lost my mind - I was physically ill, I felt like an intruder in my own home, like I had married a complete stranger. Meanwhile, he was falling in love while fisting Lunch Wagon Lady in the bathrooms at the office. They got star charts done. He sent her love notes. He told her he felt guilty about being physical with me because he felt like he was cheating on Lunch Wagon Lady.

 

Here's the thing. WS's often don't have to try very hard to hide what they are doing, especially when it's early in the affair. I wasn't stupid or blind. I just trusted my husband. When he said I was being too clingy, I thought OK - maybe I am, I'll give you some space. When he said he was feeling too hot and wanted to sleep under his own blanket on the opposite side of the bed, I thought OK - fine, if it's more comfortable for you... When I said I wanted to go watch a movie together, he found errands to run or chores to keep him busy. He avoided coming to bed at the same time as me, going to bed super early if I had work to do or staying up way later than me. I thought, no, we're just off. He's not avoiding me. You're being silly. When I asked him, he agreed - I was just making things up in my mind and needed to stop making him feel bad. And yet, through it all, he never once stopped kissing me hello and goodbye or telling me he loved me. He nursed me when I was sick. He held and comforted me when my grandfather died. He supported me through the stress of work. We raised our kids and cleaned our home. But he was gaslighting me, at every possible turn, and the more time and space he wanted, the more time and space I gave him, thinking I was saving our marriage. I obviously could not have been more wrong. In fact, this would have contributed to the push-pull cycle of "destabilization" in effect making the affair bond stronger. ~heavy sigh goes here~

 

Like I said, I think affair "love" is kind of a paradox. The same way that falling or flight or terror or joy feels real in a dream and is (for all intents and purposes) a real feeling, it doesn't exist outside of the dream and therefore isn't "real." He said every time I would try and reconnect with him, he pulled away because it made it hard for him to maintain the hatred he had created for me, so the contempt I felt from him also existed only as long as the affair did. My husband is not a bad man. He was not on the prowl nor was the OW - they just met, clicked, and let things get way out of hand. (Have you read "NOT just friends"? lol) By the time things went too far, he felt like there was no going back. He said part of the reason he let it go on so long was because he figured that regardless of when they got caught, he had lost me because I would never forgive him, so what was the point of stopping?

 

I can't speak to what anyone else went through because I've only experienced this affair and in our case, WH says that what felt real inside the affair now feels completely unreal outside the affair. He also says that he imagines that coming out of the delusion of affair fog must feel a bit like what people who have been "brainwashed" experience after getting out of a cult. And honestly, listening to him pour his thoughts out during MC I can see how completely disordered his thinking was - the relationships between cult mentality and cognitive dissonance is well documented. (In fact, the term cognitive dissonance comes from studying doomsday UFOlogy lol https://www.quora.com/What-role-does-cognitive-dissonance-play-in-religious-belief but I digress...)

 

Every time I read the AP's account of the BS and the loveless, sexless, strained marriage, I think oh, honey - you just have NO clue about this person - all you have is the story your MM or MW wants you to know, riddled with lies and omission and a healthy dose of manipulation of the facts. If you think for a millisecond that your MM or MW is being truthful about the state of their marriage, regardless of what you think you have seen or heard even firsthand, then there is really nothing anyone can do to save you from the pain you're about to put yourself through, because your poor unloved, misunderstood married plaything is at least half the problem in the marriage he is stepping out on and half the cause of infidelity (you, AP, are the other half). No matter how you slice it, the ONLY person with 100% of the power to not have an affair is the MM or MW.

 

Again, hindsight is always 20/20. For us, working backwards to find the point where we let our relationship slide predated my weight gain and his midlife crisis. We had always been so comfortable that we let the small things slide, choosing to keep the peace by not rocking the boat. We never fought. Ever. About anything. By the time the small things had built up to the point where I was 100lbs overweight and he was planning a fake future with Lunch Wagon Lady, neither one of us could quite comprehend how or why we had gone from the couple everyone admired to the type of dysfunctional household that gets featured as a backstory on OITNB. All because we didn't talk to each other, years ago, about the little things that were bugging us, because each of us thought the other was happy and we thought we were protecting the other person.

 

Affairs are so completely and utterly destructive. The AP gets snowed. The BS gets snowed. The kids get snowed. The WS snows themselves. And at the end, long after the disillusionment fairy sprinkles reality dust around and takes the sparkle off the affair, no one is left unscathed.

[Rea]

Every time I read the AP's account of the BS and the loveless, sexless, strained marriage, I think oh, honey - you just have NO clue about this person - all you have is the story your MM or MW wants you to know, riddled with lies and omission and a healthy dose of manipulation of the facts. If you think for a millisecond that your MM or MW is being truthful about the state of their marriage, regardless of what you think you have seen or heard even firsthand, then there is really nothing anyone can do to save you from the pain you're about to put yourself through, because your poor unloved, misunderstood married plaything is at least half the problem in the marriage he is stepping out on and half the cause of infidelity (you, AP, are the other half). No matter how you slice it, the ONLY person with 100% of the power to not have an affair is the MM or MW.

 

Again, hindsight is always 20/20. For us, working backwards to find the point where we let our relationship slide predated my weight gain and his midlife crisis. We had always been so comfortable that we let the small things slide, choosing to keep the peace by not rocking the boat. We never fought. Ever. About anything. By the time the small things had built up to the point where I was 100lbs overweight and he was planning a fake future with Lunch Wagon Lady, neither one of us could quite comprehend how or why we had gone from the couple everyone admired to the type of dysfunctional household that gets featured as a backstory on OITNB. All because we didn't talk to each other, years ago, about the little things that were bugging us, because each of us thought the other was happy and we thought we were protecting the other person.

 

Affairs are so completely and utterly destructive. The AP gets snowed. The BS gets snowed. The kids get snowed. The WS snows themselves. And at the end, long after the disillusionment fairy sprinkles reality dust around and takes the sparkle off the affair, no one is left unscathed.

 

Wow Lobe, your post is amazing! Thank you for opening up and sharing this with us. I'm happy you and your H were able to face head on the issues that created space in your M for this to happen. It's the best way to stop this from ever recurring. You are building a protective wall together and that's great for you and your family.

 

So much in this post resonated with me. Such a lot of what you have said is exactly what xMM told me about his marriage. He NEVER slated his wife, but he would occasionally talk about the frustrations in his marriage, old and new. I used to asked him why he wouldn't talk to her about his frustrations. He would always say that it was too late, he had let it go on too long. The truth is, he is conflict avoidant. I actually found this very sad. His avoidance to challenge what he isn't happy with and continue to 'do the right thing' (so to speak) in continuing with a marriage because it's easier and what's expected, instead of facing uncomfortable times with his wife to have a shot at improving what they already share is a devastating waste for both of them in my opinion.

[Chica80]

Thank you everyone for your post your words. For being open to sharing. Although we have many similarities I like what Rea said our stories are our own...

 

Rea your post have provided so many "aha" moments for me. When first posting on LS I felt the same. It just didn't fit and instead of being helpful created more turmoil in my brain. The guilt and shame I already poured on myself didn't help to change. I felt it just perpetuated the cycle more.

 

I have some bad news....I already broke NC. Not because I was sad. Last night I text. I had some things I wanted to say and clarify. I do so much better on text or writing letter . I felt I was leaving him when so much is going on. I want to be there (maybe my own perception) but I needed to say. I don't want to leave but this is unhealthy. I'm not going to lie anymore and I don't want to watch you destroy yourself.

 

Today at wrk. Something funny and something good happen I text. Ugh hh I hate that. If it was possible to stay friends then we wouldn't be in his mess....but that's where we always fool ourselves.....thinking we can be friends.....

[Lobe]

....but that's where we always fool ourselves.....thinking we can be friends.....

 

yup... don't do it... DON'T DO IT!!! lol

[Chica80]

Lobe: I have read many of your post....I think it's really great....maybe a lil crazy but also compassionate that you can post on this board. And not judgmental or critiquing but really good things to say

[Lobe]

Lobe: I have read many of your post....I think it's really great....maybe a lil crazy but also compassionate that you can post on this board. And not judgmental or critiquing but really good things to say

 

I think maybe it's as helpful for APs to see BSs who aren't as two-dimensional as what the MM/MW describes as it is for BSs to try and understand the AP perspective. I think it also helps WSs (and former WSs) to understand the devastation caused by their affairs. If something I can say here helps someone curtail self-destructive behaviours, it's worth it. So, thanks for reading I guess.

[Rea]

Thank you everyone for your post your words. For being open to sharing. Although we have many similarities I like what Rea said our stories are our own...

 

Rea your post have provided so many "aha" moments for me. When first posting on LS I felt the same. It just didn't fit and instead of being helpful created more turmoil in my brain. The guilt and shame I already poured on myself didn't help to change. I felt it just perpetuated the cycle more.

 

I have some bad news....I already broke NC. Not because I was sad. Last night I text. I had some things I wanted to say and clarify. I do so much better on text or writing letter . I felt I was leaving him when so much is going on. I want to be there (maybe my own perception) but I needed to say. I don't want to leave but this is unhealthy. I'm not going to lie anymore and I don't want to watch you destroy yourself.

 

Today at wrk. Something funny and something good happen I text. Ugh hh I hate that. If it was possible to stay friends then we wouldn't be in his mess....but that's where we always fool ourselves.....thinking we can be friends.....

 

 

Sunshine, don't beat yourself up about breaking NC. I personally think one would need to be in the right frame of mind to go NC. If you still have thoughts and feelings you need to express, NC would be particularly difficult to maintain as all of those feelings would be swimming around in your head and driving you crazy.

 

Nobody can tell you what the right way to manage your situation is, it's for you to decide. If you don't have a deep, emotional connection to your MM, by that I mean that he would want you to get out of the A even though it would hurt him because he loves you and he wants you to be with someone that can love you openly and honestly because you are worth more than being kept in another's shadow, then I would say it's probably impossible for you and he to be friends only. This is because his needs are put before yours. If he cannot show compassion for how you're feeling, there is no way that you will be able to remain in contact. The boundaries will not be maintained.

 

I can see from these boards that few AP's can cope with friendship with their x. I know that xMM and I's friendship would likely make them shake their heads as we are still pushing boundaries. I know that's true. But we are moving from being lovers to friends because we are not comfortable in what we are doing because it moved so far past being an affair. That leaves us in an impossible situation. To continue being together, we either continue with the deceit of we go full on together and cause so much hurt and destruction. Neither are an option for us, because believe it or not; we are not terrible people.

 

I wish you all the best Sunshine, on your journey through this. Just make sure you take care of you.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Hindsight is always 20/20, right? In our case, WH's affair was one of opportunity. We were not in the greatest place in our marriage - I had gained a lot of weight due to stress and wasn't able to perform sexually - but it wasn't the worst and outside of that, our marriage was pretty solid. .

 

Wow, Lobe. I have seen you post on my thread but did not realize you were a BS. Your story sounds so much like what xMM told me I was half afraid till I got to the lunch lady part. Thank you for sharing your story. It's not my place to feel bad for xMM BS but I do feel disturbed that he agreed to marriage counseling to give her a false sense of security so he could stir up the affair pot with me again. He was and is lying to her and lied to me as well for the last 6 weeks. He tried to get right back where he was last fall. I do feel a little bad, he said she is more secure now, not monitoring him as closely as he has been saying whatever lies she wants to hear in counseling and he had sex with her. It had been years. My husband spoke to her, so I know that is true.

 

As for me, I don't post about it much, I am also a BS. Because I was/am dealing with all my own stuff, I never properly dealt with it. I see the lies xMM spins and how his BS is completely fooled and it has forever changed my definition of truth and trust. How can I ever really know if my own H is thinking about OW or staying with me for all the same reasons xMM is staying with his W? I read the texts myself - H told OW he loved her. She wanted him to leave and it all fell apart - just like mine did. But look. How can I ever really know what is in another person's mind? I see the guys here posting - they are going months - years - of NC but they pine for this woman. I can only hope if my H is pining for some woman he does me a favor and lets me leave.

[Chica80]

" But we are moving from being lovers to friends because we are not comfortable in what we are doing because it moved so far past being an affair. That leaves us in an impossible situation. To continue being together, we either continue with the deceit of we go full on together and cause so much hurt and destruction. Neither are an option for us, because believe it or not; we are not terrible people."

 

 

REA This is exactly how I feel.....when I read the (self split article you shared) it made so much sense, to me. There has never been future faking.....no I'm unhappy sex less marriage. Do I think he's selfish absolutely. Is it wrong and deceitful of course. His wife is not deserving of any of these circumstances. But I understand him I understand his choices. I don't agree but I understand.

[privategal]

I disagree with the notion you should handle the end 'in the best way for you' when it alludes to constantly breaking contact, needing to express more thoughts to ap...common ladies.

 

The A is killing you inside it and once you break it off ZERO contact.

Remember the stages of greiving along with the slowly lifting affair fog is a recipe for disaster.

These 'were going back to friendship' notions are weak...they're about bargaining. You lost your friend the day you crossed the line.

Your betraying spouses, he/she is not your friend, "friends" was the emotional crutch of the affair.

True friends can knock on your door, call at any hour, and the friendship isnt secret.

Self control is in need here.

No contact is the only way.

Anything else is weak compromise and bargaining and more pain.

Only posters still in A would encourage you to stay in contact.

You need to stay away and stop contacting him and move on.

[Rea]

I disagree with the notion you should handle the end 'in the best way for you' when it alludes to constantly breaking contact, needing to express more thoughts to ap...common ladies.

 

The A is killing you inside it and once you break it off ZERO contact.

Remember the stages of greiving along with the slowly lifting affair fog is a recipe for disaster.

These 'were going back to friendship' notions are weak...they're about bargaining. You lost your friend the day you crossed the line.

Your betraying spouses, he/she is not your friend, "friends" was the emotional crutch of the affair.

True friends can knock on your door, call at any hour, and the friendship isnt secret.

Self control is in need here.

No contact is the only way.

Anything else is weak compromise and bargaining and more pain.

Only posters still in A would encourage you to stay in contact.

You need to stay away and stop contacting him and move on.

 

What's been really good about this thread is that it's felt a 'safer' place to discuss feelings without judgement. Nobody is telling anyone the 'right' or 'wrong' way, just sharing their experiences, thoughts and feelings. I hope that we can all be respectful in our opinions and responses to maintain that.

 

There is no 'encouragement' for anyone to stay in an affair.

 

Each one of us is individual and that should be respected.

 

Privategal, I don't know your story, but I'm pretty sure I'd respect the decisions you made because they were made and owned by you, so you must have felt they were right for you.

 

We all move at different paces. Maybe I'll reach the point of wanting or needing complete NC with xMM, maybe I won't. Maybe LC will work for us, maybe it won't. I will own it either way

 

As I have previously stated, IMO 'One size does not fit all'.

[privategal]

I think I was respectful and honest.

[Lobe]

It's not my place to feel bad for xMM BS but I do feel disturbed that he agreed to marriage counseling to give her a false sense of security so he could stir up the affair pot with me again. He was and is lying to her and lied to me as well for the last 6 weeks. He tried to get right back where he was last fall. I do feel a little bad, he said she is more secure now, not monitoring him as closely as he has been saying whatever lies she wants to hear in counseling and he had sex with her.

 

He has told you that he went to counselling to throw her off the scent of the affair? From an outsider's perspective, that sounds a bit sketchy. You know him better than I do (obviously lol) but for me, it doesn't really pass the sniff test considering they've been having intercourse as well. I'd be really worried about this if it was me.

 

I see the guys here posting - they are going months - years - of NC but they pine for this woman. I can only hope if my H is pining for some woman he does me a favor and lets me leave.

 

I suppose in some ways it would make an xAP feel better to know that the xMM/xMW still has feelings, but the effect of knowing would be that the AP gets to torture themselves about why they weren't good enough to get picked over the BS. That sounds like a horrible way to to get "closure" lol

 

Statistically, most WH realize that that AP is not worth losing their wife over, and the ones that are having exit affairs quickly discover that whatever they felt does not exist outside the affair bubble. On the one hand, it's easy to romanticize it by saying that and say, oh they still love me ~batting eyelashes~ but with a handful of extraordinarily rare exceptions, affairs appear to be doomed from the start, with the only guaranteed outcome being that people are going to be hurt.

 

Affairs are so crappy. I've said it before, I'll say it again - whoever invented affairs should get a high five in the face with bees.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I disagree with the notion you should handle the end 'in the best way for you' when it alludes to constantly breaking contact, needing to express more thoughts to ap...common ladies.

 

The A is killing you inside it and once you break it off ZERO contact.

Remember the stages of greiving along with the slowly lifting affair fog is a recipe for disaster.

These 'were going back to friendship' notions are weak...they're about bargaining. You lost your friend the day you crossed the line.

Your betraying spouses, he/she is not your friend, "friends" was the emotional crutch of the affair.

True friends can knock on your door, call at any hour, and the friendship isnt secret.

Self control is in need here.

No contact is the only way.

Anything else is weak compromise and bargaining and more pain.

Only posters still in A would encourage you to stay in contact.

You need to stay away and stop contacting him and move on.

 

It depends on the situation and the people involved. A little kindness at the end of my A would have helped me. It was brutal torture to see him - he was mean and cold and as you may have read, the saga continues.

 

But I will say this - what LC did for me was allow me to see who he really was. Left alone in my own mind, he was Prince Charming, my soulmate who couldn't be mine because he was so noble about his vows and child. I could have spent years pining for him. But now I know he is not Prince Charming. He is just another middle-aged guy who wants both his wife and a hot thing on the side, and is willing to tell whatever lies the women need to hear to get it. He's not a good person and I dodged a bullet.

 

Plus if I had made rash decisions and left our mutual place, I would have hurt myself professionally and personally. I would not have learned my lesson and not have grown as a person. I realize now that I accept bad behavior from too many people and never feel I deserve better. This is a pattern. If I had run, it would have just happened again as it's happened before. Your mind will keep creating the same situation until you learn the lesson.

 

That said, I agree, I was not friends before and certainly cannot be friends now. Even if he was a great guy, you just can't be friends. Its too late. You can't unring the bell.

[MidnightBlue1980]

He has told you that he went to counselling to throw her off the scent of the affair? From an outsider's perspective, that sounds a bit sketchy. You know him better than I do (obviously lol) but for me, it doesn't really pass the sniff test considering they've been having intercourse as well. I'd be really worried about this if it was me.

 

:

 

Well, I mean I really have no idea. He lies so much. Part of it is my own theory, trying to understand illogical behavior, make sense of it.

 

I just know he reappeared in May and when I expressed concern about his wife as she had been reading his emails and tracking him to make sure he did not speak to me, he said she was more secure now. I did not understand what that meant. And then for 6 weeks he was so intense with the love stuff, talking about how he was sorry he couldn't have left her in Dec, how he was trapped and thought about being with me. It went on and on.

 

And then last week I finally asked in person, what is all this. I said my marriage is going to fall apart here with you pursuing me so heavily as my H is aware how I feel for you. I said, you know I do not want an affair, are you leaving your wife? And that is how I found out about the counseling and the sex. He said how he couldn't leave right now. blah blah.

 

So no, he did not say himself that he agreed to the counseling to distract her. But he did say he lies in the counseling about me and the extent of it all. It was my theory that he agreed to it and finally had sex with her to purposely make her feel a false sense of security to start things up again. But who knows. Maybe he's really crazy and has no idea why he was trying to fix his marriage and his relationship with me at the same time. Maybe he really was able to split himself in two. He had no answers, just stared at the ground.

 

That is the other thing. He is two people - big sad sack of poor me, so confused, I love you and her, staring at the ground - and nasty, mean, lying jerk. I can only imagine his act at home. The person I saw yesterday was the jerk. I don't know who he is but I'm seeing the jerk side more and more. Ironically I saw him being a jerk to his wife. I should not be surprised I am now getting it. I guess I graduated.

 

I'm out of it all. He is his wife's problem.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

I suppose in some ways it would make an xAP feel better to know that the xMM/xMW still has feelings, but the effect of knowing would be that the AP gets to torture themselves about why they weren't good enough to get picked over the BS. That sounds like a horrible way to to get "closure" lol :

 

Yes. This. I cannot find that symbol to look up on my keyboard. You said it exactly. That is what drove me crazy. Over and over I said, if you married the wrong person and don't want to have sex with her, why are you staying?

 

Ironically finding they were finally sleeping together set me free. Naturally he said it was so difficult for him as he had all these feelings for me. Please.

 

Closure can only come from yourself, not another person. It comes from letting go of the fantasy.

[Lobe]

The person I saw yesterday was the jerk. I don't know who he is but I'm seeing the jerk side more and more. Ironically I saw him being a jerk to his wife. I should not be surprised I am now getting it. I guess I graduated.

 

I'm out of it all. He is his wife's problem.

 

Not really a "graduation" worth celebrating, hey? I'm sorry for the hurt and confusion you're going through.

 

Someone somewhere definitely deserves a hi-5 in the face, with bees...

[Lobe]

Yes. This. I cannot find that symbol to look up on my keyboard. You said it exactly. That is what drove me crazy. Over and over I said, if you married the wrong person and don't want to have sex with her, why are you staying?

 

Ironically finding they were finally sleeping together set me free. Naturally he said it was so difficult for him as he had all these feelings for me. Please.

 

Closure can only come from yourself, not another person. It comes from letting go of the fantasy.

 

If it's any consolation, the other side of this coin from the BS side is, you loved me enough to marry me, have kids with me, make a life with me, but not enough to be faithful to me. Why wasn't I enough?

 

We lost the innocence from our marriage, so my fantasy of living happily ever after is shattered, too.

 

Frick, now I just wanna go curl up in a ball and cry my eyes out for a few hours. Stupid affairs.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Not really a "graduation" worth celebrating, hey? I'm sorry for the hurt and confusion you're going through.

 

Someone somewhere definitely deserves a hi-5 in the face, with bees...

 

Thank you. I blame myself the most though. A year ago on our first "date" (we knew each other for years), his wife called him while we were in his car. He picked it up on speaker and put his hand over my mouth so I didn't say anything. He lied to her right in front of me about where he was going and who he was with. He actually could have said it was me as it could have been business. I had told H the truth. But he lied and rushed her off the phone being pretty rude and said to me, I don't why she calls me and bothers me. And I said, maybe she is calling because she loves you.

 

I still remember that and the hand over the mouth thing, I was in the car hearing her and she didn't know, the coldness to her (which I would later receive from him), if I could turn the clock back, I would have said to take me back to my car, this is wrong. But I didn't. I suppressed my doubts and said, he's a good guy, it must be her making him like this.

 

It wasn't her. It was him all along.

[MidnightBlue1980]

If it's any consolation, the other side of this coin from the BS side is, you loved me enough to marry me, have kids with me, make a life with me, but not enough to be faithful to me. Why wasn't I enough?

 

We lost the innocence from our marriage, so my fantasy of living happily ever after is shattered, too.

 

Frick, now I just wanna go curl up in a ball and cry my eyes out for a few hours. Stupid affairs.

 

I don't know. Maybe it's different because I also had an affair, but I don't wonder that about my H. I guess I see that something was missing in our marriage and we all make mistakes. I've forgiven him.

 

I also don't think its that easy to just be with one person for the rest of your life. It's definitely an active choice but what happened had more to do with your husband, something broken or missing inside himself, than you.

 

I agree, my fantasy is definitely broken too - we both cheated at the same time. That is pretty horrible. He says he didn't have sex but as we all know, people lie. I'll never get the truth. They spent hours on the phone each day and a lot of time together in person, established a real bond. I didn't really do that because he was married. She was single.

 

I'm not sure I have actually dealt with that side of it all since I've been wrapped up in mine. H just told me he saw xOW the other day and I didn't feel anything at all. I'm not sure what that means. I know I was really crazy over it at the time. I called her up and said I was going to kill her. She almost had me arrested. I was off my rocker on the voicemail. I kept waiting for that from xMM wife but nothing ever happened.

 

I am sure your situation is different since you were faithful. I am not sure I could have stayed. I give you credit.

[paradoxx]

If it's any consolation, the other side of this coin from the BS side is, you loved me enough to marry me, have kids with me, make a life with me, but not enough to be faithful to me. Why wasn't I enough?

 

We lost the innocence from our marriage, so my fantasy of living happily ever after is shattered, too.

 

Frick, now I just wanna go curl up in a ball and cry my eyes out for a few hours. Stupid affairs.

 

This is exactly what I think my BH would feel, if he knew of my A, including what you said earlier about blindly trusting. Your posts, Lobe, for what it's worth, are helping me understand his side. I am trying to stick to NC and figure out how to get my marriage in a good place, but I miss the A and the distraction it is from being unhappy in my marriage. I just don't know if I can get my marriage to a good place.

 

Regarding the stages of affairs mentioned, my A started with casual friendly texting over a year until opportunity came and we started a PA. There are no promises or I love yous, but it's getting to that point where I almost want there to be, even though I know that would be worse. So, the NC is testing me. I think I could walk away from it now without being hurt but can i cope with what's left in my marriage.