Epidemic Social Crisis

[Woggle]

I try reaaaaaaal hard not to be the female counter-part to the old man yelling, "Get off my lawn!"

 

When I hear people my age complaining about "kids' music", I remember my parents did the same thing even when it wasn't Rock-n-Roll.

 

Paul Anka's "She's Having My Baby"

 

Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get it On"

 

Billy Paul's "Me and Mrs. Jones"

 

 

SCANDALOUS!!!

 

Yes but these people still had talent and creativity. Much of today's music is paint by numbers stuff that is processed within an inch of it's life and is completely soulless. It sounds like they aren't even trying.

[MrDuck]

Maybe they're just happy they're in their room and that way they know they're not out getting in trouble, and maybe their fear permeated their kids and contributed to them being fearful.

I think this is actually a major problem in society! Parents wrap kids up in cotton wool!

Media doesn't help, parents are so scared of shootings, kidnappings, drownings or I don't know lightning strikes. That they don't let there kids be kids anymore!

When I lived in Africa, Costa Rica, Indonesia, Solomon islands.. kids would just go out and be kids, play football on the beach, swim, climb trees. Even when my son didn't have the language, it didn't take long for him to be playing with them, its a universal language!

But in the more developed countries, particularly in the cities & large towns, I see it less and less, people stay indoors all boxed up!

Its fear that does it, of course, but its a change in society and it must have an effect.

 

My dad didn't teach me hardly anything, except maybe how to throw a punch, and take one, he would be no ones idea of a good parent. BUT I had all the independence you could ever want! So in that way I had a very back to basics childhood. I'd ride horses, play in the woods, get wet when it rained and socialise with the other kids.

You don't have to be taught how to act, if you have enough exposure you automatically pick up on social cues, and you learn.

Without parental guidance you of course can pick up on the bad ones, which I was guilty of, but I still learnt how to act around other people. What was acceptable, what wasn't, and how to make them like you!

 

A lot of kids are too wrapped up to get that kind of independence anymore.

[MrDuck]

Well said. The most popular women I was around were very vocal and some people would say, What's he doing with that B, but guys have more respect for someone who doesn't roll over and pretend everything is ok. And you eventually attract a better kind of guy by calling them on things. That said, I'm as guilty of putting it off as anyone. Seriously, my very popular roommate used to pitch a fit about every little slight, and she was far from a saint. I think that's why she did it, to deflect the blame, actually.

I worked with my gf for a good 18months before we started dating. She's a vocal girl, she always speaks her mind and there were people who thought the world of her, and.. as with all people that speak there mind, there was a few people that didn't think quite so much of her.

I always liked her, I guess shes a character, and people have always described me as "character", and so ive always loved it in other people, people who march to the beat of there own drum, who aren't afraid to stand out, I think most people are too obsessed with conforming!

But I clearly remember people talking about her one evening, and saying that "she'll really struggle to find someone [a partner] ...no one will ever be good enough for her ...she expects too much of people..." because people by there very nature are flawed!

Even now people will still say of me and her "oh I cant believe you guys work because she's so high maintenance and Charlie's so laid back".

 

But I love it, I love a girl that knows straight up what she wants and wont settle for less than that. I've spent a lot of my life with people expecting nothing from me and the fact she does expect a lot, and still chooses me to be her guy, that makes me feel good, that makes me want to live up to that. To be the kind of man she thinks I am and nothing less!

 

When I was younger, for a bit, I had fling after fling after fling, especially when I first started travelling and I was moving all over the world. Those girls expected so little of me, so I guess that's what I gave them.

 

I want my son to have all those good qualities, kindness, patience, resilience, diplomacy, but I also hope that he has enough courage and strength to be bold. Because I believe you have to be bold in life. If you want something, be bold about it.

[preraph]

Also part of the problem, at least in my case, has been that culture has taught us that sexuality/romance/dating etc and don't mix with anyone under 18. My parents basically censored everything to do with the topic and actively discouraged me from dating. Seriously, I've learned more about dating in the past few months from this forum than from them.

 

God help you. No, seriously, find a trusted older sibling or aunt or uncle who seem to have a happy life and let them be your confident about your relationship problems, too. They know you.

[preraph]

That is a problem. Parents are under a lot of pressure to keep teens from getting too sexual too soon. It's hard to find the right balance, and there is a ton of criticism no matter what you do.

 

It's hard to tell when they're ready to learn about it because parents are usually the last to know. They'll confide in friends way before parents about stuff. But you have to just realize that by middle school, they are getting an education about this stuff from friends who probably don't know much, so it's kind of important to be vocal about at least the ethics of relationships, whatever those are for your family, consistently and early. Then they will still break away and do what they do eventually, but at least you've given them a mindset to refer back to.

[preraph]

I think this is actually a major problem in society! Parents wrap kids up in cotton wool!

Media doesn't help, parents are so scared of shootings, kidnappings, drownings or I don't know lightning strikes. That they don't let there kids be kids anymore!

When I lived in Africa, Costa Rica, Indonesia, Solomon islands.. kids would just go out and be kids, play football on the beach, swim, climb trees. Even when my son didn't have the language, it didn't take long for him to be playing with them, its a universal language!

But in the more developed countries, particularly in the cities & large towns, I see it less and less, people stay indoors all boxed up!

Its fear that does it, of course, but its a change in society and it must have an effect.

 

My dad didn't teach me hardly anything, except maybe how to throw a punch, and take one, he would be no ones idea of a good parent. BUT I had all the independence you could ever want! So in that way I had a very back to basics childhood. I'd ride horses, play in the woods, get wet when it rained and socialise with the other kids.

You don't have to be taught how to act, if you have enough exposure you automatically pick up on social cues, and you learn.

Without parental guidance you of course can pick up on the bad ones, which I was guilty of, but I still learnt how to act around other people. What was acceptable, what wasn't, and how to make them like you!

 

A lot of kids are too wrapped up to get that kind of independence anymore.

 

I had a completely outdoors freedom as a kid, too. I can't tell you how valuable it was to me. Riding horses, exploring the fields and woods, learning how to cobble together a fort or corral from sticks or corn stalks. It hurts me to see kids kept under their parents' wing these days. What they don't know if they never had that freedom is that it teaches you to be more aware and take care of yourself and to be inventive and to watch out for yourself.

 

My mom had that talk when she was older and it was always on the news about child molesters, and she said she probably shouldn't have let me just roam around. And I told her, look, we didn't know what a child molester was, but we were always on the alert out in the fields for anyone out of place or parked in a car and would spy on them without them seeing us. And if we got the willies, we'd leave. I told her our very own neighbor was a little creepy and that while I didn't know anything about child molestation, I knew he was a little creepy and not to get around him alone. A kid has good instincts IF they're allowed to develop them. Survival instincts. It's the ones who are either neglected or isolated and overprotected in a cultlike way who are actually the most vulnerable, and predators know that. They aren't going to try to grab some wild girl on a horse or dirtbike in the middle of a field who's going to go kicking and screaming. I learned everything out there on my own exploring that was of any real value to me as an adult.

[Woggle]

Since I was 12 I was roaming the streets of NY for days on end because my parents couldn't have cared less about my well being and as messed up as that sounds I am glad. It gave me a better education than any classroom could. It made a man out of me and taught how to make it in life.

[preraph]

I worked with my gf for a good 18months before we started dating. She's a vocal girl, she always speaks her mind and there were people who thought the world of her, and.. as with all people that speak there mind, there was a few people that didn't think quite so much of her.

I always liked her, I guess shes a character, and people have always described me as "character", and so ive always loved it in other people, people who march to the beat of there own drum, who aren't afraid to stand out, I think most people are too obsessed with conforming!

But I clearly remember people talking about her one evening, and saying that "she'll really struggle to find someone [a partner] ...no one will ever be good enough for her ...she expects too much of people..." because people by there very nature are flawed!

Even now people will still say of me and her "oh I cant believe you guys work because she's so high maintenance and Charlie's so laid back".

 

But I love it, I love a girl that knows straight up what she wants and wont settle for less than that. I've spent a lot of my life with people expecting nothing from me and the fact she does expect a lot, and still chooses me to be her guy, that makes me feel good, that makes me want to live up to that. To be the kind of man she thinks I am and nothing less!

 

When I was younger, for a bit, I had fling after fling after fling, especially when I first started travelling and I was moving all over the world. Those girls expected so little of me, so I guess that's what I gave them.

 

I want my son to have all those good qualities, kindness, patience, resilience, diplomacy, but I also hope that he has enough courage and strength to be bold. Because I believe you have to be bold in life. If you want something, be bold about it.

 

I hope a lot of men and women read this post, because it's priceless. You know, my vocal popular friend made a couple of bad choices first, but she eventually ended up married to a really good guy and is past their 30th anniversary now. He does put up with a lot, though. But he says it's worth it.

[xxoo]

It's hard to tell when they're ready to learn about it because parents are usually the last to know. They'll confide in friends way before parents about stuff. But you have to just realize that by middle school, they are getting an education about this stuff from friends who probably don't know much, so it's kind of important to be vocal about at least the ethics of relationships, whatever those are for your family, consistently and early. Then they will still break away and do what they do eventually, but at least you've given them a mindset to refer back to.

 

I didn't mean educating them. I have no problem with that and have spoken openly to my teen all along in an age appropriate way. Now we have incredibly frank discussions on the topic of sex and sexuality.

 

I meant that there is pressure to keep them from being sexual, which is different from talking to them about it. A lot of parents approach dating and co-ed socialize from a standpoint of fear of sex happening and simply discourage it altogether.

[Timshel]

I had a completely outdoors freedom as a kid, too. I can't tell you how valuable it was to me. Riding horses, exploring the fields and woods, learning how to cobble together a fort or corral from sticks or corn stalks. It hurts me to see kids kept under their parents' wing these days. What they don't know if they never had that freedom is that it teaches you to be more aware and take care of yourself and to be inventive and to watch out for yourself.

 

My mom had that talk when she was older and it was always on the news about child molesters, and she said she probably shouldn't have let me just roam around. And I told her, look, we didn't know what a child molester was, but we were always on the alert out in the fields for anyone out of place or parked in a car and would spy on them without them seeing us. And if we got the willies, we'd leave. I told her our very own neighbor was a little creepy and that while I didn't know anything about child molestation, I knew he was a little creepy and not to get around him alone. A kid has good instincts IF they're allowed to develop them. Survival instincts. It's the ones who are either neglected or isolated and overprotected in a cultlike way who are actually the most vulnerable, and predators know that. They aren't going to try to grab some wild girl on a horse or dirtbike in the middle of a field who's going to go kicking and screaming. I learned everything out there on my own exploring that was of any real value to me as an adult.

 

First paragraph preraph. This was my childhood as well. Now as a parent with one of mine on the spectrum, he does want to game and it is pulling teeth to get him out.

It is a little difficult to relate with him because I grew up with miles of country, horses and out until dinner. My son is kind, smart and the funniest young man (impartial ) he is. His teachers from elementary stop and ask how little dude is and compliment him his kindness and humor.

 

I do struggle to pull him away from gaming and be outdoorsy with the rest of us. We aren't a social media family, my kids don't see me texting or with a phone to my ear, I am present. I have to admit, we did not have these devices growing up so there was no struggle really for my parents in this regard.

 

About sex ed....all for it. I do not believe that providing birth control, discussing sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancy (how babies get made), or any form of sexuality as equivalent to being permissive. I see it as a duty.

 

My children and I discuss politics (they bring up, good for them), religion and shift in my seat shared bathroom stuff. They hear about all of these things from their peers at school and it is my job to weed out any bs.

 

I want to keep them safe but refuse to have them misinformed or not have an open heart and mind. They are limitless in their own potential...I will only protect, encourage and love.

[Grumpybutfun]

I know it's popular to believe the lessening of social skills became a *problem* with the advent of video games, technological devices, and social media, but I wonder if it doesn't go back further than that. In the face of *billions and billions* being provided to schools from the lottery proceeds, we've been cutting spending on The Arts for decades. Studies have shown that whether one is good at painting, drawing, playing a musical instrument isn't important; what IS lost is necessary neurological connections and pathways, which are so vital to overall performance.

 

 

 

School Art Programs: Should They Be Saved? - Law Street

 

My wife who is extremely creative...music, dance, theatre, art....ended up setting aside an hour everyday to attend to those pursuits with our three children and some of their friends. It was great fun and my kids, I'm convinced, are more open, better socially and happier than they would have been if their creative sides had not been fostered.

Unfortunately, fitness and creativity were the first to go in schools, though a well rounded education actually is mandatory to the learning process of STEM (check out what advanced Asian societies do with their children in art and especially music.)

Best,

G

[preraph]

I didn't mean educating them. I have no problem with that and have spoken openly to my teen all along in an age appropriate way. Now we have incredibly frank discussions on the topic of sex and sexuality.

 

I meant that there is pressure to keep them from being sexual, which is different from talking to them about it. A lot of parents approach dating and co-ed socialize from a standpoint of fear of sex happening and simply discourage it altogether.

 

I guess keeping things separate was never an option growing up in the public school system. Everyone has to follow their conscience on that. My priority would be getting them birth control and telling them to use it because to me, a teen pregnancy is much worse than just teen sex, though both are something it's better to put off for awhile.

 

I think you have to let them socialize co-ed though. Otherwise, they truly are going to be lost and not prepared to date, and let's face it, the more time they spend around guys they're not dating, the more they know about them once they do start dating, and same for boys. You have to demystify the opposite sex for them some way. Having opposite-sex siblings certainly helps. I didn't have that and found boys intimidating and like unknown entities that I was therefore hesitant to speak my mind to.

[preraph]

First paragraph preraph. This was my childhood as well. Now as a parent with one of mine on the spectrum, he does want to game and it is pulling teeth to get him out.

It is a little difficult to relate with him because I grew up with miles of country, horses and out until dinner. My son is kind, smart and the funniest young man (impartial ) he is. His teachers from elementary stop and ask how little dude is and compliment him his kindness and humor.

 

I do struggle to pull him away from gaming and be outdoorsy with the rest of us. We aren't a social media family, my kids don't see me texting or with a phone to my ear, I am present. I have to admit, we did not have these devices growing up so there was no struggle really for my parents in this regard.

 

About sex ed....all for it. I do not believe that providing birth control, discussing sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancy (how babies get made), or any form of sexuality as equivalent to being permissive. I see it as a duty.

 

My children and I discuss politics (they bring up, good for them), religion and shift in my seat shared bathroom stuff. They hear about all of these things from their peers at school and it is my job to weed out any bs.

 

I want to keep them safe but refuse to have them misinformed or not have an open heart and mind. They are limitless in their own potential...I will only protect, encourage and love.

 

If I had one that wouldn't find a balance because all they wanted to do is game (I'm talking about extremes, not just wants to do it an hour after school), I'd get rid of the electronics. The way I'd see it is yes, he will then just go over to a friend's and play the games, but at LEAST then he's socializing a tiny bit with a human.

 

In my day, of course, it was TV, and there were kids who just watched TV and that's all, but me and my friends were never like that. Only a few were. A few lazy ones. That's the way we saw it.

 

I would be racking my brain to find him an outdoor hobby he could really get interested in. A trampoline (dangerous though), a treehouse, a small dirt bike, even a fun job like working at a pool or amusement park.

[basil67]

I didn't mean educating them. I have no problem with that and have spoken openly to my teen all along in an age appropriate way. Now we have incredibly frank discussions on the topic of sex and sexuality.

 

I meant that there is pressure to keep them from being sexual, which is different from talking to them about it. A lot of parents approach dating and co-ed socialize from a standpoint of fear of sex happening and simply discourage it altogether.

 

I can't understand parents who are like this. Mind you, there are a lot of parents who don't understand my parenting style.

 

I wrote all about how respectful and socially well rounded my daughter's friends are. And I know she's got a good head on her shoulders when it comes to choosing boys. But some adults are horrified when they learn that I'm OK with her being sexually active within a respectful relationship.

 

I'd rather have an open dialogue, safety and no secrets than attempt to shut it all down and have her go sneaking about taking all kinds of risks.

[basil67]

If I had one that wouldn't find a balance because all they wanted to do is game (I'm talking about extremes, not just wants to do it an hour after school), I'd get rid of the electronics. The way I'd see it is yes, he will then just go over to a friend's and play the games, but at LEAST then he's socializing a tiny bit with a human.

 

In my day, of course, it was TV, and there were kids who just watched TV and that's all, but me and my friends were never like that. Only a few were. A few lazy ones. That's the way we saw it.

 

I would be racking my brain to find him an outdoor hobby he could really get interested in. A trampoline (dangerous though), a treehouse, a small dirt bike, even a fun job like working at a pool or amusement park.

 

I was an indoor kid back in the day. I'd wile away the summer holidays curled up with books.

[Timshel]

If I had one that wouldn't find a balance because all they wanted to do is game (I'm talking about extremes, not just wants to do it an hour after school), I'd get rid of the electronics. The way I'd see it is yes, he will then just go over to a friend's and play the games, but at LEAST then he's socializing a tiny bit with a human.

 

In my day, of course, it was TV, and there were kids who just watched TV and that's all, but me and my friends were never like that. Only a few were. A few lazy ones. That's the way we saw it.

 

I would be racking my brain to find him an outdoor hobby he could really get interested in. A trampoline (dangerous though), a treehouse, a small dirt bike, even a fun job like working at a pool or amusement park.

 

Yep...brain wracking. He is 6th grd and will start with the yard and Deere mower this summer.

[preraph]

I can't understand parents who are like this. Mind you, there are a lot of parents who don't understand my parenting style.

 

I wrote all about how respectful and socially well rounded my daughter's friends are. And I know she's got a good head on her shoulders when it comes to choosing boys. But some adults are horrified when they learn that I'm OK with her being sexually active within a respectful relationship.

 

I'd rather have an open dialogue, safety and no secrets than attempt to shut it all down and have her go sneaking about taking all kinds of risks.

 

I agree, but what do I know. All I know is a fair amount of kids have sex in high school and most of their parents don't know unless one gets pregnant. My priority would be to see no one got pregnant. And to do that, you have to open the subject. I was a kind of backward girl sexually in high school, whereas a couple of my friends were getting into sex, but what I know is that if my mom had come to me with birth control pills or saying "You should wait to do this, but if you get serious about someone, please let me know. I don't want any accidents," if i truly wasn't about to have sex, it certainly would not have made me go out and have sex. I would have said, "Trust me, I'm nowhere close to that."

[preraph]

I was an indoor kid back in the day. I'd wile away the summer holidays curled up with books.

 

Yeah, when I wasn't outdoors, I was reading. But I never had enough books in the house to keep me busy. There wasn't anything there when I needed it most, seems like. I would pace the floor if I didn't have a book.

[preraph]

Yep...brain wracking. He is 6th grd and will start with the yard and Deere mower this summer.

 

Well, he might enjoy the mower. Be sure to tell him not to mow up next to the fence or anything. That's how I got a torn nerve in my left leg -- and I did that when I was 40-something. i did just fine riding the lawnmower as a kid. But my legs weren't as long and sticking out there. I got my adult leg stuck on the chain-link fence where I couldn't hit he brake. Ouch. And still ouch.

 

I guess I was easily amused. If me and my little friend found a refrigerator box, we were busy for the next year!

[JustGettingBy]

God help you. No, seriously, find a trusted older sibling or aunt or uncle who seem to have a happy life and let them be your confident about your relationship problems, too. They know you.

 

Thanks, I'll see which aunt of uncle would help me the most.

 

Or older cousin, perhaps.

[Moves Like Jagger]

Mothers! Fathers! We have an epidemic of young and not so young people who have somehow never acquired social skills. Blame it on the internet or home schooling, whatever, I don't care, but I beg you to nip this thing in the bud for your children's sakes:

 

Enroll your boys and girls in dance lessons so they get over their fear of talking to and touching each other.

 

Also enroll your children in an etiquette or charm class that just teaches the basics like which fork to use and how to pull a chair out for a woman.

 

And tell them how to date and when a first kiss is required or when it's time to pull the plug on the date.

 

These poor people are floundering out here and then they're getting some terrible pickup artist advice on the internet that isn't helping. Let's get back to basics. Tell them the ABCs of dating and that a date is just a date, not a marriage proposal and that there's nothing to fear but fear itself.

 

Thank you. I can sleep now.

 

I wish someone posted this thread 10 years ago when pick up artist advice started going mainstream. I never understood why relationship advice boards haven't taken a more aggressive stance to compete against pick up artists on teaching younger people basic social skills.

 

I see a truckload of posts on online dating and OW. How about posts on fashion or the mechanics of conversation and flirting? I remember a post a few weeks ago where this guy thought it was silly to have your fashion style dictated by random people on the Internet. I can't help but wonder that the whole idea is not silly because a lot of younger people need some sort of direction because they can't turn to their parents and friends for advice.

 

You girls complain about these men only websites that promote misogynist dating advice. How about the women from different dating advice boards having a group huddle about providing a female-friendly alternative on how to coach guys up over the Internet on different basic social skills. You had ten years to do that. I always gotten the sense that the women on the relationship advice boards still expect us to find some sort of professional help outside of the boards.

 

It's weird that some magician on some men's website decided to take on the task of coaching guys up outside the Internet, yet I cannot think of a single woman on a dating advice that decided to do the same.

 

I honestly don't know what female-friendly dative advice is regarding basic topics like conversation and flirting. For most women who have proliferous posts counts, I have no idea what their stand is regarding basic topics on social skills like conversation. I wish you girls started blogs and did Youtube videos on teaching young people social skills. It's kind of sad that a lot of guys have resorted to using online dating sites to date women that they are not attracted to because they are too awkward to date women outside of the Internet.

 

It's so depressing reading some of the threads in the In Search Of folder. A lot of the people who start those threads there are crying for help that go beyond dating advice.

[preraph]

I wish someone posted this thread 10 years ago when pick up artist advice started going mainstream. I never understood why relationship advice boards haven't taken a more aggressive stance to compete against pick up artists on teaching younger people basic social skills.

 

I see a truckload of posts on online dating and OW. How about posts on fashion or the mechanics of conversation and flirting? I remember a post a few weeks ago where this guy thought it was silly to have your fashion style dictated by random people on the Internet. I can't help but wonder that the whole idea is not silly because a lot of younger people need some sort of direction because they can't turn to their parents and friends for advice.

 

You girls complain about these men only websites that promote misogynist dating advice. How about the women from different dating advice boards having a group huddle about providing a female-friendly alternative on how to coach guys up over the Internet on different basic social skills. You had ten years to do that. I always gotten the sense that the women on the relationship advice boards still expect us to find some sort of professional help outside of the boards.

 

It's weird that some magician on some men's website decided to take on the task of coaching guys up outside the Internet, yet I cannot think of a single woman on a dating advice that decided to do the same.

 

I honestly don't know what female-friendly dative advice is regarding basic topics like conversation and flirting. For most women who have proliferous posts counts, I have no idea what their stand is regarding basic topics on social skills like conversation. I wish you girls started blogs and did Youtube videos on teaching young people social skills. It's kind of sad that a lot of guys have resorted to using online dating sites to date women that they are not attracted to because they are too awkward to date women outside of the Internet.

 

It's so depressing reading some of the threads in the In Search Of folder. A lot of the people who start those threads there are crying for help that go beyond dating advice.

 

Men's advice seems mostly geared just to get sex, so advice from women is more about how to find someone to love doesn't necessarily hit the mark for them. Plus unlike women, men don't think women ought to care about what they look like and making themselves desirable, whereas women spend half their time trying to look better.

 

But my main point and what seems to account for about 50 percent of the problems is mainly boys not being forced to develop social skills and get out of their comfort zones these days. You can't get social with a girl if you can't get social in general.

[NTV]

lol. This thread is great! No one ever considered that the dynamics of our socializing would change nearly this much with the increased available tools to socialize through.

 

 

Hence your evaluation that these individuals lack basic social skills is misplaced. What they have done is instead of only knowing how to socialize with their peers in public, they've added computers, tablets, smartphones all with available texting, videochat, message boards, chatrooms (do those still exist?), etc. Each medium has it's own social standards and requirements just like this forum.

 

 

So, what you perceive as a lack of skill in social abilities may be a decrease in the area you are most comfortable in and an increase beyond your skill level in others.

 

 

"Those kids and their dam* smartphones... grumble grumble grumble..."

 

 

 

 

lol, just my opinion.

[Imajerk17]

Men's advice seems mostly geared just to get sex, so advice from women is more about how to find someone to love doesn't necessarily hit the mark for them. Plus unlike women, men don't think women ought to care about what they look like and making themselves desirable, whereas women spend half their time trying to look better.

 

But my main point and what seems to account for about 50 percent of the problems is mainly boys not being forced to develop social skills and get out of their comfort zones these days. You can't get social with a girl if you can't get social in general.

 

I actually disagree with this.

 

Now, I am not saying in the below that the PUA Community is a good place to get advice, I *am* saying where it came from.

 

The guys who've sought out dating advice from the PUA community aren't yet in a place of "finding someone to love", because they can hardly even get a woman ATTRACTED to them in the first place. Many of these guys were ALREADY taking women's advice and were told time and time again stuff like "why can't I find a guy like you" but women didn't actually want to date these guys.

 

Now, I agree with @Taramere that just because these guys sought out the PUA Community because of a real void that needed to be filled (excuse the pun), does NOT mean that the PUA Community has been good to many of these guys.

 

And on that note, just because the PUA Community hasn't been good to guys does NOT mean that seeking out women's advice instead is the way to go. It's NOT on women to be teaching boys how to be men. They just aren't good at it. Just as men can't really teach girls how to be women. Women can help a guy refine some of his edges to be a better boyfriend AFTER the attraction is established, but the idea that people in relationship forums (mostly women) should have been stepping up to help guys become more attractive to the opposite sex, is a horrible idea.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Imajerk17

[NTV]

Now, I agree with @Taramere that just because these guys sought out the PUA Community because of a real void that needed to be filled (excuse the pun)

 

 

I saw what you did there! Almost a hole-in-one!