Epidemic Social Crisis

[preraph]

The "bring her flowers" and the "neg her" advice comes from the same place essentially. Both types of advice involve employing strategies in an attempt to get a woman to feel some sort of emotional connection. In that sense, both are as mechanical as eachother - though the former (bringing flowers) is a prettier and more flattering method.

 

A few months ago, I went on some professional training course. There was a segment about networking. We were told to pick a random stranger and start a conversation with them. I was talking to this guy who expressed an interest in rugby. Although I'm not all that interested in rugby as a game, I have some social stories that involve rugby. So I relayed one of my rugby focused anecdotes, and that sparked one of his etc....so we had this "rugby focused but from a social perspective rather than two experts on rugby having a technical conversation" chat.

 

The course leader listened in and congratulated us on our "techniques". I think he wanted to feel that we'd been listening carefully to all his advice on networking and "building rapport" techniques....whereas in reality we were just having a normal social conversation. I had another conversation with somebody who was clearly taking the rapport building tips in earnest. It felt phony and stilted.

 

Women want flowers from men they've already fallen in love with - not random characters who are trying to get into their pants. I think one of the problems is that a man feel totally in love with a woman just because he likes the way she looks. So maybe in those cases, the flowers are a gift from the heart. Whereas from the woman's perspective, it would most likely be a case of "who are you and why are you engaging in romantic gestures towards a woman you barely know?" The kind of polite, chivalrous gestures well socialised strangers show to eachother would generally be enough. "Lover" type romantic gestures are almost certainly going to feel a bit phony to the woman who regards you as a stranger.

 

What women want is to be regarded as/treated as human beings....but when we express those sentiments, all too often we're accused of being ball busting feminists who have only ourselves to blame for the fact that the pendulum has swinged from treating us like goddesses on pedestals to regarding us as unpaid prostitutes.

 

My philosophy when younger was always if I wanted to be on a pedestal, I'd put myself on one. I think one reason some men like the notion is because it sort of gives them a clue what the woman wants: money and gifts,so they're not just floundering and wondering. I have seen plenty of men take the bait from divas. Most of them at least do understand competition. But they're thinking, If I do "x," I'll get "Y."

[BlueIris]

Living in the USA, I think it's at least partly a Western thing.

 

Whenever I visit the Mediterranean country in which my parents were born, I'm always struck by the difference in social competence. People are such better listeners there. They talk to everyone and they listen with genuine curiosity.

 

Here, you talk to people because you want/need something from them.

 

Americans don't even think about it but they do it. A lot of 'nice' people have been conditioned to be bad listeners in my opinion, and don't even realize it. They think about what they're going to say while the other person is talking.

 

Absolutely. Same with Denmark.

[Imajerk17]

Well, I do think that there is indeed a epidemic social crisis, but I think males are affected even more so than women. See I used to think that this site was unique in having so many dudes who struggle with women on here, but now I am not so sure. There are a lot of disenfranchised males (when it comes to dating) out there, and I think that the Internet--including this site, is where they come out of hiding and are observed.

 

The thing that these guys find so challenging is that gender roles are NOT interchangeable, and they feel that they have the harder end of it. The early stages of the Mating Dance, where it is on us to take the initiative and read the woman's (oftentimes subtle) signals and make a move, especially confound these guys. (Hey, this may be how our gender makes up for not being the ones who have to go through pregnancy and childbirth and not having our bodies built around carrying a baby.) What many of these disenfranchised males find even MORE confusing and frustrating though, was that they are only acting as they were taught to act growing up (by their moms, teachers, or sisters) --be a gentleman, don't "be like the other guys" pushing for sex ect.

 

Anyway, this probably is what led to the rise of PUA, which may have made things even worse. (Guys don't need to be given a bunch of lines, they instead need to be taught the basics of how the Mating Dance works. And on that note, reading the signals of other people first. If I ever became a dating coach, one of the first things I would do would be to hire female coaches for my male clients to practice their flirting and conversational skills on first. But, I digress.)

 

I'm not positive what the answer is, but I do think guys may need to be given some straight talk from the other men on here, even if it comes across as politically incorrect to some. It's not just about being a good person or being an interesting person or "self-improvement" or what-have-you. Women look to us to lead, plain and simple. My female friends on here may disagree, but I actually think it's great that there are some male posters on here who give the "harder" advice, even if it offends some of the women on here.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Imajerk17

[preraph]

My dad got married 40 years ago in a third world country. There's nothing he could really say to me about dating in 2016. It's a different time now. It would be like coach pop asking John wooden on how to stop the Warriors 3 point shooting

 

In fact it can easily be argued that parents giving outdated advice is the reason we are in This situation

 

I agree there's always a gender gap, and a huge one now, but I think the main problem is simply parents letting electronics babysit their kids too much and not forcing them out socializing in person with others and teaching them just basic everyday good manners.

 

I recently saw a good change in a friend's girl, who has always been pushy and very attention-seeking, beyond the norm, and wore her poor mom down and usually got away with things or got what she was campaigning for, and always had to have new toys/electronics, just a steady stream of new stuff was required constantly. Then she put her in the Girl Scouts, and I swear it's only been a few months, but the girl's whole attitude seems more down to earth and less manipulative, interrupts less. And now she's interested in, like, rocks and simple things. In fact she saw one of my rocks and immediately asked if she could have it, because that's how used she is to getting anything she wants. I am going to find one for her though, but not immediately.

[preraph]

Living in the USA, I think it's at least partly a Western thing.

 

Whenever I visit the Mediterranean country in which my parents were born, I'm always struck by the difference in social competence. People are such better listeners there. They talk to everyone and they listen with genuine curiosity.

 

Here, you talk to people because you want/need something from them.

 

Americans don't even think about it but they do it. A lot of 'nice' people have been conditioned to be bad listeners in my opinion, and don't even realize it. They think about what they're going to say while the other person is talking.

 

Yes, I notice that all the time, too, people just pretending to listen while they wait for their turn to talk about themselves, their kids, whatever.

[preraph]

I do agree with you though about social crisis. For me I only get shy and quiet around only one person. Also rejections not the worst thing take that rejection in stride better yourself and get back up so when you do met the next person you don't miss out. treat all women with respect and be chivalrous. I've learned now the only way to overcome it is by breaking from your comfort zone and grow and develop mental toughness.

 

I think you're absoluletly right, Jose. It does take a lot of nerve to get used to taking that chance and then just getting back up if it doesn't work out. It took me a long time to understand that even if I think someone would be just perfect for me, that if they don't think so, they know something about themselves that I don't know. It may only be that I'm brunette and they like blond or something more profound like they like a milder nature because that's what makes them feel loved. But if they don't like you back, you just have to get to the point where you accept that they are NOT right for you, and they know it, even if it's not obvious to you.

 

I can tell you're going to do whatever you have to do to move forward in life and love, because you really are well aware of your situation.

 

And I think even though I didn't use the word chivalrous, there's been some kickback on the thread because people think that's what I mean, but it really isn't. Still, there's nothing wrong with chivalry, for either sex. It's only being nice and considerate to others. But it's important to understand that chivalry isn't about putting a young women you're attracted to on a pedestal. It's about being as considerate on an everyday basis to everyone you meet as is practical, and especially including the elderly. It shouldn't be about getting a girl. However, open a door for an old man on a walker and the girl behind you at the door will probably think kindly of you....just sayin.

[preraph]

I agree. The strong ones don't need a site like this, or they're here giving advice!

 

This site is chock full of men who IMO have been "de-masculinized" so to speak. Partly due to being raised solely by their moms with no male role model to emulate and learn from.

 

So many threads from men who simply DO NOT know how to stand up for themselves. Allow their gfs, or just women, to stomp all over them, controlling them, dominating them, etc etc. This has been discussed on this board before.

 

Men are literally too scared to speak up and stand up for themselves, for fear of pissing the woman off... or having her accuse him of being a misogynist or some other ridiculous reason.

 

It's really really sad.

 

 

I mostly agree with all this. Only thing is having dated a passive fearful guy for some time, if it appeared I was dominating him, it's only because he wouldn't and couldn't make a decision or a plan or stand up for himself to address a work problem to save his life. I don't recommend it. You become the parent of a helpless full grown person. It's not sexy.

 

On the flip side of your last paragraph about being afraid to speak up, many women are also afraid to speak up to men, and it's nothing new. Been going on for thousands of years. Afraid to rock the boat, make them mad. It goes both ways.

[BlueIris]

IMHO, this is a HUGE, HUUUUUGE problem.

 

Confirmation bias is running rampant.

 

No matter how out there your opinion is, or how warped your perception of the world, you can find others to reflect that opinion right back at you.

 

You only have to look at these online communities of PUA's. Spreading the same psychobabble, social engineering tripe around between each other. It's no wonder people get sucked in and warped.

 

It's all well and good to suggest that people should find their own answers, but it's easier than ever to get lost along the way and end up with some pretty messed up views.

 

Those views then go on to "poison the well", leaving women frustrated and bitter at their treatment, thus making them even *more* guarded for the genuine men who come along.

 

This talk sums up my fears nicely;

 

Oh that is a great talk! I'm taking it to heart. Thank you so much.

[MrDuck]

P.S. Mr. Duck, I got distracted there for a minute, but I meant to say yes, you should be proud of your son. He sounds amazing! At least he won't be blocking you from having girlfriends!

Certainly not.. my gf likes to tell folks she only likes spending time with Bodhi, and I just tag along!

[preraph]

Certainly not.. my gf likes to tell folks she only likes spending time with Bodhi, and I just tag along!

 

Well, darn good thing there's a very large age gap there, huh? He'd be stealing your girlfriends.

[dichotomy]

Mothers! Fathers! We have an epidemic of young and not so young people who have somehow never acquired social skills. Blame it on the internet or home schooling, whatever, I don't care, but I beg you to nip this thing in the bud for your children's sakes:

 

Enroll your boys and girls in dance lessons so they get over their fear of talking to and touching each other.

 

Also enroll your children in an etiquette or charm class that just teaches the basics like which fork to use and how to pull a chair out for a woman.

 

And tell them how to date and when a first kiss is required or when it's time to pull the plug on the date.

 

These poor people are floundering out here and then they're getting some terrible pickup artist advice on the internet that isn't helping. Let's get back to basics. Tell them the ABCs of dating and that a date is just a date, not a marriage proposal and that there's nothing to fear but fear itself.

 

Thank you. I can sleep now.

 

 

My 8 year old daughter enrolled with me at a MMA school over two years ago.

 

We are covered.

Edited May 16, 2016 by dichotomy

[katiegrl]

I mostly agree with all this. Only thing is having dated a passive fearful guy for some time, if it appeared I was dominating him, it's only because he wouldn't and couldn't make a decision or a plan or stand up for himself to address a work problem to save his life. I don't recommend it. You become the parent of a helpless full grown person. It's not sexy.

 

On the flip side of your last paragraph about being afraid to speak up, many women are also afraid to speak up to men, and it's nothing new. Been going on for thousands of years. Afraid to rock the boat, make them mad. It goes both ways.

 

Agree and the irony is that NOT speaking up, essentially being a doormat (for lack of a better word)... will only cause the other to lose interest and respect, causing the very thing the person was attempting to avoid.

 

Their bf/gf ending the RL.

 

Self-fullfilling prophecy.

 

ALL my bfs loved when I stood up for myself and fired back when necessary.

 

It actually increased their attraction for me. They also learned and became better boyfriends because of it too.

 

Sadly, most people don't realize this and say nothing and allow the person to basically walk all over them.

 

Again, causing the very thing they were trying to avoid by saying nothing.. The other losing interest, losing respect, and ending it.

Edited May 16, 2016 by katiegrl

[Taramere]

I'm not positive what the answer is, but I do think guys may need to be given some straight talk from the other men on here, even if it comes across as politically incorrect to some. It's not just about being a good person or being an interesting person or "self-improvement" or what-have-you. Women look to us to lead, plain and simple. My female friends on here may disagree, but I actually think it's great that there are some male posters on here who give the "harder" advice, even if it offends some of the women on here.

 

I don't really disagree, but to allow a person to lead you you need to have a great deal of trust in them. How possible is that for people on the dating scene today? When you consider the whole "Next" culture fuelled by things like online dating and Tinder.

 

A 19 year old guy might read your posts and think "I really like this guy Imajerk. He speaks a lot of sense. I want to be a steadfast, trustworthy, leader type who....hang on, what's that? Easy hook up 4 u? Hundreds of beautiful girls are waiting for your call right now. Abundance mentality! Life's too short not to! That's right! Carpe diem! Enough of this 'be a solid, dependable leader' red pill ****. That's fine for people who are happy to live in the Matrix...but me? I'm a maverick. Nobody leads me and I lead nobody. Why are none of these women answering my call? Screw them. You try to be a nice guy and look what happens. Well, women wanted equality and now they've got it. Next date I go on, McDonalds is the venue - and she's paying."

 

In other words, there's a bit too much of a short attention span/compulsive and faddish marketing of the self thing going on in our fast paced world, for many people to develop the qualities we traditionally associate with trustworthiness and leadership. It isn't any person or gender's fault - it's just the path that the advertising and PR industries kicked off back in the 1950s...and that modern technology has led us further down.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Taramere

[MrDuck]

Well, darn good thing there's a very large age gap there, huh? He'd be stealing your girlfriends.

Very true

 

 

Although, I guess that is a point in itself.. there is a trend for people to have kids later than before! Leading to easily a 35 or 37 year age gap!

 

I've been a single dad since day one but I had my son at 17 (my gf has a younger sister who's 15 years younger than her.. i'm only just old enough to be my sons dad). I think it definelty makes it easier for me to talk with my son, because there isn't this massive generational gap between us.

Society is ever changing, I think maybe as the gap between parants and there kids increases so does the breakdown in communication? Not always of course, there are of course some great older parents and some unfit younger ones, but its an interesting theory at least.

[Wave Rider]

Where you lost me is on the dating advice. Men are going to do what works. All of those traditional dating tips an strategies? Don't work. My mother raised me well in the time I spent with her. She taught me how to talk to a woman, how to treat a woman, and how to take care of a woman. Compliment her, bring flowers on a date, and treat her like a princess. Unfortunately, all that advice is horrible these days. Compliment a woman and she doesn't want to hear it. Bring flowers and she thinks you're "thirsty." Treat her like a princess and she treats you like a fool. Ladies created PUA stuff, not any social issues on the part of men.

 

Yes, yes, yes, and yes! Everything I was taught as a child about about attracting women was wrong. Why do so many men act like jerks? Because women reward jerks with sexual opportunities. Here is a piece of truth:

 

Women: if you want men to stop being jerks, then stop having sex with jerks.

 

Ladies, if you want men to act better, then stop rewarding bad behavior. Sleep with the good guys, not the jerks. Of course, this a fairy tale, and I know this will never happen. Women just aren't sexually turned on by Nice Guys.

 

Which is why I agree that women created PUA, not men. Contrary to ideological feminist teachings, most men actually like women and want to do what pleases them. Most men really do want to make women happy. And PUA makes women happier than the Nice Guy routine does.

 

Men are going to do what works. And being a Nice Guy doesn't work.

 

For myself, being a bona fide jerk never really worked, because it's not really part of my personality and I can't pull it off very well. So I try to be authentic. Still, I get less women than the jerks and the PUAs do.

[preraph]

Agree and the irony is that NOT speaking up, essentially being a doormat (for lack of a better word)... will only cause the other to lose interest and respect, causing the very thing the person was attempting to avoid.

 

Their bf/gf ending the RL.

 

Self-fullfilling prophecy.

 

ALL my bfs loved when I stood up for myself and fired back when necessary.

 

It actually increased their attraction for me. They also learned and became better boyfriends because of it too.

 

Sadly, most people don't realize this and say nothing and allow the person to basically walk all over them.

 

Again, causing the very thing they were trying to avoid by saying nothing.. The other losing interest, losing respect, and ending it.

 

Well said. The most popular women I was around were very vocal and some people would say, What's he doing with that B, but guys have more respect for someone who doesn't roll over and pretend everything is ok. And you eventually attract a better kind of guy by calling them on things. That said, I'm as guilty of putting it off as anyone. Seriously, my very popular roommate used to pitch a fit about every little slight, and she was far from a saint. I think that's why she did it, to deflect the blame, actually.

[preraph]

I don't really disagree, but to allow a person to lead you you need to have a great deal of trust in them. How possible is that for people on the dating scene today? When you consider the whole "Next" culture fuelled by things like online dating and Tinder.

 

A 19 year old guy might read your posts and think "I really like this guy Imajerk. He speaks a lot of sense. I want to be a steadfast, trustworthy, leader type who....hang on, what's that? Easy hook up 4 u? Hundreds of beautiful girls are waiting for your call right now. Abundance mentality! Life's too short not to! That's right! Carpe diem! Enough of this 'be a solid, dependable leader' red pill ****. That's fine for people who are happy to live in the Matrix...but me? I'm a maverick. Nobody leads me and I lead nobody. Why are none of these women answering my call? Screw them. You try to be a nice guy and look what happens. Well, women wanted equality and now they've got it. Next date I go on, McDonalds is the venue - and she's paying."

 

In other words, there's a bit too much of a short attention span/compulsive and faddish marketing of the self thing going on in our fast paced world, for many people to develop the qualities we traditionally associate with trustworthiness and leadership. It isn't any person or gender's fault - it's just the path that the advertising and PR industries kicked off back in the 1950s...and that modern technology has led us further down.

 

There was a recent study that I heard about on tv or radio last month, a real credible study, showing how much shorter the attention span is now because of social media/internet.

[BlueIris]

For myself, being a bona fide jerk never really worked, because it's not really part of my personality and I can't pull it off very well. So I try to be authentic. Still, I get less women than the jerks and the PUAs do.

 

Yes, "it" works for getting laid- not by anyone you want but by some women.

 

So you are disappointed that you do not "get" MORE women to have sex with you or as many as other men do. I think that's just nature. Very few "get" many. But some pretend that they get a lot, mostly because it makes other guys crazy with envy thereby knocking them out of competition and increasing the odds for the envy-inducer.

[preraph]

Very true

 

 

Although, I guess that is a point in itself.. there is a trend for people to have kids later than before! Leading to easily a 35 or 37 year age gap!

 

I've been a single dad since day one but I had my son at 17 (my gf has a younger sister who's 15 years younger than her.. i'm only just old enough to be my sons dad). I think it definelty makes it easier for me to talk with my son, because there isn't this massive generational gap between us.

Society is ever changing, I think maybe as the gap between parants and there kids increases so does the breakdown in communication? Not always of course, there are of course some great older parents and some unfit younger ones, but its an interesting theory at least.

 

There's always generational gaps, between parents & kids and between daters with a big age gap, or even a small age gap, really. But it's not really required for parents to totally get the whole social media thing to notice that their kid wants to do nothing but social media, texting, and games and put limits on it. Some parents do, of course, but even my friends don't. Not all of them see how socially awkward their kid is because at home with them is where they're comfortable, but if the kid hasn't got friends or isn't hitting the social milestones, shouldn't they wake up and do something about getting them out of the room and into a group and force them to interact with others? Maybe it's not that obvious to parents. Maybe they're just happy they're in their room and that way they know they're not out getting in trouble, and maybe their fear permeated their kids and contributed to them being fearful. I don't know, but it used to be common sense that you encouraged your kids to engage with others and participate and gave them the bare basics of manners and table manners and all that. I'm not suggesting anything hoity, just very basic stuff.

 

Used to be the school taught you some of that, but then the parents did too. People scoff like it's unnecessary, but if you're ever going to go to a decent restaurant or go to a business lunch, and most people will one day, it's essential skills not to look like an uncouth pig, as is learning to make conversation even when you don't feel like it.

[preraph]

Yes, yes, yes, and yes! Everything I was taught as a child about about attracting women was wrong. Why do so many men act like jerks? Because women reward jerks with sexual opportunities. Here is a piece of truth:

 

Women: if you want men to stop being jerks, then stop having sex with jerks.

 

Ladies, if you want men to act better, then stop rewarding bad behavior. Sleep with the good guys, not the jerks. Of course, this a fairy tale, and I know this will never happen. Women just aren't sexually turned on by Nice Guys.

 

Which is why I agree that women created PUA, not men. Contrary to ideological feminist teachings, most men actually like women and want to do what pleases them. Most men really do want to make women happy. And PUA makes women happier than the Nice Guy routine does.

 

Men are going to do what works. And being a Nice Guy doesn't work.

 

For myself, being a bona fide jerk never really worked, because it's not really part of my personality and I can't pull it off very well. So I try to be authentic. Still, I get less women than the jerks and the PUAs do.

 

Here we go. That's for another thread. We've been all over the whole good looking guys are bad guys subject elsewhere. If you're having trouble with getting a woman, chances are you're either socially inept or your entitlement is making you fish way out of your cove.

[mrldii]

Yes, "it" works for getting laid- not by anyone you want but by some women.

 

So you are disappointed that you do not "get" MORE women to have sex with you or as many as other men do...

 

 

OOOOoooo...so the only thing that separates "Nice Guys" from "Bad Boys/Jerks" is the "Bad Boys/Jerks" get laid more.

 

 

What an *odd* thing for a "Nice Guy" to want to emulate/duplicate. Hmmmm.

[Wave Rider]

Agree and the irony is that NOT speaking up, essentially being a doormat (for lack of a better word)... will only cause the other to lose interest and respect, causing the very thing the person was attempting to avoid.

 

Their bf/gf ending the RL.

 

Self-fullfilling prophecy.

 

ALL my bfs loved when I stood up for myself and fired back when necessary.

 

It actually increased their attraction for me. They also learned and became better boyfriends because of it too.

 

Sadly, most people don't realize this and say nothing and allow the person to basically walk all over them.

 

Again, causing the very thing they were trying to avoid by saying nothing.. The other losing interest, losing respect, and ending it.

 

See, I had the opposite problem. Standing up for myself only ignited a power struggle and caused my GFs to fight harder to get what they wanted. They were quite happy to stay in control of the relationship, and standing up for myself was not welcomed by them. It only caused them to go further in justifying what they already wanted to do. Lacking better information at the time, all we could have done was end the relationship.

 

I've found this to be more generally true. Many times when I stand up for myself, I find that others fight harder to keep the power. It's not always true that they respect me more. Many times they actually become resentful, or dig in their heels and fight harder to get what they want.

[BlueIris]

OOOOoooo...so the only thing that separates "Nice Guys" from "Bad Boys/Jerks" is the "Bad Boys/Jerks" get laid more.

 

 

What an *odd* thing for a "Nice Guy" to want to emulate/duplicate. Hmmmm.

 

Oh, yes, but it goes to the topic by showing that envy and acquisition- the consumerism and lack of concern about emotional interaction- have been replaced by things like consumption, acquisition, having more than someone else.

 

In lots of case, though, it's a sham. The envious are being lied to about what others have or get.

 

And ultimately, without the skills and motivation to care about people, not just secure their attention for a while or have something to brag about to other guys, you end up lonely again.

[katiegrl]

See, I had the opposite problem. Standing up for myself only ignited a power struggle and caused my GFs to fight harder to get what they wanted. They were quite happy to stay in control of the relationship, and standing up for myself was not welcomed by them. It only caused them to go further in justifying what they already wanted to do. Lacking better information at the time, all we could have done was end the relationship.

 

I've found this to be more generally true. Many times when I stand up for myself, I find that others fight harder to keep the power. It's not always true that they respect me more. Many times they actually become resentful, or dig in their heels and fight harder to get what they want.

 

Then you dump her. Take responsibility for your own life and choices.

 

Do you want someone like this in your life? Does she add to your life? Enhance it?

 

It certainly doesn't sound like it, so why are YOU allowing it?

 

Dump her. Move on to find someone more emotionally healthy and functional.

 

This is precisely what what I am talking about.

 

STOP allowing women (people) to control you!

 

Find your backbone, you lost it somewhere along the way.

 

You have power too ya know.... exercise it!

 

YOUR CHOICE.

Edited May 16, 2016 by katiegrl

[BlueIris]

To be fair, you did mention guys resorting to PUA advice in your initial post.

 

I think that you fail to understand things from the perspective of some males out there. I know when I hit 19 or so, I had a serious dating slump. Like, I could not get a date to save my life. Up until that point, I did rather well with the ladies, so I was confused. Now, at the time, I never heard of stuff like PUA tips, but I did search online for tips to help a struggling guy get a date, and I then followed those tips, which lead me to much success. Much of the advice that I followed successfully is now what most people would call PUA tricks. I think you jump to insult men a little too quickly here.

 

 

 

It's not a matter of a nice guy wanting to emulate what the jerk is doing, it's more like the nice guy is irritated and disillusioned by the fact that being a jerk seems to work for guys.

 

I love women. I don't want to have to treat some girl like a POS in order to get a date, so I don't. However, I know guys personally who lie, manipulate, cheat on, disrespect, and use women at almost every given opportunity, unabashedly, and those ladies cannot get enough of it. When guys like me were raised and taught to respect women and treat them very well, it's easy to lose heart when we see an otherwise nice, decent girl happily let some douchebag treat her like a dog.

 

I'm sincere- the definition of "it works" and "success" is getting lots of women, not forming and sustaining a fulfilling exclusive relationship, right?

 

I ask because I don't define success in any type of relationship that way, even having "lots" friends.