Is this an Emotional Affair or am I just jealous?

[Bufo]

Ask MC for peer-reviewed references that support his diktat that communication with OM is harmless to the BS and the M if it occurs before 9:00 pm.

 

You have an unrepentant WW who is still in the affair. Does the MC recognize this as a potential source of trouble? My uneducated guess is that MC has little experience with this sort of infidelity and might think "just friends" is ok. Bring a copy of Not Just Friends to you individual meeting and ask if MC has ever heard of the book or its author.

 

Another uneducated guess. MC is of the Dr. Harley nice 'em back school of affair busting. Fill up her love bucket for a year and see what happens. The ultra passive might benefit from such advice and and approach. After all, OM's biggest fear is that WW might become available,for commitment at a deeper level should,she be pushed to divorce court. If WW gets too demanding with him, he's gone like the Roadrunner of cartoon fame. And you'll be he perfect Plan B taking her back thus proving once again he Dr. Harley is a genius.

 

You're the Sausage King, right? Start acting like a king. Maybe Henry VIII wasn't such a bad guy after all......

[TaraMaiden2]

I'm a peaceful person, can't stand guns; very much a pacifist who believes Compassion and Kindness can move mountains where cannons and conflict cannot.

 

But honestly?

In your shoes?

I would have decked that MCounsellor with a right upper hook.

[Abe Froman]

I appreciate all the comments from everyone. I guess I really don't know how to proceed in this situation. I DO feel validated from the comments on here and ordered the Not Just Friends book earlier today. I don't really blame myself for any of this, but still I obviously wish it wasn't happening.

 

I mentioned earlier that I/we will be moving in the summer pretty much across the country. We'll be selling our house, going through the moving process, and I will be starting a new teaching position. I keep wondering if this a great time to refresh our relationship or a convenient time to go different directions.

 

The very fact that I am entertaining such thoughts sickens me, but so does seemingly everything else in my life right now. I should be thrilled for another opportunity to do what I love (teach) after being without such a job for two years, but the emotional weight of this issue just seems to overpower everything else in my life.

 

I still ultimately would like to move forward with my wife and believe in our vows and commitments to one another. I take very seriously my commitment to her and to our marriage. Reading these comments have encouraged me to feel that others see a problem, too... Yet, I wonder if anyone sees a positive outcome, as well?

 

Finally, does anyone think that having our current MC as my IC is problematic or is it beneficial since she already knows about our situation to a degree?

 

As always, your thoughts are welcomed and appreciated.

[Oberfeldwebel]

I am not impressed with your wife’s behavior nor your MC. There is a difference in her having friends and having an emotional relationship, which she has admitted she would like to be physical. You may agree on many issues, but to me my wife carrying on this bizarro world relationship, would be a deal breaker. You can continue this as long as you like, but there is no way for it to get better as she admits to no wrong and is validated by her counselor. How has her new relationship affected your intimacy? Do you too have date nights?

[LivingWaterPlease]

Finally, does anyone think that having our current MC as my IC is problematic or is it beneficial since she already knows about our situation to a degree?

 

As always, your thoughts are welcomed and appreciated.

 

 

Not sure why you'd want to go to a counselor for IC who is giving you such poor advice in MC.

[NTV]

To be fair, all mc and ice will be dismissive of guidance received at places like this because. .. job security. And honestly this is armchair counseling.

 

I would be very concerned about this mc and going to ic with her would be out of the question. Not saying it out of the question. .. definitely find one. Asap.

 

I can only give you guidance based on applying my experience to the information you post. Most 5 min conversation can get more information across than likely we've exchange here so far.

 

I do have major concerns in her downplaying the importance of addressing her infidelity. Then again you seem to be willing to live in a relationship where she's historically cheated and continues to. It's up to you to say when something whether it's cheating gambling drugs spending etc is enough for you to end the relationship.

 

My concerns are that this relationship has already ended and your wife just likes the lifestyle provided too much to let you know directly.

 

But as she said, all these things I just said are likely garbage. .. so maybe there are other resources available as well? Books? Groups? Family? Friends? If they all point the same direction we do... well you'll know wife and mc are full of s***.

 

One of the things I noticed in my limited time here is that there are a lot of folks from different walks of life with different perspective and experience that post here... and it's not too often that all the folks who respond say essentially the same thing. ..

 

I would like you to take that into account. I believe that what she's done so far is only an indication of where this relationship is going to go.

 

I do think you need to take leave and see an attorney for a free consultation in secret and not tell her or mc or anyone. Not saying to hire or file or anything. Just look into what it entails. The idea of divorce is scary often because of the unknown. Your wife may be ready for it already and be 3 steps ahead of you. Without knowing what it entails you wouldn't know it if she was.

 

Call it preparing for the worst... and please don't take this recommendation to mc with you. You have already tipped your hand too much. Time for some strategy. Emotional stuff in a journal. Strategy stuff is treated like nuclear launch codes. Capiche?

[starpower]

 

5. One item that I neglected to mention that set off some of the more recent firestorm and led me to suggest counseling was her stating to me that she would "like" to have sex with this individual, "if given permission". She indicated that she knows I wouldn't be "ok" with that, however, so she states she won't. It is this line of discussion that makes me think she just has an entirely different perspective on relationships than I do...and I'm wondering if there's a way to reconcile the two viewpoints into something manageable.

 

 

Wow, how can she or this MC, claim he is just a friend. She want's to have sex with him, she has admitted this to you. I don't know anyone who would find this acceptable. What she is doing is wrong.

[merrmeade]

Finally, does anyone think that having our current MC as my IC is problematic or is it beneficial since she already knows about our situation to a degree?

 

As always, your thoughts are welcomed and appreciated.

i think having the current MC as your MC is problematic! Having YOU apologize?? [Didn't you say the MC was your wife's IC?] MC is not all the same. You can find another therapist.

 

My IC informed up front that she would not do MC with us. She said that IC is about her being my advocate. She said it's not fair to my husband and would interfere with my therapy. I consider that a responsible and fair policy.

 

I think you're hurting yourself and need to get support and good advice asap. That MC should be fired. You can insist on someone else. Your discomfort is enough of a reason.

 

Apologize my foot!

[NTV]

Just a follow up thought. .. if you're footing the bill for her ic....then her ic has motivation to keep the marriage unchanged.

 

As far as ic goes, they can only go with what they have and you have no idea what truth or lies she has been hearing. If I went to one today and said I wanted to become an evil scientist I'd probably have 3 session exploring why and then help developing a plan to get there. Wouldn't matter if I was actually an idiot with the brains of a tuna.

[smackie9]

Dude the writing is on the wall, she wants an open marriage. All the counseling/discussions/ monitoring her internet activity won't stop her desire. You are fighting a losing battle. You either A) be on board and try an open marriage or B) simply file for divorce for irreconcilable differences.

[Bufo]

NTV hit the nail on the head with the observation that the advice you are receiving here is virtually unanimous. Men women old young BS or WS everybody is telling you the same thing.

 

LS is most definitely NOT an exercise in groupthink. You probably haven't been around long enough to see that. Stop worrying so much about her and start planning for yourself. For once in your life be self centered. Like Ferris. You know what film character I'm talking about given your chosen name here.

 

You are in Limbo while she's enjoying herself at your expense. That is not where you want to be.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Bufo
Typo

[bubbaganoosh]

Friend. Do yourself a favor and bypass the counselor and get a lawyer, file and move on.

 

This isn't a marriage, it's a farce and your nothing but a lamb being led to the slaughter. She has no intentions of stopping and sooner or later all those "I'm sorry" lines get old and have no meaning.

 

The longer this goes on the worse it will get for you so end it now before it's too late.

[TaraMaiden2]

Good luck with your move, and job position.

It will do you good, bring you new encounters, challenges and rewards.

I would bank on your going and her staying, because that, ultimately would be the very best thing you could do with yourself. YOU might believe in your vows, commitment and marriage. She patently, obviously doesn't.

 

You guys are not even in the same book, let alone the same page.

As with a fine vintage car, marriage takes maintenance, care and attention.

It takes two to make a marriage work. She left the Garage a while ago.

[yodelwithyu]

I agree with all that has been said by other posters. I am surprised that no one has yet said anything about the whole gaming life of your wife. First of all, I know that MMOs can be highly addictive and time consuming. But you mentioned she had a crush/was obsessed with a guy because he plays the role of a certain character. I think along with everything everyone has pointed out, her obsessions with gaming and building her lifestyle is indicative of a much larger problem than depression and anxiety. She needs help for that too. BIG TIME.

 

The reason I am saying this to you specifically, is that if you have done a lot of reading on affairs, you will see that most people call them addictions. Other people will describe them as having made them strangely obsessive (I know I have never obsessed ever like this before. So your wife already has a highly addictive and pathologically obsessive personality. This is very very bad news for you, as she really doesn’t even know what it is like to have been with just you. There has always been someone else for her to thinking about. She probably doesn’t even know what it is like to go into withdrawal from the high of all the ego boosts and the like. She will remain addicted and obsessed because she likes it.

 

Furthermore, most people say that affairs are fantasies. Abe, your wife doesn’t live in reality anyway. Her life, even without the presence of these so called “friends (who she wants to sleep with)” is made up of her second life which she leads on MMOs. She is literally in lala-land even excluding her dalliances. So when many people talk about their spouses coming out of the fog, it is not going to happen in your case, as she needs to be a grown ass adult and human being with real world interactions and interests to see what an “affair fog” is. But she won’t want to, so she won’t. Otherwise she would not have built an entire fantasy life in her games that she crossed over into real life.

 

Though you seem like a really nice and sincere guy, and I don’t mean this to sound harsh you are not living in reality either if you think that our life with her is normal outside of her cheating. What you have is a socially inept, selfish, possibly unstable child that you are babysitting, who is able to manipulate you. I don’t mean because of the age difference, but because…well, everything you have described about her.

 

I understand that you want to help her and feel a responsibility. But the only people who can be helped are people who want to get better. Your wife is not one of them. There is a quote that says “Relationships are like glass. Sometimes it is better to leave them broken than hurt yourself trying to put it back together.” I do believe that to be true in some cases. But in you case, I would replace the word “relationship” to “people.”

 

Also, please make sure that the MC you went to is not someone that your wife located on an MMO. The doctor sounds really just…not even ok. Even if she contends that the men are just friends, how is it ok to send any “friends” nude pictures and expressing sexual desires from them.

Run away as fast as you can. Sorry if this is hard to hear, but my guess is that your wife will be so busy in her many fantasy lives that she won’t even notice you are gone until she needs someone to pay the internet bill, or when she tries to sit down to play/chat one day and falls flat on her butt because the furniture, other than the desk and chair, has been gone for months when you moved to a new town for your new job. And hopefully, a NEW LIFE. Without her.

 

xoxo

Y

[Abe Froman]

Again, I am truly grateful to all who have responded (even if it is hard to hear and read). After reading a few responses, I need to clarify some aspects of what is going on.

 

Our current MC is not the same person who had been my wife's counselor previously. Last summer, we DID use her former counselor at that time, but this is a new person with an MFT certification that we are seeing now. So far, she has been very committed to trying to help us set boundaries and identify our wants and wishes (which I wrote no fewer than 19 pages on). We both indicated (my wife and I) that we ultimately wanted to stay together and that is likely the outcome that is being sought in our sessions.

 

Tonight was pretty horrific between my wife and me. We got into what can only really be described as a fight. I noticed her messaging the AP after 9 and honestly pointed it out in a rather jerk-ish way. She got mad and started yelling at me, started to walk away and I admittedly grabbed her by the shoulder (admittedly way too close to her neck and the first time I have ever physically stopped her like that...I feel awful...I'm truly not a violent person)...

 

She responded by kicking me in a tender region and throwing a can of cat food (empty) against my head while I was down... Many tears and screaming back and forth went on for about an hour while we tried to talk through our positions once again. Very little positive came of it, so she returned to working on a Photoshop project where she is designing a print to go on a T-shirt of the male character she likes from Dragon Age...something frustrated her on the program and she threw her mouse into my monitor...breaking it in the process...she apologized and we went out and bought a new screen and worked together to set everything up.

 

The rest of the night was fairly uneventful. We did have a more civil conversation about our feelings, but I think we're both just tired of fighting right now. So it's off to bed hoping that I can just survive another day.

 

That's how I feel about my life anymore...survive and advance.

[aliveagain]

You must be living in a fantasy world if you can't read the writing that is on the wall. Your actually paying for her trip to go see the man she's cheating on you with, seriously, the light at the end of the tunnel is a train friend. Your counsellor needs to tell you what your reality will be if you stay married to a serial cheater. If you are having infidelity problems this early in your marriage just how do you intend to keep her interested for the next 50 years? Any woman that needs validation from other men isn't good wife material because you will never be enough for her.

 

There are things far worse then divorce, sharing your wife with other men is one of them. If you are crazy enough to let her go on the trip without you, better let her know you will have a polygraph test booked for her return and the fate of your marriage will depend on her passing it. Not one person on this site has told you that letting her go visit the guy she's cheating with is a good idea because it's a really bad idea. How many affairs will be enough for you?

[Just a Guy]

Hi Abe. I guess you have been given a lot of good, solid advice but like the proverbial ostrich you keep burying your head deeper in the sand so that you don't hear anything that you don't like. It seems to me, from reading all your posts that you are an idealistic person in the extreme. Also, because you are a teacher at heart, you believe in being persuasive in your approach and would rather gently correct somebody rather than take a hard nosed approach to solving a problem. This is the attitude you seem to adopt with your wife. However, your wife as a previous poster has explained, is living in a fantasy world and she is not likely to return to the real world because you are enabling her in her fantasies and letting her convince you that you are a control freak and want to control her. I wonder if, in your sessions with the so called MC you mentioned that your wife had expressed a desire to have sex with this particular 'friend' of hers? It would be interesting to see the reaction of the MC to this juicy bit of information. Your wife's subsequent reaction to the restrictions placed on her are indicative of her true motivations and it is only matter of time before she breaks free of these and reverts to her old routine. In the mean time she will ensure that you stick to your part of the bargain.

In my previous post I had suggested that if you could afford it, you should employ a PI to follow her to where she was going to attend the convention just to see what she would do. Mr. Lucky questioned my suggestion saying that her cheating was already a known fact and no further proof was necessary. In normal circumstances I would agree with him but in your case I think it is justified, not because there is a doubt about her proclivity to cheat but rather, to convince you once and for all, that you are flogging a dead horse, that being your marriage. You have stated that you believe in monogamity but your wife does not and the twain shall never meet. It is for you to decide whether you want to live with a cheating wife or one who loves you for your self. If you won't wake up and smell the coffee then be resigned to your fate and revel in it. Best wishes.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I do have an individual counseling session with the same MC for myself on Monday to deal with my insecurities/phobias/anxiety... Might this be a time for me to address something without the presence of my wife?

 

Bad idea to use the same counselor for MC and IC. IC is for YOU. MC is for your MARRIAGE. Using the same counselor blurs those lines.

 

Your MC already has some biases that will be carried over to your IC. Conversely, any biases created in IC will then be carried over to MC.

[makemyday]

Hi Abe,

 

 

I'm sorry you are going through all this. You seem like a good man who truly loves his wife and wants to salvage his marriage. To be blunt, though, it sounds like there's nothing to salvage. I understand mental illness may play a role, but it does NOT justify her behavior, and you should NOT have to lose yourself or sacrifice your values because of it. Your MC sounds quite unprofessional and inept. DO NOT use that person for IC; seek out another therapist.

 

 

As others have stated, it isn't often that you see unanimous advice on these forums, but the responses here are all pretty much the same. Be thankful no children are involved, cut the cord, and don't look back. Sincere best wishes to you!

[NTV]

Dude, last few times I wrote extensive to you. Now I write one word: run.

[gemini6]

Wow Abe, I am really sorry you are going through the emotional hell -

Anyway, I've been reading this thread and I HAVE to say that you are being a doormat. Your wife, who has caused all of this strife because she CAN'T stop craving the attention of other men. Ask yourself why your attention is not enough for her? It seems from the back story that you posted that your attention has never been enough for her - she has always had someone in the wings...someone to sext, someone to flirt with, someone to send nude pics to. I don't think she will ever be satisfied with just one man. The simple fact that she got angry with you for being angry with her is insane - SHE is the one that has caused all of it!! and why? For the attention of strange men that she has never even met?? This man, who she hasn't met yet ( but she'd like to have sex with) is more important to her than her husband?? This woman is living in fantasy land, she is tearing you apart, and she does NOT care. The attention from strange men is more important to her than her own marriage -

STOP babying her!! She is selfish, self centered, and shameless!! She doesn't deserve a good man like you - believe me Abe, there are plenty of good women out there that would love to have a man like you...your wife is NOT one of them. She will continue to lie, cheat and blame you for her horrific behavior..she will treat you as bad as you allow her to. Don't be this woman's doormat any longer - you really should kick her to the curb and find a woman that doesn't need constant attention from every man that she chats with! Really, I mean GAG!! Who in the hell does she think she is? I'm positive there is better out there for you. and I damn sure would cancel her trip!! Why should you finance her affair - she WILL have sex with the guy - she already told you she wants to!

[elaine567]

Dude, last few times I wrote extensive to you.

Now I write one word: run.

 

I agree.

 

OP

She is happy living her fantasy life which is now spilling over into reality.

You are becoming unhinged with jealousy and your calm facade is crumbling as your relationship descends into violence.

 

YOU cannot be expected to tolerate such behaviour from your wife, YOU did not sign up to an open marriage so YOU need to take action here and end it. She is out of order and is not paying you a blind bit of notice whether she is hurting you or not.

YOU cannot negotiate here, as she is not listening.

Even after the spat, she continues working on a Photoshop project that is all about HIM...

[sandylee1]

I simply can't believe you allow yourself to be disrespected like this.. talk less of understand why.

 

Your wife is childish and immature. She has not grown up and quite simply she wants to have sex with other men. On what planet is it okay to send nude pics of yourself to another man?

 

She just wants you to accept her flirty nature and emotional infidelity and quickly get on board with her actually sleeping with who she wants to. She doesn't respect you and all I see her is you indirectly accepting the role of cuckold.

 

This is no marriage at all. Let her work full time so she doesn't have so much time on her hands. I worked full time with a human baby ... and I'm not superwoman. Stop getting used and drop that idiotic MC. Some stupid counsellors do more harm than good.

 

I actually find your wife's behaviour abusive TBH.

[Bufo]

Did I miss something here? She's being unfaithful (EA) on the computer. She agrees with Freud Wannabe the MC not to contact other man after 9:00. She does this anyway. Later she gets mad because she can't act out her fantasy via tee shirt because the computer isn't cooperating in her fantasy. She breaks the computer rendering it unusable.

 

So instead of letting her suffer the fruits of her second violent anger fit of the day, you, pllaying Mr. Fixit, go out with her and buy her a new screen and computer mouse so she can reenter the fantasy world she enjoys on the computer.

 

Have I missed anything here.

 

Hypothetical. She's an alcoholic and just smashed her last bottle of booze in a fit of rage. Do you rush out to the liquor store and replenish her supply? Making sure she goes with you to make sure you buy the right type and brand?

 

Hypothetical. She's a drug addict who smashed her syringe. Do you go to the pharmacy and buy her a new supply?

 

Or do you get some sort of pleasure or justification from her continued cheating via computer? Well, I can see a self-fulfilling prophecy in action here. Precisely the same as tacitly encouraging her face to face meeting at the adult children's convention she plans to attend.

 

I believe the word used to describe such behavior is "enabler". Ask someone who has been to Alanon.

 

Your goal should be to get out of infidelity as the current situation is troubling you to your core. Whether that involves separation and divorce or reconciliation is not ascertainable at present. But right now, there is no hope for reconciliation as she is still very deep in the affair/fantasy mindset. There are no consequences to her (except self imposed computer breaking) that would cause her to consider ending her gaming fantasy world and online affair. You exist in her mind as an impediment to her happiness, but please keep paying the bills.

 

Have you read up on the 180? A program that works to help you detach.

 

In the words of another poster on another forum: tell her she's free to continue this behavior and travel to the convention. But not as your wife. Then see a lawyer to get a handle on what divorce involves. Knowledge is power, and you need power. You have none now and are simply reacting to what she says and does. She's Hitler and you are Chamberlain, if I may use an historical analogy.

 

I better quit before the authorities intervene.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Bufo
Typo. Or tablet rebellion quashed

[NTV]

Lol bufo!

 

I said run. I didn't say the relationship isn't salvageable. But right now it isnt. Physical stuff isn't you? Don't you see that you've forced yourself into a situation where the only way to stay is by changing who you are fundamentally?

 

If you don't respect yourself how can you expect her to?

 

I'm not saying run because there isn't a chance at repair. I'm saying run because that's your only strategy for respect. Show your self that you value you enough to say enough and mean it.

 

Are you familiar with the business concept of sunk cost fallacy? It might be worth googling.