That's it!

[oberkeat]

OK, let me make sure I understand you.

 

If I were single, because I am a woman I should be obligated to give EVERY SINGLE GUY a chance with me, just as long as I think he's decent??:eek:

 

Every single decent guy on earth certainly does not "deserve" a chance with me or with any other girl. We get to pair up with guys we WANT to be with!!

 

Why do you think this is wrong?

 

Also please share how your opinion that men should have sex with women before deciding whether to be in a relationship with one of them fits into this. Does "give a chance" mean have sex with all the decent guys?? :eek:

 

Giving folks a chance means giving the ones you choose to accept a date with a fair hearing. That's not what's most gals are doing in the dating game these days. Gals are dating multiple guys in the same week, nexting them after one brief dinner date, and repeating the process for months, if not years. That's not giving guys a fair hearing. That's playing games, and wasting time. I'm not the only dude on these boards who observed the same sad phenomenon. Dating has degenerated into something that is superficial, transactional, and totally robotic.

[stillafool]

Erh, no. I think the birth and marriage rates are on the decline because more and more women are realizing that they don't have to be stuck in unfulfilling relationships to make their way in the world. To quote Annie Lennox, "sisters are doing in for themselves."

 

 

I agree. Plus more and more women are deciding not to have children these days.

[Mrin]

i haven't read all 4 pages of this thread but:

 

1. Women are under no obligation to give anyone a chance

2. She actually gave you one - a first date

3. Who knows why women pass up on "really great guys"... Actually I know, they either weren't really great to her or she didn't want a really great guy. "Great" is in they eye of the beholder. Not saying you're not a great guy. I'm just saying you might not be her great guy.

 

I once dated a woman I met on OLD for a month or so. We went out on like 5 dates. She was a competitive figure/fitness model. She had a body and a face that would stop traffic and she wore clothes that showed it off. I remember seeing a waiter walk into a wall on our second date because of her. She also had her act together. Smart. Driven. Career oriented. She just did zero for me chemistry wise. She seemed so... fake. I couldn't even undress her with my eyes the chemistry was so lacking. But I told myself, she's a "great gal". And she probably was. Just not for me. So after giving it a try I wished her well and moved on...

 

To eventually meet my soulmate. Now it is me who walks into walls. Wouldn't have it any other way.

[preraph]

One date is a fair hearing, and if it's not, whose fault is that? Sounds like you had ample time to check out each other's personalities and physiques. Would you rather she had gone on 5 sexless dates with you paying for stuff and then ghosted?

[AMJ]

There's also a chance it has nothing to do with her not feeling immediate sexual chemistry and sparks. Maybe you said something, or she learned something about you, that is a deal-breaker for her.

[Imajerk17]

Giving folks a chance means giving the ones you choose to accept a date with a fair hearing. That's not what's most gals are doing in the dating game these days. Gals are dating multiple guys in the same week, nexting them after one brief dinner date, and repeating the process for months, if not years. That's not giving guys a fair hearing. That's playing games, and wasting time. I'm not the only dude on these boards who observed the same sad phenomenon. Dating has degenerated into something that is superficial, transactional, and totally robotic.

 

 

LEt's see here: You and this girl spent a good part of the day together at a museum and then had coffee. (A good first date by the way!) So that's giving things a chance, and it's not like you got used for a free dinner or anything. She invested about as much time and energy into meeting up as you did.

 

I'm not a fan of the term "fair hearing" when it comes to dating though. People date for THEIR own self-interest dude, not yours. Just as you have the right to date for YOUR self-interest and not the girl's.

 

I'm not seeing what you would have rathered she had done. Would you rather she blew you off in the middle of the first date instead? (Going by your thread history I think you would have griped about that.) Or would you rather she had shown up for a second date with you where she already knew she wasn't feeling it and probably wasn't going to ever? Or even worse, if she was actually into someone else who was feeling it back for her too? How much fun would THAT have been?

Edited April 4, 2016 by Imajerk17

[oberkeat]

 

I'm not seeing what you would have rathered she had done. Would you rather she blew you off in the middle of the first date instead? (Going by your thread history I think you would have griped about that.) Or would you rather she had shown up for a second date with you where she already knew she wasn't feeling it? Or even worse, if she was actually into someone else who was feeling it back for her too? How much fun would THAT have been?

 

I'm confident that had she gotten to know me, she would have liked me. But she didn't. As someone else said, she has 10,000 other messages from guys in her dating account, so why bother getting to know me? Why bother getting to know any of us? And that's exactly my point. There is no incentive to actually get to know someone anymore, not with online dating and the myriad options it provides girls these days. Our instant gratification culture gives women no incentive anymore to actually treat guys as anything more than disposable commodities. It's a shame, and it really means the end of romantic love.

Edited April 4, 2016 by oberkeat

[carhill]

Well, good on ya for trying. No harm in trying and deciding to let it go. I recall, back in my 30's, doing that for a good five years or so. Had a lot of valued memories from that period, mostly exploring the world. After, dating and marital success followed, not purposely but rather worked out that way. Sometimes life is like that.

[preraph]

I'm confident that had she gotten to know me, she would have liked me. But she didn't. As someone else said, she has 10,000 other messages from guys in her dating account, so why bother getting to know me? Why bother getting to know any of us? And that's exactly my point. There is no incentive to actually get to know someone anymore, not with online dating and the myriad options it provides girls these days. Our instant gratification culture gives women no incentive anymore to actually treat guys as anything more than disposable commodities. It's a shame, and it really means the end of romantic love.

 

But you are not qualified to make that call. Just because you like you (and good for you), doesn't mean everyone else will. There is not one ideal that we all aspire to. We each have our own diverse ideals we aspire to. There's no one right one.

[SoulCat]

I'm confident that had she gotten to know me, she would have liked me.

 

 

But she didn't. She spent two hours in your company, getting to know you and decided that there wasn't enough of an attraction to warrant getting to know you further.

 

 

In those two hours she gathered enough info to make the decision to not invest time into someone who she did not feel compatible with, for whatever reason.

 

 

Spending more time with you and going on more dates is not likely going to alter her view. If anything, you'll end up firmly parked up in the friend-zone.

[normal person]

I feel no anger toward this girl whatsoever. Actually, I feel sad for her. She's looking for a decent guy to spend time with, who will treat her with respect, and like her for who she is, and she passed up on one after only one two hour date.

 

You don't treat her with respect, though. You can't respect the fact that she can make up her own mind and have her own thoughts, feelings, desires, or lack thereof.

 

And yes, she's looking for a respectful, decent, guy to spend time with but she also has to like him and be attracted to him. You're trying to make it sound like being nice and respectful is her only criteria. There are a billion nice and respectful guys on planet earth. Why would she go out with one of them over any other? Because there's a lot more to it than just being nice and respectful. Being nice and respectful is par for the course. It's like saying "she's looking for someone who's never gone to jail" or "she's looking for a guy who isn't hideously disfigured." No s***. Do you think it could it be possible that she actually has other requirements in addition to that? Or that perhaps you could let her decide who's deserving of her time and affection, even if she hasn't communicated it outright?

 

 

You really don't know someone after one brief meeting.

 

You can tell enough. If you don't have an instant chemistry, vibe, uncontrollable attraction, it's probably a bad match. Again, she gets to decide whether or not she wants to spend any more time getting to know you. She doesn't owe you another chance, more time, or anything else. You don't get to make up her mind for her.

 

Dating is not getting past a superficial level anymore. People are only in it for instant gratification. Girls are not equipped to be in relationships anymore. That's something that takes patience and an attention span. Sadly, almost none of the people I encounter these days in the dating game has any of those things. That's why dating has become a waste of time. It's best to move on and cut my losses.

 

That hasn't been my experience. Then again, I'm reasonable.

 

Giving folks a chance means giving the ones you choose to accept a date with a fair hearing. That's not what's most gals are doing in the dating game these days.

 

She spent two hours with you. A dinner or drinks is 45+ minutes. More than enough time to tell if you want to see someone again.

 

Gals are dating multiple guys in the same week, nexting them after one brief dinner date, and repeating the process for months, if not years. That's not giving guys a fair hearing. That's playing games, and wasting time. I'm not the only dude on these boards who observed the same sad phenomenon. Dating has degenerated into something that is superficial, transactional, and totally robotic.

 

Guys are dating multiple girls in the same week too. Who do you think these girls are dating? There's roughly the same amount of men and women out there. It takes two to tango. It has nothing to do with "fairness." It's more like two rational adults meeting and deciding to go one way or the other with maximum efficiency. The exact opposite of wasting time. Your model sounds like a gigantic waste of time -- suggesting a girl give you yet more of her time when she clearly has no interest. So you waste your time, money, and opportunities to meet other people while you insist this girl has to go out with you again. Three dates later, nothing's changed, she still has no interest and then you'll go complain that she wasted all your time and money when she had no interest you to begin with. They can't win.

 

When you go out with someone, you have to accept the fact that the person might not like you. You are both taking a chance that you have to be mature enough to accept. You can't spin a roulette wheel, bet your money on black, and then complain to the croupier that it came up red. It's childish.

 

That's playing games, and wasting time. I'm not the only dude on these boards who observed the same sad phenomenon. Dating has degenerated into something that is superficial, transactional, and totally robotic.

 

No, it's efficient. No one wants to spend time and money going out with someone they don't like a second time. Everyone would much rather spend their efforts getting closer to finding the person they do like. Blaming the circumstances because people don't want to go out with you again is just sour grapes. Lots of guys have similar problems to you but most don't. They just develop an understanding of the circumstances and learn to act appropriately within them. Until you learn to that too, you're just going to continue to bitterly blame women, dating culture, etc. It's not the fault of women and society that you can't figure it out like everyone else.

[Mrin]

I'm confident that had she gotten to know me, she would have liked me. But she didn't. As someone else said, she has 10,000 other messages from guys in her dating account, so why bother getting to know me? Why bother getting to know any of us? And that's exactly my point. There is no incentive to actually get to know someone anymore, not with online dating and the myriad options it provides girls these days. Our instant gratification culture gives women no incentive anymore to actually treat guys as anything more than disposable commodities. It's a shame, and it really means the end of romantic love.

 

Did she say anything that made you think this? Contrary to that opinion, most women actually hate the whole dating thing. Especially when it comes to OLD. This site is full of pages of women who hate it.

 

I can think of a bunch of more plausible explanations:

- you weren't her type

- she was already dating another guy and she liked him more

- you weren't what she was looking for. She might have been looking more for a flingy exciting guy right now instead of a "great guy"

- something you said or did threw a red flag for her. Seriously, it can be as simple as the way you smell reminded her of someone else or an expression you use drives her nuts. Or it could have been something more significant like she got "angry guy" vibe from you

- or maybe she just wasn't attracted to you

 

Those are all more or just as plausible explanations as "she'd rather just keep going on first dates with the other 10,000 guys in her inbox".

 

Most women I know find the first date thing to be extremely tedious.

 

Moral of the story: You just have to keep on going and find someone who does value you or want to get to know you better.

[xxoo]

I'm confident that had she gotten to know me, she would have liked me.

 

That's a very interesting assumption. What makes you so confident that you know what sort of man would stir romantic feelings for her?

[oberkeat]

You don't treat her with respect, though. You can't respect the fact that she can make up her own mind and have her own thoughts, feelings, desires, or lack thereof.

 

And yes, she's looking for a respectful, decent, guy to spend time with but she also has to like him and be attracted to him. You're trying to make it sound like being nice and respectful is her only criteria. There are a billion nice and respectful guys on planet earth. Why would she go out with one of them over any other? Because there's a lot more to it than just being nice and respectful. Being nice and respectful is par for the course. It's like saying "she's looking for someone who's never gone to jail" or "she's looking for a guy who isn't hideously disfigured." No s***. Do you think it could it be possible that she actually has other requirements in addition to that? Or that perhaps you could let her decide who's deserving of her time and affection, even if she hasn't communicated it outright?

 

 

 

 

You can tell enough. If you don't have an instant chemistry, vibe, uncontrollable attraction, it's probably a bad match. Again, she gets to decide whether or not she wants to spend any more time getting to know you. She doesn't owe you another chance, more time, or anything else. You don't get to make up her mind for her.

 

 

 

That hasn't been my experience. Then again, I'm reasonable.

 

 

 

She spent two hours with you. A dinner or drinks is 45+ minutes. More than enough time to tell if you want to see someone again.

 

 

 

Guys are dating multiple girls in the same week too. Who do you think these girls are dating? There's roughly the same amount of men and women out there. It takes two to tango. It has nothing to do with "fairness." It's more like two rational adults meeting and deciding to go one way or the other with maximum efficiency. The exact opposite of wasting time. Your model sounds like a gigantic waste of time -- suggesting a girl give you yet more of her time when she clearly has no interest. So you waste your time, money, and opportunities to meet other people while you insist this girl has to go out with you again. Three dates later, nothing's changed, she still has no interest and then you'll go complain that she wasted all your time and money when she had no interest you to begin with. They can't win.

 

When you go out with someone, you have to accept the fact that the person might not like you. You are both taking a chance that you have to be mature enough to accept. You can't spin a roulette wheel, bet your money on black, and then complain to the croupier that it came up red. It's childish.

 

 

 

No, it's efficient. No one wants to spend time and money going out with someone they don't like a second time. Everyone would much rather spend their efforts getting closer to finding the person they do like. Blaming the circumstances because people don't want to go out with you again is just sour grapes. Lots of guys have similar problems to you but most don't. They just develop an understanding of the circumstances and learn to act appropriately within them. Until you learn to that too, you're just going to continue to bitterly blame women, dating culture, etc. It's not the fault of women and society that you can't figure it out like everyone else.

 

You seem to think it's perfectly acceptable for women to treat men like disposal products. Men are not much more than Kleenex to most women these days. Use it once, briefly, and toss into the garbage bin, next. That's a perfect analogy of the dating game from my experience. There's no man walking this earth who can navigate a dating environment this dysfunctional, or at least no one who would admit to being happy about it. We are talking about a dating environment that is not geared toward forming stable relationships in any way. It's superficial, artificial, and distrubing.

[AMJ]

 

I can think of a bunch of more plausible explanations:

- you weren't her type

- she was already dating another guy and she liked him more

- you weren't what she was looking for. She might have been looking more for a flingy exciting guy right now instead of a "great guy"

- something you said or did threw a red flag for her. Seriously, it can be as simple as the way you smell reminded her of someone else or an expression you use drives her nuts. Or it could have been something more significant like she got "angry guy" vibe from you

- or maybe she just wasn't attracted to you

 

Those are all more or just as plausible explanations as "she'd rather just keep going on first dates with the other 10,000 guys in her inbox".

 

Most women I know find the first date thing to be extremely tedious.

 

Moral of the story: You just have to keep on going and find someone who does value you or want to get to know you better.

 

I agree x100. Sure there are women who like dating just for the sake of dating but doubtful that someone in medical school falls into that category. Instead of ranting about her not giving you a chance, you might want to share details about what you two discussed or think about what actually happened on the date.

Then people here can give constructive advice.

 

Or if the date really was completely uneventful, and you can't think of a single hiccup in the 2 hours you spent together, I'd say that's a problem in itself. I'm not saying every date needs fireworks, but something at least a tiny bit exciting needs to happen. Good conversations, laughing, flirting, connection, are all necessary.

[preraph]

I mean, I don't know if she saw this side of you, but if she sensed your stubbornness and the fact that you have a very high opinion of yourself, even that may have turned her off.

[oberkeat]

I agree x100. Sure there are women who like dating just for the sake of dating but doubtful that someone in medical school falls into that category. Instead of ranting about her not giving you a chance, you might want to share details about what you two discussed or think about what actually happened on the date.

Then people here can give constructive advice.

 

 

Why bother with a post-mortem? I think I've seen enough of the dating game over the last few years to know it's not worth it. As I said, we live in a society that is totally geared against any kind of stable romantic relationship. That's the issue.

[xxoo]

Why bother with a post-mortem? I think I've seen enough of the dating game over the last few years to know it's not worth it. As I said, we live in a society that is totally geared against any kind of stable romantic relationship. That's the issue.

 

Do you not know any stable couples? I'm surrounded by them.

[preraph]

You seem to think it's perfectly acceptable for women to treat men like disposal products. Men are not much more than Kleenex to most women these days. Use it once, briefly, and toss into the garbage bin, next. That's a perfect analogy of the dating game from my experience. There's no man walking this earth who can navigate a dating environment this dysfunctional, or at least no one who would admit to being happy about it. We are talking about a dating environment that is not geared toward forming stable relationships in any way. It's superficial, artificial, and distrubing.

 

Jeez, you've gone from, I'd treat a woman so well, to women use men like Kleenex in the span of a couple of hours. I think you have some more thinking to do about how great you think you are. Maybe not believe everything your mother tells you about how perfect you are.

[normal person]

I'm confident that had she gotten to know me, she would have liked me. But she didn't.

 

This is just too funny. First of all, she did get to know you. She gave you your shot. She didn't like you. Your own misinformed, deluded, view of yourself doesn't carry any weight in her mind.

 

As someone else said, she has 10,000 other messages from guys in her dating account, so why bother getting to know me?

 

What're you talking about? She did bother. She spent two whole hours with you. Just because you're bitter that she didn't like you doesn't mean she never gave you a chance. Women message men all the time. Men and women go out all the time and they like each other and they form relationships. If you want better results try being better.

 

 

Why bother getting to know any of us? And that's exactly my point. There is no incentive to actually get to know someone anymore, not with online dating and the myriad options it provides girls these days. Our instant gratification culture gives women no incentive anymore to actually treat guys as anything more than disposable commodities.

 

If women have no incentive to get to know men, why would they be dating in the first place? Everyone has the biological urge to pair up and reproduce. Hence the whole affectionate interaction of men and women throughout history. Just because people don't want to pair up and reproduce with you doesn't mean they don't want to at all. Everyone wants what's best for themselves and will try to get it. This girl thought she could do a lot better. If you're such an amazing guy that's totally worth a girl's time, then you should be thanking God that online dating provides women with the additional avenue to get in touch with you. Perhaps the reality is that you just aren't so great. You didn't realize that although she can get in touch with you, she can also get in touch with a ton of other guys who meet and exceed her standards even more so. So the bar has been raised for everybody. You're just upset that she has better options. If you want better results, be a better person.

 

It's a shame, and it really means the end of romantic love.

 

Totally. No one has fallen in love since the day OKCupid incorporated.

[losangelena]

I think every guy out there deserves a chance, no matter what they look like or how much money they make.

 

Umm, but are you willing to give fat, poor and/or boring women a chance?

[preraph]

Umm, but are you willing to give fat, poor and/or boring women a chance?

 

I think he should at least let them have a multidate hearing.

[AMJ]

Why bother with a post-mortem? I think I've seen enough of the dating game over the last few years to know it's not worth it. As I said, we live in a society that is totally geared against any kind of stable romantic relationship. That's the issue.

 

Why bother with a post-mortem? I feel like your reaction being so dramatic indicates that you're very burnt out on dating in general. It happens to all of us.

Is the whole point of this post to get feedback, think about your situation differently, make some constructive changes? To not keep winding up in the same situation time again? That's why it matters, the post-mortem.

OR is this post an opportunity to gain sympathy? That's fine too, although you're not getting much.

 

If our society is totally geared against any kind of stable romantic relationship, I'm assuming you believe this is women's doing? Because we hold all the cards and treat men like they don't matter?

[normal person]

You seem to think it's perfectly acceptable for women to treat men like disposal products. Men are not much more than Kleenex to most women these days.

 

That's how dating's done these days. It's not gender specific. I go out with girls all the time and then opt not to go out with them again because I don't like them. Plenty of men have the same experience. There's no point in going out with someone a second time if you didn't feel anything the first time. You go out with people and you keep cycling through until you find someone who you want to go out with again who also wants to go out with you again. That's just the most efficient way to do it. Just because women don't like you doesn't mean they've rigged the system in a conspiracy, it just means you aren't up to their standards or they have no attraction to you. They'll just go out with someone better.

 

Do you go out with every single person who expresses interest in you? Do you give them second chances when you have things to do, other obligations, other people you'd rather meet, and a whole life's worth of circumstances that would prevent you from reasonably seeing someone you don't want to see? That's impractical and inefficient. So why is it ok for you not go out with people you have no interest in, but not ok for someone else?

 

Use it once, briefly, and toss into the garbage bin, next. That's a perfect analogy of the dating game from my experience.

 

My experience is the opposite. If you don't want to get tossed in the garbage bin, then don't be garbage. It's survival of the fittest, plain and simple.

[oberkeat]

This is just too funny. First of all, she did get to know you. She gave you your shot. She didn't like you. Your own misinformed, deluded, view of yourself doesn't carry any weight in her mind.

 

 

 

What're you talking about? She did bother. She spent two whole hours with you. Just because you're bitter that she didn't like you doesn't mean she never gave you a chance. Women message men all the time. Men and women go out all the time and they like each other and they form relationships. If you want better results try being better.

 

 

 

 

If women have no incentive to get to know men, why would they be dating in the first place? Everyone has the biological urge to pair up and reproduce. Hence the whole affectionate interaction of men and women throughout history. Just because people don't want to pair up and reproduce with you doesn't mean they don't want to at all. Everyone wants what's best for themselves and will try to get it. This girl thought she could do a lot better. If you're such an amazing guy that's totally worth a girl's time, then you should be thanking God that online dating provides women with the additional avenue to get in touch with you. Perhaps the reality is that you just aren't so great. You didn't realize that although she can get in touch with you, she can also get in touch with a ton of other guys who meet and exceed her standards even more so. So the bar has been raised for everybody. You're just upset that she has better options. If you want better results, be a better person.

 

 

 

Totally. No one has fallen in love since the day OKCupid incorporated.

 

These sites have not made it easier for people find relationships. Statistically, the number of people who met their partner via online dating is in the single digits. This whole thread is showing you exactly why. It is because a number of women out there (and sadly some men judging from the responses) have an extremely dysfunctional view of the dating game. They are the type who think that if you don't feel sparks the moment you shake the guy's hand, NEXT. They have kid in the candy store mentality, fluttering from one guy to the next, never spending any significant time with any of them, and sadly never finding a real relationship. As I said, I'm not the only guy who has observed this phenomenon and taken to these boards to vent about. The deck is stacked again single men in a way that it has never been before.