[I was] Asked for a divorce

[testmeasure]

If he locks up that you are pulling away, the changes the dynamic a bit and he might start doing small things to interest you.

 

That's pretty typical.

 

But TBH, the only way I could really gauge intent after so long with dealing with my H's BS was of he was willing etc. to be intimate. That may sound extreme, but I bad gotten used to him lying, playing me a fool etc.

 

That's one think I'm thankful for. The overt constant hostility I experienced at least made the situation unrelentingly clear.

 

I still tried to take responsibility for it for way too long and save the family by fixing the things she was upset about and trying to make her happy.

 

But there were never any mixed signals. She couldn't have one positive thing to say. Beyond some point she started complimenting me 2 or 3 times a day, but specifically on things that were accidental or unintended consequences, never on anything I set out to do with a goal and accomplished. That way she could say she was complimenting me, but still never give me credit for anything I actually did.

[testmeasure]

You will find me I am sure. I do hope you respond.

 

 

The 10.5 years was a good indication. I just sent a private message over there.

[dreamingoftigers]

That's one think I'm thankful for. The overt constant hostility I experienced at least made the situation unrelentingly clear.

 

I still tried to take responsibility for it for way too long and save the family by fixing the things she was upset about and trying to make her happy.

 

But there were never any mixed signals. She couldn't have one positive thing to say. Beyond some point she started complimenting me 2 or 3 times a day, but specifically on things that were accidental or unintended consequences, never on anything I set out to do with a goal and accomplished. That way she could say she was complimenting me, but still never give me credit for anything I actually did.

 

I had this for a couple of years at the height of the marital destruction.

 

It's VERY painful.

 

I don't mean to make light of it at all. The dynamic between myself and H has changed greatly, but there is of course, a lot of scarring.

 

I did notice that he withheld praise in the extreme and did the same passive-aggressive traits. Very very sucky.

 

At first, things were amazing between us, but then I found out about his stepping out. The mask had fallen. In his mind he was a totally happy well-adjusted guy, therefore _I_ was the problem and he was totally unwilling to come to terms with his actions. I started looking for into how to work through the issues as I had a brand new infant with him at the time. It was disastrous because I wouldn't just sweep it under the rug, accept that I wasn't "worthy" or whatever, and "move on." No Go. I am simply not that kind of person.

 

So he spent a great deal of time devaluating me, fault-finding, outright verbal abuse etc. And I looked at him as just being "really screwed up" and not being able to understand how this train wreck happened PLUS reading so many "reconciliation guilt stories" about how I didn't "understand my partner's unmet needs" that it just wore on.

 

The more I tried to meet "unmet needs" the worse the devaluation got. The more I tried, the outright more blaming / shaming and irresponsible he became.

 

So he started drinking again because "clearly I pushed him that far." And that's where my tolerance ended. Because my father is an alcoholic. And my father had every lame, BS excuse in the book to drink. And I knee I wasn't going to accept that crap. It would me completely up to the fact that trying to reason through with this man was useless. He wasn't going to be reasonable. My experience with alcoholism taught me that the only way out was cutting out the cancer. I threw him out.

 

He'd sober up, come back, drink. I'd throw him out again. He acted like I was "stealing from him" even though he'd do things like steal my medication. I sent him to treatment. Things looked up for awhile. He could parrot the right words. He was slow to find a job. But honestly, he was still a total jackass to me.

 

Then I found his drinking and stepping out again. I went to throw him out. He trashed my room. He got physical and the cops took him away and stuck him in the drunk tank. On one other occasion he tried to get physical with me when he returned, but that was very foolish. I get the impression most women are very afraid when attacked by men (rightfully so) but my response in general is to be very afraid / freeze up when the abuse is verbal / emotional but then if it turns physical, it seems to set off a different part of my brain where my primary feeling is that of being "offended" like "challenged" so in those heated moments I had no qualms about getting physical back, just enough to defend myself. The last time this happened (many years ago) he was kicking me and holding my arm so I couldn't even move away from him (he was also very drunk) so I reached around with my other hand, offended as Hell, grabbed him by the thinning hair that he was sensitive about and pulled him right down to the ground. I was just so maddend and baffled that one adult would kick another that I could only manage to yell out "You don't kick me! You don't kick me! What the Hell?" My father was a physical abuser (much more extreme) so I had enough experience getting a much-larger male off of me, and I don't feel "traumatised" by that as much as I feel irritated and annoyed. My husband never did it again and had very deep shame about the bruises he did leave. That alone spurred him to go and get help with his issues. Seeing how bad things got and with no good excuse for getting physical, it was pretty hard to deny with visible bruising.

 

In hindsight, I can't believe how bad things got.

I refused to have him around for awhile, period.

 

He went to a Domestic Violence group for awhile after that (voluntary) and learned about passive-aggressive communication etc. That helped A LOT. He stabilized in that sense and stopped being so obstinate every time there was an issue between us.

 

Then he slipped a disc in his spine. He was given six percs a day and he realized he was going to develop quite the problem so he took himself off. Then right after he relapsed drinking. I refused to have him around this time until he attended treatment. He agreed. Some months later he did. They really got to the core of things with him and things greatly altered. I don't have many issues with him now, and the further he gets from substance abuse, the more empathy and understanding / appreciation he appears to develop for me.

 

But I Also found that the more I am willing to tolerate, the more crap he was willing to dish out. I suspect that's most addicts.

 

At this point I find him not being a detriment to our family, but an asset. I'm glad that he was able to access the programs that he did, and that he stuck with them.

 

We are still attending weekly counseling (separate and together). There's a lot of baggage to work through, but he's put a large effort into improving communication, sharing his viewpoint and asserting himself appropriately.

 

In OP's marriage, the devaluation has gone on for such an extended period with no tangible change, I can't forsee even her absence awakening her husband to taking some responsibility. It really is "all about him and his wants."

 

His wants come before her needs and if she even raises an issue, she gets skewered for it. I can't imagine him having that low of a tolerance threshold for the wife said he loved and would work things out in MC not long ago

The fact that he asked for a divorce and is expecting her to just go about the routine says everything:

 

He's emotionally manipulating her to be able to keep the very tightly-wound life that he wants, while not caring two craps about her well-being.

 

Even my train wreck husband knew that the dynamic was bad. And when he figured out it was "him" in a lot of it, he put in the effort to figure out what to do instead.

 

This husband, who isn't half the train wreck, is using textbook manipulation DESPITE KNOWING what his wife's experience is, and deep dissatisfaction, to keep her exactly where he wants her. He will play "nice" for the counselor and then pull the divorce card in private. How repugnant.

[testmeasure]

But I Also found that the more I am willing to tolerate, the more crap he was willing to dish out. I suspect that's most addicts.

 

This husband, who isn't half the train wreck, is using textbook manipulation DESPITE KNOWING what his wife's experience is, and deep dissatisfaction, to keep her exactly where he wants her. He will play "nice" for the counselor and then pull the divorce card in private. How repugnant.

 

I'm quite familiar with the keep the family together at any cost mindset.

 

That was me. Unfortunately my ex stopped going to marital counseling, filed for divorce, and tried to limit my role in my daughters life every way imaginable.

 

I'm sure my daughter and I are better off. It's less clear, but probably my ex is too. That's at least the appearance.

 

I wasn't allowed a choice of keeping the family together. The things I left quoted above scare me. It gives me a dark view of how the picture would have turned out if I had the upper hand in keeping us together.

 

That doesn't sound like a healthy relationship. I would question whether the child is truly better off. Here's something I wrote in another thread where the two people were just making each other completely miserable. They had tried and tried to fix issues to the point where there was some question of whether it was reasonable to think they could ever be fixed.

 

"Personally I suspect it's very, very damaging for kids to grow up with two parents who make each other miserable. They need examples of healthy relationships, not unhealthy ones. I think putting an unhealthy relationship front and center and just holding it there by sheer willpower, is actually kind of twisted."

 

I wanted to add on to that: Are you actually trying to raise stalkers or sadomasochists?

 

A lot of my ex's stuff was also based on whether she could get away with it or whether she saw anything to gain from it. Every book out there, says she will eventually direct the bad side of her behavior toward our daughter. If we're all 3 living behind closed doors, I can't stop her from pointing the guns at the deck and threatening to sink us all. If I'm living on my own island of refuge, she can point the guns at the deck and sink her own ship all she wants, there's nothing to be gained from it. Meanwhile I provide that same refuge to our daughter. Right now she probably still thinks she's looking over my shoulder with her concerns. But when the day comes, I'm not trapped behind closed doors with her anymore. I'm out here where I can shine the spotlight on what's going on in there behind her closed doors. When the day comes, there is much less chance of her getting away with or benefiting from pulling the crap she's capable of on our daughter, and I'm in a much better position to protect our daughter if she does.

 

There was I time when I would have done anything to save the family. Now, would I even get back together? Not a chance. After reading your last paragraph, maybe not a chance in hell. It's not a total "train wreck" anymore, but only a half a train wreck, even thought he's still "pointing the guns at the deck"? A child shouldn't grow up on a ship with the guns pointed at the deck. There is too much fear and anger.

 

The experts seem to think a child needs both parents, but they also seem to think the child can turn out healthy as long as at least one of the parents is an island of refuge that provides an example of healthy and normal even if the other parent is bad in every way imaginable. You can't be the healthy normal island of refuge if you're on the ship with the guns pointed at the deck. That just makes you a part of the larger twisted unhealthy picture right along with all the accompanying fear and anger.

 

I give my honest opinion as it stands now. If you take your path and it works out, I stand to be corrected.

 

 

.

Edited January 31, 2016 by testmeasure

[DevastatedDiva]

I had this for a couple of years at the height of the marital destruction.

 

It's VERY painful.

 

I don't mean to make light of it at all. The dynamic between myself and H has changed greatly, but there is of course, a lot of scarring.

 

I did notice that he withheld praise in the extreme and did the same passive-aggressive traits. Very very painful.

 

The more I tried to meet "unmet needs" the worse the devaluation got. The more I tried, the outright more blaming / shaming and irresponsible he became.

 

 

Then I found his drinking and stepping out again. I went to throw him out. He trashed my room. He got physical and the cops took him away and stuck him in the drunk tank. On one other occasion he tried to get physical with me when he returned, but that was very foolish. I get the impression most women are very afraid when attacked by men (rightfully so) but my response in general is to be very afraid / freeze up when the abuse is verbal / emotional but then if it turns physical, it seems to set off a different part of my brain where my primary feeling is that of being "offended" like "challenged" so in those heated moments I had no qualms about getting physical back, just enough to defend myself. The last time this happened (many years ago) he was kicking me and holding my arm so I couldn't even move away from him (he was also very drunk) so I reached around with my other hand, offended as Hell, grabbed him by the thinning hair that he was sensitive about and pulled him right down to the ground. I was just so maddend and baffled that one adult would kick another that I could only manage to yell out "You don't kick me! You don't kick me! What the Hell?" My father was a physical abuser (much more extreme) so I had enough experience getting a much-larger male off of me, and I don't feel "traumatised" by that as much as I feel irritated and annoyed. My husband never did it again and had very deep shame about the bruises he did leave. That alone spurred him to go and get help with his issues. Seeing how bad things got and with no good excuse for getting physical, it was pretty hard to deny with visible bruising.

 

I always appreciate your posts but the above terrifies me for you.

 

But I Also found that the more I am willing to tolerate, the more crap he was willing to dish out. I suspect that's most addicts.

 

At this point I find him not being a detriment to our family, but an asset. I'm glad that he was able to access the programs that he did, and that he stuck with them.how is he an asset now? What does he do/change?

 

 

In OP's marriage, the devaluation has gone on for such an extended period with no tangible change, I can't forsee even her absence awakening her husband to taking some responsibility. It really is "all about him and his wants."

 

His wants come before her needs and if she even raises an issue, she gets skewered for it. I can't imagine him having that low of a tolerance threshold for the wife said he loved and would work things out in MC not long ago

The fact that he asked for a divorce and is expecting her to just go about the routine says everything:

 

He's emotionally manipulating her to be able to keep the very tightly-wound life that he wants, while not caring two craps about her well-being.

 

This husband, who isn't half the train wreck, is using textbook manipulation DESPITE KNOWING what his wife's experience is, and deep dissatisfaction, to keep her exactly where he wants her. He will play "nice" for the counselor and then pull the divorce card in private. How repugnant.

 

DOT: I'm crying with relief. You've seen me. You understand. Someone sees me. THANK YOU

 

Can I use some of this to show my therapist?

[dreamingoftigers]

DOT: I'm crying with relief. You've seen me. You understand. Someone sees me. THANK YOU

 

Can I use some of this to show my therapist?

 

Yes of course go ahead.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm quite familiar with the keep the family together at any cost mindset.

 

That was me. Unfortunately my ex stopped going to marital counseling, filed for divorce, and tried to limit my role in my daughters life every way imaginable.

 

I'm sure my daughter and I are better off. It's less clear, but probably my ex is too. That's at least the appearance.

 

I wasn't allowed a choice of keeping the family together. The things I left quoted above scare me. It gives me a dark view of how the picture would have turned out if I had the upper hand in keeping us together.

 

That doesn't sound like a healthy relationship. I would question whether the child is truly better off. Here's something I wrote in another thread where the two people were just making each other completely miserable. They had tried and tried to fix issues to the point where there was some question of whether it was reasonable to think they could ever be fixed.

 

"Personally I suspect it's very, very damaging for kids to grow up with two parents who make each other miserable. They need examples of healthy relationships, not unhealthy ones. I think putting an unhealthy relationship front and center and just holding it there by sheer willpower, is actually kind of twisted."

 

I wanted to add on to that: Are you actually trying to raise stalkers or sadomasochists?

 

A lot of my ex's stuff was also based on whether she could get away with it or whether she saw anything to gain from it. Every book out there, says she will eventually direct the bad side of her behavior toward our daughter. If we're all 3 living behind closed doors, I can't stop her from pointing the guns at the deck and threatening to sink us all. If I'm living on my own island of refuge, she can point the guns at the deck and sink her own ship all she wants, there's nothing to be gained from it. Meanwhile I provide that same refuge to our daughter. Right now she probably still thinks she's looking over my shoulder with her concerns. But when the day comes, I'm not trapped behind closed doors with her anymore. I'm out here where I can shine the spotlight on what's going on in there behind her closed doors. When the day comes, there is much less chance of her getting away with or benefiting from pulling the crap she's capable of on our daughter, and I'm in a much better position to protect our daughter if she does.

 

There was I time when I would have done anything to save the family. Now, would I even get back together? Not a chance. After reading your last paragraph, maybe not a chance in hell. It's not a total "train wreck" anymore, but only a half a train wreck, even thought he's still "pointing the guns at the deck"? A child shouldn't grow up on a ship with the guns pointed at the deck. There is too much fear and anger.

 

The experts seem to think a child needs both parents, but they also seem to think the child can turn out healthy as long as at least one of the parents is an island of refuge that provides an example of healthy and normal even if the other parent is bad in every way imaginable. You can't be the healthy normal island of refuge if you're on the ship with the guns pointed at the deck. That just makes you a part of the larger twisted unhealthy picture right along with all the accompanying fear and anger.

 

I give my honest opinion as it stands now. If you take your path and it works out, I stand to be corrected.

 

 

.

 

Erm, perhaps the gravity of my former situation has not allowed me to paint an accurate picture of where we are now.

 

The cheating was almost seven years ago, the first alcohol relapse was 6 years ago. Treatment #1 was approximately 5 years ago. The physical incident four years ago.

 

After that. Things calmed right down until Sept 2014. We went to vounseling in between. Stiff would be snipy and passive-aggressive, bit not as volatile. He slipped his disc Sept 2014, took himself off of percs in December 2014 and relapsed with alcohol.

 

He realized right away it wasn't the route he wanted, I refused him entry back home until he dealt with it. He went up and down for about two months trying to kick it himself. Then he went to treatment as soon as he realized he couldn't just "wean off and sober up" himself. Unlike the percs, which, if you've ever been prescribed percs, you realize is nothing short of a miracle. I think if he hadn't been given percs, there's no way he would have relapsed with booze.

 

So in treatment and post-treatment, its almost like he's at the final frontier of healthy communication. The areas of growth and progress ate virtually unfakeable and he's gone leaps and bounds taking responsibility and control of his own life and feelings.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't have let him anywhere near us without consistent effort and low expectations for me to take him back. Of he had pressured me one iota, I would have cut him loose. I did file for custody of our daughter whenni found out about his relapse. I figured he was done for.

 

The only reason I felt secure enough to keep ongoing counseling, an open dialogue etc going was that as soon as he relapsed last year, he tried to pull himself out right away and didn't dump his baggage all over me. Everything he's done post-relapse shows actual growth instead of "yeah, see I'm growing now you need to get over it because I'm all better and you're being mean to me."

 

In fact, he reminds me very much of who I married.

 

I'm not in a "hostage situation" with guns pointed at the deck.

 

Unlike previous low points in our relationship, I also have support systems to turn to in case there is an issue.

 

But the most important reason IS my daughter. Her Dad is an actual asset to her. He is a great Dad that invests a lot if time, effort and energy in her. I have NO FEAR that he will turn on her in any way. Having grown up with an NPD, alcoholic father, I know exactly what that looks like and I wouldn't subject her to it. Period. I don't make my children pay huge emotional and psychological prices so I can have a marriage. No way. She has a functiomal, healthy relationship.with her Dad. And I'm glad to say that I do too.

 

Part of the issues I had before were that he would treat her very well, and treat me crappy. So clearly he knew how to treat people well. Now I'm glad there's been a shift to the positive for all of us.

[testmeasure]

That does make a clearer picture of him showing a lot of effort and progress.

 

I was mostly responding to the element of him getting away with as much as he can and you keeping him in line. Suppose you even manage to keep him in line 100%. That's not the right dynamic for a child to see their parents have.

 

Now, you made some points about other things that if he did them, you would not tolerate. Like Narcissistic behavior. Maybe have a point in that you having to keep him in line isn't as unhealthy for a child to see as Narcissistic rage. An then it just becomes weighing the advantages of keeping the family to together vs. having to keep him in line if you do.

 

"This husband, who isn't half the train wreck, is using textbook manipulation DESPITE KNOWING what his wife's experience is, and deep dissatisfaction, to keep her exactly where he wants her. He will play "nice" for the counselor and then pull the divorce card in private. How repugnant."

 

I'm starting to wonder if I understood this wrong. Here is what I got out of it:

 

He is currently less than half the train wreck he once was.

He is currently using text book manipulation.

He is currently using manipulation despite knowing how dissatisfied you are with it.

He is currently using the manipulation to keep you where he wants.

He is currently putting on an act for the counselor.

He is currently threatening to divorce you in private.

 

Did I get any of that wrong? If I got it right, that doesn't sound healthy.

 

Playing the divorce card I took to mean threatening divorce. That's where I got the pointing the guns at the deck. Now, I suppose if you know he doesn't mean it, that might be a little different, but I didn't hear that.

 

Your most recent post does make it more clear how far he has come and that he has gone some of the distance by self motivation and effort on his own part, as well as what the time frame on all of this has been. I also get the point about the 2014 relapse not being out of the blue, but triggered by the prescription that he then tried to get off of on his own.

 

I guess even if the current situation is not healthy, you have to look at how much progress has been made and effort by him. You did explain that much better the most recent time. Then you have to weigh how unhealthy the current situation against the progress and keeping the family together.

 

It makes more sense how you ended up on the path you're on.

 

Like I said, I understand wanting to save the family at any cost. In my case, the choice was out of my hands. I didn't get to make the decision.

 

So, when I read your stuff and it seemed you had prevailed in keeping things together. You had gotten some improvement. But the whole thing still sounded unhealthy, and with him threatening divorce on top of that. So, you got my reaction to that. My very last comment was meant to acknowledge that you were already on the path you were on, and that if you could make it work, I did see the upside, and it would make my reaction wrong.

 

A more careful description of all of his progress, how much of it was from self motivation, and over what timeframe does help to see why you are on the path you are on had have hope that you can make it work.

 

Your most recent post has enough to make that seem possible. But really only you are in a position to know whether there is reasonable hope. Whether there is reasonable hope of fixing what is unhealthy is the key question. When I posted the quote from the other thread about unhealthy relationships not being good for kids, I prefaced it with: "They had tried and tried to fix issues to the point where there was some question of whether it was reasonable to think they could ever be fixed."

 

Anyway, in explaining the progress, which parts were self motivated, and the timeframe, you went straight to the piece that I needed to see.

 

 

.

[dreamingoftigers]

That does make a clearer picture of him showing a lot of effort and progress.

 

I was mostly responding to the element of him getting away with as much as he can and you keeping him in line. Suppose you even manage to keep him in line 100%. That's not the right dynamic for a child to see their parents have.

 

Sorry, my timeline with him goes back pretty far, so there's a lot more improvement than that.

 

Currently, post-DV course communication vastly improved upon him realizing the passive- aggressive crap that he brought forward with him through childhood. The course was 14 and not light material. It was quite....blunt and a very big shift for him.

 

Now, you made some points about other things that if he did them, you would not tolerate. Like Narcissistic behavior. Maybe have a point in that you having to keep him in line isn't as unhealthy for a child to see as Narcissistic rage. An then it just becomes weighing the advantages of keeping the family to together vs. having to keep him in line if you do.

 

"This husband, who isn't half the train wreck, is using textbook manipulation DESPITE KNOWING what his wife's experience is, and deep dissatisfaction, to keep her exactly where he wants her. He will play "nice" for the counselor and then pull the divorce card in private. How repugnant."

 

I'm starting to wonder if I understood this wrong. Here is what I got out of it:

 

He is currently less than half the train wreck he once was.

He is currently using text book manipulation.

He is currently using manipulation despite knowing how dissatisfied you are with it.

He is currently using the manipulation to keep you where he wants.

He is currently putting on an act for the counselor.

He is currently threatening to divorce you in private.

 

Did I get any of that wrong? If I got it right, that doesn't sound healthy.

 

What I thought I showed was that, even though my husband was a train-wreck and did do these types of things years ago, that even he, who had a ton of baggage figured out this was destructive behaviour.

 

I can empathize with you and OP for having gone through this. Frankly, I came to a point where I never thought it would get any better, plus the physical stuff, the made me close the door and be incredibly reluctant to open it even a crack. I was quite surprised by him integrating things he learned, looking back at the skills he lacked and even coming to terms with his own childhood abuse. Which was, well, disgusting. And confirmed.

 

He's not one of those "I had a bad childhood, sob sob, that's why I beat up people, sob" kind of guys. It was more like, "I didn't realize how much I took this crap in and how much I poured it out all over everyone. So now that I know, I'm.not doing that anymore because I want you and our daughter to have good memories etc. With me."

 

My point was pretty much this: if my husband who was forced to drink his own urine as punishment (you read that right) can come through being that screwed-up and get to the point where he's not pulling the "divorce card" out, ...... Then surely the OP's medically-trained husband who most likely hasn't been through that garbage can figure out after MC how to treat her better.

 

Playing the divorce card I took to mean threatening divorce. That's where I got the pointing the guns at the deck. Now, I suppose if you know he doesn't mean it, that might be a little different, but I didn't hear that.

 

He used to, and it was deeply hurtful.

 

Your most recent post does make it more clear how far he has come and that he has gone some of the distance by self motivation and effort on his own part, as well as what the time frame on all of this has been. I also get the point about the 2014 relapse not being out of the blue, but triggered by the prescription that he then tried to get off of on his own.

 

I guess even if the current situation is not healthy, you have to look at how much progress has been made and effort by him. You did explain that much better the most recent time. Then you have to weigh how unhealthy the current situation against the progress and keeping the family together.

 

It makes more sense how you ended up on the path you're on.

 

Like I said, I understand wanting to save the family at any cost. In my case, the choice was out of my hands. I didn't get to make the decision.

 

So, when I read your stuff and it seemed you had prevailed in keeping things together. You had gotten some improvement. But the whole thing still sounded unhealthy, and with him threatening divorce on top of that. So, you got my reaction to that. My very last comment was meant to acknowledge that you were already on the path you were on, and that if you could make it work, I did see the upside, and it would make my reaction wrong.

 

A more careful description of all of his progress, how much of it was from self motivation, and over what timeframe does help to see why you are on the path you are on had have hope that you can make it work.

 

Your most recent post has enough to make that seem possible. But really only you are in a position to know whether there is reasonable hope. Whether there is reasonable hope of fixing what is unhealthy is the key question. When I posted the quote from the other thread about unhealthy relationships not being good for kids, I prefaced it with: "They had tried and tried to fix issues to the point where there was some question of whether it was reasonable to think they could ever be fixed."

 

Anyway, in explaining the progress, which parts were self motivated, and the timeframe, you went straight to the piece that I needed to see.

 

 

.

 

I guess maybe my writing about him etc. Shows me I haven't given him enough credit for what he has done.

 

I know that MANY MANY people with his issues DO give up or just keep projecting their garbage onto others, even to the point of losing then permanently. Your ex sounds like she would rather jettison people than word on her stuff, or even admit she has issues.

 

My husband gave up on blame shifting eventually. It rarely worked very well with me very long. I honestly don't understand why someone with his issues married someone with a backbone and the capacity to never give up on trying to figure it out. I was so ADAMANT. When he used to say, "that's it we're getting a divorce. I want a divorce etc." Even start dividing up our stuff.....

 

I would just say, "You want one, go get one. You know I won't file unless I feel I have to. So you better get the cash together and quit wasting my time."

 

Oh he'd get so pissed. I sometimes truly felt we'd be better off if he just pulled the ripcord. I wanted my family and I was very stubborn about it at the time. In my mind, I married a loyal, emotionally healthy partner. I wasn't going to settle on less but I wasn't going to just give up either. So we butted heads for YEARS, sorting it out. I simply wasn't going to accept responsibility for his behaviour and he wasn't going to "charm or rage" his way out of that. He or I could have left permanently. We just didn't. I honestly can't tell you exactly why.

 

Truth be told, I wouldn't have continued it much longer. Our daughter was getting older past the little toddler stage and shielding her from it wasn't going to work much longer. I really honestly hoped he would get help, but by that point I really didn't expect it to happen. I has already begun to plan a way out by the time stuff got physical. That was a major turning point for him.

[DevastatedDiva]

I'm still floundering. The job I thought I had didn't come through.

 

My therapist told me I was the most emotionally abused person he's ever treated in over 20 years of practice. He then said I have also come the farthest on my journey.

 

That helped.

[dreamingoftigers]

I'm still floundering. The job I thought I had didn't come through.

 

My therapist told me I was the most emotionally abused person he's ever treated in over 20 years of practice. He then said I have also come the farthest on my journey.

 

That helped.

 

That's good you are coming along.

Sorry the job didn't work out.

 

I'm glad you came back to let us know what's going on.

 

Are you getting together any other plans.

How are you feeling lately?

 

I'm guessing husband hasn't made any moves towards D.

[DevastatedDiva]

That's good you are coming along.

Sorry the job didn't work out.

 

I'm glad you came back to let us know what's going on.

 

Are you getting together any other plans.

How are you feeling lately?

 

I'm guessing husband hasn't made any moves towards D.

 

No moved have been made. I am banking what money I can. I have a friend who will put me up in America which will be a sticky wicket because he has the hots for me. I'm looking for some where else. The most important things I am going are saving money, looking for an American job, paying some bills off, ebaying old clothes.

 

I need to be able to pay half the mortgage here for a few months whilst STBEX sells and gives me half or buys me out and gives me my 1/2 M£. I am getting the papers drawn (expensive) as soon as I get a job, I will drop the papers and split. Getting a job more difficult than originally thought.

 

I'm saying very little.

[dreamingoftigers]

No moved have been made. I am banking what money I can. I have a friend who will put me up in America which will be a sticky wicket because he has the hots for me. I'm looking for some where else. The most important things I am going are saving money, looking for an American job, paying some bills off, ebaying old clothes.

 

I need to be able to pay half the mortgage here for a few months whilst STBEX sells and gives me half or buys me out and gives me my 1/2 M£. I am getting the papers drawn (expensive) as soon as I get a job, I will drop the papers and split. Getting a job more difficult than originally thought.

 

I'm saying very little.

 

I can imagine applying internationally would be quite a challenge. Please don't give up. We're all rooting for you!

[DevastatedDiva]

So if I have enough to pay half a mortgage for 4 months, how much more do I really need to leave? $20,000?

[turnera]

Hell, I've seen people leave and move on with $20 in their pockets. I know a girl who moved with her child and boyfriend from one city to another, and they didn't even have a car, let alone money. They just hitchhiked. And looked for jobs once they got there.

[66Charger]

You should be able to survive for a year on 20k. If you got it, go. Grind it out.

[DevastatedDiva]

You should be able to survive for a year on 20k. If you got it, go. Grind it out.

 

 

Thank you. I'm really scared, I'll need to buy a car because the friend I can stay with for a bit lives in a rural place.

 

This might be stupid but I don't want to leave STBX in a financially strapped place.

[66Charger]

You are right, that is stupid.

 

Take care of yourself. Send out some resumes before you leave. Use craigslust for cheap cars. Try to hit the ground running.

 

Good luck

[DevastatedDiva]

You are right, that is stupid.

 

Take care of yourself. Send out some resumes before you leave. Use craigslust for cheap cars. Try to hit the ground running.

 

Good luck

 

I've already sent over 300 in the last 5 weeks.

 

It seems like a good idea to make sure the house isn't lost so I don't lose pretty much everything I've worked for during the last 10 years.

 

Do I even say I'm going? Just disappear?

 

Overwhelmed!

[turnera]

You stop thinking about him and how he feels.

 

You take all the steps you need to take to ensure YOU get ahead in life - no matter what happens to him - and then once you have ensured that things are ok, THEN you consider whether to inform him.

[DevastatedDiva]

You stop thinking about him and how he feels.

 

You take all the steps you need to take to ensure YOU get ahead in life - no matter what happens to him - and then once you have ensured that things are ok, THEN you consider whether to inform him.

 

Thank you, I needed to hear this. DD

[DevastatedDiva]

He diverted his pay packet out of our joint account t "get my attention "

 

Attention for what is the question

[dreamingoftigers]

He diverted his pay packet out of our joint account t "get my attention "

 

Attention for what is the question

 

I guess to bring attention to the fact that he is also a financial abuser as well as an emotional and psychological one.

 

I think it's go time.

 

What do you think?

[Mr. Lucky]

He diverted his pay packet out of our joint account t "get my attention "

 

Attention for what is the question

 

And yet it's working, you're thinking about him and why he did it.

 

Someone like this only has as much power over you as you give them. Pay attention to their words and deeds, worry about their actions, stay vested in their outcome - you empower them.

 

Live your life, focus on your goals, keep your eyes on the prize - you empower yourself.

 

Ball is in your court ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[DevastatedDiva]

Your all right of course. I need the lawyers and a job now.