[I was] Asked for a divorce

[DevastatedDiva]

Tactics I use:

 

I had to walk around with a micro recorder to tape if there was anyone talking ... Meaning.. Whenever I asked a question the first time, I never heard a response. The second time I asked "I SAID YES!" (Or no or whatever)

 

Uh no you didn't.

 

I was accused of being deaf. I went and got a hearing check: it's 100% NOT deaf.

[testmeasure]

Tactics I use:

 

I had to walk around with a micro recorder to tape if there was anyone talking ... Meaning.. Whenever I asked a question the first time, I never heard a response. The second time I asked "I SAID YES!" (Or no or whatever)

 

Uh no you didn't.

 

I was accused of being deaf. I went and got a hearing check: it's 100% NOT deaf.

 

OMG I went through some kind of parallel universe. What I had was not the same thing. But this isn't right either. Can you watch the movie "gaslight". It's an old black and white movie. Can you watch it and tell me what you think?

 

I so got accused of not hearing things. And of my hearing being damaged.

[testmeasure]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPcYkxmhGs0

 

 

If they let me post this.

[TaraMaiden2]

(The one with Ingrid Bergman, Charles Boyer and Angela Lansbury [in her debut screen role] is better....)

[NewLeaf512]

Ten characters minimum

[testmeasure]

I didn't know there were 2 versions. I just knew it was an old black and white movie, so I just watched the first one I found, which apparently was the 1940 version.

 

I just finished watching the 1944 version. I think both of them are good.

 

The main difference between the two versions is the 1944 one shows the genesis of and progression. The 1940 version sort of jumps in with things already going on.

 

When you're in a situation like that, you don't get to see the genesis and progression, because it's like a frog being boiled, you just end up in the situation without realizing how you got there. So, in that sense, by jumping in, in the middle of things, the 1940 version captures more of the feel of being in a situation like that. But seeing the genesis and progression in the 1944 one was also helpful and interesting.

 

Because the 1944 version showed the very beginning, it seemed like it had more of a long, slow start before the interesting stuff started to happen.

 

The 1944 version makes me feel like an outsider looking in, because it shows the genesis and progression, you can see exactly what's going on, but she can't. By comparison, the 1940 version jumps in with things already in progress, and I felt much more right there along with her trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

 

I liked the retired police officer as the protagonist in the 1940 version more than the 1944 Scotland Yard guy who just happened to be a childhood fan of the aunt, who just happened to join Scotland yard, and who just happened to recognize the niece (because nieces look just like aunts?). Sort of like the lady across the street also just happened to be on the same train in Italy in the 1944 version.

 

I guess that I'm glad I watched the 1940 version first. Because if I had seen the 1944 version with the genesis and progression, the effect of the 1940 version of just being in the situation without knowing how you got there, and trying to figure what the heck is going on right along with her might have been less.

 

 

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Edited January 26, 2016 by testmeasure

[DevastatedDiva]

This is how I constantly feel. Like I'm living in an alternate universe where I have to use these strategies to assimilate with the alien I'm married to so he doesn't think I am strange and punish me.

[DevastatedDiva]

The problem is I don't like their strange planet where everything that's done and said makes me feel insane and everything I say is contradicted CONSTANTLY.

[testmeasure]

This is how I constantly feel. Like I'm living in an alternate universe where I have to use these strategies to assimilate with the alien I'm married to so he doesn't think I am strange and punish me.

 

The problem is I don't like their strange planet where everything that's done and said makes me feel insane and everything I say is contradicted CONSTANTLY.

 

 

 

This was your reaction to the movie?

 

Which version did you watch?

 

 

 

 

.

[DevastatedDiva]

This was your reaction to the movie?

 

Which version did you watch?

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

No that wasn't the reaction to the movie. I'm expressing how I used to feel. They are two long movies and I'm still watching.

[DevastatedDiva]

Gaslight seems to be about a man who is a thief and con artist with mental problems who is a master manipulator who will ruin anyone in his way to get jewels. However his tactic of making his wife think she's crazy is a purposeful design.

 

My spouse does similar to me except I think my spouse is worse in that there are no jewels, it's only my mental and physical destruction at hand.

[DevastatedDiva]

I was told adamantly, in front of 2 of spouses friends that we could do IVF 8 years ago. When I started asking for it, spouse said "I never said that". "I'm not doing it" I was told the conversation never took place.

[testmeasure]

[it] is worse in that there are no jewels, it's only my mental and physical destruction at hand.

 

OMG. That is my fundamental reaction to the movie. I watched it, and I was like, huh? The real thing is that people can just be that way, not for jewels. The whole world they just described can't always be reduced to a bank robbery or money grab.

 

It's like Hollywood had to create a "reason" for people to be like that. I know they can just be like that for no valid reason what so ever. Not for jewels, but because a dad is taking care of his daughter!?!

 

I thought about explaining that as the main flaw with both of these versions. But I felt it would "give away" the ending.

 

I just think Hollywood has to have a bottom line reason for it, otherwise, no one can understand it. Chalk it up to normal people couldn't understand the film without the rubies, so it had to be put in. We can watch it and say, nope. Some people just are that way.

[testmeasure]

I was told adamantly, in front of 2 of spouses friends that we could do IVF 8 years ago. When I started asking for it, spouse said "I never said that". "I'm not doing it" I was told the conversation never took place.

 

So, you wanted to have kids and he took that too? IVF = In Vetro Fertilization right? At our age (no putdown, you and I are similar age - I may not have an egg problem, but I don't have all my hair either) my understanding is that if they did IVF they would not even favor using your eggs. For a number of years prior to this even. I'm starting to realize experts would probably have favored using donor eggs at the age my ex got naturally pregnant by me.

 

We spent all our time together, lived remotely, and had everything genetically tested, as well as a paternity test, so there is pretty much no question, other than how did it happen? How did we thread the needle of hitting the tinny chance? How did we do it, at her age, under the later apparent conditions she was under. Yet there is the proof. I have a daughter that fully tests out as mine. If the healthy cutoff age for this is 35, and you are 45, we managed to do it with great complication and her being somewhere about half way between those.

 

I wish I had a better answer for you.

 

Hopefully anything other just powers the resolve for change.

 

 

.

Edited January 27, 2016 by testmeasure

[DevastatedDiva]

So, you wanted to have kids and he took that too? IVF = In Vetro Fertilization right? At our age (no putdown, you and I are similar age - I may not have an egg problem, but I don't have all my hair either) my understanding is that if they did IVF they would not even favor using your eggs. For a number of years prior to this even. I'm starting to realize experts would probably have favored using donor eggs at the age my ex got naturally pregnant by me.

 

We spent all our time together, lived remotely, and had everything genetically tested, as well as a paternity test, so there is pretty much no question, other than how did it happen at her age, under the later apparent conditions she was under. Yet there is the proof. I have a daughter that fully tests out as mine. If the healthy cutoff age for this is 35, and you are 45, we managed to do it with great complication and her being somewhere about half way between those.

 

I wish I had a better answer for you.

 

Hopefully anything other just powers the resolve for change.

 

 

.

 

It's too late for me now. But at age 34 it would have been just fine. Now that I have seen the movie it makes it worse because in my life there is no reason, no jewels no anything else.

[testmeasure]

It's too late for me now. But at age 34 it would have been just fine. Now that I have seen the movie it makes it worse because in my life there is no reason, no jewels no anything else.

 

And no, please understand that. For those of us in this world there is no bank robbery or jewels we can point to in order to explain it. And that's the thing. That's the actual thing of it. They don't sign their work and take responsibility for it. There is no account or money you can point to.

 

Now you sound like me. No one is behind bars. No one beat another person's face in. But, can't you just imagine there is something very bad that minds could do to each other? No, it's not about jewels, jail, or skull bashing. It's about where minds go. And yes, they can go some very bad places.

 

This is about where minds go. He's not going to show you the light. A movie about jewels is not going to show you the light. You have to open up to see what happens every day, without fail, day in, day out. You have to find your own light. I think you have.

Edited January 27, 2016 by testmeasure

[testmeasure]

It's still not going to let me send you a message. A quick search shows me that people talk about a certain number of posts and 30 days. What I have isn't urgent, just too specific for me to post in public.

 

If you like the movie, maybe you would find BPDFamily.com interesting. There was a guy here on Love Shack that I wanted to talk to before the messaging was working here for me. I ended up being able to talk to him right away over there. I'm on that site because in my case it's not just that I had a relationship with a person capable of emotional abuse, and got out of it. I have a child, and so there is going to be ongoing coparenting. Every book about the subject seems to predict that these people absolutely will do this emotional abuse to their children. So, I need to understand it as well as I can. BPDFamily would certainly provide more examples of why sometimes marriages need to end even if there's nothing physical. It also helps keep perspective to see that no matter how bad your situation is, there are people in worse situations. They also have a section about recovering from relationships like this "Detaching from the Wounds of a failed BPD Relationship".

.

Edited January 27, 2016 by testmeasure

[DevastatedDiva]

It's still not going to let me send you a message. A quick search shows me that people talk about a certain number of posts and 30 days. What I have isn't urgent, just too specific for me to post in public.

 

If you like the movie, maybe you would find BPDFamily.com interesting. There was a guy here on Love Shack that I wanted to talk to before the messaging was working here for me. I ended up being able to talk to him right away over there. I'm on that site because in my case it's not just that I had a relationship with a person capable of emotional abuse, and got out of it. I have a child, and so there is going to be ongoing coparenting. Every book about the subject seems to predict that these people absolutely will do this emotional abuse to their children. So, I need to understand it as well as I can. BPDFamily would certainly provide more examples of why sometimes marriages need to end even if there's nothing physical. It also helps keep perspective to see that no matter how bad your situation is, there are people in worse situations. They also have a section about recovering from relationships like this "Detaching from the Wounds of a failed BPD Relationship".

.

 

 

I can have a look. All of the behaviours that I cope with were shown in that movie plus I deal with a lot more. To be honest I just accepted it as normal. The first 6 months of this relationship were the most magical of my life. I thought I was the most loved and luckiest lady alive. Since then I have been trying to figure out what I've done wrong and why everything changed. To that end I've been trying everything to make it all ok and to be loved again for about 10 years.

[testmeasure]

It isn't normal. It's quite wrong and possibly damaging. It may be hard to put together the full extent of that until you are outside of the situation, looking back on it.

 

Another thing I found extremely helpful is Youtube videos by people who experienced the same kind of environment I did. They founds words to describe what they had experienced, insights and ways of thinking about it that would be very hard for someone who hadn't experienced the same thing to understand. Seeing others describe the same thing I went through, and how it effected them and what they learned from it was very validating and educational.

 

My environment was not quite the same as yours. So, I can't point you at specific things. But, the concept of "Gaslighting" has been pulled from those movies and used as a general term for that kind of behavior. So, maybe start off poking around Youtube searching for "Gaslighting" and see where that leads you. A lot of it may be junk, but if you can find someone who was in the same kind of dry, cold, passive aggressive environment for a long time and posted a bunch of videos, it might be very insightful.

 

For example, there was a young guy, who was describing his dad. Apparently the dad was a Narcissist. The guy was describing how the dad would get angry and what the dad would do, and how it made him feel. I could tell this kid knew exactly what narcissistic rage was and had experienced a form of it being expressed almost exactly the same my ex expressed it.

 

I talk a lot with people who had an ex that had Borderline Personality Disorder. The borderline person on a bad will do a lot of things that I can really identify with when the people who experienced it describe it. However when I get into describing narcissistic rage, sometimes they don't get it or have a kind of different view of what narcissism is. I just think of that kid, who couldn't have been very far out of high school. He would have understood what I was trying to say.

 

With these things there is a very large aspect of it being almost impossible for anyone who hasn't experienced something like it to possibly understand what you're describing. Meanwhile hearing from others who experienced it has a very rich payoff in terms of learning and understanding.

 

Anyway, just trying to offer more of what I found helpful. The movie is not as similar to the environment I was in, and I didn't really expect the full extent of your reaction to it. The thing about his direct denials and the micro-recorder of course made me think of it immediately. But I really didn't anticipate you saying that you live in that constantly with your only objection being the same as mine, that yes but what is worse is some people are just like that, not for rubies.

Edited January 29, 2016 by testmeasure

[DevastatedDiva]

It isn't normal. It's quite wrong and possibly damaging. It may be hard to put together the full extent of that until you are outside of the situation, looking back on it.

 

Another thing I found extremely helpful is Youtube videos by people who experienced the same kind of environment I did. They founds words to describe what they had experienced, insights and ways of thinking about it that would be very hard for someone who hadn't experienced the same thing to understand. Seeing others describe the same thing I went through, and how it effected them and what they learned from it was very validating and educational.

 

My environment was not quite the same as yours. So, I can't point you at specific things. But, the concept of "Gaslighting" has been pulled from those movies and used as a general term for that kind of behavior. So, maybe start off poking around Youtube searching for "Gaslighting" and see where that leads you. A lot of it may be junk, but if you can find someone who was in the same kind of dry, cold, passive aggressive environment for a long time and posted a bunch of videos, it might be very insightful.

 

For example, there was a young guy, who was describing his dad. Apparently the dad was a Narcissist. The guy was describing how the dad would get angry and what the dad would do, and how it made him feel. I could tell this kid knew exactly what narcissistic rage was and had experienced a form of it being expressed almost exactly the same my ex expressed it.

 

I talk a lot with people who had an ex that had Borderline Personality Disorder. The borderline person on a bad will do a lot of things that I can really identify with when the people who experienced it describe it. However when I get into describing narcissistic rage, sometimes they don't get it or have a kind of different view of what narcissism is. I just think of that kid, who couldn't have been very far out of high school. He would have understood what I was trying to say.

 

With these things there is a very large aspect of it being almost impossible for anyone who hasn't experienced something like it to possibly understand what you're describing. Meanwhile hearing from others who experienced it has a very rich payoff in terms of learning and understanding.

 

Anyway, just trying to offer more of what I found helpful. The movie is not as similar to the environment I was in, and I didn't really expect the full extent of your reaction to it. The thing about his direct denials and the micro-recorder of course made me think of it immediately. But I really didn't anticipate you saying that you live in that constantly with your only objection being the same as mine, that yes but what is worse is some people are just like that, not for rubies.

 

 

Thanks for your response. I have joined the site you mentioned.

 

My spouse just went out to the store and gave me a kiss on the cheek. First time in 5 years. This isn't a sign of wanting an R, it's just another nail in the mind f*ck I call "my life"

[testmeasure]

It looks like we've both joined the other site under different names. If you can post something identifiable to "Detaching from the Wounds of a failed BPD Relationship", I'll try to respond. Yes, you're not actually trying to detach from the wounds of a BPD relationship but within that they mean detaching from a dysfunctional situation. You're trying to detach from a colder more calculated situation. That doesn't make it less the same, but possibly a reflection of the cards you might play.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thanks for your response. I have joined the site you mentioned.

 

My spouse just went out to the store and gave me a kiss on the cheek. First time in 5 years. This isn't a sign of wanting an R, it's just another nail in the mind f*ck I call "my life"

 

If he locks up that you are pulling away, the changes the dynamic a bit and he might start doing small things to interest you.

 

That's pretty typical.

 

But TBH, the only way I could really gauge intent after so long with dealing with my H's BS was of he was willing etc. to be intimate. That may sound extreme, but I bad gotten used to him lying, playing me a fool etc.

[DevastatedDiva]

It looks like we've both joined the other site under different names. If you can post something identifiable to "Detaching from the Wounds of a failed BPD Relationship", I'll try to respond. Yes, you're not actually trying to detach from the wounds of a BPD relationship but within that they mean detaching from a dysfunctional situation. You're trying to detach from a colder more calculated situation. That doesn't make it less the same, but possibly a reflection of the cards you might play.

 

 

You will find me I am sure. I do hope you respond.

[DevastatedDiva]

If he locks up that you are pulling away, the changes the dynamic a bit and he might start doing small things to interest you.

 

That's pretty typical.

 

But TBH, the only way I could really gauge intent after so long with dealing with my H's BS was of he was willing etc. to be intimate. That may sound extreme, but I bad gotten used to him lying, playing me a fool etc.

 

DOT.. This is just a mind f*ck like every other mind f*ck.

 

I was promised that we could move back to America and keep our place here for retirement. Went through the pain of obtaining a greencard. The expense. Went to America to have it stamped and made valid. We haven't been back since and no plans to visit.

 

TBH I can't even imagine what being intimate is like anymore. I don't feel like a woman I feel like a thing. A sexless breathing human thing. Even if I never have sex again, I want that to be because I CHOOSE not to, not because someone has chosen for me.

[dreamingoftigers]

DOT.. This is just a mind f*ck like every other mind f*ck.

 

I was promised that we could move back to America and keep our place here for retirement. Went through the pain of obtaining a greencard. The expense. Went to America to have it stamped and made valid. We haven't been back since and no plans to visit.

 

TBH I can't even imagine what being intimate is like anymore. I don't feel like a woman I feel like a thing. A sexless breathing human thing. Even if I never have sex again, I want th at to be because I CHOOSE not to, not because someone has chosen for me.

 

I didn't mean the capitulate to that, if he initiated.

 

I truly understand what you mean about not feeling like a woman. I truly didn't feel like a female at all, like I was just some kind of outlier that wasn't invited "in the club." My husband never tells me that I am beautiful etc. On the rare day I get a "you look nice" I got a "you look pretty" in December and I nearly fell over.

 

Yes, when he was stepping out he had no problem gushing to these hos online about hot they looked.

 

I used to feel like I should just have my private parts sewn shut. I mean, they weren't really in use anyway.

 

I find people who force their spouses into a sexless relationship by using their vows against them, the ones that KNOW their spouses want more etc. To be really controlling. And lack am incredible amount in empathy.