[I was] Asked for a divorce

[Miss Peach]

I went through a divorce and it was a very difficult time in my life. I felt bad for breaking my vows. In my case I filed for it.

 

The thing was that to my XH, he really didn't want to DO anything to make it work as a marriage. He just wanted to placate me and for things to return to normal. Normal didn't work for me and I have no doubt it would have left me just a shell of a person. That was when I knew it was over whether we divorced or not. I would have kept going if I saw even one action from XH that he was taking it seriously.

[testmeasure]

I think a big part of what people responding take into account is whether both people want to work things out.

 

A marriage takes 2. A marriage can't exist without 2 people.

 

Cheating is bad, it's awful. Imagine it being as bad as you want, the worst thing in the world. I have no idea how bad, I've never experienced it from myself or a partner (that I know of). So I can't imagine.

 

However bad cheating is, if the 2 people still want to work the marriage out, it's possible. People will try to help hem.

 

Where there is repeat actions that speak louder than words, even if both people are saying they want to make it work, I think outside advice will see that one of them really does not.

 

No mater how bad a story is that ends a marriage, you can always find a worse story. There is a whole range of them.

 

It's tempting to look at a story where nothing bad happened and compare it to a story where horrible stuff happened and think why should the outcome of these 2 be the same?

 

In the horrible stories the divorce seems understandable. In some of the not so bad stories, the biggest downside may well be that you never really understand why it happened.

 

I think the key thing is you painted a clear picture of yourself as still wanting to make it work, but your husband as having not having any interest on so many levels for so long. Maybe you've gotten used to that, but I think that's what's getting such a strong response from new eyes with an outside perspective.

 

If you had painted a picture of someone with Aspergers who was really trying and struggling to show affection, but having a very hard time, getting frustrated and wanting to call it off for that reason, I think people would probably weigh how badly you were being treated against what hope and possibility there was to improve your situation.

 

I guess the point would be if you want advice on how to save it, you have to give people some basis for thinking it can be saved. What hope is there that he can still want to be married? What signs or indications does he give you that this could ever be recovered from?

 

It may not be fair that it doesn't mater how bad or horrible other stories are. If there aren't 2 people in this together, both wanting it, and there haven't been on so many levels for so long, it doesn't sound like a marriage anymore.

 

As a side point, It is my personal opinion that childhood abuse and trauma can cause emotional damage that might look like Asperger's in a lot of social situations. Instead of Asperger's, the person's emotional development is interrupted. They end up having toddler like emotions the rest of their life. This can manifest itself in a number of ways depending on how they cope with it. But, much like Asperger's, they have to learn their social skills because their gut reaction to everything is not reliable. Unlike Asperger's, they would have extreme, intense and shifting unpredictable emotions (like a toddler). They would also only be able to experience one emotion at a time. So things would be all good or all bad, so you would get black and white thinking. There are some methods of coping with these intense emotions that keep them repressed or in check for a time.

 

If any of that rings a bell with you or you can identify with it, you might want to look into Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder. My ex explained away her social awkwardness for almost 10 years as being Asperger's. Any time her emotions were a little off or her reaction to something wasn't quite right, it was Asperger's. Then when we had a child together, it threw off her coping mechanism and I got to see just how damaged she was emotionally. Loss of her coping mechanism kept her in a negative place and I got to experience a year long temper tantrum before she filed for divorce on me that certainly can not be explained by Asperger's, but fits perfectly with how people describe Narcissistic rage.

 

 

.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thank you for this. My partner actually has Asperger's. It manifests in extremely pedantic and exacting behaviour which is often quite rude. An example would be:

 

There is a jar filled with jellybeans. You are describing it to someone, and say "I have a jar with 100 jellybeans in it". If my partner hears this, and somehow knows differently, without any regard for context or company bellows out: "you're lying! You're wrong. There are 98 jellybeans in the jar!".[/Quote]

 

My brother and sister are both autistic. (My brother now quite significantly brain-injured due to medical error). He sounds very much like my sister who is a savant in both memory and spatial relations. On one level I can also empathize with being frustrated with facts vs. estimations. I get it. Oh boy do I get it. LMAO.

 

Brilliant doctor, you bet. Fun to make small talk with? Not so much.

 

Did you and your partner divorce?

 

If so how did you get through it?

 

Thank you

 

My partner and I did not divorce.

 

However, our relationship has been rather complicated and not so clean-cut for a lot of years.

 

In fact, I would say that I have not made the wisest decisions regarding it.

 

Although the behaviours exhibited by the, shall we say, lack of bedroom time are similar and I can honestly, incredibly hurtful over the years.....

 

That is where our stories diverge a great deal.

 

My husband's issues were more linked to addiction with underlying mental health and mostly childhood issues.

 

My desire to remain married and keep hammering away at it I suspect is linked to having an incredibly wicked abandonment trigger.

 

Last year he pulled too hard on the trigger and went away for too long, I started to recover quite well and did not anticipate nor actually appreciate his return at first.

 

We are well-matched in many ways, but in a critical way we are very VERY VERY ill-suited.

Due to his childhood issues and traumas he is VERY sensitively triggered to feeling "Trapped" and basically responds by running away and numbing himself. I am very sensitively triggered by abandonment.

 

At those points, which have flashed often, and his addiction issues very much complicate things, we basically stomp on each other emotionally and in a panic.

 

Ironically, his frequent abandonment was like "exposure therapy" and I have made leaps and bounds with this trauma-trigger which used to actually hospitalize me in my late teens and early 20s. Now I can refocus if I need to but it does wreck my day.

 

It took him pulling back quite far and then testing and testing to see if he was going to get "pulled in" again. Which isn't really my style, but he definitely has a great fear (really paranoia) when it comes to me doing so. I should qualify that as a child he would be locked into his room as soon as he got home and often wouldn't be allowed to even use a washroom. I don't need to go much further, I am sure you see how one could end up pretty screwed-up over that.

 

Well, he plugged away at his addiction issues (not the first time I might add) but this time seemed to be all in for himself and because he wanted to remain our daughter's Dad. Our relationship lacked certainty at the time (well, really I was quite a bit done). But without the fear of lock-down and booze he gained quite a bit of clarity and I noticed he gained quite a bit of personal power where he had previously seemed rather weak. It was pretty helpful.

 

We go for weekly counseling together. I hold no illusions, he can go off anytime and end up in the wind. I go to weekly counseling and he goes to addiction therapy. It's seemingly stable but I am always fearful to claim that.

 

I am happier and he seems to be much happier as well.

[DevastatedDiva]

I think a big part of what people responding take into account is whether both people want to work things out.

 

A marriage takes 2. A marriage can't exist without 2 people.

 

 

I think the key thing is you painted a clear picture of yourself as still wanting to make it work, but your husband as having not having any interest on so many levels for so long. Maybe you've gotten used to that, but I think that's what's getting such a strong response from new eyes with an outside perspective.

 

If you had painted a picture of someone with Aspergers who was really trying and struggling to show affection, but having a very hard time, getting frustrated and wanting to call it off for that reason, I think people would probably weigh how badly you were being treated against what hope and possibility there was to improve your situation.

 

I guess the point would be if you want advice on how to save it, you have to give people some basis for thinking it can be saved. What hope is there that he can still want to be married? What signs or indications does he give you that this could ever be recovered from?

 

There is probably no hope. The only positive was the statement at the last session of MC 2 weeks ago. "I want to try, I want this to work." Words are just words. There has been no action.

 

As a side point, It is my personal opinion that childhood abuse and trauma can cause emotional damage that might look like Asperger's in a lot of social situations. Instead of Asperger's, the person's emotional development is interrupted. They end up having toddler like emotions the rest of their life. This can manifest itself in a number of ways depending on how they cope with it. But, much like Asperger's, they have to learn their social skills because their gut reaction to everything is not reliable. Unlike Asperger's, they would have extreme, intense and shifting unpredictable emotions (like a toddler). They would also only be able to experience one emotion at a time. So things would be all good or all bad, so you would get black and white thinking. There are some methods of coping with these intense emotions that keep them repressed or in check for a time.

 

If any of that rings a bell with you or you can identify with it, you might want to look into Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder. My ex explained away her social awkwardness for almost 10 years as being Asperger's. Any time her emotions were a little off or her reaction to something wasn't quite right, it was Asperger's. Then when we had a child together, it threw off her coping mechanism and I got to see just how damaged she was emotionally. Loss of her coping mechanism kept her in a negative place and I got to experience a year long temper tantrum before she filed for divorce on me that certainly can not be explained by Asperger's, but fits perfectly with how people describe Narcissistic rage.

 

The Asperger's in not in any way in contention. Sensory therapy etc. Has been going on for almost 25 years. There is a PD. It's passive aggressive personality disorder. My partner's profession is an esteemed member of the medical community here. Both the diagnosises are true and correct

 

 

.

 

Thank you for this amazing reply. It really made me think deeply about the situation.

[DevastatedDiva]

My brother and sister are both autistic. (My brother now quite significantly brain-injured due to medical error). He sounds very much like my sister who is a savant in both memory and spatial relations. On one level I can also empathize with being frustrated with facts vs. estimations. I get it. Oh boy do I get it. LMAO.

 

 

 

My partner and I did not divorce.

 

However, our relationship has been rather complicated and not so clean-cut for a lot of years.

 

In fact, I would say that I have not made the wisest decisions regarding it.

 

Although the behaviours exhibited by the, shall we say, lack of bedroom time are similar and I can honestly, incredibly hurtful over the years.....

 

That is where our stories diverge a great deal.

 

My husband's issues were more linked to addiction with underlying mental health and mostly childhood issues.

 

My desire to remain married and keep hammering away at it I suspect is linked to having an incredibly wicked abandonment trigger.

 

We go for weekly counseling together. I hold no illusions, he can go off anytime and end up in the wind. I go to weekly counseling and he goes to addiction therapy. It's seemingly stable but I am always fearful to claim that.

 

I am happier and he seems to be much happier as well.

 

 

Thank you for relating to the autism. I always think of it as God giveths and God taketh away. The incredible gifts like eidetic memory for reading or oratory and names, the taketh that there was no pleasure in having the skill.

 

The feeling of finding people interesting, but those people annoyed and exhasberated by the blunt, sarsactic, pedantic, and persnickety nature of all communication isn't very endearing. That was/is painful to my partner.

 

The whole existence here in the house revolves around work. We had tea at 6 to 6:30 and then the Professor commenced surgical films from the last three weeks broken only by University Challange and the pauses to speak notes into the dictaphone.

 

Every

Single

Night

 

Except when there Is no university Challange. Then it's or movies.

 

We are both from broken homes and my parents are now gone. Thats why my vows mean so much to me and God.

 

The no sex has me feeling so ugly. I'm going to work on it. I have to be healthy and I will be happy again.

 

My question is why do people get married if it does not mean it?

[Mr. Lucky]

My question is why do people get married if it does not mean it?

 

Are there circumstances under which you think it's appropriate to terminate a marriage ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[DevastatedDiva]

Are there circumstances under which you think it's appropriate to terminate a marriage ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

That's not the question I am asking. I see what you are smoothly trying to do so I will answer

 

Physical Abuse

Uncontrolled/ Untreated Substance Abuse

untreated compulsive gambling

Adultery

Incarceration

Joining a cult

Committing a crime under the serious crime act ( murder, child rape)

[testmeasure]

When the relationship becomes psychologically damaging?

 

When the relationship has been unfixably hollow and empty for years?

 

When only a single party consents to the relationship continuing? (If you had the enforcement authority to make him unwillingly follow his vows, would you actually use it?)

 

I'm just saying, there are more subtle things than broken bones and behind bars, that have significant damage attached to them.

 

In my case my relationship was probably psychologically damaging. At one point my ex yelled at me don't act all hen pecked you're not hen pecked. I answered I don't feel hen pecked, I'm not trying to act hen pecked. If anything I feel shell shocked. I never know when I'm going to get in trouble again.

 

It turns out living in an environment of constant hostility and uncertainty actually re-wires the nervous system to be in a constant "on" state of fear and anxiety. I was literally exactly correct because being shell shocked is exactly that reaction to war, a hostile and uncertain environment.

 

Months later just as a person home from war might duck and cover if a car backfired, the sight of my ex at a handoff of our daughter made me physically sick to my stomach with fear and anxiety.

 

No one's in jail. No one's dead. No one's punching the living daylights out of the other one. There is nothing in the physical real world to point at. Months into her behavior, we were still going to the grocery store and shopping together for Peat's sake. There are just "issues". Major psychological issues. It needs to end.

 

Mental or mind based reasons for a marriage failure are as real as physical ones. If you expanded your list to include "mind crimes", what could you think to add? This might be the real challenge point for you. I know that as an educated person and an abstract thinker, I tend to assume there is no mental thing I can't overcome. It turns out even if you know the whole story is framed incorrectly and the context is wrong so the conclusions are questionable, and you know what you believe, if under that you choose to exist in an environment where you are subjected to adverse conditions, guess what, adverse conditions will in turn effect you.

 

I'm just saying your list is all skull bashing and being behind bars. You need to think and expand this to where minds go. Because they go there.

 

You can't tell me that a mind couldn't figure a way so wrong that it would be totally wrong without bashing or breaking or cheating with a physical object

 

Your list is totally devoid of any mental crimes? Ok so mental stuff can't quite be a crime. But the mental stuff touches your relationship mid field. It's not an out there 1off physical misfire. It's not an in here intellectual connection. It's the layer required before that and it seems totally broken with an inability to supply it.

 

 

I do find one thing as perplexing as you seem to. He was invested enough to participate in counseling and came away with the conclusion that you guys would work it out. In other areas, it sounds like he is methodical and systematic. To invest in that, go through it, come away with that conclusion and so quickly contradict it seems out of place. I agree with you that is a piece that doesn't seem to fit here. I have to assume he took the counseling very seriously given all of the surrounding context, making this one particular non-fitting piece all the more strange.

 

The emotional damage stuff was a shot in the dark. I already understood you guys had an educated background. Also you hadn't mentioned anything that would imply out of control emotions. I have an educated background (all in fields totally unrelated to any of this), but my ex was still able to convince me anything strange about her behavior was Asperger's for almost a decade. Yet once things didn't go her way, what she displayed was not anything like Asperger's. So, I knew it was a longshot in your case.

 

I'm curious about what a passive aggressive personality disorder is. Can you elaborate on that. This isn't my field of expertise. I've been learning about Cluster B personality disorders because the descriptions match a lot of what I experienced. A passive aggressive disorder seems somewhat related, so I'd be very interested in any direction you could point me on that.

 

 

.

Edited January 19, 2016 by testmeasure

[Mr. Lucky]

That's not the question I am asking. I see what you are smoothly trying to do so I will answer

 

Physical Abuse

Uncontrolled/ Untreated Substance Abuse

untreated compulsive gambling

Adultery

Incarceration

Joining a cult

Committing a crime under the serious crime act ( murder, child rape)

 

I'm rarely accused of acting smoothly .

 

I'm going to bow out of your thread, don't seem to be helping. I will say I don't understand the selective emphasis on certain vows - why is " forsaking all others" important but "love her, comfort and keep her" isn't?

 

If given a choice between infidelity, emotional starvation and extreme sexual neglect, I'd choose "none of the above". Hope you find the answers you're looking for...

 

Mr. Lucky

[DevastatedDiva]

When the relationship becomes psychologically damaging?

 

 

 

When only a single party consents to the relationship continuing? (If you had the enforcement authority to make him unwillingly follow his vows, would you actually use it?) I would hope God would step in and intercede.[/b

 

It turns out living in an environment of constant hostility and uncertainty actually re-wires the nervous system to be in a constant "on" state of fear and anxiety. I was literally exactly correct because being shell shocked is exactly that reaction to war, a hostile and uncertain environment. The above rings true to me

 

Months later just as a person home from war might duck and cover if a car backfired, the sight of my ex at a handoff of our daughter made me physically sick to my stomach with fear and anxietywhen I call the house

 

 

Mental or mind based reasons for a marriage failure are as real as physical ones. If you expanded your list to include "mind crimes", what could you think to add? This might be the real challenge point for you. I know that as an educated person and an abstract thinker, I tend to assume there is no mental thing I can't overcome. It turns out even if you know the whole story is framed incorrectly and the context is wrong so the conclusions are questionable, and you know what you believe, if under that you choose to exist in an environment where you are subjected to adverse conditions, guess what, adverse conditions will in turn effect you.

 

I'm just saying your list is all skull bashing and being behind bars. You need to think and expand this to where minds go. Because they go there. Not in the vows I took

 

You can't tell me that a mind couldn't figure a way so wrong that it would be totally wrong without bashing or breaking or cheating with a physical object

 

Your list is totally devoid of any mental crimes? Ok so mental stuff can't quite be a crime. But the mental stuff touches your relationship mid field. It's not an out there 1off physical misfire. It's not an in here intellectual connection. It's the layer required before that and it seems totally broken with an inability to supply it.agree

 

 

I do find one thing as perplexing as you seem to. He was invested enough to participate in counseling and came away with the conclusion that you guys would work it out. In other areas, it sounds like he is methodical and systematic. To invest in that, go through it, come away with that conclusion and so quickly contradict it seems out of place. I agree with you that is a piece that doesn't seem to fit here. I have to assume he took the counseling very seriously given all of the surrounding context, making this one particular non-fitting piece all the more strange.one of the flavours of passive aggressive disorder, agreeing to do things, even promising to do something and can even be timed and they don't do it or apologise an example is the therapist said we should hold hands 2 min a day. We went to therapy for 4.5 month. It never happened. Reason from partner? 'There never seemed to be a good time"

 

The emotional damage stuff was a shot in the dark. I already understood you guys had an educated background. Also you hadn't mentioned anything that would imply out of control emotions. I have an educated background (all in fields totally unrelated to any of this), but my ex was still able to convince me anything strange about her behavior was Asperger's for almost a decade. Sadly the Asperger's makes my spouse an expert in a particular field known far and wide.

 

I'm curious about what a passive aggressive personality disorder is. Can you elaborate on that. This isn't my field of expertise. I've been learning about Cluster B personality disorders because the descriptions match a lot of what I experienced. A passive aggressive disorder seems somewhat related, so I'd be very interested in any direction you could point me on that.

 

Passive agreesive takes many forms

 

Light PA: your spouse is down and wearing a scowl. You enquirer what's wron? "nothing" obviously something is so you press on "nothing" again "nothing" you give up. 2 weeks later your spouse is yelling at you... "This is just like two weeks ago Saturday when you pissed me off by making pasta and pretended you didn't know why I was mad"

 

 

Heavy "you do all the admin. I want to do it because I don't know enough. I want to be responsible for the pet passports. "Are you sure? There's appointments and paperwork and posting to meet deadlines. If it's not right we can't take the dogs" yes! (I see nothing happen in 2 weeks give gentle reminder. Response: Saturday is set aside. Sat comes and goes, nothing ask again get new date 6 weeks before I mail all forms, never did a thing. If I didn't mail and do appointments dogs would be in kennel probably dead. Reason spouse didn't want dogs on the trip.

 

 

.

 

I'm starting to see the light

[DevastatedDiva]

I'm rarely accused of acting smoothly .

 

I'm going to bow out of your thread, don't seem to be helping. I will say I don't understand the selective emphasis on certain vows - why is " forsaking all others" important but "love her, comfort and keep her" isn't?

 

If given a choice between infidelity, emotional starvation and extreme sexual neglect, I'd choose "none of the above". Hope you find the answers you're looking for...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

This changed my mind. I need a divorce and I'm terrified. That's my life, emotional starvation and sexual neglect.

[66Charger]

As terrified as you are, once you receive emotional AND SEXUAL love, the only thing you will think about is why you waited so long. Waiting for nothing is awful.

 

You are missing life. It is passing you by.

 

It is time to go.

Edited January 22, 2016 by 66Charger

[dreamingoftigers]

This changed my mind. I need a divorce and I'm terrified. That's my life, emotional starvation and sexual neglect.

 

I'm sorry I didn't come back sooner.

 

I as well felt very overwhelmed by divorce.

Cripplingly so.

It's okay. Baby steps.

 

It will come with acceptance.

[HopeForTomorrow]

We haven't had sex in 10.5 years because my spouse "doesn't feel sexual anymore" and "want s to be celibate". My spouse has mild Asperger's. I tried for 2 years to work on this, there are no physical issues. It's just the preference. I've sadly accepted it because my vows mean something to me. I'm feeling like a total failure. It's been a very sad life.

 

This is not acceptable. Living in the same location, same house, as someone who is a partner and the lack of sex for over a decade is proof of a serious issue. Now... if you were living apart and it were only a few months, that would be completely different. But it has been a decade and you have tried for years. In your shoes, I would leave and find someone who really respects you, really wants you above all others. And who SHOWS it to you. This guy isn't it.

 

I have little knowledge directly or otherwise on asperbergers. Other then an inabilty to have empathy or correlate on social norms.

 

With the lack of empathy thing and social norms I think you're thinking of sociopath. Very different. I have 2 sons who have been diagnosed with Asperger's - 19 and 21 years of age. They are both socially successful and not hindered in any way now, but raising them was a challenge sometimes.

 

Actually in 2005, the DSM-V replaced Asperger's as a diagnosis and it's now under the umbrella of "Autism Spectrum Disorder".

 

As an aside, my youngest son (the 19 year old) is a savant. When he was young we were astounded at his visual memory, and we tested it. We wrote down 12 random numerical digits on a piece of paper, showed it to him for about 15 seconds, and then turned it over and asked him to recite it. He recited them perfectly. Then we waited half an hour (not showing them to him again) and asked him to recite them backwards. He recited them perfectly.

 

I don't think your husband's mild Aspie diagnosis is responsible for what you are going through, OP. I think you should walk.

[testmeasure]

Light PA: your spouse is down and wearing a scowl. You enquirer what's wron? "nothing" obviously something is so you press on "nothing" again "nothing" you give up. 2 weeks later your spouse is yelling at you... "This is just like two weeks ago Saturday when you pissed me off by making pasta and pretended you didn't know why I was mad"

 

I've got a funny story for you. I scrolled down to your one comment outside the quoted block. I assumed that was the only comment you had made. Fortunately, something distracted me for a minute. When I got back, I happened to glance at "my text" and noticed the distinction between light and heavy passive aggressive.

 

I didn't remember making that distinction. But I had posted late at night.

 

I started reading it. It's been a couple years, so I don't always remember exact specific instances. Some things are a blur. Also, sometimes I don't want to word things exactly as they happened on the internet so that I could be identified. So, even though I didn't match pasta to a specific experience I remembered, I had myself convinced that I must have written it myself and just didn't remember. That was part of what I experienced for a year. No ups and downs. Constantly that, and other forms of anger and hostility.

 

It was only when I got to pet passports that I knew someone else had written it. That's too specific and outside my experience.

 

My situation got to a point where [when she thought I was frustrated] it didn't matter what I did. If I was quiet, I was being passive aggressive. (Yes, she was constantly accusing me of being passive aggressive. I didn't dare accuse her.) If I talked, I was yelling. (I could point out at the time that I was not, in fact, yelling but would be told that I looked angry, so it was the same thing.) If I tried to work on something and made any noise at all, I was banging things around out of anger. (I could try to explain the noise, but only got an ice cold "look".)

 

I put "when she thought I was frustrated" in [] because I really did think she was triggering off me. The wisdom of the internet has me currently considering replacing the [] section with "when she, herself experienced strong negative emotions she couldn't deal with".

 

In the latest stages, everything became an absurd comedy. I'd get in trouble over something. By then I had learned I could get in trouble over anything. I started to be amused at how comically ridiculous it was. If there was any tension in my expression, it was me trying to restrain my amusement over the ridiculous reasons for her bitter hostility this time. She would accuse me of being frustrated. I was laughing on the inside. She couldn't be more wrong. Yet if the next thing I did was talk, I was yelling. If I was quite, I was being passive aggressive. If I worked on stuff, I was banging stuff around out of anger. Inside I was laughing, which if she knew, would have been far worse than any of those, so I didn't dare show it.

 

It didn't matter if I intellectually realized how far into the twilight zone we had stepped. It didn't matter if I was laughing on the inside at the comic absurdity. I was living in a hostile uncertain environment. As a consequence, my alarm bells were being re-wired to a constant "on" state.

 

It doesn't matter how healthy your body is. If you get shot, it's going to do damage.

 

We may think we're in control of our own mind and have a total understanding of the situation we're in, and that those 2 things will protect us. No. The truth is, it doesn't matter how in control of our own minds we are and how well we understand what's going on. If it's an emotionally damaging situation, it's still going to do emotional damage.

 

It turns out, an emotionally damaging environment does not need your intellectual agreement or permission to do what damage it does any more than a bullet needs to be a part of your plan for healthy living to effect your health.

 

...

 

Question. With light/heavy examples you gave, I picked up on 2 differences. Consequences and Directness of confrontation.

 

In the light example it was just an instance of passive aggressiveness with no lasting consequences beyond any other passive aggressive situation. In the light example he directly told you that you pretended. Low consequence, high direct confrontation.

 

In the Heavy example it was just back and forth scheduling, not following through, who's going to pick up the responsibility. You let him take the ball. He didn't run. You took a ball past the goal line. No one directly challenged or confronted. However, had his thing run the course, it sounds like (and I don't know the reasoning for this*) some kind of more serious consequences for the dogs. Low direct confrontation, high consequence.

 

*I don't see that the dogs would need to be in the pound or kennel or in any kind of mortal risk. I have a pet. If I had to leave town 3 days from now, I have no doubt that I could find a pet care facility with a good reputation to leave my pet with. I'm familiar with other pet owners, and know that they know places they have personally used, and reputations can be researched quickly on the internet.

 

So, I'm not understanding light vs. heavy. But I strongly identify with the light example to the extent that I entertained the possibility that I had written it late at night but didn't remember. I've been in stranger twilight zone situations.

 

 

.

Edited January 22, 2016 by testmeasure

[DevastatedDiva]

As terrified as you are, once you receive emotional AND SEXUAL love, the only thing you will think about is why you waited so long. Waiting for nothing is awful.

 

You are missing life. It is passing you by.

 

It is time to go.

 

 

Um the last thing I'm thinking about right now is letting anyone near me to give me emotional and sexual love. My marriage is ending and I'm scared and panicked in a strange country. That's my focus trying to find a way out of this.

[DevastatedDiva]

I've got a funny story for you. I scrolled down to your one comment outside the quoted block. I assumed that was the only comment you had made. Fortunately, something distracted me for a minute. When I got back, I happened to glance at "my text" and noticed the distinction between light and heavy passive aggressive

 

 

I put "when she thought I was frustrated" in [] because I really did think she was triggering off me. The wisdom of the internet has me currently considering replacing the [] section with "when she, herself experienced strong negative emotions she couldn't deal with".

 

In the latest stages, everything became an absurd comedy. I'd get in trouble over something. By then I had learned I could get in trouble over anything. I started to be amused at how comically ridiculous it was. If there was any tension in my expression, it was me trying to restrain my amusement over the ridiculous reasons for her bitter hostility this time. She would accuse me of being frustrated. I was laughing on the inside. She couldn't be more wrong. Yet if the next thing I did was talk, I was yelling. If I was quite, I was being passive aggressive. If I worked on stuff, I was banging stuff around out of anger. Inside I was laughing, which if she knew, would have been far worse than any of those, so I didn't dare show it.

 

It didn't matter if I intellectually realized how far into the twilight zone we had stepped. It didn't matter if I was laughing on the inside at the comic absurdity. I was living in a hostile uncertain environment. As a consequence, my alarm bells were being re-wired to a constant "on" state.

 

It doesn't matter how healthy your body is. If you get shot, it's going to do damage.

 

 

It turns out, an emotionally damaging environment does not need your intellectual agreement or permission to do what damage it does any more than a bullet needs to be a part of your plan for healthy living to effect your health.

 

...

 

Question. With light/heavy examples you gave, I picked up on 2 differences. Consequences and Directness of confrontation.

 

In the light example it was just an instance of passive aggressiveness with no lasting consequences beyond any other passive aggressive situation. In the light example he directly told you that you pretended. Low consequence, high direct confrontation.

 

In the Heavy example it was just back and forth scheduling, not following through, who's going to pick up the responsibility. You let him take the ball. He didn't run. You took a ball past the goal line. No one directly challenged or confronted. However, had his thing run the course, it sounds like (and I don't know the reasoning for this*) some kind of more serious consequences for the dogs. Low direct confrontation, high consequence.

 

*I don't see that the dogs would need to be in the pound or kennel or in any kind of mortal risk. I have a pet. If I had to leave town 3 days from now, I have no doubt that I could find a pet care facility with a good reputation to leave my pet with. I'm familiar with other pet owners, and know that they know places they have personally used, and reputations can be researched quickly on the internet.

 

So, I'm not understanding light vs. heavy. But I strongly identify with the light example to the extent that I entertained the possibility that I had written it late at night but didn't remember. I've been in stranger twilight zone situations.

 

 

.

 

 

Both are completely damaging, light maybe more

 

You get humiliated in front of others. You start to question your sanity. Are there more beans? You are marginalised and demeaned. You try not to talk. Then you start putting disclaimers on everything you say such as "I might not remember this completely correctly......"

 

Heavy: tasks don't get done even when you are told and promised they will be. You are assured right up until the last minute the task is in process or imminent. The task never happens. You have to do it all yourself anyway, and if you remind or ask after the task you are "nagging"

 

Leaving my dogs 12,000 miles away in a government confinement or having them destroyed while I moved to another country to be with my spouse WAS a VERY big deal.

 

Here is another. Spouse hates to get any phone calls ever. The good news is spouse has no friends but my very limited group and spouses phone rings about once a month with parental communication. Spouse especially hates calls at work. In the span of 5 years I had to call spouse approximately 20x every single time VM would immediately pick up, and I only called during emergencies. Spouse swore up and down the phone never rang. After 5 years and me being stranded on a highway for hours unable to get spouse to help I freaked. I dragged spouse to the phone store for a new phone. Phone was fine. Out of the 15 contacts in the phone I was the only one "accidentally" on divert to VM. "I have no idea how that happened."

 

Life sucks today

[MellyMel]

Both are completely damaging, light maybe more

 

You get humiliated in front of others. You start to question your sanity. Are there more beans? You are marginalised and demeaned. You try not to talk. Then you start putting disclaimers on everything you say such as "I might not remember this completely correctly......"

 

Heavy: tasks don't get done even when you are told and promised they will be. You are assured right up until the last minute the task is in process or imminent. The task never happens. You have to do it all yourself anyway, and if you remind or ask after the task you are "nagging"

 

 

 

Life sucks today

 

Your spouse sounds like mine. Mine loved to call me immature and a nag when I would call him out on being a hypocrite. When our marriage counsellor called him a narcissistic sociopath with emotional coping skills of an abandoned child, I was hoping that something would click. Nope. He's still in deep denial.

 

You feel like you've lost yourself, you have lost yourself because being constantly accommodating to someone - ho instead of acknowledging this continues to demean and make you feel like ****. You know how things should be. You are intelligent enough to know that this marriage doesn't feel right. This is not how things should be, but you've stayed hoping that he would change. Holding on to the investment that you've made. It's heartbreaking. I'm going through it.

 

Three years ago I started slowly admitting to myself that I didn't want to have children with this man. I couldn't bring children into the world with this person if every single time we argued he threatened to leave...would throw a temper tantrum, start throwing things or would lock himself in the washroom. Now I see that I was married to a toddler.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. They keep telling me that it gets better.

[testmeasure]

Both are completely damaging, light maybe more

 

You get humiliated in front of others. You start to question your sanity. Are there more beans? You are marginalised and demeaned. You try not to talk. Then you start putting disclaimers on everything you say such as "I might not remember this completely correctly......"

 

Heavy: tasks don't get done even when you are told and promised they will be. You are assured right up until the last minute the task is in process or imminent. The task never happens. You have to do it all yourself anyway, and if you remind or ask after the task you are "nagging"

 

Leaving my dogs 12,000 miles away in a government confinement or having them destroyed while I moved to another country to be with my spouse WAS a VERY big deal.

 

Here is another. Spouse hates to get any phone calls ever. The good news is spouse has no friends but my very limited group and spouses phone rings about once a month with parental communication. Spouse especially hates calls at work. In the span of 5 years I had to call spouse approximately 20x every single time VM would immediately pick up, and I only called during emergencies. Spouse swore up and down the phone never rang. After 5 years and me being stranded on a highway for hours unable to get spouse to help I freaked. I dragged spouse to the phone store for a new phone. Phone was fine. Out of the 15 contacts in the phone I was the only one "accidentally" on divert to VM. "I have no idea how that happened."

 

Life sucks today

 

I remember the disclaimers. I never lost confidence in my answer. But beyond some point, I realized I'd get in trouble for being confident about it. So I started throwing in the disclaimers and mentally saying to myself, ok I know what I think, lets' see what you're going to come up with this time. Actually having to disclaim stuff that I knew was true made it all the more real what level of garbage she was putting out. I thought all of that awareness protected me emotionally. It doesn't.

 

 

She was trying to make it appear as if I was the one not doing their tasks even when I was doing them. So, she made sure to be doing hers. So I didn't see failures to follow through on tasks. There were other levels on which she didn't keep her word, but I don't know if it would qualify as heavy. I was constantly trying to satisfy her with how I did household and child care tasks. I would think that I had reached an understanding or agreement that if I did these 3 steps exactly this way, then a particular thing had been done correctly. So, I'd do it exactly that way and she'd still find something wrong with it. It was like even once I had reached an understanding and agreement with her as to how something was to be done, it didn't mean anything. The same tasks, day after day, month after month, we'd go over and over. Each time I'd think we'd reached an agreement or understanding, only for her to still find something wrong. Her word on those matters was utterly worthless.

 

 

The phone thing didn't happen. I'm not sure why it reminds me of this, but there was one communication thing she had been doing that I hadn't noticed for months. One day the marriage counselor pointed out to me that she always had doorknob turners. I was like huh? The marriage counselor pointed out to me that she always threw out aggressive attacks against me in the last minutes of the session when there is no time to address it or respond to it. After that I began to notice that she was (and had been) doing the same thing while she was working and right before bed. Then if I tried to discuss them with her, I got in trouble for interfering with work or keeping her up late. It's not at all the same as not answering the phone, so I'm not sure what that makes me think of it.

 

 

I guess it is a passive aggressive way of weaponizing communication. Throw something negative on the table when communication is to be shut down. It's like stirring up trouble right before turning off your phone and then if they do manage to contact you to work it out, blaming them because they knew you didn't want to be disturbed because the phone was off. So, although no one's phone was literally off, any time "the phone" was metaphorically off in the sense that it was an inappropriate time for communication, she'd throw something negative on the table and then complain if I communicated.

Edited January 22, 2016 by testmeasure

[testmeasure]

Life sucks today

 

Oh, did the phone thing happened just today?

 

 

On the dogs, I saw passport and assumed vacation. I did realize the seriousness with which you were taking it, so I sidelined my confusion with an *. Faced with moving to a different country and leaving pets behind, your reaction makes total sense. That would be a much more serious situation. Besides what you thought of, if you ended up having to have them air transported, my understanding is there's a lot of risk to that too.

[DevastatedDiva]

Your spouse sounds like mine. Mine loved to call me immature and a nag when I would call him out on being a hypocrite. When our marriage counsellor called him a narcissistic sociopath with emotional coping skills of an abandoned child, I was hoping that something would click. Nope. He's still in deep denial.

 

You feel like you've lost yourself, you have lost yourself because being constantly accommodating to someone - ho instead of acknowledging this continues to demean and make you feel like ****. You know how things should be. You are intelligent enough to know that this marriage doesn't feel right. This is not how things should be, but you've stayed hoping that he would change. Holding on to the investment that you've made. It's heartbreaking. I'm going through it.

 

Three years ago I started slowly admitting to myself that I didn't want to have children with this man. I couldn't bring children into the world with this person if every single time we argued he threatened to leave...would throw a temper tantrum, start throwing things or would lock himself in the washroom. Now I see that I was married to a toddler.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this. They keep telling me that it gets better.

 

Thank you for writing back to me. This is exactly how I feel. Did you get divorced yet? I don't think I can go through this for 3 more years.

[DevastatedDiva]

This is kind of par for the course but after lighting me up my spouse has not done one thing to actually start a divorce.

 

Here's the shocker: my one family member is crazy. Actually as in has a cluster B. She is not only crazy but has a malevolent streak. Her happy place is when chaos and drama are swirling around her and she sets emotional disasters off and then enjoys sitting back to watch things explode. To combat this, I no longer speak to her. For years.

 

Example: at the funeral of someone who committed suicide she told their spouse "I only wish he'd done it sooner so you could have started over without a loser like him tied around your neck"

 

Shocker: I found out by accident yesterday that the insane family member and my spouse have been emailing each other. For a long time. About what!

 

How did I find out? The insane relative accidentally sent a text intended for spouse to the landline and I got a "text to phone" message on the house phone.

 

I went bombastic on spouse who said : she wrote me. I've just written back one liners. I forgot to tell you. It was an accident.

 

REALLY? An ACCIDENT? You have been in correspondence with my nutty family member and you FORGOT?

 

I'm so freaked out and betrayed and God knows what else. I've started to plan my escape back to America.

[DevastatedDiva]

I'm sorry I didn't come back sooner.

 

I as well felt very overwhelmed by divorce.

Cripplingly so.

It's okay. Baby steps.

 

It will come with acceptance.

 

Thank you for writing me back. I am paralysed myself and can't even comprehend how you felt with children.

[DevastatedDiva]

This is not acceptable. Living in the same location, same house, as someone who is a partner and the lack of sex for over a decade is proof of a serious issue. Now... if you were living apart and it were only a few months, that would be completely different. But it has been a decade and you have tried for years. In your shoes, I would leave and find someone who really respects you, really wants you above all others. And who SHOWS it to you. This guy isn't it.

 

 

 

With the lack of empathy thing and social norms I think you're thinking of sociopath. Very different. I have 2 sons who have been diagnosed with Asperger's - 19 and 21 years of age. They are both socially successful and not hindered in any way now, but raising them was a challenge sometimes.

 

Actually in 2005, the DSM-V replaced Asperger's as a diagnosis and it's now under the umbrella of "Autism Spectrum Disorder".

 

As an aside, my youngest son (the 19 year old) is a savant. When he was young we were astounded at his visual memory, and we tested it. We wrote down 12 random numerical digits on a piece of paper, showed it to him for about 15 seconds, and then turned it over and asked him to recite it. He recited them perfectly. Then we waited half an hour (not showing them to him again) and asked him to recite them backwards. He recited them perfectly.

 

I don't think your husband's mild Aspie diagnosis is responsible for what you are going through, OP. I think you should walk.

 

Aspie is bad enough but not the destructive force you are correct.

[Popsicle]

This is kind of par for the course but after lighting me up my spouse has not done one thing to actually start a divorce.

 

Here's the shocker: my one family member is crazy. Actually as in has a cluster B. She is not only crazy but has a malevolent streak. Her happy place is when chaos and drama are swirling around her and she sets emotional disasters off and then enjoys sitting back to watch things explode. To combat this, I no longer speak to her. For years.

 

Example: at the funeral of someone who committed suicide she told their spouse "I only wish he'd done it sooner so you could have started over without a loser like him tied around your neck"

 

Shocker: I found out by accident yesterday that the insane family member and my spouse have been emailing each other. For a long time. About what!

 

How did I find out? The insane relative accidentally sent a text intended for spouse to the landline and I got a "text to phone" message on the house phone.

 

I went bombastic on spouse who said : she wrote me. I've just written back one liners. I forgot to tell you. It was an accident.

 

REALLY? An ACCIDENT? You have been in correspondence with my nutty family member and you FORGOT?

 

I'm so freaked out and betrayed and God knows what else. I've started to plan my escape back to America.

 

I have a nutty family member like that too. I would be horrified if anyone close to me was in contact with them, and I don't blame you for having the line of thought you're having.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if your H does nothing.